Frost removal

[falcon1988]

Good morning Everyone,

Hope things are well I just wanted to know how to remove frost from palms safely without harming the palm I heard by others

if the temp out side is above 32 and before the sunrise something like that well i think thats just a myth on 1/22/08 I hit 37-38

for a low plus light frost and I woke up early that morning to reduce my frost damage however i hose down what i can reach and

what i found out it doesn't matter I still gotten the damage if i haven't so I think its a myth that got busted my hurricane palm has minor

and my spindle is completely brown i am upset about the spindle its only 3 feet tall my coconut has minor and my veitchia arecina is about 50%

burned however they do recover pretty fast and i did use anti-stress 2000 on my tender palms and it did reduce the frost burn something

to share in a a nutshell hose down in a frost event is just wasting your time unless someone can prove that the palms where not damage by temperature

its this darn frost thats the issue just wish spring will kick back in soon

[BS Man about Palms]

Matthew, I'd have to look it up, but I believe the point would be to continuously soak your plants BEFORE the frost /32 point gets there. Thus the lowest your leaf sees is 32F. If you saw frost on the leafs, it was already below that long enough to cause the leaf toform the frost. I know several people out here that have had success with it in the past. But its a BEFORE the event thing, not after.

Several I know have set their sprinklers for roughly a 5 mins on, 5 off thing thru the night then run it till at least 35 or higher.

[Mark Heath]

i have heard this myth before, and i guess it is cleared up now! I have'nt tried it because i am gone to work by 6:00am,

so i can't water the palms myself.

[edric]

Especially if you live in FL, and have well water, the water in the ground is very warm, Ed

[turfpro01]

They run water in the orange feilds when it gets to cold, Not sure how it works, I just know they run water and wind machines.

[BS Man about Palms]

  Mark Heath said:

i have heard this myth before, and i guess it is cleared up now! I have'nt tried it because i am gone to work by 6:00am,

so i can't water the palms myself.

Mark- not sure, do you think its a myth now or not? It works, its how you do it that matters. Ask your Orange growers out there.

[gsn]

Two issues are being confused here!

Falcon is NOT talking about continually watering plants durning a freeze event,ie:like fern growers do here in Florida.This watering is done just before the plants reach freezing 32F, and continues until the temps warm to the point of the ice that was formed on them melts and runs off. The proporties at work are, as the ice forms it generates heat,keeping the plant from going no lower than 32F. This is somewhat complicated as to the amount of water that is needed to accomplish this goal.If one does not know exactly what they are doing,rates, temps,ect., it can be more harmful than benifical.Example if the water is stopped before it actually melts off , you can do more damage than if no water was applied,because the plant will actually get colder than if no ice formed.Also too much water used, can create heavy branches actually causing them to break.

Again this is NOT what Falcon is talking about. He is referring to a situation, where the temp is above freezing(32F) but FROST has formed on a plants surface. Something that happens fairly frequently here in Florida, probably not so much in California,because of the lower humidity.

That is why us Floridans always ask you Cali guys if there was frost? You seem to use freeze and frost out there to mean the same thing, here they are totally different ,one is a temp below32F (freeze) the other a temp above 32F ,but ice crystals (frost) have formed on plant surfaces.

I have also heard this theory he is asking about, but have been afraid to try it.

It goes like this,the temp is ABOVE 32F,but frost (ice crystals) have formed on your plant surface,the proponents of this say the damage occurs ,when the the suns rays hit the frost on the plant surfaces. Their theory is, if the frost is washed off the plants before the sun comes UP, and the rays actually hits the plants ,you can minimize/eliminate the damage the frost would cause to the plant. Also there would be no ice formed on the plant in this scenario as the temp is above 32F (freezing)!

Edited February 1, 2009 by gsn

[Walt]

  gsn said:

Two issues are being confused here!

