Drip/Micro Irrigation Users

[MattyB]

Hey ya'll. I thought I'd start a thread where we could bandy about some ideas in regards to Drip and Micro Irrigation. In preparation for installing the beginnings of my system I've talked extensively with Gary Levine, Bill Sanford, Matt Patricelli and I've read 4 books on the subject. I think I've got a grasp on the concepts, parts available and my general "point of attack" in regards to starting my system. What I've learned is there's probably several ways to get similar results depending on how you set it up. So please, if anyone can add some info, personal experience, tips, questions about drip and micro irrigation that would be great.

For now, I'd like to pose a question to those watering palms or dicots with Pressure Compensating drippers. How many drippers and at what rate are you using for each palm? Station run time would be important info to include here. Do you add more as they get bigger? I'd especially like to hear about those of you who water on slopes.

[joe_OC]

Great topic, Matt. I will be interested in doing that after the palms are planted out.

[John Case]

Matty,

I installed a drip system on my property last year. It is intended to irrigat only the plants that I want to grow. That is to say, if it doesn't get water, it should not grow. This includes weeds, of course. Most of the system is on a hil that averages about 30%. The ground is almost 100% sand, expect where I improve the soils at the palntings. For low water plants, I have a small drip that delivers 1/2 gallon per hour. For those that require more, I install a sprinkler type that is adjustable from 1 to 3.5 gallons per hour. As of right now, the system is off and I turn in on once a week or when the groung gets dry. During the summer, it runs daily for 1/2 hour (we get well over 100F here ).

I hope this helps. It has saved me a lot of water usage over the past year. I can double or triple up on emitters for things like bamboo groves or banana mats.....I place the emitters above the plants as the water , believe it or not, runs downhill.

BTW, your pilot has Emmy written all over it...... I'm smelling' Best Actor in a semi-reality series using unknowns......

[turfpro01]

I dont really care for drip sytems. I would only use it on large properties that will not be heavily planted. Like if you were going to plant only palms far apart down a long drive, or really need to try and save water.

If you plan on adding plants, and having flower beds full of palm and under story plantings, I would use popup type sprinkler system. They have new heads that save water by having no mist.

If your set on drip I would set up the valves with pvc going to each area you need drip, that way its easyer to do changes to to the sytem and pvc will always be there. drip line can get old and damaged easy.

[DoomsDave]

Just taggin' along . . . .

Need to do a drippity drip at my place, too . . .

[MattyB]

Turfpro01,

Thanks for your thoughts. You bring up a good point about densely planted areas. At some point spraying the whole area, as opposed to dripping to each individual plant, becomes more efficient as the plant numbers increase. A problem I see with that is as plant material increases, so does obstruction of sprinkler heads. I plan on doing both drip emitters and micro(low pressure) spray heads in my rain forest/densley planted area. My thought is that trees and palms will get individual drippers and companion plants will all be watered by the sprayers. If a sprayer gets blocked I can easily pull up the stake and move it a bit. Where are you located? It might help if you fill in your location on your profile.

[palmmermaid]

Matty,

I think you are on the right track with drip. I have a friend here with a nursery with lots of field grown palms. He has staggered (height) plantings using the taller ones to shade the smaller ones. They are very close together and he uses drip on every plant. It is pretty densely planted and all of his palms are beautiful.

I am planting some large pots and plan on putting drip in them. I've had to raise several sprinkler heads in just a couple of years as my plants matured. I have to raise some of them again plus others. Since I don't care about the grass the idea of putting more drip in sounds better and better. I've gotten really good at PVC plumbing! Havven't trien any funny pipe yet but will soon. I am also installing shut-off valves for my orchid houses as they don't need as much water in the winter.

[Jeff Searle]

Matt,

A great subject, that I really know very little about. But my friend has his small yard down in the Keys entirely set up with this type of system. I would have to agree that if you have a densely planted area with large palms and trees, with lots of smaller understory plants, it's better to use sprinkler heads to give you a good coverage. In this case(sections of my yard), I have to periodically lower or raise my risers because of the ever changing growth in the landscape.

