Fertilizer

[Bags]

I am new to growing palms and am still learning the best methods. I have used both compost and wood chips as mulch and an organic fertilizer made by Agrow winn. Most of my palms have been in the ground for less than one year and some are not as green as I would like. I would like to stay with organics, but ultimately I am going to use what makes my yard look the best. I would like to know what everyone is using and how is it working for you? Please list the name of any products as well. Thank you, Aaron

[cencalpalmguy]

I am new to growing palms and am still learning the best methods. I have used both compost and wood chips as mulch and an organic fertilizer made by Agrow winn. Most of my palms have been in the ground for less than one year and some are not as green as I would like. I would like to stay with organics, but ultimately I am going to use what makes my yard look the best. I would like to know what everyone is using and how is it working for you? Please list the name of any products as well. Thank you, Aaron

I use palm spikes from www.lutzcorp.com . They have done wonders on my queen palms.

[Palms90210]

Apex 13-5-8 Palm Special; for years.

[osideterry]

I used the Apex PalmPlus for a couple years, but the last time I went to buy it, the price had doubled. It seems like it was $60-75 a bag, but my memory might be off. I passed and went with some palm fert at Lowes for $10 a bag.

[joe_OC]

Hey Aaron,

When I first started, I used Apex Palm Plus, but I decided to go organic...

I've been using 12% Humic Acid (there is a product that has 15%, but I haven't tried it yet), hydrolyzed fish (cold processed, very stable and less smell than fish emulsion), and sea kelp.

I also mulch (4-6" thick) with organic horse manure compost. I did it twice this year and plan on keeping that regiment.

HTH's,

Joe

[joe_OC]

I used the Apex PalmPlus for a couple years, but the last time I went to buy it, the price had doubled. It seems like it was $60-75 a bag, but my memory might be off. I passed and went with some palm fert at Lowes for $10 a bag.

Terry,

We have a place here called Orange County Farm Supply that is offering Apex Palm Plus (now called Best) for $39.99

[cencalpalmguy]

Oh yeah, the basic lutz palm spikes are 6-0-6 with minors like sulfur, iron, magnesium and manganese. I thought I had lost my palms in the 07 freeze. I put these spikes out the following spring and had good results by fall. They are now dark green and growing like weeds.

[Tyrone]

I use all of them, but the poll doesn't allow you to pick more than one.

Tyrone

[_Keith]

Had to check other as I use combinations of all of the above depending on individual plants and circumstances. I am convinced there is not one size fits all on this one.

[Kim]

Most of the above, but I have probably used more liquid than anything else (powder or granules mixed with water) so I voted for that. I like to be sure my palms get their micronutrients.

[kahili]

I checked other as I fert several different ways. All the palms in the ground get a dose of 6 month Multicote 19-6-12 in the late spring when the ground warms up, and here, in this zone, that will last for them until the weather starts to cool down. If I lived in a warmer zone, then I would give them two treatments. I also mulch alot around them.

For palms in containers, if they are in the grhouse for the winter, then they get hit with a liquid fert 20-10-20 once a wk at about 200 ppm. Once they go outside in late spring, then they get the Multicote fert-which is a slow release.

[Kostas]

Personally, i have not used much fertilizers till now,i have only fertilized 2 times at most in my 5 years of growing palms from seeds...But these times i did,i used old fish foods(the 1st time) and the last time which was just some months ago,i used an organic fertilizer made for citrus trees as palm special fertilizers are not availiable in Greece,nowhere...Also,i am all for organic so even if they were,i would only use them i case of deficiencies...

From now on however i plan on fertilizing regularly with the organic citrus fertilizer i have as it seems good and one of the reasons i wasnt fertilizing was also that i hadnt found a suitable,easy to use organic fertilizer while now i have

[Bags]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I figured a lot of people would use a combination of fertilizers, but wanted to know the main fertilizer people are using so only allowed checking one option. If I do start using a chemical fert i am still going to add lots of organics.

Joe what made you switch to organics and why do you use what you use? Have the results been any different since you switched?

Thanks, Aaron

[palmazon]

pigeon sh*t - I have a buddy who races and now I'm dialed into the local scene

the less concentrated formulas we use, the better in the long run - if you have any regard for future generations of palm lovers and can look beyond your own garden

[palmazon]

6:3:2 incidentally

[Jose Maria]

Hi friends,

Just like Tyrone, I use everything that can help....

Fast release fertilizer, humic acids, "kitchen organic matter", ...I even haul soil from 40 kilometers away to pot my palms because according to soilmaps, it´s the best soil around.And mix this one with volcanic ash, and so on, ....does not sound very scientific , sorry.In the end I´ll never know what ingredient worked the best...

Growing Palms is not only science, it´s also also art.

