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Posted

I've read on different aricles, some nurseryman use nutrient foliar spray, on regular basis. Do you know any schedule or any advise on this matter?

I want to rectify some chlorosis problems, on different south american species(probaly due to waterlogg). I grow the palms in artificial sphagnum peat moss mix, feed regularly with soluble fertiliser, in greenhouse here in Montréal.

I don't have this problem with Calyptrogyne ghiesbreghtiana, Geonoma congesta and Cryosophila warsweczii. But on Syagrus orinonerus, Raphia taedigera and Oenocarpus bacaba, it's an horror story. I have made my first spray this morning with my recipe mix (urea, Mg, Fe, Mn Zn). Wish it works!

Thank you for your advise.

Patrick

Posted

Patrick, when you say that you are using peat moss in a mix, is that your own mix or a peatbased soiless mix? The reason that I ask is that a common mistake people make is to take straight peat and mix it in with other material and not add lime. Peat has a very low PH-around 3.3 or so, and it will block certain micronutrients from getting to the plant. Soiless mixes with peat always have lime added to raise the PH to about 6.2 or so.

Most soluble fertilizers have all the micronutrients in them, although in different amts. Usually, if a plant is lacking in a micronutrient, it is generally because the PH is too high or too low.

I always add extra perlite to any of my mixes for palms, plumerias etc, really increases drainage.

Also, if you are only using soluble fert, you want to be careful to cut back on watering so as to not leach out the TDS (total dissolved salts). When I am just using soluble ferts, I fert once a wk.

Posted

Thanks kahili, right i use a peatmoss soiless mix (BM6 from Berger), and don't add perlite. I find it a bit slow to dry. It's not the best season to grow palms here. Maybe it's part of my problem? Tomorrow i'll take a look at my pH and salinity, i will let you know.

I use fertigation, every watering with 150 ppm of N, but i take great care to leach the soil on regular basis. I'm a bit afraid of salt burn.

But right now, some of my seedlings are in bad shape, its for that i use foliar spray. I read an advise who tell once a month application??? Any advice?

Posted

Hard to say without knowing the PH-let us know what the PH and EC level is when you do the tests out of curiousity. Not sure how often you are doing the constant feed, but 150 ppm each time you water at this time of year may be a lot, esp if you are not watering without the fert ( not sure if you are leaching with just water, or doing the constant feed only as leaching as well as fertilizing)

Considering that it is winter, and your soil is not drying out that well, I would think about switching to maybe 200 ppm each wk or every other week and watering once inbetween and seeing if that will help with the drainage. I know in the winter, this can be an issue (I know that this isn't what you asked about...sorry, I don't mean to tell you what to do :), just a thought )

I sometimes will add a small handful of bloodmeal to a palm if I see any chlorosis and I know that the N levels are ok, and that helps.

Posted

Thank you for your suggestion, that help me to find the best solution for my environnement. Right now i use 150 ppm for five days and three days with just water, every week and when the plants needs it (soil 2/3 dry). When i'm watering with fetilisation or just water. I leach the soil.

Here my results for some samples:

Species pH EC

Bactris gasipaes 6.06 1.25

Cryosophila warsceweczii 5.80 1.89

Euterpe edulis 5.82 1.36

Manicaria saccifera 5.84 1.71

Syagrus orinocensis 5.73 2.00

I find this results not bad. I use Peters Excel 21-5-20. I'm thinking to move for a tropical foliage formulation 24-8-16?

For my foliar nutrient spray, i'm thinking to use it once a month ???

Posted

Hi Patrick, the PH looks ok-a little low, but just by some 1/10's, so that bad. I am surprised that the EC #'s are so low considering how much you are fertilizing. Not that the #'s are low, in and by itself-just for the amt that you are putting on.

Before I go further, let me clarify a few things.

These are in one gallon containers?

You are fertilizing at 150 ppm 5 days in a row?

Watering ( to leach out-i.e. running the water thru the container until it runs out the bottom) 3 days in a row, after 5 days in a row of fertilizing?

Whats the temp in the grhouse at night, and is it getting full sun in the day?

Assuming that the temps are 60 or above at night, and that the answers above are yes, I think that there might be a better way to get fert to your palms-esp in the winter. I think that fertilizing and leaching as much as you are is just wasting the fert, and in the process, overwatering the palms. Since its winter, and the sun is so weak up there at this time of year, I don't think the palms need that much in the way of fert right now. I think that if they are growing at all right now, that once a week at 200-250 ppm will let the palms have a chance to drain and dry out some, and maybe watering once inbetween the wkly fert. If they are growing, 200 ppm will not build up the salts because the palm is using up the fert (again-if they are growing), and the watering inbetween will help to leach out some of the salts. The way you are doing it seems like a waste of fert, and too much watering (by both the fert and the watering). Palms do pretty well being kept on the dry side in the winter. I have a lot of palms that I don't even fert at all in the winter.

