Bismark palm newbie

[Brad Mondel]

Hi,i just got my first bismarkia nobilus the other day ,after a search for this palm for many years i finally found one for a price i could afford ,anyway have any of you tried to grow one in zone 8b? or 9a? please let me know your exsperience on my favorite palm please ......can you caompare it's hardiness to another palm? thanxx

[bgl]

Hi!

And welcome to the IPS PalmTalk Forum! I think the Bismarckia will be OK in your location, but I will let others address that issue!

Aloha from the Big Island of Hawaii!

Bo-Göran

[sonoranfans]

Hi,i just got my first bismarkia nobilus the other day ,after a search for this palm for many years i finally found one for a price i could afford ,anyway have any of you tried to grow one in zone 8b? or 9a? please let me know your exsperience on my favorite palm please ......can you caompare it's hardiness to another palm? thanxx

I think Bismarckias will need winter protection in myrtle beach SC, ask some of the N. Floridians.

[MattyB]

You can compare hardiness to other palms by looking at Palmpedia's Survivability Index. Here's a link the the zone with Bizzy in it.

Palmpedia

[Brad Mondel]

hmm so many opinions ....... thanx for the welcome! i just lerned about this site yesterday .

You can compare hardiness to other palms by looking at Palmpedia's Survivability Index. Here's a link the the zone with Bizzy in it.

Palmpedia

[Brad Mondel]

idonno how to upload apic /attach it

[Laaz]

A Bismarckia has no chance in Myrtle beach without major protection. I have tried a few here in Charleston & they never make it.

[Brad Mondel]

What if it's on a southern wall with an overhang? how big were the ones you tried?

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Welcome to the forum ArchA! If you wanna grow that Bizzy up there in Myrtle, you go right ahead... I think you may need some serious winter protection, but go for it! If you really want to push zones, you might learn a few things from one palm lover in Long Island, NY... Check out this thread!

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...ic=1618&hl=

[Brad Mondel]

WOW!! that dude is determined!! and everyone called me nuts for havin palmetto in zone 6b but i did move south lol its much better here(8bish) i think it will do fine if i plant it on south wall with protecton in winter(poly plastic? ) and when it gets big it will probrobly be hardy enough to withstand the outdoors on it's own.......(in 7 years) lol .......anyway if its as hardy as pheonix roebelini it will do fine because they come back as if a perrenial if planted under an evergreen tree ,yet with protection would stay green.........im thinking of trying a queen too ,may have to rap in burlap but it wood be worth it cause they grow so fast!......................this guy said it was a green bismark ...do you agree? teach me how to post pix first hahaha

[gsn]

Arch,

Unfortunately it is my understanding that the green form of Bismarkia is considerably less cold tolerate than the silver.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news ,since even the silver is borderline in your climate to begin with!

[Jonathan]

....teach me how to post pix first hahaha

Try this link.

[Brad Mondel]

here he is let me know what you think i will post a better pic wen i move and have it out in sun in my new yard(clean slate!!) i think it will turn bluer if its in full sun let me know what you think!

[Laaz]

Both palms I tried were 15 gal. Both got bud rot and were wrapped but no additional heat. Our low was 23 F this year and 24 F last year.

[Brad Mondel]

did you have them at the southern wall as well?

Both palms I tried were 15 gal. Both got bud rot and were wrapped but no additional heat. Our low was 23 F this year and 24 F last year.

[Mark Heath]

I'm sorry to tell you but the southern wall is'nt going to help much. Here in Orlando the green Bizmark is

doubtfull, let alone were you live!

I will say though seeing that you allready have the palm, you will need to learn some techniques as far as protecting

your baby!! We all here push the zones, so many people here can give you good advise!

I can help you too but that would take a bit of detail! If you like, PM me and i'll tell you how to protect your Bizzie, but it's gonna take some work!

Good luck,

Mark

[Laaz]

did you have them at the southern wall as well?

You can not place a Bizzy very close to a wall. These palms will get massive. Before you plant one of these palms right up against a wall do a bit of research.

[Brad Mondel]

i thought u said it wood die?

did you have them at the southern wall as well?

You can not place a Bizzy very close to a wall. These palms will get massive. Before you plant one of these palms right up against a wall do a bit of research.

[Laaz]

i thought u said it wood die?

Have it your way... Lets see how long it lasts.

This was my last Bizzy, photo taken last Nov. By March it was dead from Bud rot and yes it was wrapped with burlap from Dec - Mar.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Laaz

[gsn]

i thought u said it wood die?

Have it your way... Lets see how long it lasts.

This was my last Bizzy, photo taken last Nov. By March it was dead from Bud rot and yes it was wrapped with burlap from Dec - Mar.

I agree that the the long term prospects for this palm in South Carolina are dim.

