Jubaea History In California

[swamptreenelly]

I received a tremendously helpful email from Thomas A. Brown. It seems to answer all the questions I had about Jubaea and Ph. canariensis introduction in California. I'd hate for you to waste time covering the same ground, so I copy the four paragraphs below:

In California, the first mention of Jubaea I have is Sexton's nursery in Santa Barbara, offered in 1877. This is followed by one specimen on the Univ. of California campus at Berkeley, planted ca. 1877 (pretty near the northern limit of its range), and by two large specimens at the Charles Shinn home in Niles, planted in 1878, as already related to you by Mr Nelson Kirk. These 3 examples still exist. The earliest catalogue of John Rock (né Johan Fels) in San José that I have seen is 1873. Shinn was a horticultural writer of note in Northern California, and maintained a large trial garden. As he sometimes sold plants, he is sometimes listed as a nurseryman.

Roeding, who owned the Fancher Creek Nursery in Fresno, around 1884 went into partnership with John Rock and R. D. Fox, both of San José, to form the California Nursery Company, moving the San José operations to Niles where land was cheaper and water was available from the creek in Niles Canyon. This nursery lasted until the 1980s when it was sold for housing developments. The original adobe office and a few plants around it were retained, however. Roeding offered Jubaea chilensis in Fresno in 1886. John Sievers offered it in San Francisco the same year, and Kinton Stevens offered it in Santa Barbara in 1891.

Phoenix canariensis was listed among the plants of Woodward's Gardens in San Francisco in 1874, and the nurserymen Miller & Sievers offered it in their nursery just across the street the same year. Woodward's Gardens was a sort of early Disneyland. Woodward had opened his private art gallery to the public during the Civil War as a fundraiser for wounded veterans. As only so many people could be accommodated in the gallery at any one time, the overflow was allowed to roam the gardens. This led to Woodward moving to Napa County, and making the San Francisco place a place of amusement for an admission fee. The conservatory was kept stocked with rare cacti and succulents, a pond with small boats for children to ride in was added, and a menagerie was later added in an adjacent block, reached by a tunnel under the street. Miller and Sievers offered for sale most of the same plants, so there must have been some arrangement. They later split, each having his own nursery.

I have not been able to find all the catalogues of all the nurserymen in the state (there were 400 before 1900!) but Phoenix canariensis seems to have had a spurt of popularity starting around 1882, being offered by John Rock in San José, by Edward Gill in Oakland in 1889, Kinton Stevens in Santa Barbara in 1891, Toichi Domoto in Oakland in 1893, the California Nursery Co. in Niles the same year, Roeding in Frresno in 1896 and Theodora Burr Shepherd in Ventura, also in 1896. With us it grows at a fairly reliable rate of 6 inches of brown trunk a year. It has been extensively planted all over California.

cheers,

Scott

[iamjv]

Interesting history on two of my favorite palms!!! Thanks a lot!!! It would be neat if someone could take pics of those original three jubs and post them with this thread.... certainly someone has to be near them out there. Thanks again for the info. JV

[DoomsDave]

Berserkely ain' no where NEAR the northern limit of Jube's range, trust me. The Cult of Grass Valley demonstrated to a TEE . . .

[swamptreenelly]

These two Jubaeas can see off 880 in SAn Jose, this is the area where John Rock and Richard Fox had their Nurseries in 1865-1884 before moving there operations to Niles in 1884. Image taken by Ray Laub

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/s...nt=bigpalms.jpg

Here are the two Jubaeas planted in 1878 at the Shinn Arboretum in Fremont, Ca. Image taken by Hugh Danaher. The one on the right is a California State Champ on the Big Tree Register.

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/s...hinn_House2.jpg

Moving Phoenix palms at the California Nursery Company.

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/s...atalogwagon.jpg

[swamptreenelly]

Gary Woods Jubaea in Fallbrook was planted in 1975 from seed that he collected from Rock's San Jose Nursery seen in first image above. Gary says he can't keep Jubaeas in stock after custermers see his Jubaea.

[JasonD]

The UC Berkeley tree is not so impressive. It's in an obscure area of campus, growing with a bit of shade. Hard to photograph well.

I wonder about the history of this tree. It was first recorded in the Golden Gate Park records around 1924:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericinsf/616998558/

It's the best one I've ever seen. The previous report for the park was 1912, so it was probably planted between 1912 and 1924.

Interesting history on two of my favorite palms!!! Thanks a lot!!! It would be neat if someone could take pics of those original three jubs and post them with this thread.... certainly someone has to be near them out there. Thanks again for the info. JV

[BS Man about Palms]

Gary Woods Jubaea in Fallbrook was planted in 1975 from seed that he collected from Rock's San Jose Nursery seen in first image above. Gary says he can't keep Jubaeas in stock after custermers see his Jubaea.

