New to Palm talk- Budrot

[Smilecaribbean]

Hello everyone,

I am new to the palm talk forum. I have been looking for a site like this to be able to exchange and learn from experts in palms and palm care.

On my island we have a serious problem with bud rot. It is devastating palms all over. The exclusive resorts are now in panic mode and want something done. We got advice to use aliette and banrot as preventative treatment, but with palms so tall how effective will aliette as a drench be? and how long will it be before we see a slow down in actual palm death? We are very concerned. Would appreciate any bit of advice available.

Smile Caribbean

[RainForestt Robert]

Where are you located?

[Exotic Life]

Welcome over here,

With island of the caribbean do you live?

Robbin

[kahili]

Smilecarribbean, I am assuming that you have an outbreak of the fungus (water mold) of pythium, since you were told to use two fungicides that only treat pythium and phytophthora. Banrot is made up of two different fungicides-Truban (etridiozole is the active ingredient) and Clearys (although it is manufactured under many other names now, but the active ingredient is thiophanate-methyl). Its the Truban fungicide that will treat pythium, not the Clearys fungicide and you can buy Truban separately from Clearys. Aliette is also a good fungicide to treat pythium, as is Subdue. Those are your best fungicides for this fungus.

All three of the above fungicides are used systemically-they are put into the soil where the roots can take up the fungicide. All 3 provide anywhere from 30-60 days of coverage. To drench with any of the above-be sure to follow the mixture amts and just get down about .5"-1" into the ground around the palm roots and then use water ( or a good rain storm) to get the mixture down deeper, or else you will be using too much of the active ingredient. You should definitely alternate between at least two of the above fungicides and if possible all 3 to avoid this particular strain of pythium building up resistence to one of the fungicides. I would use one, and then two weeks later use another and then if you have a third, use that after two more weeks. This is considered an aggressive approach, but if you have a serious outbreak, then this will help. It takes at least a week for the plant to take up the fungicide and probably longer if they are mature palms, and if they are not actively growing (like in summer-with higher temps and longer days-not sure what your growing conditions are right now). After you apply each fungicide-I would wait the 30 days before you reapply that particular fungicide again.

The deal with treating pythium (and phytophthora) is that usually the plant that is infected may not be able to be saved, but the ones around it that are not infected (and it may take a few wks to see the symptoms) will respond to the fungicide. Sort of like giving it a shield.

These fungicides will not get rid of the pythium-just protect the plants from it.

It may help you to understand how it is spread. Pythium is found in the soil-sometimes at the deeper level where the roots are, and sometimes at the base of the plant and the more shallow roots (which is why pythium is sometimes know as crown rot) depending on the strain. They are not airborne spores, they are spread by heavy rain splashing or moving the soil to the next plant or with tools that are used in the infected soil, or with the bottom of your shoes etc. It may be a good idea to sterilize your tools that come into contact with the infected soil. Use 3 parts bleach to 10 parts water and let the tool sit for 10 mins in solution, then rinse. Keep in mind that the bleach solution is only good for 2 hrs and then it starts to break down and lose its effectiveness.

Pythium and phytophthora like wet, humid and warm areas (there are strains of pythium that can be active in colder temps), so if there is a way to keep the soil on the dry side, that would help.

I hope this helps, and that you guys don't lose too many more palms. If I didn't explain something clearly, please ask more questions. Good luck.

[surferjr]

Hello everyone,

I am new to the palm talk forum. I have been looking for a site like this to be able to exchange and learn from experts in palms and palm care.

On my island we have a serious problem with bud rot. It is devastating palms all over. The exclusive resorts are now in panic mode and want something done. We got advice to use aliette and banrot as preventative treatment, but with palms so tall how effective will aliette as a drench be? and how long will it be before we see a slow down in actual palm death? We are very concerned. Would appreciate any bit of advice available.

Smile Caribbean

Hi Smiles,

Great to have you on board...

First thing you must remember, - beware of anyone here whom calls themselves an expert!!