You might be able to protect it when small,but if you manage that, eventually this palm will get much to large to protect durning the long winter.

Just a thought on protection, one CAN NOT wrap a palm in November and leave that wrap in place until March.

It would surely rot, cold damp wrap ,and on warmer days warm/hot soggy wrap.

The only way this would work is if you wrapped it durning each cold night event, then removed the wrap durning the day after warm -up. This would need to be done durning each cold spell, leaving the palm open so it can breath and air out durning warmer spells.

Just my 2 cents

[Laaz]

Hi Scott. The trunk was wrapped with burlap and then a wrap of plastic to keep it dry. The burlap never got damp. This was the second one I tried. The first one was covered with a plastic tent encloser and still rotted in the crown. I think the problem here in the southeast is the humidity combined with the cold in the winter. I'm sure if I built a enclosure & used a heat source it would work until it quickly out grew the enclosure.

[Brad Mondel]

how did your dioon cycads and your citrus do ? it looks great ,sorry about your bizzie ,i may not chance it but if i do i'll let you know how it goes thanxx for your advise:)

Hi Scott. The trunk was wrapped with burlap and then a wrap of plastic to keep it dry. The burlap never got damp. This was the second one I tried. The first one was covered with a plastic tent encloser and still rotted in the crown. I think the problem here in the southeast is the humidity combined with the cold in the winter. I'm sure if I built a enclosure & used a heat source it would work until it quickly out grew the enclosure.

[Mark Heath]

Hi Scott. The trunk was wrapped with burlap and then a wrap of plastic to keep it dry. The burlap never got damp. This was the second one I tried. The first one was covered with a plastic tent encloser and still rotted in the crown. I think the problem here in the southeast is the humidity combined with the cold in the winter. I'm sure if I built a enclosure & used a heat source it would work until it quickly out grew the enclosure.

Never use plastic, it actually intensifies the cold. Laaz, give another a try but this time use a evergreen canopy for protection, not plastic. Wrapping w/ burlap is good but Scott gave good advise a cpl of threads up!

[JayW]

Mine after a 24* morning here in Central Florida. It may have even been colder, but the thermometer was on a block wall between 2 block buildings! 17 miles up the road, in Polk City, there low was 19*!

Some of the leaves have already been trimmed off and there is new growth. I'm hoping next year is warmer! Oh yeah, it was unprotected.

[Brad Mondel]

what sort of things do you grow in your zone?(palms)

Mine after a 24* morning here in Central Florida. It may have even been colder, but the thermometer was on a block wall between 2 block buildings! 17 miles up the road, in Polk City, there low was 19*!

Some of the leaves have already been trimmed off and there is new growth. I'm hoping next year is warmer! Oh yeah, it was unprotected.

[Brad Mondel]

the palm is doing great i love the blue palms like this morrocon palm

[mnorell]

My experience here in downtown Natchez (zone 9a, rather similar to Savannah, see my signature for my garden's specifics) is that my 6-7' silver Bismarckia does just fine through "typical" winters though it gets varying amounts of tip or edge-burn when temps go below 24/25 or so in a 15-hour freeze (typically we get one or perhaps two of these per year).

Mine was a good-sized 10-gallon HD specimen in October 2006 and it's been in the ground through three winters in a spot that is a bit wind-sheltered but has open sky directly overhead. Perhaps not enough sun for maximum growth but I traded that for some natural protection. It's in a raised bed to prevent waterlogging and each fall I just mound soil a little bit around the base to give a little extra warmth to the bud. I have never provided any kind of wrap or other protection. Usually two or three of its leaves will show some amount of cosmetic damage while the others are unscathed. Temps here have hit ultimate lows of 22.8-24.1 since planting and each year it seems to behave differently based perhaps on duration/wetness rather than the actual low temperature. The bud remains quite resilient though and growth starts about April. I remove the most-damaged leaves as the spring goes on, trying to retain a minimum crown of 4-5 leaves or so if possible as it starts back into growth. It has done quite well so far but I have no illusions as to its permanence in this climate. I planted it in front of a small Sabal causiarum as a temporary filler and it has surprised me by thriving. Now the Sabal is as high as the Bismarckia so if the Bizzie goes I'll not be devastated, but I will probably replace it with another just because it's such a beautiful "temporary" palm and has performed much better than I imagined.

It looks like your average winter nighttime temps may be about 5-8F lower than what I have here, but if your proximity to the ocean and/or urban heat-island means you can keep a 9a minimum...bump up winter temps with a warm south or southwest-facing position in a raised bed and try to keep excessive frost and dessicating north winds off of it...if you have a genetically stronger individual (this species appears to have tremendous variability) it may just last longer than you think!