I've heard Gary speak of these. Its good to see them finally. Thanks!!

[The Germinator]

These two Jubaeas can see off 880 in SAn Jose, this is the area where John Rock and Richard Fox had their Nurseries in 1865-1884 before moving there operations to Niles in 1884. Image taken by Ray Laub

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/s...nt=bigpalms.jpg

Here are the two Jubaeas planted in 1878 at the Shinn Arboretum in Fremont, Ca. Image taken by Hugh Danaher. The one on the right is a California State Champ on the Big Tree Register.

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/s...hinn_House2.jpg

Moving Phoenix palms at the California Nursery Company.

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/s...atalogwagon.jpg

There is one of similar size down in Pasadena over on the old side of town near the Wrigley Mansion.

[iamjv]

Thanks for the pics guys.... good looking palms! Jv

[Perito]

Jason, that Jubaea in Golden Gate Park looks like it may be octostichous like the one I posted a photo of in an earlier thread and I've used as my avatar. The leaves have turned sideways and lined up in eight neat rows - Perry

[PalmGuyWC]

It seems that Jubaeas are few and far between in N. Calif. Patrick Schafer estimates there may be about 100 growing between Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz. How many of you palm nuts in N. Calif. have one planted in the ground?

Dick

[happ]

Does Woodward's Gardens still exist? Unlikely, huh? Did any of those palms survive the 1906 earthquake\ fire?

Thanks for the great article

[iamjv]

Here is a nice trio of Jubs in some obsecure asian park near Mountainview (near San Jose). Happen to find the park on a business trip a few yrs back. Jv

[John Case]

It seems that Jubaeas are few and far between in N. Calif. Patrick Schafer estimates there may be about 100 growing between Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz. How many of you palm nuts in N. Calif. have one planted in the ground?

Dick

And mine is 10 inches tall, too! Want a photo?

[PalmGuyWC]

John,

If it's 10," growing in the ground, then it counts. It seems they are readily available in Calif., so there should be a lot of them being planted. They do present a problem with limited garden space but they are ideal for public parks such as the ones growing in San Diego. I wish we had a mass planting of them some where in N. Calif. I think Nelson in Freemont/Newark has planted a lot in some public areas, but I haven't seen them yet. They seem to adapt to any climate zone in N. Calif., from San Francisco to Sacramento. There used to be some on the Capitol grounds in Sacramento, and I guess they are still there.

Dick

[JasonD]

Woodward's Gardens' site is occupied by freeway and a semi-industrial block in which an excellent restaurant operates, called Woodward's Garden:

http://www.woodwardsgarden.com/

Does Woodward's Gardens still exist? Unlikely, huh? Did any of those palms survive the 1906 earthquake\ fire?

Thanks for the great article

[JasonD]

As a retail nurseryman, I have to say they're not easy to sell. Expensive, ugly in a 5-gallon, and slow. However, every time I'm talking to a customer with some land I promote them. We do better with 15-gal and 24in, because they're dense, dark-green and glossy, but the cost can be prohibitive for most people. I may have bought more 5gs as gifts myself than I've sold.

I planted a trio of 1g at my cousins' ranch on the Sonoma County coast near Fort Ross, and they sat frozen for a couple of years before they found their water. Now they're accelerating and looking happier. It's like planting an oak tree, and equally worthy.

We planted a 30in here at Flora Grubb Gardens. I've planted one at a customer's in Atherton. I've helped get a dense grove planted at the SF Botanical Garden.

-Jason

John,

If it's 10," growing in the ground, then it counts. It seems they are readily available in Calif., so there should be a lot of them being planted. They do present a problem with limited garden space but they are ideal for public parks such as the ones growing in San Diego. I wish we had a mass planting of them some where in N. Calif. I think Nelson in Freemont/Newark has planted a lot in some public areas, but I haven't seen them yet. They seem to adapt to any climate zone in N. Calif., from San Francisco to Sacramento. There used to be some on the Capitol grounds in Sacramento, and I guess they are still there.

Dick

Edited April 22, 2009 by JasonD

[JasonD]

Great pics! Those crowns look like hybrids. Trunks look pretty darn thick, though. Any memory of the park's name?

Here is a nice trio of Jubs in some obsecure asian park near Mountainview (near San Jose). Happen to find the park on a business trip a few yrs back. Jv

[JasonD]

Yeah, the pinwheel effect is very distinct on that one and really adds to the beauty. Not so distinct as the one in the photo you posted.