The reason I want to start adding some of these emitter heads is, that I have started to take advantage of some of the oak trees and I now have begun to mount orchids on them. And I want to be able to run a line up the tree on the back side and provide them a constant supply of water evertime I turn my system on.

Jeff

[DoomsDave]

Up until now, I've shied away from drip.

I've used it before, and it's a lot of work, and there has to be some benefit to make all that extra work worth it. Drip lines have to be inspected constantly, since lummoxen, kids and big dogs kick emitters and spaghetti lines, requiring repairs. You also have to be careful to add emitters as plants grow and need more water, and eventually the lines break down in the sun, crack, or get linhole leaks, and have to be replaced. And, people sometimes steal them.

In general, I've found that plants like the broadcast approach to watering, since that's what happens in nature. Weeds, too, of course, but weeks make great green manure, etc.

But, I think I now have a good reason.

As those who have visted my place know, my western neighbor's Ground Cover from the Fiery Depths of Hell, Vinca Major, is really becoming a problem. It sends out shoots six feet (2 m) long that root as they go. I don't think a fence will work, and the broadcast watering has allowed it go Palmazon poopy on the growth rate. I spent last weekend pulling it out, but eventually it will get the better of me if I snooze for even a moment.

So, drip lines will make it easier to control, by putting water right at the base of my individual plants, of which there now are many, and of which there will be many more.

[Jonathan]

Matt,

for what it's worth here is a pic (sorry bout the quality) of the little drip/sprinklers that I use.

These things are great, they can emit a spray diameter up to about 3 feet, or be wound right down to a drip.

The spray comes out as 8 solid little streams, so you don't loose water through misty drift. The head can also be wound right off to allow for flushing out. Its the ultimate pressure compensation system - because you can adjust the flow rate to suit each plant. Ideal for your steep block of land.

I've got these things installed over about 5 acres including a small orchard, and they work very well, even with my silty, salty bore water.

They are manufactured by a company called ENKI I think.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[_Keith]

I need this so bad, but only on some years and only on new plantings. By the third year most everything can get by, if not thrive on our clay soils and normal rainfall. But there are times,,,,times when I would kill for a drip irrigation system.

[Ken Johnson]

I'v been drippin and spritzen for years. My philosophy is hook up an easy, cheap, repairable system that can be turned on! Then stand back and watch you stuff grow faster than the neighbors. It's a little extra work and care but only minimal extra compaired to conventional sprinks. Trippin on the tubes can be a problem if you like to drink and walk in the garden at night! (Wal?)

[doubravsky]

I went to drip 1 1/2 years ago.. from regular sprinklers. I use mostly the 2 gph pressure compensating emitters. For larger palms I add a 2nd or 3rd emitter. I usuall yrun them for 30 minutes 2x per week until it gets up around 100 degrees (july-august) and then go to every other day.

I really like the impact on weeds, my water usage went down over 30%, and the palms seem to grow better. Then after I added the ez-gro fertilizer injector it really made a noticeable difference. But I sucked at fertilizing before that

[DoomsDave]

hI-HO, HIO-HO, IT'S OFF TO THE DRIP-SYSTEM STORE i GO!

[LJG]

Well, I am not a drip man. Thanks for asking. OK, so I will tell more. You see my theory is to produce as healthy, natural growing base as possible. Drips are great for areas like what Gary has. He can 'target drip'. But if you ever want to get a rain forest going, you will need sprayers. Drips create dry spots and in SoCal, those are basically dead areas. Sprinklers broad cast everywhere and there for keep all the mulch and compost wet to break down and better your soils. Roots love to spread their wings! Let them naturally go where they want with moist happy soil everywhere. Again, this is only for those heavily planted areas where you have tons of companion plants too.

Also, one thing I know from experience is you cannot mix a high pressure system with low. I tried putting in some drips inline with my sprinklers. The high pressure popups took all the water. How the hell does that happen?? Well it does! So if you do popups, run them on separate values then low pressure.

For you I think drip is good. You are growing canopy and palms. You are not companion planting yet. So all your trees and palms can be target watered. So it is a cheap way to start. Once you get canopy, you will want popups.

