Palms in Madagascar

[bgl]

OK, here we go. Two photos of Ravenea sp. giant. Jeff's comment: "Ravenea sp Giant off road between Perenet and Tana". Philip Arrowsmith (IPS Director from Australia) and Jeff Marcus in the second photo.

[bgl]

Marojejya insignis. Jeff's comment: Marojejya insignis, including a large seedling in Andohahela Forest in far So.Madagascar. (And dinner break now - be patient! )

[Mike4284m]

Wow! Eat fast Bo!

[Jeff in St Pete]

Wow, thanks for the Marojejya insignis photos! I have one 3-leaf seedling that I am taking very good care of.

That Ravenea giant is spectacular.

Now hurry up with dinner! I want to see more photos!

[Urban Rainforest]

Those pics of Jeff in Madagascar are awesome. The Ravenea Giant is very aptly named. I know Bo likes his dessert so this could be awhile .

Stevo

[bgl]

Actually, what took a while was the fact that the season finale of "The Amazing Race" came on the minute I was done with dinner. And we all have our priorities!

But, let's get on with the show.

Jeff's comment for this photo: "John Dransfield excited to be in the presence of the rare Dypsis pachyramea near Tampolo, Cape Masoala Oct. 2008."

[bgl]

Jeff: "Suchin Marcus and Jeff Brusseau with Satranala decussilvae in the Tampolo Region of Cape Masoala."

[bgl]

Jeff: "This was ID'd as Dypsis bosseri in Analalafa Forest."

[bgl]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

[tropicalb]

wow.

i'm speechless.

[paulgila]

very cool.cooler than "cool."

[John in Andalucia]

Most of us can but dream of being on an expedition with people like Jeff and John, so the photos are an absolute gift.

[Kim]

These photos have me longing for Madagascar. I see hugging palms is a universal expression of joy. How could anyone not hug that Ravenea?

[Gtlevine]

I have seen photos of the whole trip from my friend Randy Moore and it was amazing. Randy did not have a photo of Dypsis Ovobontsira and that palm you posted Bo is outrageous!!!! I love the trunk and the way the crownshaft attaches, it is really like artwork. Now the question is when is someone going to get some real seeds of Ovobontsira into cultivation?, I have to have it.

Gary

[Jeff Searle]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

Bo, thanks for putting up some pictures of Jeff's trip. This palm is amazing, just beautiful. But...I notice you have three(3) question marks about it's true identity, according to John. So, even he's not 100% sure if this is the true D. ovobontsira, correct? Any other information from the "horse"s' (Jeff) mouth would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you,

Jeff

[surferjr]

I have seen photos of the whole trip from my friend Randy Moore and it was amazing. Randy did not have a photo of Dypsis Ovobontsira and that palm you posted Bo is outrageous!!!! I love the trunk and the way the crownshaft attaches, it is really like artwork. Now the question is when is someone going to get some real seeds of Ovobontsira into cultivation?, I have to have it.

Gary

Gary,

Don't these look very similar? AKA Dark Mealy

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/195512/

All the best,

clark

[DoomsDave]

Wow!

Great pics!

Mongo LIKE Madagascar Picture . . .. .

Hmm. I'll hug any palm, except for Acrocomias, Calamus, etc. . . . .

[Gtlevine]

I have seen photos of the whole trip from my friend Randy Moore and it was amazing. Randy did not have a photo of Dypsis Ovobontsira and that palm you posted Bo is outrageous!!!! I love the trunk and the way the crownshaft attaches, it is really like artwork. Now the question is when is someone going to get some real seeds of Ovobontsira into cultivation?, I have to have it.

Gary

Gary,

Don't these look very similar? AKA Dark Mealy

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/195512/

All the best,

clark

No, it does not look like the Dark Meallybug, but it does look like Bo's photo of Ovobontsira except that the trunk looks a little different.

Gary

[surferjr]

I have seen photos of the whole trip from my friend Randy Moore and it was amazing. Randy did not have a photo of Dypsis Ovobontsira and that palm you posted Bo is outrageous!!!! I love the trunk and the way the crownshaft attaches, it is really like artwork. Now the question is when is someone going to get some real seeds of Ovobontsira into cultivation?, I have to have it.

