Do you water into the crown?

[BS Man about Palms]

I marked it today, we'll see if it keeps growing fine. (Haven't sprayed fungicide yet)

Hey! I just noticed, for those of you that have been here, I intend to plant the OCWS about 12' to the left of where its sitting in the picture on post#38!

[John Case]

I avoid watering the crown, if possible, on the Washingtonia, Butia, and Brahea, but don't care about the others. I think it makes a difference as to which palms you are raising.

[Kathryn]

I only water my yard if it has not rained in over two or three weeks. I don't usually water when we are having cold spells - temps in the 30's (0 to 4ºC). I don't avoid watering the crown during any time of the year.

[palmcurry]

I kinda water everything while being aware of where the species comes from and season. I soak all of my Caryotas since it originates from South East tropical Asia - a wet place with lots of rainfall. My wife once pointed out something she read that water drops in the noon-time cause the suns light to magnify on the leaf /frond which causes damage...so if I soak the whole plant, I do it in the morning or night. Here in California everything drys up quick. In winter I water very little.

[PalmGuyWC]

Most of my palms are so tall that they never get water in the crown unless it's from rain in the Winter. One of my problems is having it rain and then freeze at night. If there is standing water in the crown, the ice can make a ring around the emerging spear. I've had this happen even with Butias, but it's kind of rare.

If I use a sprinkler in the summer where water gets in the crown, I do it early in the morning and then the afternoon heat evaporates all the water. I'm particularly carefull that the Parajubaeas dry out before nightfall.

I had a Brahea armata over 35 years old and with several feet of woody trunk develop a crown problem this last spring. I did nothing and it sat for awhile, and then grew some very deformed, twisted fronds. It's grown out of it and the new fronds are normal size. I have never had this happen before. I hardly have to water in the winter time, because after a couple of rains the soil remains moist until the warmth of spring.

Dick

[Big Tex]

Matt, have you read this article before? It was written by Palmbob and talks a little about watering with rainwater vs. tap water in the crown. Nothing too specific but interesting nonetheless.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/1376

Geoff Stein (PalmBob) always has some very good advice. I like to rinse the fronds off (wash their face) . We have quite a bit of air polution here in Houston and on those days I think it may be beneficial to wash it off.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Matty,

This poll does not really work for my answer. I do avoid watering into the crowns, but occasionally, especially when it does not rain for a while, I like to give everything a good shower. So even though I do avoid watering in into the crown, there are occasions where I will water as normal, then give the palm a shower just like the rains its used to. Perhaps another choice would have been better for me personally would have been "I avoid watering into the crowns, except on some occasions" or something like that. It's not a regular occurrence but I will do it intentionally now and then.

[Davidl]

I only worry about water getting in the crown when its below 60 degrees.

[Geoff]

For those who did not feel like reading my article linked above about watering palms, there was one paragraph in it that specifically discusses this crown watering. I don't know if I am just the most unlucky palm grower there is, but I don't think so as I have seen plenty of cases of bud rot from crown watering in other gardens (most notably in Huntington Gardens). But, as I said in the article, there are some species or categories of palms that are much more sensitive to this bud damage than others, and after growing hundreds and hundreds of palms, and watering them carelessly for over 15 years, I have learned that there are definitely palms you do NOT want to water in their crowns in the cooler times of the year (rarely do have problems with crown watering in summer).

These palms include ALL pinnate non-crownshafted palms (at least all the ones I can grow in this icky inland southern California climate). This includes Butias, Syagrus, Phoenix, Howeas, Jubaeas, Parajubaeas, Raveneas etc. I have rotted and killed at least one of each of these this way, and some of these I have killed many more than just one (at least 3 Butias, 2 Syagrus... some seem less senstive than others, dozens of Phoenix, about a half dozen Howeas (note: seedlings seem much less sensitive than do older palms), 3 Parajubaeas (sigh), 2 Jubaeas and several Majesty palms and one R glauca). I have NEVER killed or injured a crownshafted palm with crown watering, and believe me, I have watered plenty of Kings, Rhopalostylis, Dypsis and Chamaedoreas this way and never had a single one rot on me (not from this at least).