[joe_OC]

Hey Aaron,

I switched because I wanted to be more environmentally responsible.

I chose to go with humic acid because it makes the nutrients in the soil more available to palms/plants to take up. It also adds a lot of organics.

I have a friend that goes fishing quite a lot. He would bring home trucks full of fish when he went on his weekly fishing trips with his buddies to Mexico. He is also into palms. He told me in preparation for his garden, he dug up his soil four to six feet deep and buried six ft tunas into the soil. Anyway, his yard looks great.

Fish as a fertilizer was something I always believed in, but since I don't fish, I looked for a fish fertilizer. I have heard of bad experiences where the stuff was not stable and burned my friend's plants. Most of the stuff out there is cooked, which makes it smelly and unstable. When I was doing research, I found out that if the fish was cold processed, it would be much more stable and wouldn't stink as bad. I liked what I heard so I have been using it since.

Seaweed is supposed to help build the cellular walls of the palms/plants so that they can handle more adverse conditions. Anybody that buys from Jeff Marcus will here him preach about the benefits of seaweed.

I can't say that the palms are doing any better, but more importantly, I do not see them doing any worst. I will say that I have A LOT more worms, big worms, now than ever before, and greatly improved soil drainage.

[doubravsky]

I was doing a terrible job using spikes and blood meal and whatever I had,... until I switched to drip and bought an injector. Now I use Peter's Cal Mag 15-5-15 with the EZ-FLo injector on the lowest setting... I have three zones using about 6 lbs/ week in each zone. It seemed to really make a difference this year. And I don't have to think about it much.. which is important!

[joe_OC]

I was doing a terrible job using spikes and blood meal and whatever I had,... until I switched to drip and bought an injector. Now I use Peter's Cal Mag 15-5-15 with the EZ-FLo injector on the lowest setting... I have three zones using about 6 lbs/ week in each zone. It seemed to really make a difference this year. And I don't have to think about it much.. which is important!

Holy CRAP, Dave...

That's a lot of fertilizer you go through in a year. I hope you get the stuff in bulk, because the price for that stuff is not cheap...

[doubravsky]

I think the bag was like $ 30, and I was buying two a month.... But it made a really big difference. Everything greened up really nice... and the aroids and musas really went crazy.... and the hibiscus flowered more than ever before... so even though it was more $$ it was worth it.

[Wai`anae Steve]

Apex 13-5-8 Palm Special; for years.

I don't have any empty or full bags now, but I believe that is what I'm buying from Pacific Ag Supply in Campbell Indust. Park. $35 for 50 lbs.

Wai`anae Steve

[SubTropicRay]

Nutricote 18-6-12 with minor elements.

[spockvr6]

I use whatever is cheapest (which typically means fast release stuff) and usually mix in a bag of lime for every 3-4 bags of fertilizer. The lime is ~$4 for 50 lb and adds alot of Mg. I believe its 10-11% Mg.

[Gonzer]

Gro Power Plus w/humic acid. I use the turf blend (don't have the NPK right off hand), throw out handfuls around the bases and watch it work wonders. The absence of tip-browning on my lutescens is due to using it. Fact is, everything but the bromeliads get it. Those? They go Hung-Gree!

[rozpalm]

Nurserymen's sure gro or Lesco IFAS mix 8-2-12.

[osideterry]

Gonzer - Where do you get that stuff? (I'd rather not drive up to OC to buy Apex.)

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

For palms in containers I use Osmocote Plus 15-9-12 or 15-8-11 with Micros. I've used all longevities from 3-4 Month to 12-14 month. I work for Scotts so I get it from the company. The current prices are the highest in history due to global price pressure on raw materials (that why prices are through the roof on all fertilizers).

For palms in the ground I amend the soil with organic mulches, leaf litter, etc. Then I apply Dr Broschat's 8-2-12 which was developed to supplement micros and potassium that are (almost) universally deficient in FL soils. It wouldn't be logical to use that product in CA or S-TX unless the soils were similar.

One point that it really important to understand about fertilizers. Your soil type and inherit nutrient load determines what fertilizer will work best for you. The products that work in CA won't work worth a flip in FL because the soils are totally different. The reverse is also true. Thus, this discussion is really focused improperly. We should be saying "for those of you with sandy, well drained soil, what fertilizers do you use on your palms...and why".

Organic vs Inorganic: Coated, controlled release fertilizers (Osmocote, Nutricote, Apex) applied at the proper rate (and placed where the nutrients that emerge can be taken up by the target plants) are not much of a risk for pollution. Quickly available soluble fertilizers are more likely to pollute the environment whether they are "organic" or not (remember the spinach & tomato debachles). Don't take this out of context...I wholeheartedly encourage you to use products like manure to improve soils, and to consume something that could otherwise become a waste product.... It's just that for it really to be environmentally favorable it needs to be local. You can't ship cow manure from Wisconsin to Los Angelas without consuming a tremendous amount of fossil fuel. The "organic" vs "chemical" discussion often omits that part of the equation.