Gary

Gary,

Don't these look very similar? AKA Dark Mealy

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/195512/

All the best,

clark

No, it does not look like the Dark Meallybug, but it does look like Bo's photo of Ovobontsira except that the trunk looks a little different.

Gary

Gary,

This and so many have palms have been named and named again that it's hard to keep everyone on the same page.

Let me say it like this...do these 2 palms look the same?

Kind regards,

clark

[ellidro]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

WOW!! I want one too! Did anyone get seeds?

[Gtlevine]

I have seen photos of the whole trip from my friend Randy Moore and it was amazing. Randy did not have a photo of Dypsis Ovobontsira and that palm you posted Bo is outrageous!!!! I love the trunk and the way the crownshaft attaches, it is really like artwork. Now the question is when is someone going to get some real seeds of Ovobontsira into cultivation?, I have to have it.

Gary

Gary,

Don't these look very similar? AKA Dark Mealy

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/195512/

All the best,

clark

No, it does not look like the Dark Meallybug, but it does look like Bo's photo of Ovobontsira except that the trunk looks a little different.

Gary

Gary,

This and so many have palms have been named and named again that it's hard to keep everyone on the same page.

Let me say it like this...do these 2 palms look the same?

Kind regards,

clark

Clark, I would say the palm you posted is Dypsis Ovobontsira like what Bo posted. The trunk color and slight differences are not too significant. I can definitely say the palm you posted does not look like any Dypsis Dark Mealybugs I have ever seen.

Gary

[John Dransfield]

I feel I must comment on the so-called ovobontsira (BTW, it's great to see these pics posted - makes me feel quite nostalgic for our wonderful trip)

Dypsis ovobontsira is known with certainty from just one collection (herbarium) that Henk Beentje and I made in the Mananara Avaratra Biosphere reserve. We only saw one plant. It was distinctive in being moderate sized, like a rather dwarf D. lastelliana, with very regular leaflets. The sheath had dense brown and white scales. Most distinctive were the seeds with very neat rumination. We couldn't match it with any other palm, so described it as new. Despite lots of plants being imported and grown as ovobontsira, I have never ever been convinced that what I have seen in cultivation anywhere near matches what Henk and I saw. With Jeff in the field this October, we were impressed with this really very smart palm in the photo in Analalafa, and I ran through all the possibilities of what it might be. One thought was "could this be the elusive ovobontsira? Hence the three ? I would hate for it to be for ever engraved in stone that the palm in Jeff's photo is the real ovobontsira because we are not sure! (a typical taxonomist's reply!). Analalafa, where the photo was taken, could so easily have disappeared and it's wonderful that it is set to become a strict nature reserve. When this happens, the palms will be protected and plants like this mystery then will have the chance to develop to maturity and we may actually find out what they really are! Incidentally, Jeff's picture of Dypsis bosseri is of a rather small individual - it can be much beefier than this and then really looks distinctive.

John

[bgl]

John,

Great to see your comments here, and I know they will be appreciated by everybody. And Jeff has promised more photos...!

Bo-Göran

[PALM MOD]

John,

Great to see your comments here, and I know they will be appreciated by everybody. And Jeff has promised more photos...!

Bo-Göran

John,

I agree with Bo. It's a treat to get the definitive word on Dypsis which oftentimes seems so lacking with these hard to pin down species.

[simona]

Most of us can but dream of being on an expedition with people like Jeff and John, so the photos are an absolute gift.

Exactly my thoughts....

Thank you!

[Tyrone]

Thanks John for being part of the discussions here. Your comments are always appreciated.

Best regards

Tyrone

[surferjr]

Thanks John,

So I guess we can rule out that Dypsis ovobontsira is not being propagate at present

Thanks again for the invaluable info!

Happy growings,

clark

[Gtlevine]

Thanks John, I am hoping you write a new P.O.M. book to update with all the information accumilated over the past several years.

Gary

[phatmiata]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

DO WANT!!!!!