Jason, that Jubaea in Golden Gate Park looks like it may be octostichous like the one I posted a photo of in an earlier thread and I've used as my avatar. The leaves have turned sideways and lined up in eight neat rows - Perry

[Morabeza]

As a retail nurseryman, I have to say they're not easy to sell. Expensive, ugly in a 5-gallon, and slow. However, every time I'm talking to a customer with some land I promote them. We do better with 15-gal and 24in, because they're dense, dark-green and glossy, but the cost can be prohibitive for most people.

I must agree with my friend Jason. As a landscape designer in southern California I found that they are a difficult sell, even in large-scale and even large budget plantings. Either most people haven't seen how magnificent a Jubaea can be and/or they feel they can't justify spending so much on a palm that is much more expensive for its size in comparison with more recognisable and less expensive palms such as Phoenix canariensis, etc...

I tried many times to incorporate them into jobs and thankfully did have at least one victory! I got a nice full 24" box planted in a front yard of a hill top property in Chino Hills. Hopefully in 20 years time it will be something of a beacon / landmark atop that hill and inspire more local interest and (in my dreams of course) more demand for Jubaea among non-fully-fledged palm addicts in that region of inland southern California. He was a bit of a 'dream' client who also allowed planting of Chambeyronia macrocarpa, Ravenea glauca, Phoenix roebelenii (suckering Laos form), Roystonea regia and Arenga engleri.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the Mount San Antonio Community College in Walnut, California has a Jubaea on the upper part of campus. It has at least 3m of clean trunk and the leaves are all very upright. They also have some three-storey tall Howea forsteriana growing on another part of campus. And of course because of the legendary professor and nurseryman Dave Lannom, there are now many Caryota gigas on the campus as well.

I imagine that the Cal Poly Pomona campus nearby must also have at least one Jubaea, but I can't recall clearly.

P.S. Can anyone tell me the origin of the somewhat recently planted mammoth-size Jubaeas that now grace the M. H. de Young Memorial Museum in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park? Here are a load of links to pictures of them:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/queenjill/2432709777/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovedaylemon/3021689016/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/troutwerks/456929367/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewherndon/3201250439/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaderlab/2245244122/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuttlefish/2430222750/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33703834@N00/2903196501/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flavor32/2371445881/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17185003@N03/2452484938/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewherndon/3201250185/

[Palm Guy]

Nice historical story. These are really majestic palms! I'm currently trying them here. So far they have done quite well. Their still in pots though and no overhead watering. Might be a concern with all the rain we get here but we'll see what happens.

Beautiful pics!

[iamjv]

JasonD, I googled the area and came up with the park name, it's Overfelt Gardens on McKee St. (in between the 101 and the 680). Jv

[JasonD]

Hi Jacob!

All the palms at the new De Young came from the old De Young. They moved them into a fenced holding area in Golden Gate Park during construction and then moved them all back to the site, with remarkable success. There are also some husky juveniles that Garrin Fullington donated that got moved around in front of the museum and were planted with little care for their eventual grandeur, being treated as interchangeable with the Phoenix canariensis. If you do the Google drive-by you'll probably spot them, trunkless Jubaeas.

Now they overprune the heck out of all the palms there and I want to track down whoever's in charge of the landscape to prevent the next butchering.

The two tall Jubaeas went through their trunk-tapering phase during the construction period. I wonder whether it had anything to do with the transplanting and overpruning.

As a retail nurseryman, I have to say they're not easy to sell. Expensive, ugly in a 5-gallon, and slow. However, every time I'm talking to a customer with some land I promote them. We do better with 15-gal and 24in, because they're dense, dark-green and glossy, but the cost can be prohibitive for most people.

I must agree with my friend Jason. As a landscape designer in southern California I found that they are a difficult sell, even in large-scale and even large budget plantings. Either most people haven't seen how magnificent a Jubaea can be and/or they feel they can't justify spending so much on a palm that is much more expensive for its size in comparison with more recognisable and less expensive palms such as Phoenix canariensis, etc...

I tried many times to incorporate them into jobs and thankfully did have at least one victory! I got a nice full 24" box planted in a front yard of a hill top property in Chino Hills. Hopefully in 20 years time it will be something of a beacon / landmark atop that hill and inspire more local interest and (in my dreams of course) more demand for Jubaea among non-fully-fledged palm addicts in that region of inland southern California. He was a bit of a 'dream' client who also allowed planting of Chambeyronia macrocarpa, Ravenea glauca, Phoenix roebelenii (suckering Laos form), Roystonea regia and Arenga engleri.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the Mount San Antonio Community College in Walnut, California has a Jubaea on the upper part of campus. It has at least 3m of clean trunk and the leaves are all very upright. They also have some three-storey tall Howea forsteriana growing on another part of campus. And of course because of the legendary professor and nurseryman Dave Lannom, there are now many Caryota gigas on the campus as well.