Humic acid isn't a fertilizer and neither are mycorhizza and many of the other additives marketed today. I think some of them are likely very good products (I hear professionals touting their value and that's why I believe this). I'm willing to try them and I'm interested in other people's experiences.

[Cycadcenter]

we're using Apex/Simplot 13-4-12 Palm Special for one reason .............IT'S FREE

Actually my brother in law is an engineer at their Modesto factory and they can get a few bags a year free.

[Bags]

For palms in containers I use Osmocote Plus 15-9-12 or 15-8-11 with Micros. I've used all longevities from 3-4 Month to 12-14 month. I work for Scotts so I get it from the company. The current prices are the highest in history due to global price pressure on raw materials (that why prices are through the roof on all fertilizers).

For palms in the ground I amend the soil with organic mulches, leaf litter, etc. Then I apply Dr Broschat's 8-2-12 which was developed to supplement micros and potassium that are (almost) universally deficient in FL soils. It wouldn't be logical to use that product in CA or S-TX unless the soils were similar.

One point that it really important to understand about fertilizers. Your soil type and inherit nutrient load determines what fertilizer will work best for you. The products that work in CA won't work worth a flip in FL because the soils are totally different. The reverse is also true. Thus, this discussion is really focused improperly. We should be saying "for those of you with sandy, well drained soil, what fertilizers do you use on your palms...and why".

Organic vs Inorganic: Coated, controlled release fertilizers (Osmocote, Nutricote, Apex) applied at the proper rate (and placed where the nutrients that emerge can be taken up by the target plants) are not much of a risk for pollution. Quickly available soluble fertilizers are more likely to pollute the environment whether they are "organic" or not (remember the spinach & tomato debachles). Don't take this out of context...I wholeheartedly encourage you to use products like manure to improve soils, and to consume something that could otherwise become a waste product.... It's just that for it really to be environmentally favorable it needs to be local. You can't ship cow manure from Wisconsin to Los Angelas without consuming a tremendous amount of fossil fuel. The "organic" vs "chemical" discussion often omits that part of the equation.

Humic acid isn't a fertilizer and neither are mycorhizza and many of the other additives marketed today. I think some of them are likely very good products (I hear professionals touting their value and that's why I believe this). I'm willing to try them and I'm interested in other people's experiences.

It does seem like there is no one best way to care for your plants, but the one thing that appears to be very important is adding organic material to your soil whether you use a chemical fertilizer or not. I have done some searches on organic vs chemical fertilizers and it is hard to find many people saying that chemical fertilizers are better than organic. The shipping is a consideration, but all of the organics I have used have been from a local source while most of the chemical fertilizers are not made localy.

Joe switched from chemical to organic and has not noticed any difference. If there were no difference or minimal difference I would definately stay with organics. Has any one else switched from one to the other? If you did was there a difference?

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Bags, do what you think is right. You need to be comfortable with your decisions. I feel "Organic" has become something of a faith because its not science based. I believe strongly in improving soil so where "Organic philosophy" and adding organic matter, and improving soils with other techniques overlap, we have common ground. Grow great palms and post pictures!!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Bags, do what you think is right. You need to be comfortable with your decisions. I feel "Organic" has become something of a faith because its not science based. I believe strongly in improving soil so where "Organic philosophy" and adding organic matter, and improving soils with other techniques overlap, we have common ground. Grow great palms and post pictures!!

[Walt]

Until natural gas (a prime ingredient in the production of nitrogen, as I have read) and gasoline and fuel oil went into the stratosphere, I was using Lesco 13-3-13-4.5 (magnesium); this contains some nitrogen and potassium in slow release form, making it more expensive. I was paying $16.00/50# bag and now it's $27.00/50# bag.

Only my local Home Depot sells it. Lowes sells something inferior. Now, even though gasoline and fuel oil has dropped by more than 1/2 what it was just months ago, the cost of fertilizer has not come down. I told the garden manager at Home Depot I refuse to pay the price.

Even plain old fast release 10-10-10 (with no minors at all) is selling for just over $20/40# bag! One year ago it was $8.00/40# bag.

I generally use a ton or more a year in fertilzer. This includes both my Lesco 13-3-13-4.5 and 10-10-10 or 6-6-6. But now I've cut way back and have actually stopped fertilizing some plants and shrubs. On my palms I've also cut back. However, I've been using lots of wood ash to fertilize my palms with and also to act as a lime substitute. My soil is extremely acid (pH of around 3.7 the last time I had it checked). The wood ash has a good amount of potassium and magnesium and virtually all the minor elements. It has little or no nitrogen, though.