SoCal is tough compared to FL. Rain is not common here and with new water restrictions, popups are hard to justify if you do not have canopy and mulch down everywhere. OK, so those four paragraphs were free. A fifth would cost you, so I will stop now.

[BS Man about Palms]

Len has been bulking up on his snark vitamins. It really shows!!!

[_Keith]

hI-HO, HIO-HO, IT'S OFF TO THE DRIP-SYSTEM STORE i GO!

Me too. It is a good thing they are closed, so I can sleep it off the urge.

[ariscott]

Since you are establishing your palms, drip system will be fine for a few years. It does require maintenance and you do have to check them, but it has to be easier than handwatering. I used that little sprinkler heads (acts like drippers as you can adjust the flow) like what Jonathan posted for my orchards as they are all individual trees in lines... and use sprinkler heads for garden beds. It is better to separate drips and sprinkler on different lines. I don't use pop ups as I can't just move them whenever I want to as the garden grows.

I check mine every week. I got ant heads blocking my sprinklers all the time, as I still do mine manually (I still plug in which lines I want to water - I have 5 lines in total at the moment, and about the split one in two... so should be 6 soon). Controller is next on the list of what to get.... But other than that, it is pretty easy. Every year, you probably have to revisit your sprinkler/drip system as the garden grows. I am about to do mine again as my garden has gotten denser in the last 2 years... and a lot of stuff are now in the way of the sprinkler heads.

Good luck... After you install yours, you would wonder why you wouldn't do it sooner...

Regards, Ari

[Mats]

Matty, you're smart to be looking at drip because your slope would use/waste a ton of water if you were to use rotors or spray heads to water large portions of it all at once.

I'm not sure those shrubblers that Jonathan suggested are the best solution for your slope though. Using ¼" tubing (spaghetti lines) in a large area like yours would require frequent inspections and probably entail a lot of maintenance. I often use shrubblers in containers and small areas in suburbia, but you're dealing with a lot more wildlife in your area.

If I were you, I would run a 1" PVC supply lines down each side of the slope, creating 2 'zones' (or more depending on how much water you need, your water pressure and gph available). I would tap into the PVC and run ½" poly lines to your various planting areas. I would then use T connectors off the poly to Netafim loops (with inline pressure compensating emitters every 12") that circled around your plants. The poly line is just to get the water near the plants, the Netafim actually would water them. When the plants get bigger you can add more Netafim to your loops to apply more water. With beaucoup mulch and deep watering with drip, you'll conserve a lot of water. And the way this drought is going, it looks like water is going to be at a premium this year.

For more densely planted areas that you want to spray, you might consider MP Rotators. They put out water slowly to minimize erosion on slopes while giving you good coverage. On steep slopes, I like to use them with Hunter MPR40 pressure compensating pop-up bodies.

Rainbird has a line of products very similar to Netafim. But I usually deal with Ewing, so I go with Netafim.

.

[freakypalmguy]

Matt,

My property is similar to yours with the hillside. Drip is the only way to go. You have obviously done your homework and know that you can buy drip heads that drip or spray like pop-ups (they don't spray as far as pop-ups) so you have a ton of flexibility.

What I did before I got started was to rent a Ditch Witch and trenched all over my property. Then I laid PVC throughout the trenches with stub-ups every 15 feet or so, or wherever I had a group of plants, or where I knew a future planting would go. Then I topped the stub-ups with a unit similar to this.

Mine are a little different, but this gives you the ability to adjust flow. In some areas I have not used all six outlets so you can just shut off the unused outlets.

In some of the areas where the stub up is, I just connected the black poly tube an ran it around a grouping or along a hedge so that I could hook straight into it with drip heads or run individual 1/4" lines with drip heads to individual plants.

I also teed off one of my water spickets at the house and ran a line from it all through the trenches with a stub-ups and capped those with another water spicket. Now I can use a short hose to do any hand watering as I have spickets all over my property. It's also convenient when your hands get all mucked up while you are working and want to rinse them off. I also spent the extra and just laid an extra line of PVC in the trench just in case.