That being said, I'm sure you'll find lots of information that well help your cause!

Look at all you options carefully and take the most natural and organic approach first. As most your chemical remedies just prolong the death, ruin the soil and kill the planet!

What ever you've got, if corrected it will probably return some day, So I'd look at replanting new species while there's a canopy. KEN JOHNSON here can help on the planting of the big stuff, but get some new species going soon. You should be do this anyways!!!

Good luck as I don't know Cocos very well.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years,

clark

[bgl]

Hi Ilis,

Welcome to the IPS PalmTalk Forum! I hope you'll find the information that you're looking for. Seems like kahili already gave you a pretty detailed response!

Aloha from the Big Island!

Bo-Göran

[Dypsisdean]

I think there is some vital information missing here.

I have to assume you are referring to coco palms. Is that the case? If so, are you experiencing "bud rot" on other species of palms as well? And if not, which palms seem to be resistant?

And who told you it was "bud rot?" Could you be experiencing an outbreak of lethal yellow, or that new palm mite, or other crown burrowing pest that is allowing the "bud" to rot out? The "bud rot" could be a secondary infection.

Perhaps some pics could help us supply more help.

[surferjr]

I think there is some vital information missing here.

I have to assume you are referring to coco palms. Is that the case? If so, are you experiencing "bud rot" on other species of palms as well? And if not, which palms seem to be resistant?

And who told you it was "bud rot?" Could you be experiencing an outbreak of lethal yellow, or that new palm mite, or other crown burrowing pest that is allowing the "bud" to rot out? The "bud rot" could be a secondary infection.

Perhaps some pics could help us supply more help.

GREAT POINTS! I though lethal yellow straight away! But I'm not going to sound knowledgeable cause I'm not

NEED PICS!! :rolleyes:

[Hollywood Palms]

Welcome to the board.

David

[Smilecaribbean]

Where are you located?

I am located in St. Kitts.

[Smilecaribbean]

Welcome over here,

With island of the caribbean do you live?

Robbin

St. Kitts- tiny island in the northern leeward islands

[Smilecaribbean]

Smilecarribbean, I am assuming that you have an outbreak of the fungus (water mold) of pythium, since you were told to use two fungicides that only treat pythium and phytophthora. Banrot is made up of two different fungicides-Truban (etridiozole is the active ingredient) and Clearys (although it is manufactured under many other names now, but the active ingredient is thiophanate-methyl). Its the Truban fungicide that will treat pythium, not the Clearys fungicide and you can buy Truban separately from Clearys. Aliette is also a good fungicide to treat pythium, as is Subdue. Those are your best fungicides for this fungus.

All three of the above fungicides are used systemically-they are put into the soil where the roots can take up the fungicide. All 3 provide anywhere from 30-60 days of coverage. To drench with any of the above-be sure to follow the mixture amts and just get down about .5"-1" into the ground around the palm roots and then use water ( or a good rain storm) to get the mixture down deeper, or else you will be using too much of the active ingredient. You should definitely alternate between at least two of the above fungicides and if possible all 3 to avoid this particular strain of pythium building up resistence to one of the fungicides. I would use one, and then two weeks later use another and then if you have a third, use that after two more weeks. This is considered an aggressive approach, but if you have a serious outbreak, then this will help. It takes at least a week for the plant to take up the fungicide and probably longer if they are mature palms, and if they are not actively growing (like in summer-with higher temps and longer days-not sure what your growing conditions are right now). After you apply each fungicide-I would wait the 30 days before you reapply that particular fungicide again.

The deal with treating pythium (and phytophthora) is that usually the plant that is infected may not be able to be saved, but the ones around it that are not infected (and it may take a few wks to see the symptoms) will respond to the fungicide. Sort of like giving it a shield.

These fungicides will not get rid of the pythium-just protect the plants from it.