I imagine that the Cal Poly Pomona campus nearby must also have at least one Jubaea, but I can't recall clearly.

P.S. Can anyone tell me the origin of the somewhat recently planted mammoth-size Jubaeas that now grace the M. H. de Young Memorial Museum in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park? Here are a load of links to pictures of them:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/queenjill/2432709777/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovedaylemon/3021689016/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/troutwerks/456929367/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewherndon/3201250439/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaderlab/2245244122/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuttlefish/2430222750/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33703834@N00/2903196501/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flavor32/2371445881/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17185003@N03/2452484938/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewherndon/3201250185/

Edited April 23, 2009 by JasonD

[swamptreenelly]

I have a couple hundred Jubaeas that B.J. Bunting has been growing for our City of Union City, We have planted about 30 so far. B.J. Bunting is from a pioneer family in the area from the 1860s. He collect the coconuts and grows them for us. They often take a year to germinate. He has to collect the coconuts early before the squirrels get them.

We know they will make the boldest statement in years to come and we know we won't get to see it. Our gardeners want to gift the gardeners who have not yet been born and hope to fire them up to continue bold type plantings to evoke emotions of people who drive or walk by them.

We also give them out on Earth Day, sort of a shot gun effect into the neighborhoods.

We can only dream how these will look some day. Another cool thing we have been doing is planting bald cypress in ponds to pre-treat the pond water and help remove the phosphates and nitrates, not to mention the spooky look and bird habitat they create.

[Perito]

In post # 1 at the bottom of paragraph 2, Kinton Stevens of Santa Barbara is mentioned as offering Jubaeas from his nursery. He lived at and had his nursery on the property now known as 'Lotusland'. It is very likely that Stevens is responsible for planting the oldest Jubaeas on the property which are some of the finest specimens in the State. The property was later purchased by Madame Ganna Walska who created many 'theme' gardens and planted one of the largest collection of cycads in the world. The garden is open for touring (by reservation only) most months of the year (www.lotusland.org) and is a "must see" for anyone who loves Jubaea chilensis.

Perry

[Morabeza]

Hi Jacob!

All the palms at the new De Young came from the old De Young. .... Now they overprune the heck out of all the palms there and I want to track down whoever's in charge of the landscape to prevent the next butchering.

The two tall Jubaeas went through their trunk-tapering phase during the construction period. I wonder whether it had anything to do with the transplanting and overpruning.

Thanks for that information Jason. The first time I saw those super-tall Jubaea was when the new De Young was just opening. My first thought was, OMG where on earth(!) did they dig those dream-size Jubaea from? Then my second thought, or reaction rather, was one of shock and dismay at what seemed like excessive over pruning for the presumed purpose of transplant survival. I was worried that they might have come close to killing them with that. Thankfully they appear from recent photographs to have grown back somewhat, albeit with that unsightly bottleneck! I certainly wish you success in petitioning the De Young Museum from over-pruning in the future! Perhaps the No. CA Palm Society and/or the Cal Hort Society, SF/Bay area Arborists etc. could sign a petition or something?

In post # 1 at the bottom of paragraph 2, Kinton Stevens of Santa Barbara is mentioned as offering Jubaeas from his nursery. He lived at and had his nursery on the property now known as 'Lotusland'. .... a "must see" for anyone who loves Jubaea chilensis.

Perry

Thanks Perry for mentioning the nursery that existed on the site before Ganna Walska turned it into Lotusland. I was wondering if anyone was going to chime in regarding that important historical link. It truly is a must see, even if for the many very picturesque Jubaea on the grounds!! Also, those 'palmophiles' out there who haven't yet heard of the wonders of Lotusland, perhaps confused by its theme park-like name, it is truly a top notch botanical and landscape design masterpiece! More like a plant lover's real-life Alice in Wonderland! The only thing remotely cartoonish about it are the fascinating stone creatures that populate the Theatre Garden.

Link to the Lotusland site: http://www.lotusland.org/

[iamjv]

Nelson congrats on yours and BJ Buntings' efforts.... wonderful that someone is thinking of the generation of palm lovers to come. That area should be impressive in 30+ years with all those jubs around.