I use many of the same type of drip head that Jonathan uses. I found them in bags of 50 and having the spike attached is convenient. The ones I found even had the little barb connector so that you can plug a 1/4" line extender into some of the black poly tube.

Good luck,

Matt

6_Outlet_Adjustable_Emitter_Full.bmp

[BS Man about Palms]

Freaky Matt-

That head is one I would like to get. Where did you find it?

Bill

[freakypalmguy]

Lowes or Home Depot has a few different types that are nice, but Temecula Valley Pipe Supply has some as well.

Matt

[Breadfruit Bill]

www.dripdepot.com

That site has been really useful to me for exploring parts used for drip systems... I purchase from them instead of making 87 trips back and forth to 6 different HD's & Lowe's to get all the parts in need for a job. Shipping is cheaper than my time and headache...

I recently installed and entire understory garden using entirely drip. A bit more labor intesive, but very exacting with the water. I like the efficiency and conservation factors.

[doubravsky]

When I did mine I already had pvc run and sprinklers existing, so I just bought the adaptor that converts to low flow and added the poly ling all around. I like thet you can adjust the water levels by just adding or taking away drips. So my majesties have like 6 drips and the Bismarcks just has or two....

[MattyB]

Matty, you're smart to be looking at drip because your slope would use/waste a ton of water if you were to use rotors or spray heads to water large portions of it all at once.

I'm not sure those shrubblers that Jonathan suggested are the best solution for your slope though. Using ¼" tubing (spaghetti lines) in a large area like yours would require frequent inspections and probably entail a lot of maintenance. I often use shrubblers in containers and small areas in suburbia, but you're dealing with a lot more wildlife in your area.

If I were you, I would run a 1" PVC supply lines down each side of the slope, creating 2 'zones' (or more depending on how much water you need, your water pressure and gph available). I would tap into the PVC and run ½" poly lines to your various planting areas. I would then use T connectors off the poly to Netafim loops (with inline pressure compensating emitters every 12") that circled around your plants. The poly line is just to get the water near the plants, the Netafim actually would water them. When the plants get bigger you can add more Netafim to your loops to apply more water. With beaucoup mulch and deep watering with drip, you'll conserve a lot of water. And the way this drought is going, it looks like water is going to be at a premium this year.

For more densely planted areas that you want to spray, you might consider MP Rotators. They put out water slowly to minimize erosion on slopes while giving you good coverage. On steep slopes, I like to use them with Hunter MPR40 pressure compensating pop-up bodies.

Rainbird has a line of products very similar to Netafim. But I usually deal with Ewing, so I go with Netafim.

.

Mats,

Thanks for all the info. I'm familiar with the Natafim product line and have read all the literature. I've got an account at Hydroscape and can get one at Ewing because I have a contractors license. But, other than buying the higher quality cellenoid valves that I like I think I'm going to do all my shopping at Home Depot using the DIG products. They seem comparable and I like the idea that I can browse the racks instead of having an associate pull for me.

I already have a 1" main down the property line. I'm going to trench and lay 3/4" PVC headers out to the planting areas where it will pop up and I can T off to 1/2" poly laterals, while the 3/4" PVC and continue onto the next area. I've got that all flagged out and I'm pretty much set in what I wanna do there.

But you bring up a great point about the 1/4" line w/ individual emitters possibly being a maintenance headache or problems with thirsty rabbits/squirrels/crack heads. I'm torn between that and doing what you say with the 1/2" polyhose w/ built in PC emitters. How many GPH are the inline PC emitters? 2? So a 24" loop would have 2 emitters. Hmmmm . OK, I've got to think about that some more. Do you know if I can punch into the emitter line like the regular polyhose? I might wanna just punch in and add some 1/4" and sprayers right off of that.

[ariscott]

Don't you have 1inch poly in the US? PVC sounds like too much work?? Mine is all 1 inch polly all around the block, and then 5mm poly for drippers/sprinkler heads.

Regards, Ari

[freakypalmguy]

Matty, you're smart to be looking at drip because your slope would use/waste a ton of water if you were to use rotors or spray heads to water large portions of it all at once.