[rafiki]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

Bo, thanks for putting up some pictures of Jeff's trip. This palm is amazing, just beautiful. But...I notice you have three(3) question marks about it's true identity, according to John. So, even he's not 100% sure if this is the true D. ovobontsira, correct? Any other information from the "horse"s' (Jeff) mouth would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you,

Jeff

Great topic and wonderfully opening the jungle of Mad palm identification! But is it D. ovobontsira? The true sp. described in POM has spirally arranged leaves. The palm illustrated is described as tristichous. Without flowering data nothing much has changed other than another wonderful and beautiful palm on the page and a very potent and respectable input. This palm species has a long history if 7 years can be described as such! If you have a copy of 'Wodyetia' vol. 7 (2003) issue 3 the same palm is shown on the back page. One of Alfred's collectors took this pic in late 2001 in Mananara. Alfred called this palm 'red boresy'. I have no idea why. Nor am I sure that it was 'in Mananara'. Last year Alfred showed me a photo of an adult of the same sp. in full fruit. Eventually I negotiated the sale of 20 seeds from which I germinated 10 seedlings. One or two are in the hands of local collectors as Dypsi sp. Baron. No relation to D. baronii.

The putative Dypsis bosseri identification is equally interesting. I have this palm as Dypsis sp. aff. coriacea. It is not coriacea and my 3m specimen has yet to flower but the leaflet colour and arrangement is similar to D. bosseri and the leaves are leathery and strongly dentate.

Great to see the Ravenea sp. 'Giant' back in the news! We found this palm in '99 and it is yet to be described but whatthehell....taxonomy is often a matter of opportunity! We have checked some locals for tree climbing skills and they are as rare as here in OZ! There is another 'largest palm of all' of this species just east of the main small group that is 30m tall. We would like this species to be called the Sentinel Palm...because of the massive yet isolated role it plays in the local environment. If you are lucky...seeds from this species were called Ravenea sp. Manambato.

Have had a very long conversation with Jeff M. and it is hard to describe the degree of enthusiasm that he has retained! Overwhelming? And rightly so! The photo of Phil Arrowsmith and Jeff are worth bottling!

Finally...John D... you have germinated fresh enthusiasms and the new POM must be in your sights.!

Cheers! Bill.

[surferjr]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

Bo, thanks for putting up some pictures of Jeff's trip. This palm is amazing, just beautiful. But...I notice you have three(3) question marks about it's true identity, according to John. So, even he's not 100% sure if this is the true D. ovobontsira, correct? Any other information from the "horse"s' (Jeff) mouth would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you,

Jeff

Great topic and wonderfully opening the jungle of Mad palm identification! But is it D. ovobontsira? The true sp. described in POM has spirally arranged leaves. The palm illustrated is described as tristichous. Without flowering data nothing much has changed other than another wonderful and beautiful palm on the page and a very potent and respectable input. This palm species has a long history if 7 years can be described as such! If you have a copy of 'Wodyetia' vol. 7 (2003) issue 3 the same palm is shown on the back page. One of Alfred's collectors took this pic in late 2001 in Mananara. Alfred called this palm 'red boresy'. I have no idea why. Nor am I sure that it was 'in Mananara'. Last year Alfred showed me a photo of an adult of the same sp. in full fruit. Eventually I negotiated the sale of 20 seeds from which I germinated 10 seedlings. One or two are in the hands of local collectors as Dypsi sp. Baron. No relation to D. baronii.

The putative Dypsis bosseri identification is equally interesting. I have this palm as Dypsis sp. aff. coriacea. It is not coriacea and my 3m specimen has yet to flower but the leaflet colour and arrangement is similar to D. bosseri and the leaves are leathery and strongly dentate.

Great to see the Ravenea sp. 'Giant' back in the news! We found this palm in '99 and it is yet to be described but whatthehell....taxonomy is often a matter of opportunity! We have checked some locals for tree climbing skills and they are as rare as here in OZ! There is another 'largest palm of all' of this species just east of the main small group that is 30m tall. We would like this species to be called the Sentinel Palm...because of the massive yet isolated role it plays in the local environment. If you are lucky...seeds from this species were called Ravenea sp. Manambato.

Have had a very long conversation with Jeff M. and it is hard to describe the degree of enthusiasm that he has retained! Overwhelming? And rightly so! The photo of Phil Arrowsmith and Jeff are worth bottling!

Finally...John D... you have germinated fresh enthusiasms and the new POM must be in your sights.!

Cheers! Bill.

Very interesting Bill thanks for the history story!! Apparently the true D. ovobontsira has not stood up!

Might you have a picture of a Dypsis sp. Baron by chance?