In terms of other means of protection, talk to Alex Woollcott in Atlanta, he has grown a Bizzie there successfully for several years, but I'm not sure how it did in this year's 12F(!) there.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here in Jacksonville, FL I am pushing the zone with the silver Bizzy. This past winter I didn't protect and temps fell below freezing at least 4 times in my neighborhood. There was really heavy frost at least one morning too and it has no overhead frost protection. My Bizzie lost about 1/3-1/2 of its foliage but growth resumed quickly and I have one or two new fronds already. I don't think it'll take much more cold than we had this year but I never thought it'd be a long-term plant. If it turns out to be adequately hardy, I'm going to have a huge problem because these things easily get 20' across and I don't have that much space. I planted it a couple years ago from a 25 gallon pot. I say plant it, protect as well as you can, enjoy it, then replace it when it dies. Don't plant it too close to that south wall, however. The trunks get real fat so if it makes it a few years it'll need some space to spread its wings.

[Brad Mondel]

Thank you guys for the help it does seem it is only temporary here but i could enjoy it during that temporarty time and if it was to thrive who knows it could do great ,i really dont know till i try but i can try it and see how everything goes ,if its as hardy as the chinese fan palm it should do great and long term because there is many of those here that are BIG ,anyway i can keep ou posted on my new "exsperiment" wish me luck! your friend AA

Here in Jacksonville, FL I am pushing the zone with the silver Bizzy. This past winter I didn't protect and temps fell below freezing at least 4 times in my neighborhood. There was really heavy frost at least one morning too and it has no overhead frost protection. My Bizzie lost about 1/3-1/2 of its foliage but growth resumed quickly and I have one or two new fronds already. I don't think it'll take much more cold than we had this year but I never thought it'd be a long-term plant. If it turns out to be adequately hardy, I'm going to have a huge problem because these things easily get 20' across and I don't have that much space. I planted it a couple years ago from a 25 gallon pot. I say plant it, protect as well as you can, enjoy it, then replace it when it dies. Don't plant it too close to that south wall, however. The trunks get real fat so if it makes it a few years it'll need some space to spread its wings.

[sonoranfans]

My experience here in downtown Natchez (zone 9a, rather similar to Savannah, see my signature for my garden's specifics) is that my 6-7' silver Bismarckia does just fine through "typical" winters though it gets varying amounts of tip or edge-burn when temps go below 24/25 or so in a 15-hour freeze (typically we get one or perhaps two of these per year).

Mine was a good-sized 10-gallon HD specimen in October 2006 and it's been in the ground through three winters in a spot that is a bit wind-sheltered but has open sky directly overhead. Perhaps not enough sun for maximum growth but I traded that for some natural protection. It's in a raised bed to prevent waterlogging and each fall I just mound soil a little bit around the base to give a little extra warmth to the bud. I have never provided any kind of wrap or other protection. Usually two or three of its leaves will show some amount of cosmetic damage while the others are unscathed. Temps here have hit ultimate lows of 22.8-24.1 since planting and each year it seems to behave differently based perhaps on duration/wetness rather than the actual low temperature. The bud remains quite resilient though and growth starts about April. I remove the most-damaged leaves as the spring goes on, trying to retain a minimum crown of 4-5 leaves or so if possible as it starts back into growth. It has done quite well so far but I have no illusions as to its permanence in this climate. I planted it in front of a small Sabal causiarum as a temporary filler and it has surprised me by thriving. Now the Sabal is as high as the Bismarckia so if the Bizzie goes I'll not be devastated, but I will probably replace it with another just because it's such a beautiful "temporary" palm and has performed much better than I imagined.

It looks like your average winter nighttime temps may be about 5-8F lower than what I have here, but if your proximity to the ocean and/or urban heat-island means you can keep a 9a minimum...bump up winter temps with a warm south or southwest-facing position in a raised bed and try to keep excessive frost and dessicating north winds off of it...if you have a genetically stronger individual (this species appears to have tremendous variability) it may just last longer than you think!

In terms of other means of protection, talk to Alex Woollcott in Atlanta, he has grown a Bizzie there successfully for several years, but I'm not sure how it did in this year's 12F(!) there.

I think you have a great approach to stretching the zone with respect to the bizzie. Some overhead protection can really help, and planting it high keeps the roots drier in winter. Bizzies dont like water in the cold, makes the roots too wet. I had one perish in '07, and it was in a wet area(more frequent automatic irrigation for plants). I have learned from that experience: dont plant anything that needs frequent irrigation near a bizzie, it hurts the winter cold tolerance. Planting high is one way to protect against that excessive winter moisture. My 2 other bizzies -planted away from "wet areas"- have seen 20F in '07 unprotected and were defolliated except the spears, but came all the way back. Since then, they have only seen 27F once, and probably 8-9 other freezes@ 30-32F. They are growing quite rapidly now in the heat. Out here, our low temps arent as prolonged and the increased winter sun(no clouds) means higher soil temps, which is probably also a factor. the bizzie has a large, deep underground root system. Some bizzies that have been cut off to near the ground level after total freeze burn, and came back.

check out this thread here on palmtalk:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...=40#entry147421

Keeping the ground warm could also be a way of extending zones on established bismarckias.