I'm not sure those shrubblers that Jonathan suggested are the best solution for your slope though. Using ¼" tubing (spaghetti lines) in a large area like yours would require frequent inspections and probably entail a lot of maintenance. I often use shrubblers in containers and small areas in suburbia, but you're dealing with a lot more wildlife in your area.

If I were you, I would run a 1" PVC supply lines down each side of the slope, creating 2 'zones' (or more depending on how much water you need, your water pressure and gph available). I would tap into the PVC and run ½" poly lines to your various planting areas. I would then use T connectors off the poly to Netafim loops (with inline pressure compensating emitters every 12") that circled around your plants. The poly line is just to get the water near the plants, the Netafim actually would water them. When the plants get bigger you can add more Netafim to your loops to apply more water. With beaucoup mulch and deep watering with drip, you'll conserve a lot of water. And the way this drought is going, it looks like water is going to be at a premium this year.

For more densely planted areas that you want to spray, you might consider MP Rotators. They put out water slowly to minimize erosion on slopes while giving you good coverage. On steep slopes, I like to use them with Hunter MPR40 pressure compensating pop-up bodies.

Rainbird has a line of products very similar to Netafim. But I usually deal with Ewing, so I go with Netafim.

.

Mats,

Thanks for all the info. I'm familiar with the Natafim product line and have read all the literature. I've got an account at Hydroscape and can get one at Ewing because I have a contractors license. But, other than buying the higher quality cellenoid valves that I like I think I'm going to do all my shopping at Home Depot using the DIG products. They seem comparable and I like the idea that I can browse the racks instead of having an associate pull for me.

I already have a 1" main down the property line. I'm going to trench and lay 3/4" PVC headers out to the planting areas where it will pop up and I can T off to 1/2" poly laterals, while the 3/4" PVC and continue onto the next area. I've got that all flagged out and I'm pretty much set in what I wanna do there.

But you bring up a great point about the 1/4" line w/ individual emitters possibly being a maintenance headache or problems with thirsty rabbits/squirrels/crack heads. I'm torn between that and doing what you say with the 1/2" polyhose w/ built in PC emitters. How many GPH are the inline PC emitters? 2? So a 24" loop would have 2 emitters. Hmmmm . OK, I've got to think about that some more. Do you know if I can punch into the emitter line like the regular polyhose? I might wanna just punch in and add some 1/4" and sprayers right off of that.

Every situation is different, but I have lots of squirrels, rabbits, gopher, etc. ....... at my place and the only thing that affects the 1/4" tube is my weed eater, and holy cow, that stuff winds up quickly around the weed eater head The poly tube is the only thing I've had a problem with, the coyotes chewed threw it a few times searching for water during the summer.

[Mats]

Every situation is different, but I have lots of squirrels, rabbits, gopher, etc. ....... at my place and the only thing that affects the 1/4" tube is my weed eater, and holy cow, that stuff winds up quickly around the weed eater head The poly tube is the only thing I've had a problem with, the coyotes chewed threw it a few times searching for water during the summer.

Matt, you're right about everybody having different experiences. Here in suburbia (So. Orange Co.), my problem is mice & rats chewing the ¼" spaghetti line.

I'm familiar with the Natafim product line and have read all the literature. I've got an account at Hydroscape and can get one at Ewing because I have a contractors license. But, other than buying the higher quality cellenoid valves that I like I think I'm going to do all my shopping at Home Depot using the DIG products. They seem comparable and I like the idea that I can browse the racks instead of having an associate pull for me. I already have a 1" main down the property line. I'm going to trench and lay 3/4" PVC headers out to the planting areas where it will pop up and I can T off to 1/2" poly laterals, while the 3/4" PVC and continue onto the next area. I've got that all flagged out and I'm pretty much set in what I wanna do there.

But you bring up a great point about the 1/4" line w/ individual emitters possibly being a maintenance headache or problems with thirsty rabbits/squirrels/crack heads. I'm torn between that and doing what you say with the 1/2" polyhose w/ built in PC emitters. How many GPH are the inline PC emitters? 2? So a 24" loop would have 2 emitters. Hmmmm . OK, I've got to think about that some more.

