Unarmed Med Fan Palms

[buffy]

I have a palm that I bought from David Glover at Tejas Tropicals as Trachy sp. We're both a little curious about it.

At first glance, it looks to be an extremely unarmed Med Fan Palm. The hastula detail looks non-descript and a little cock-eyed like I see in the Meds in my collection. The leaf is thicker like a Chamerops. And it also suckers. That said, it's way too small to be a 3.5 year old Med. Fan Palm. This thing is almost completely unarmed, similar to the armament of the Trachys. It looks very similar to the pictures posted by Tobias Spanner. So I either have a unarmed Chamerops or a suckering T. nanus. Any thoughts?

[The Germinator]

More Pics Buff?

[buffy]

Well, I could put more photos up, but I assure you, the leaves aren't gonna tell you jack. The habit is very much like the T. nanus with the leaves laying out in the horizontal plane. The picture shows the lack of armament, the hastula and the base of the palm. Notice how tiny this thing looks. Remember, this thing is 3.5 to 4 years old. The armament couldn't bite skin if it had too.

I'm surprised more people wouldn't be intrigued by the possibility of a dwarf clumping Trachycarpus. David had four of these, so its not like this is an errant palm. All four share the same characteristics, and he received these as T. nanus. The only Med Fan Palms he's germinated were cerifera. These palms are defintely NOT cerifera.

A simply question to ask is "Does anybody have a Med Fan Palm without armament"? I don't.

[ghar41]

For years we have been reading and hearing (at least on the West Coast anyway) about Chamaerops humilis var "vulcano." It is claimed to be to Chamaerops what Wagnerianus is to Trachycarpus...smaller in stature, with compact, less divided leaves....and fewer thorns on the petioles.

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Chamaerops/vulcano.html

My "vulcano" plants are still in the strap leaf stage...so I cant tell you more on a firsthand basis.

Can you post more pictures of your plant?

[Kris]

Dear Friends

Here is a still of our valcano which is around 1 year old...but i have not examined this palm for it spines,etc...The seeds were from Italy.

More updates of it later !

Lots of love,

Kris

[PalmatierMeg]

I have a C. humilis volcano seedling I planted in the ground last fall. These are photos I took in Feb. It is doing very well despite its size but is still in strap leaf stage.

[ghar41]

Oh, and one other palm variant to consider is Trachycarpus takiguii...a sometimes found type of Trachycarpus found among populations of Trachycarpus wagnerianus. Mine is at least 6 years old and is just 6 or 7 inches tall, the leaves 3 or 4 inches.

http://www.palmsnc.org/pages/palm_detail.php?id=118

[PalmGuyWC]

Glenn,

Several years ago I purchased a couple of T. takaguii from Jungle Music. As they grew they looked just like T. fortunei to me, and I almost dug them up because they were taking up prime real estate. As they grew I realized they were something a little different with narrow leaf blades and some of the blades were cut right to the apex of the frond. They are also somewhat glaucious on the underside, and as they grew the fronds grow in almost a 360 degree circle. They look nothing like the one you have pictured. I would say yours looks most like a juvinile T. wagnerianus. T. wagnerianus can grow very slowly when they are small, but then they really speed up with some size.

I would guess T. takaguii is just another form of T. fortunei, or at least the ones I have look like that.

Dick

[buffy]

I'm convinced that this thing is just plain ole Chamerops humilis. It may by a dwarfed down version of it, but two things are telling. The leaf is thicker than any Trachy I've seen and the hastula is identical to what I see in Chamerops (which is markedly different than I see in the three other species of Trachy I have). Finally, its clumping. I've compared this thing to the suckers coming out of my cerifera. The young petioles have small armament on the cerifera sucker. They're certainly different (black), but there's definitely a reduction in size. I'll have to watch this young'n over the next few years. Also, its not vulcano. Regardless, my curiosity does not allow me to discard new friends. I'll let you guys know over the next couple of years what this turns into.

[ricky]

hi Buffy if the seeds where originally bought as trachycarpus nanus i think its more than likely guihaia argyrata for some reason every so often it gets sold as trachycarpus sp hope this helps and here's a link to pacsoa http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Guihaia/argyrata.html

and just to let you guys know trachycarpus takagii is just the trade name of a Trachycarpus wagnerianus X fortunei cross and as most of you have noticed they tend to look just like a normal tracky fortunei

ricky

[buffy]

hi Buffy if the seeds where originally bought as trachycarpus nanus i think its more than likely guihaia argyrata for some reason every so often it gets sold as trachycarpus sp hope this helps and here's a link to pacsoa http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Guihaia/argyrata.html and just to let you guys know trachycarpus takagii is just the trade name of a Trachycarpus wagnerianus X fortunei cross and as most of you have noticed they tend to look just like a normal tracky fortunei ricky

Very interesting suggestion; however, a few things negate the possibility. My little palm has induplicate leaves like a Chame and Trachy, the underside of the leaves are the same color as the tops, and finally, no basal spines of any form.

I'm gonna watch this thing grow for awhile to see what happens, but right now, it looks like a little Chame.

[buffy]

I'm surprisingly dense at times. This should have been an easy one.

Serenoa repens (green form) - Case Closed

[FRITO]

im not convinced that you have S. repens.....

it isnt called the 'saw palmetto' because its not armed

can we get some shots of the overall palm

Edited July 30, 2009 by FRITO

[Patrick]

Glen,

It was suprising to see the pictures you posted of your Trachy. I have one that looks JUST like this that I actually got from you at a palm auction about 3 years ago. IT was labled T. wag, but has grown so slow, and had such different looking leaves, that I thought maybe it was some sort of mutant or something- Kind of like the mutant Chamaerops at Dicks house, only not quite as severe on the leaf abnormality. It has been in a pot so is naturally a wee bit smaller than your in-ground specimen, but looks incrediblly similar none the less, to what you have pictured above. It will be interesting to see what we end up with!

Buffy, I agree with Luke in that I'm not so sure that the thing is S. repens as well. The Serenoas that I have don't seem to be so upright with the oldest parts. But I'm just shooting from the hip on this one- just my findings so far.

[Patrick]

Sorry for the semi- hijacking! If you put up the "thread hijacked" emoticon, I don't blame you- shame on me!

Here's a pic of that Trachycarpus I was talking about. The newest emerging leaf looks to be somewhat normal, but there's no way to tell until it really opens up.

[Tomsky]

I have what I have always considered to be an unusual form of Chamaerops humilis. The petiole spines are very faint. It has soft light green leaves with silver undersides. Some of the leaf segments are fused. The trunk is hairy. During the hot weather, some of the older leaves get sunburned, like Trachycarpus. In fact. it looks like a clumping Trachycarpus.

Last week, Patrick's initial reaction was that he thought it might be Serenoa repens. (When I was in Florida years ago, I went to several nurseries looking for Serenoa. They all told me to just go to the woods and dig one up.)

Below is a photo of the plant.

Jack

[Tomsky]

Here's a closeup of the leaves.

Jack