Happy Holidays,

clark

[rafiki]

Jeff: "this was called Dypsis ovobontsira ??? by John Dransfield..this is not what is being called Dark Mealy-bug..Very tritichous crownshaft. Black ringed trunk,"

And that concludes the presentation for tonight! If everybody behaves, Jeff may have more photos next weekend. That's right ONE WEEK from now!

Bo, thanks for putting up some pictures of Jeff's trip. This palm is amazing, just beautiful. But...I notice you have three(3) question marks about it's true identity, according to John. So, even he's not 100% sure if this is the true D. ovobontsira, correct? Any other information from the "horse"s' (Jeff) mouth would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you,

Jeff

Great topic and wonderfully opening the jungle of Mad palm identification! But is it D. ovobontsira? The true sp. described in POM has spirally arranged leaves. The palm illustrated is described as tristichous. Without flowering data nothing much has changed other than another wonderful and beautiful palm on the page and a very potent and respectable input. This palm species has a long history if 7 years can be described as such! If you have a copy of 'Wodyetia' vol. 7 (2003) issue 3 the same palm is shown on the back page. One of Alfred's collectors took this pic in late 2001 in Mananara. Alfred called this palm 'red boresy'. I have no idea why. Nor am I sure that it was 'in Mananara'. Last year Alfred showed me a photo of an adult of the same sp. in full fruit. Eventually I negotiated the sale of 20 seeds from which I germinated 10 seedlings. One or two are in the hands of local collectors as Dypsi sp. Baron. No relation to D. baronii.

The putative Dypsis bosseri identification is equally interesting. I have this palm as Dypsis sp. aff. coriacea. It is not coriacea and my 3m specimen has yet to flower but the leaflet colour and arrangement is similar to D. bosseri and the leaves are leathery and strongly dentate.

Great to see the Ravenea sp. 'Giant' back in the news! We found this palm in '99 and it is yet to be described but whatthehell....taxonomy is often a matter of opportunity! We have checked some locals for tree climbing skills and they are as rare as here in OZ! There is another 'largest palm of all' of this species just east of the main small group that is 30m tall. We would like this species to be called the Sentinel Palm...because of the massive yet isolated role it plays in the local environment. If you are lucky...seeds from this species were called Ravenea sp. Manambato.

Have had a very long conversation with Jeff M. and it is hard to describe the degree of enthusiasm that he has retained! Overwhelming? And rightly so! The photo of Phil Arrowsmith and Jeff are worth bottling!

Finally...John D... you have germinated fresh enthusiasms and the new POM must be in your sights.!

Cheers! Bill.

Very interesting Bill thanks for the history story!! Apparently the true D. ovobontsira has not stood up!

Might you have a picture of a Dypsis sp. Baron by chance?

Happy Holidays,

clark

Clark! Will post pic of 'Baron' seedling later this week. Glad you liked the palm histories!!! eh?

I do not know the ID of this palm species and the only pic I have of D. ovobontsira is a mental one ...assembled from the data in POM......! Maybe next year I may get the chance to see the real thing. From what I hear...JD's tour of Mad was a huge success and this is great news!

Cheers! Bill.

[John Dransfield]

A few comments on Dypsis bosseri. I described this species as new based on a herbarium specimen in Paris collected by Bosser near Mahavelona. It was known from a single collection until I refound it beside the road to Analalafa in 1999. THe type specimen looks like Dypsis hildebrandtii on steroids - it has a very large almost rectangular entire bifid leaf of good firm almost leathery texture. In the same population I saw entire bifid forms and forms with several broad pinnae, all obviously the same species. What we saw in Analalafa this year is all part of the range of variation in this species. Clayton sent me pictures of what he grows as D. bosseri and I have to say I am not at all convinced that they belong to this species. Indeed I have seen no material in cultivation that really matches this sp apart from plants in Jeff Marcus' garden. The name coriacea has been mentioned appropos this sp - Dypsis coriacea is a completely different palm - see the pictures in POM and the field guide. It has a rather narrow leaf of an astonishing leathery texture, young leaves are green (never reddish tinged) and the inflorescence is a spike and there are 6 stamens. I cannot recall seeing this in cultivation anywhere (although it's possible Jeff Marcus may have it and I have forgotten already in the kaleidoscope of wonderful palms in his garden0

And comment to Bill - one day we shall describe the sentinel palm - I am convinced it's new, but I suspect we have also collected it elsewhere (in Masoala for example)and confused it with Ravenea robustior. It's on my list of things to do and now that Genera Palmarum is published I cannot hide behind that excuse.