So starting this February I will use some Lesco to get some nitrogen but the bulk of my fertilizer will be from wood ash (I do lots of burning of dead limbs, pine needles, pine cones, dead palm fronds, etc.). I also use dolimitic lime to get a good shot of magnesium, and lime is still relatively cheap.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Walt, some of the raw materials we (Scotts) purchase to create the fertilizer rose 800% between 10/1/07 and 9/30/08. Generally, however, the rise was approximately 50% overall. The prices for some commodity components has fallen, but not enough to matter yet. You can buy urea for $250-$350/ton right now, but fertilizer dealers already own a bunch at $800 and they can't expect a price break on inventory they already own. Its an incredibly difficult time in the fertilizer business and some of the players will not survive. Because of that incredible price spike and how the system is "clogged" with expensive material, many are projecting incredible shortages during the spring months. But we'll see. Things might work out OK. BTW, John Deere Landscapes purchased Lesco last year (totally unrelated to the fertilizer price spike). I think they are going to keep the brand, however. How has winter been in Lake Placid so far??

[Bags]

Keith,

I think you are right. At the end of the day there is nothing that can tell you the perfect way to do things. You have to just be as informed as possible and do what you think is right. For me it is going to be an ongoing process. Fortunately I have the next 50 plus years to try and figure it out. I do really appreciate your and everyones imput as there is a ton of experience and knowledge on this board. Aaron

[Walt]

Walt, some of the raw materials we (Scotts) purchase to create the fertilizer rose 800% between 10/1/07 and 9/30/08. Generally, however, the rise was approximately 50% overall. The prices for some commodity components has fallen, but not enough to matter yet. You can buy urea for $250-$350/ton right now, but fertilizer dealers already own a bunch at $800 and they can't expect a price break on inventory they already own. Its an incredibly difficult time in the fertilizer business and some of the players will not survive. Because of that incredible price spike and how the system is "clogged" with expensive material, many are projecting incredible shortages during the spring months. But we'll see. Things might work out OK. BTW, John Deere Landscapes purchased Lesco last year (totally unrelated to the fertilizer price spike). I think they are going to keep the brand, however. How has winter been in Lake Placid so far??

Keith,

I've had several spotty frosts already, but no damage to anything. Of course, my place is not representative of Lake Placid proper, as the town is 70 feet higher in elevation than my place. The town usually runs 5-8 degrees warmer than at my place on radiational cooling nights.

Yes, I figured the vendors are stuck with the higher priced fertilzers and it may be awhile before retail prices start coming back down. But I think with this downturned economy many folks will put far less emphasis on fertilizing their landscape, only exacerbating bringing down backed up fertilizer inventory.

If and when I do buy my spring fertilizer I will only buy fast release, so has to keep the cost down. It's one thing to need a bag or two a year of expensive fertilizer, but I need about one ton per year, and I'm not about to pay $27 for 50# (plus 7% sales tax to boot). I will resort to lots of wood ash and less expensive fast release fertilizer. I will fertilize more often but use less, so as to mitigate leaching in the soil.

[dogrocket]

Ive gone organic this year.Ive been using neptunes harvest[fish and seaweed blend] with good results.I pour a bucket on the roots,and the next time I spray the leaves and roots.My palms looked great until I got too lazy to fert.Ill give them a spray before the winter.The seaweed really protected them last winter,but it was fairly mild.

In the past I used lutz spikes and I thought they worked good.before that apex.

[Patrick]

Nice to be able to reciprocate the info.

Years ago, I had folks recommend using some stuff called Palm Plus and Palm Special (for the Phoenix's) made by Apex.

Then Simplot bought it out but kept the Apex name- for a while. NOW it's called Best, still made by Simplot. In Northern

California I get it from a company Called Crop Production Services. There MIGHT be a store in your region.

This stuff is THE BOMB for my queen palms- and all my other palms for that matter. I just always over fertilize my palms because I originally learned how to "fertilize" on queens- my first palms. It's great stuff and I'll stand by it.

Everyone else has pretty much said this and I just looked at the date on most of these posts, but oh well. I'm going to take some notes on what others are using.

[Al in Kona]

I use all of them, but the poll doesn't allow you to pick more than one.

Tyrone

The same for me. I use them all.

[DoomsDave]

I don't use chemical ferts at all.

Lookidat lookidat . . .

Structure is all, all is structure!

Amend.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I don't use chemical ferts at all.

Lookidat lookidat . . .

Structure is all, all is structure!

Amend.

That's my philosophy too, Dave. "Feed" the soil, not the plant. Healthy soil equals healthy plants. The one exception I make is to my big queens that only thrive with larger amounts of slow release palm food stakes. But that's the only exception to the rule. Otherwise the "rule" is lots of compost, mulch, and water period.