Falcon is NOT talking about continually watering plants durning a freeze event,ie:like fern growers do here in Florida.This watering is done just before the plants reach freezing 32F, and continues until the temps warm to the point of the ice that was formed on them melts and runs off. The proporties at work are, as the ice forms it generates heat,keeping the plant from going no lower than 32F. This is somewhat complicated as to the amount of water that is needed to accomplish this goal.If one does not know exactly what they are doing,rates, temps,ect., it can be more harmful than benifical.Example if the water is stopped before it actually melts off , you can do more damage than if no water was applied,because the plant will actually get colder than if no ice formed.Also too much water used, can create heavy branches actually causing them to break.

Again this is NOT what Falcon is talking about. He is referring to a situation, where the temp is above freezing(32F) but FROST has formed on a plants surface. Something that happens fairly frequently here in Florida, probably not so much in California,because of the lower humidity.

That is why us Floridans always ask you Cali guys if there was frost? You seem to use freeze and frost out there to mean the same thing, here they are totally different ,one is a temp below32F (freeze) the other a temp above 32F ,but ice crystals (frost) have formed on plant surfaces.

I have also heard this theory he is asking about, but have been afraid to try it.

It goes like this,the temp is ABOVE 32F,but frost (ice crystals) have formed on your plant surface,the proponents of this say the damage occurs ,when the the suns rays hit the frost on the plant surfaces. Their theory is, if the frost is washed off the plants before the sun comes UP, and the rays actually hits the plants ,you can minimize/eliminate the damage the frost would cause to the plant. Also there would be no ice formed on the plant in this scenario as the temp is above 32F (freezing)!

I've tried to water down palms and plants (like Philodendron Selloums) to wash off frost or black ice with no success. The leaves were damaged. However, this was during a hard frost, when my open yard temperatures dropped to the mid 20s. Had my temperatures been around 32 degrees with frost, the washing with water may have helped.

I think the theory is, is that when the frost and/or black ice on the leaves melts slowly from increasing ambiet temperatures and/or direct solar radiation, it damages the leaf tissue. Melting if fast with large amounts of water prevents the above process.

In any case, once plants are exposed to a hard frost, the tissues are probably already below the low temperature threshold, so watering the leaves is academic.

Others in this thread, as you noted, are confusing using water to provide overhead irrigation to plants to protect them from freezing (low temperature is specific to each plant/palm).

Ice is formed at 32 degrees and if the water is continued in a minimum quantity (.25 inch to .35/hour) more ice will be formed, releasing latent heat (the latent heat of fusion), and I think it's about 1,200 BTU/pound of water, and the irrigatied palm/plant will never drop below 32 degrees.

But this method is only recommend for radiational freeze where there is little or no wind. If it is windy and humidity very low, you can get into the situation of evaporated cooling, where the water being applied evaporates and extracts large amounts of heat from the plants for the change of state process.

Water can be tricky and I don't use it to protect plants, other than to saturate the ground around my palms the night before a radiational freeze. The saturated soil will allow more heat to be stored in it from sun radiation. Also, the75 degree well water I apply also adds heat to the soil.

[gsn]

Walt,

I think you are correct in that , most of the damage has been done if frost forms on the plant,that is why I have enver tried washing it off. Afraid of actually doing more damage.

Your also right about using water as cold protection, below 32F, it is very tricky,and you better know what you are doing!

And I also firmly beleive in deep watering the day/morning before the freeze event,as this does release warmer ground temps which radiate up into the plants above!

[falcon1988]

Thanks everyone,

gsn very well put did better then me explaining this theory LOL.

[Davidl]

I have done it and it did help. If you don't continue to wash of the fronds until it gets above freezing you will cause more harm than good. If you have frost for several hours I doubt it will help much.

[_Keith]

Here in frost haven, quite literally, it is a common practice of dedicate gardeners to do this. Some say you have to get out as the frost is first forming and hit it then. Others say anytime before sunrise is OK. It may be the same as frost here peaks in formation just before daybreak and peaks just after. I can tell you, that although there are many variables that might cause the effect to vary, it is certainly not a myth and can sometimes save your plants.