Concerning the micronutrient foliar spray-I would think that the palm is going to utilize it better by taking it up through the roots, longterm. If I thought that a palm was lacking in a micronutrient, I would try to add it as a topdress-i.e a small handful of epsom salts for the magnesium etc.

About the fert that you are using, or thinking of switching to-I would definitely use a fert that has a higher ratio of nitrate nitrogen to the ammoniacal/urea as nitrate nitrogen is better for plants in a soiless media (to avoid ammoniacal toxicity-esp in cooler temps, urea converts to ammoniacal), and the nitrate nitrogen will help some in raising the PH. Also a base fert as opposed to a acidic fert will help with raising the PH some. I don't think its that low, or a problem, but I wouldn't want to see it go much lower on some of them.

When I liquid feed mine, I just use a 20-10-20, because thats what I have in the injector already, but when I use a slow release in the spring, i use a Multicote 19-6-12, and I add a few micronutrients as needed.

Posted

You guys seem to have this subject covered pretty well but....

Palm leaves are VERY waxy. They do not absorb nutrients through them very well at all.

On the other hand palm roots do a great job of absorbing nutrients. If you want to get the best results for your money and effort drench the soil with your ferts.

In cold and low sun times of the year even the roots are SLOW to absorb. Do you use artificial light and heat? This may help more than anything? I can't say for sure as I am planting in South Florida where we don't have these concerns.

I DIG PALMS

Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.

305-345-8918

https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms

Posted

Hi Patrick and friends,

Even with years of experience in growing palms in Costa Rica( once my Bactris plantation dried out during El Niño), I can only offer some ideas, no recipies.

You worried about waterlogging:Many of the palms here grow in the wild in a permanent waterlogged environment, at the same time the same palms grow equally well on limestone outcroppings: Cryosophila, Geonoma, Bactris....

Here in Costa Rica we do foliar analysis but only in large comercial plantations(african palm), this gives an indication of which elements might be low or missing. But, again...you can buy a lot of fertilizer with the cost of an analysis.

In the case of Bactris, it has been proven they benefit from root symbiotic fungi.These ("micorhizas "in spanish) improve absorption of nutrients.Probably other palms benefit just as well.

I also agree with Ken Johnson, that foliar fertilizers are expensive, more cost -effective is putting the fertilizer in the soil.

The crop where I would always recomend foliar fertilizer is pineapple, and bromeliads in general.

The pH values you mention are within range for optimum results( if it were in CR..)

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Posted
  Ken Johnson said:
You guys seem to have this subject covered pretty well but....

Palm leaves are VERY waxy. They do not absorb nutrients through them very well at all.

On the other hand palm roots do a great job of absorbing nutrients. If you want to get the best results for your money and effort drench the soil with your ferts.

In cold and low sun times of the year even the roots are SLOW to absorb. Do you use artificial light and heat? This may help more than anything? I can't say for sure as I am planting in South Florida where we don't have these concerns.

Ken is a sage, and his observations are the same as mine, so, he's an Uber Palm Sage! (Sounds like a salad . . . .)

Follow his advice!

Foliar sprays of any kind never made any sense to me at all.

And DON'T use peat, unless you've got a bog nearby.

When it's dry, it's the devil :rage: to wet again, and I mean seriously . . . .

Seriously!

ack!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted (edited)

Dear Patrick and Ken,

The underside of the foliage is best capable of absorbing food, a fact most people are not aware of. I just encountered a transplanted trachy with a very bad (virtually non existing) root system. Foliar feeding seems to be the best option in such a case, because the palm needs nutritients to recover.

Maybe strange to say but a good and easy way to feed your plants is by spraying watered down beer on the underside of the foliage.

Beer has the following ingredients:

- Vitamins: B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, H.

- minerals: Calcium, Chlorine, Iron, Potassium, Copper, Magnesium, Manganese, Natrium, Phosphor, Sulphur, Zinc.

- Sugars

- Proteïns, build up from Amino acids.

Also, beer contains Hops. Hops contains a lot of auxin. Auxin is a plant hormone regulating (or rather stimulating) root growth. Auxin is soluble in water and thus in beer.

In olden days, watered down beer was sprayed on foliage plants, to give them a more healthy colour. Manganese, Magnesium and Iron are very important for foliar plants, apart from other ingredients ofcourse.

I use watered down beer as an extra feed.

The best palm feeding for me has been lawn fertilizer, because grass has basically the same needs as a palm tree, how strange this may seem. Both are foliar plants. The lawn fertilizer i use contains Mycorrhiza. Mycorrhiza attach themselves to the roots of your plant/palm and extend the root system and make ingredients better available for the host plant. It doesn't do any damage to your plant, it just happens to help them.

Greetings,

Henri

Edited by HKO2008

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