It may help you to understand how it is spread. Pythium is found in the soil-sometimes at the deeper level where the roots are, and sometimes at the base of the plant and the more shallow roots (which is why pythium is sometimes know as crown rot) depending on the strain. They are not airborne spores, they are spread by heavy rain splashing or moving the soil to the next plant or with tools that are used in the infected soil, or with the bottom of your shoes etc. It may be a good idea to sterilize your tools that come into contact with the infected soil. Use 3 parts bleach to 10 parts water and let the tool sit for 10 mins in solution, then rinse. Keep in mind that the bleach solution is only good for 2 hrs and then it starts to break down and lose its effectiveness.

Pythium and phytophthora like wet, humid and warm areas (there are strains of pythium that can be active in colder temps), so if there is a way to keep the soil on the dry side, that would help.

I hope this helps, and that you guys don't lose too many more palms. If I didn't explain something clearly, please ask more questions. Good luck.

Thanks for he information. I have been trying to determine the optimum rates for both Banrot and Aliette. the last bit of information I found was work done in Asia where the recommendations were for 14grams of Aliette and 2 grams of Banrot, dissolved in 1 gallon of water. This ws per tree as a soil drench. They also spoke to the use of trunk injections where the dosage was half the amount.

I have not seen any other actual dosage recommmendations for mature coconuts ' cocos' or known susceptible ornamental palms.

[Smilecaribbean]

Hi Ilis,

Welcome to the IPS PalmTalk Forum! I hope you'll find the information that you're looking for. Seems like kahili already gave you a pretty detailed response!

Aloha from the Big Island!

Bo-Göran

Thanks. It was a lot of useful information

[Smilecaribbean]

I think there is some vital information missing here.

I have to assume you are referring to coco palms. Is that the case? If so, are you experiencing "bud rot" on other species of palms as well? And if not, which palms seem to be resistant?

And who told you it was "bud rot?" Could you be experiencing an outbreak of lethal yellow, or that new palm mite, or other crown burrowing pest that is allowing the "bud" to rot out? The "bud rot" could be a secondary infection.

Perhaps some pics could help us supply more help.

I will include so pics. We had a visiting plant pathologist who did some work for us. We have outbreaks of lethal yellowing on our isiter island Nevis, but all the samples that we have sent to test for lethal yellowing has been negative. We do have the red palm mite as well but they do not really kill the palms, just make them yellow and the fruits scarred.

[Smilecaribbean]

Welcome to the board.

David

Thanks David,

I hope to learn a lot from you guys!

[Dypsisdean]

I'm still curious if it is just coco palms that are affected, or are any other species you may have growing there affected as well?

[Smilecaribbean]

I'm still curious if it is just coco palms that are affected, or are any other species you may have growing there affected as well?

date palms, fan palms, washingtonia, christmas palms: these are what I've seen so far infected.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Welcome to the forum Smilecaribbean!

I'm looking forward to some photographs as well, maybe with those we can better diagnose what you've got going on down there...

[Smilecaribbean]

I think there is some vital information missing here.

I have to assume you are referring to coco palms. Is that the case? If so, are you experiencing "bud rot" on other species of palms as well? And if not, which palms seem to be resistant?

And who told you it was "bud rot?" Could you be experiencing an outbreak of lethal yellow, or that new palm mite, or other crown burrowing pest that is allowing the "bud" to rot out? The "bud rot" could be a secondary infection.

Perhaps some pics could help us supply more help.

[Smilecaribbean]

I think there is some vital information missing here.

I have to assume you are referring to coco palms. Is that the case? If so, are you experiencing "bud rot" on other species of palms as well? And if not, which palms seem to be resistant?

And who told you it was "bud rot?" Could you be experiencing an outbreak of lethal yellow, or that new palm mite, or other crown burrowing pest that is allowing the "bud" to rot out? The "bud rot" could be a secondary infection.

Perhaps some pics could help us supply more help.

[Smilecaribbean]

Hi,

I added some pics, I am hoping that they were posted.

[surferjr]

Hi,

I added some pics, I am hoping that they were posted.

Might want to refer here for assistance as no pictures have up loaded??

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=12497

Happy New Years,

clark