One thing I know of might help in stretching your zone in the case of a unusual cold temp drop. You can use thermacare back wraps, they heat very nicely for 8-10 hours based on a thermal reaction. They are used for sore backs and have a velcro attach mechanism. If I wanted to provide the max protection on a really cold night, I would put 3 of them around the bud area, and wrap it in a space blanket. It wont stop foilage damage, but will add protection to the bud, much more protection than christmas lights, thats for sure.

[Moose]

AA - this is what a greenish Bismarkia noblis looks like in a more favorable climate. It was planted in 1997 as a three gallon in my

yard. She has been producing non-viable seed for years, no husband in the neiborhood.

Best regards, Ron.

[Brad Mondel]

have you guys tried to put black weed preventer around the trunk to trap heat inside the ground and refleck heat towards the tree? you know like the black tarp,it keeps excessive moisture out too but ive never tried it on a palm . Thank you guys for the fotos and info! keep a coming!

[Cristóbal]

the palm is doing great i love the blue palms like this morrocon palm

i am sorry i think you have big problems with this bismarckia. it is green one, not blue - silver ! i check the climate of myrtle beach south carolina it can be there very very cold ! and also i see is very cool in the winter high temperature average 59 F and low 39 F.

but always do experiments ! in this way we learn !

if you like the blue palms maybe try the brahea armata ? this palm can be very blue like the bismarckia ! it is desert palm (from my state in méxico), for this is more resistant for the cold then the bismarckia. palms from the desert areas are not fragiles most are good with cold and no water.

some persons in florida grow the brahea armata, for this i think it is ok with humiditey and rain in your area in south east united states. i am sure some persons in florida can give to you informations how to grow the brahea armata if want to try grow it.

here is more informations and fotos of brahea armata for you -

brahea armata

cristóbal

Edited May 29, 2009 by Cristóbal

[Brad Mondel]

id love to grow brahea armata yet ive never seen them for sale in my entire life and i dont order online ,i wish i could find one does anybody know where you can get one?(reasonable)

the palm is doing great i love the blue palms like this morrocon palm

i am sorry i think you have big problems with this bismarckia. it is green one, not blue - silver ! i check the climate of myrtle beach south carolina it can be there very very cold ! and also i see is very cool in the winter high temperature average 59 F and low 39 F.

but always do experiments ! in this way we learn !

if you like the blue palms maybe try the brahea armata ? this palm can be very blue like the bismarckia ! it is desert palm (from my state in méxico), for this is more resistant for the cold then the bismarckia. palms from the desert areas are not fragiles most are good with cold and no water.

some persons in florida grow the brahea armata, for this i think it is ok with humiditey and rain in your area in south east united states. i am sure some persons in florida can give to you informations how to grow the brahea armata if want to try grow it.

here is more informations and fotos of brahea armata for you -

brahea armata

cristóbal

Edited May 30, 2009 by ArchAngeL01

[Brad Mondel]

id love to grow brahea armata yet ive never seen them for sale in my entire life and i dont order online ,i wish i could find one does anybody know where you can get one?(reasonable)

the palm is doing great i love the blue palms like this morrocon palm

i am sorry i think you have big problems with this bismarckia. it is green one, not blue - silver ! i check the climate of myrtle beach south carolina it can be there very very cold ! and also i see is very cool in the winter high temperature average 59 F and low 39 F.

but always do experiments ! in this way we learn !

if you like the blue palms maybe try the brahea armata ? this palm can be very blue like the bismarckia ! it is desert palm (from my state in méxico), for this is more resistant for the cold then the bismarckia. palms from the desert areas are not fragiles most are good with cold and no water.

some persons in florida grow the brahea armata, for this i think it is ok with humiditey and rain in your area in south east united states. i am sure some persons in florida can give to you informations how to grow the brahea armata if want to try grow it.

here is more informations and fotos of brahea armata for you -

brahea armata

cristóbal

[Brad Mondel]

The bizzie is a silver form,it will be silver again when i grow it in sun ,its ben growing in shade and thus made it greener but there is plenty silver on the stems and powder on the leaves ,ill show you when the new spears unfold out in sun wish me luck yall

[Sabal Steve]

I've been collecting palms for a number of years now. I probably have 20 specimens, but the Bismarkia is the only palm that I have 2 of. They're simply enchanting.