John

[rafiki]

A few comments on Dypsis bosseri. I described this species as new based on a herbarium specimen in Paris collected by Bosser near Mahavelona. It was known from a single collection until I refound it beside the road to Analalafa in 1999. THe type specimen looks like Dypsis hildebrandtii on steroids - it has a very large almost rectangular entire bifid leaf of good firm almost leathery texture. In the same population I saw entire bifid forms and forms with several broad pinnae, all obviously the same species. What we saw in Analalafa this year is all part of the range of variation in this species. Clayton sent me pictures of what he grows as D. bosseri and I have to say I am not at all convinced that they belong to this species. Indeed I have seen no material in cultivation that really matches this sp apart from plants in Jeff Marcus' garden. The name coriacea has been mentioned appropos this sp - Dypsis coriacea is a completely different palm - see the pictures in POM and the field guide. It has a rather narrow leaf of an astonishing leathery texture, young leaves are green (never reddish tinged) and the inflorescence is a spike and there are 6 stamens. I cannot recall seeing this in cultivation anywhere (although it's possible Jeff Marcus may have it and I have forgotten already in the kaleidoscope of wonderful palms in his garden0

And comment to Bill - one day we shall describe the sentinel palm - I am convinced it's new, but I suspect we have also collected it elsewhere (in Masoala for example)and confused it with Ravenea robustior. It's on my list of things to do and now that Genera Palmarum is published I cannot hide behind that excuse.

John

Thanks John! Re the D. bosseri...did anyone in the group take a photo of the stem? Is it spotted or streaked with red/brown scales? Perhaps Bo could ask Jeff M if he has any other pics of this species. Bo?...thanks in advance!

Good to hear that the sentinel Ravenea is on the list for description!

Cheers!! Bill.

[bgl]

Time for another installment, and more excitement! I just received 20 photos from Jeff, and will be posting them over the next half hour, or however long it takes me. I will post them species by species so there will be more than one photo in most posts. First, Ravenea musicalis:

Jeff's comments:

Photo 1: Ravenea musicalis growing between Ft.Dauphin and Sainteluce

Photo 2: Ravenea musicalis growing in river with flowers and unripe seed in area out of Ft.Dauphin onthe way to Sainteluce

(Bill - will ask Jeff if he has any more D. bosseri photos)

[bgl]

(All comments for these photos, and all subsequent photos are Jeff's)

Photo 1: Dypsis prestoniana off road out of Ft Dauphin..this what is referred to in California as Big Curly.

Photo 2: Dypsis prestoniana, looking up trunk with spent infructescence off the road out of Ft Dauphin, very southern Madagascar. This what I have flowering in my garden now that I purchased as Big Curly from Mardy Darian.

[bgl]

Photo 1: Ravenea rivularis in fruit out of Isalo Madagascar.

Photo 2: This is a very threatened population of Ravenea rivularis grown in a river with Malagasy people sifting for Sapphires..This was out of the Sapphire town of Ilaka . This photo was taken from our van and temperature outside was in the mid 90's fahrenheit.

[bgl]

Photo 1: This is Bismarckia nobilis in habitat out of Isalo which is in south central Madagascar.

Photo 2: Bismarckia in habitat with unusual rock formation..there were thousands of trees in the area, some just burned by a forest fire but still alive. Most of them were the silver form but there were green ones also.

[surferjr]

(All comments for these photos, and all subsequent photos are Jeff's)

Photo 1: Dypsis prestoniana off road out of Ft Dauphin..this what is referred to in California as Big Curly.

Photo 2: Dypsis prestoniana, looking up trunk with spent infructescence off the road out of Ft Dauphin, very southern Madagascar. This what I have flowering in my garden now that I purchased as Big Curly from Mardy Darian.

Thanks for the post Bo & Jeff,

Who would have though such a small seedling and slow grower would get so massive?!

Cheers,

clark

[bgl]

Photo 1: Dypsis onilahensis in habitat at Isalo National Park. This is the weeping form. Grown in intense sun. Again, in this area we were hiking in temperatures in the mid 90's fahrenheit.

Photo 2: D. onilahensis in habitat Isalo National Park.