I'm with you about being able to browse the racks, that bugs me about Hydroscape too. But Ewing has all their stuff laid out in the aisles so you can fidldle with the merchandise.

And definitely buy your valves and solenoids at an irrigation supply house - not a box store.

Netafim's Techline CV (with inline PC emitters and check valves) comes in .4, .6 and .9 gph.

In our heavy clay, I like the .6 gph. When I run into sandy soil, I use .9. I like loops because you can easily adjust them to the drip line as the plant grows.

But then the concept of 'dripline' isn't as pronounced with palms as it is with deciduous trees though.

So a 24" loop would have 2 emitters. Hmmmm . OK, I've got to think about that some more

See, I don't think 2 emitters is enough for anything that is 5 gal. size and up. That goes along with Len's idea of using sprays to get good coverage. (that said, while sprays work for suburban lots, I don't think they're appropriate for your slope).

With my loops, I can get 4 or more emitters around each rootball, which will give me good coverage. I often use Netafim's 1/4" line (with inline emitters) for containers to get through saturation all around the pot.

Do you know if I can punch into the emitter line like the regular polyhose? I might wanna just punch in and add some 1/4" and sprayers right off of that.

Netafim does sell the DIG-like emitters but their catalog mentions using them with their solid poly line for "widely spaced plants and containers". I'm just guessing, but I think using the punched in emitters with the Techline would interfere with pressure and therefore flow. You know how DIG says to keep their emitters 12" apart on the poly line? Well, I would think Netafim would be the same.

But if you're talking about mixing micro sprays with Techline, I would say no, they wouldn't mix. Those micro sprays put out a lot of water - way more than 2 gph. .

I think drip and micro sprays need to be on two separate zones. I would be running the drip for 30 - 40 min for a deep soak. That same 30 min with those micro sprays would be overkill.

But 30 or 35 min. isn't too much for those MP Rotators though. Generally speaking, you run those 2½ times longer than a rainbird spray nozzle to get the same amount of water put down.

That would be a good question for Netafim. You can ask them here.

.

[Mats]

www.dripdepot.com

That site has been really useful to me for exploring parts used for drip systems... I purchase from them instead of making 87 trips back and forth to 6 different HD's & Lowe's to get all the parts in need for a job. Shipping is cheaper than my time and headache...

DripWorks is another good mail order company. They have a great catalog that is very informative.

I like a the paper version that I can browse, but it is also available online - HERE.

.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Mats

[doubravsky]

I've used dripworks whenever it wasn't HD or Lowe's stuff. They are helpful. Once when I wasn't sure about a hill and low pressure, I called them and they spent a lot of time doing calculations for me. Always good service....

[LJG]

So I was totally stoked to replace my popups with these rotators. Not as much mist, less water release to allow longer watering before run off, plus further coverage. OK, I go to buy some. Holy cr@p! $6 a piece. I have like 500 popups. I will have to do this in phases.

For more densely planted areas that you want to spray, you might consider MP Rotators. They put out water slowly to minimize erosion on slopes while giving you good coverage. On steep slopes, I like to use them with Hunter MPR40 pressure compensating pop-up bodies.

.

[Mats]

So I was totally stoked to replace my popups with these rotators. Not as much mist, less water release to allow longer watering before run off, plus further coverage. OK, I go to buy some. Holy cr@p! $6 a piece. I have like 500 popups. I will have to do this in phases.

Len, there's a rebate on MP Rotators that damn near pays for them. Are you in the Vista Irrigation District? If so, you're eligible. You can check your eligibility HERE.

Here's a link to the program - SoCal WaterSmart.

I get them at Ewing for $5 each so have MattyB get an account there with his contractor's license and that will save you another $500.

MP Rotators are great. I retrofit poorly designed sprinkler systems that don't have enough pressure to properly operate all the pop-up sprays and the rotators work like a charm.

.

[DoomsDave]

Thanks for the links!