This crown watering taboo I have self imposed also includes some palmate species, notably the blue, arid-climate ones (Bismarckias do NOT seem to be affected adversely by crown watering)... this includes Nannorhops, Chamaerops (green ones also are sensitive to crown rot, by the way, but the cerifera variety is ultimately sensitive and I have rotted multiple heads with my garden sprinklers... so no more garden sprinklers), blue Braheas and blue Livistonas (and losing one of those is a REAL drag). Never had a problem overhead watering of Washingtonias, Livistonas that are not blue, Sabals etc.

Probably one of the most commonly killed palms by overhead crown watering are the Phoenix roebelleniis, which I have seen many rot in many local gardens from lawn sprinklers (these palms are often low enough to be affected this way).

As I also said in my article, there is definitely a huge difference between rain water and tap water... I have learned this to be true with other types of plants as well (I grow a lot of cacti and succulents) and some of these are also extremely sensitive to crown watering, though much less so by rainwater. Many of these plants are reluctant to be crown watered ANY time of year, some more so when it's hot than when it's cold... no idea why other than they are plants that are from areas where there are no summer rains (Echeverias are high on this list, as are many aloe and agave species). Anyway, this is all observation, no scientific fact... would love to hear more about others experience with this.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Matt - I try to avoid it as she gets upset

But seriously i try to avoid it that why i use an extensive drip system.

[Erik]

Geoff,

this resurrected old thread let me to your article. Great! I'm a novice to palms (3 years) and so learned a lot.

Like you, I prefer the hose. I tell me wife it is "recreational watering" when she asks why I don't just use the sprinkler. She installed an overhead misting system on the patio last week (it is very hot, and water is cheap in Oklahoma) and the potted Chameadorea love it. Thanks again. --Erik

[velutina]

When it's 110F, I don't think it matters. I have always watered leaves/crown and have never had issues.

[ghar41]

Since there is no rain here in the Summer I intentionally spray the dust and dirt off of the leaves of any palm I can reach with the spray nozzle of my hose....about every 2 or 3 weeks. I dont know if this is what your looking for but I definitely spray into the crown of all of my palms....with the exception of the Parajubaeas, which receive no water on the crowns or trunks during the hot summer.

[mnorell]

I'm definitely of the school that, since Mother Nature feels it's fine to water into the crown, so am I. As far as mortality goes, I think that only an otherwise compromised palm, by either freeze damage or some other weakness, will allow fungus, bacteria or other such nasties to get a foothold and enjoy the water in the crown.

We get an average of 63" a year here, evenly distributed throughout the year, so I only water newly establishing plants or during extended droughts...and I only cringe with rain after a bad freeze (like this year!), and dump some hydrogen peroxide into the crown of damaged palms for added protection. In fact, my small, more tender palms, including seedlings, spend the winter not only with water but also mud and mulch in their tiny crowns, as I mulch liberally in advance of cold. They don't seem to mind one bit. I found out quite by accident that Livistona chinensis has no problem at all being a complete aquatic...as I have two multi-planted pots that I set into larger non-draining urns. These clumps are usually completely submerged, buds and all, in water unless I remember to drain them, and lo and behold, they thrive! Note also that the best survivors in the wake of Katrina in New Orleans were palms. For the most part they did beautifully sitting underwater, sometimes crowns and all.

When I lived in SoCal I also never worried about watering into the crown, and don't remember any ill effects. During Santa Anas, I would water every surface possible just to raise the humidity a bit.

Bo and Jeff Marcus I'm sure could easily corroborate that there's probably constant water in every crown in such climes as Puna, or even at the slightly drier Lyon Arboretum up in Manoa, or various other muddy, soggy rainforest areas, except during extraordinary droughts. Obviously in California this would probably not be the case! And I agree with Scott that municipal water supplies are horrible due to the various salts, chlorine, fluoride, etc. though I think they are probably as bad for the roots as they may be inside the crown, especially in dry climates where the soil isn't leached by rainwater regularly. I hate using the stuff at all!