Perry you are right on the mark about the jubs at LotusLand being impressive and a must see. My son and I went to see the gardens a number of years back and we both left there in awe! I hope to get back there soon to take it all in again.... Jv

[JasonD]

Jubaeas may be slow when young, but many of them are pretty comparable to a Phoenix canariensis once they get rolling. There's a plant in the Mission District of San Francisco (Florida St. near 17th St., for those able to drive by) that was put in the ground in 1984 as a small plant and is now an impressive 20ft tall and fruiting, with a second generation of seedlings coming along. In San Francisco, that's faster growth than a Canary. 25 years may be how long we have to wait to see perfectly amazing trees, if not the towering majestics of Fremont's Shinn Park or Lotusland.

[PalmGuyWC]

Jason,

I was unaware of the Jubaea in the Mission District, but I'll have to check it out. Since you know the year it was planted, do you know who planted it? Dr. U.A. Young's youngest son lived in that area and I believe he also planted some Parajubaea Cocoides along the street. Yesterday I noticed my only blooming Jubaea is pushing out a spathe. Once they appear they grow pretty fast.

Dick

[Darold Petty]

We planted three around the northern perimeter of the Mediterranean Garden, adjacent to our Lakeside Palmetum in Oakland. They are still quite small, and I received some curious looks when I insisted that they be at least 9 meters (30 feet) apart! They are seedlings from a blue form on Mission Street in Santa Cruz and were grown by Michael Shapiro in Santa Rosa.

[PalmGuyWC]

Darold,

It's nice to know you insisted on planting the Jubaeas 30' apart. Most people underestimate how large they grow, and Jubaeas don't look good crowded. Actually, I think the two growing in front of the De Young museum look kind of weird. Either one or three would have looked better. Just two looks a little bit to formal.

Dick

[swamptreenelly]

I planted one in my front yard in Newark, Ca. That makes two Jubaeas in Newark. The image link below shows 3 in Fremont and one in Newark. I asked two of our gardeners Matt Bauchou and Art Diosdado Jr. to establish 200 Jubaeas before he retires in 20 years in Union City. These two gardeners have already planted about 30 small jubaeas.

http://www.fremontica.com/roadside/list.ph...ubaea+chilensis

The ones at Shinn have blue fronds.

[PalmGuyWC]

Nelson,

As far as I know there are only 5 Jubaeas growing in Walnut Creek........those with trunk. Four are at my place and one growing in the Ruth Bancroft garden. There used to be a larger older one, blue, growing along a street in Walnut Creek, but it was growing into some power lines. I drove by one day and it was gone. I fear it was just chopped down. A buddy of mine just planted a nice 15 Gal. size in Concord, so there is at least one growing there, maybe more but I've never explored the streets of Concord.

Dick

[iamjv]

Have any official measurements been taken to identify the tallest (and presumeably oldest) jubaea in CA???

Here are some older pics I took from Lotusland...

LotusLand pics

Jv

[swamptreenelly]

Have any official measurements been taken to identify the tallest (and presumeably oldest) jubaea in CA???

Here are some older pics I took from Lotusland...

LotusLand pics

Jv

http://www.ufei.org/bigtrees/images.lasso?KeyValue=126

Fremont's beats Santa Clara

Palm, Monkeypod Coconut

Jubaea spectabilis

152 68 29 227 Fremont A. Cowley

2004

[iamjv]

Thanks for the link Nelson... that certainly can't be the biggest in the state. I'm almost positive the ones at Lotusland have to be bigger than that.... Maybe it's time for one of you CA residents to submit a new nominee for state champ.... Jv

[iamjv]

Nelson is this the one you were referring to??? Is it now recognized as the state champ??? Verbiage seems to indicate so.... thanks, Jv

Fremont Jub

[swamptreenelly]

Nelson is this the one you were referring to??? Is it now recognized as the state champ??? Verbiage seems to indicate so.... thanks, Jv

Fremont Jub

Jv,

Both of the Jubaeas are listed on the big tree registry. If you see a chinese livistona on the register, it is really a Livistona australis.

Nelson

http://www.ufei.org/bigtrees/bigtreelist.lasso

[Darold Petty]

Nelson, I'm 95% certain than the Jubaea on Monterey Blvd. in San Francisco is larger than 159 inches circumference. I can't measure it now because the mini-park location is fenced off for major reconstruction of the infrastructure. How high above the ground is this measurement taken? I will re-measure at the first opportunity.

[swamptreenelly]

Nelson, I'm 95% certain than the Jubaea on Monterey Blvd. in San Francisco is larger than 159 inches circumference. I can't measure it now because the mini-park location is fenced off for major reconstruction of the infrastructure. How high above the ground is this measurement taken? I will re-measure at the first opportunity.

Measure at 4.5 feet from grade. Here is the official standards.

http://www.ufei.org/BigTrees/nominate.html