hardiest caryota

[gilles06]

Hi all,

I would like to know which caryota is the cold hardiest "himalaya" or ochlandra. Is Ochlandra ok in full sun in mediteranean climate?

I have a young caryota sp himalya in full sun and i am surprised how healthy it is. It is about 5 or 6 years old and it is very fast. Is ochlandra fast and sun hardy?

Ciao.

Gilles06.

[paulgila]

thats a nice looking caryota.i am not sure about the cold-hardiness,but they should all do well in sun except c.mitis.

[Caryota_gigas]

How cold are we talking? Many will take a good amount of cold, and frost.

[paulgila]

the caryota in my garden saw temps in mid-low 20s in '07 for at least 3 consecutive nights.they were defoliated but have recovered.the c,mitis lost a trunk here & there.

i guess i DID know something about the cold-hardiness!

[epicure3]

The only ones I would stay away from is Caryota No and mitis.

[MattyB]

The problem I've discovered with Caryota is trying to figure out exactly what you're growing. No one seems to know exactly which is which for certain, and they're often mislabled.

[SubTropicRay]

C. obtusa (old C. gigas) has had long term success in central Florida.

[amazon exotics]

epicure Whats wrong with caryota "no"

[Caryota_gigas]

Caryota no is not cold hardy. I would go for C. obtusa, C. ochlandra and if you can get them, try "mystery" and "solitaire" as sold by RPS, they all take frost at my place with minimal damage. "solitaire" and C.obtusa (C. gigas) seem to do the best for me in cold frosty conditions.

[Tala]

pretty much all of the more common species are relatively "cold-hardy" once they get some size to them. I've always hypothesized its due to the sugar build-up in the stems. Here the best ones seem to be maxima (which is the same as Himalayana, also ochlandra), then obtusa (gigas, Thai Mt. Giant), then mitis. Heavy frosts can burn the foliage but I've seen all three of these take down to 25f out in the open for awhile and bounce back in a yr's time. Most of this genus appears to grow best in partial shade for their first 2 or 3 yrs then full sun is ok, provided they get consistent irrigation. Here the least tolerant of cold are ophiopellis, zebrina and no in that order. Bigger is always better with these guys.

[JD in the OC]

caryota gigas (obtusa) grows in high mountainous rainforest in Thailand- probably the highest altitude of any caryota. i figure they can take down to the low 20's? kevin weaver has one in lake elsinore, ca which defoliated at 18 degrees I think, but came back. c. ophiopellis is definitely the most cold sensitive, coming from sealevel in Vanuatu.

[gilles06]

Thank you guys for your contribution.

My caryota sp himalya didn't suffer when it got 25F as a seedling, and is in full sun since its young age, had never one leaf burned. I have also a caryota obtusa gigas but it is less healty in my cold mediteranean climate, is a bit chlorotic .

I will try ochlandra if i find one.

Ciao.

Gilles06.

[paulgila]

c."no" is the most beautiful so it only stands to reason its the most sensitive

[JasonD]

Caryota maxima 'Himalaya' is more tolerant of cool San Francisco summers than Caryota obtusa (gigas).

[ghar41]

Still not sure which one is the hardiest....mainly because I'm never sure which one is which. Too much confusion in this genus.

I bought this one as C. gigas. Did fine in January '07 freeze, under a shade cloth.

[ghar41]

I bought this as C. urens....30% defoliation in January '07.

[ghar41]

I bought this as C. himalayana...30% defoliation in January 07.

[Don Little]

c."no" is the most beautiful so it only stands to reason its the most sensitive

Paul,

They have a few labeled C no growing over at the Huntington close to the C gigas and other caryota's. Not sure if the label is right but they certainly aren't C urens, C maxima, or C ochlandra's. They also have some of the same species growing over at the South Coast Plaza near a beautiful clump of C mitis, C urens and C gigas, so maybe there is some hope. I have a seedling that I got from Floribunda this spring that is doing good. I'll leave it outside unprotected under some canopy and see how it does this winter. Who knows, we'll see.

[edbrown_III]

I had 2 out the past 10 years or so C. obtusa and C. "I dont know" They have tolerated low 20's and in 99' 2 weeks of freezing nights. Very slow here.. The C. obtusa has about 5 foot of trunk not much for so long in ground ..

The C. "I dont know " has really grown this year --- almost 6 additional feet ---

I had a C. mitis up against the house in 89' I kept it covered and managed to keep it .. It grew to 20 feet tall before the freezes in 99 killed it.

Best regards,

Ed

[Phil]

hey Guys,

A few comments on Caryota.

I've had a Caryota no in my garden in San Diego for 20 years. It's flowering now. Height about 30 feet or a bit more. But, I agree that urens, ochlandra and gigas are more cold hardy.

Caryota gigas is NOT more cold hardy than urens. If you're pushing the envelope, don't use gigas. Also, inland desert areas have trouble with all the Carytas in full sun.

The term "Cold Hardy Mountain Urens" has always befuddled me. The term originated at least 40 years ago when someone imported seeds from Thailand from a high elevation and presumably colder area. And, the seeds were germinated and sold. In retrospect, I think they were trying to say urens was more cold hardy than, let's say, mitis. Could there be a difference among the population of C. urens? Possibly, who knows.

Caryota ochlandra got this reputation as being more cold hardy than urens decades ago. If so, it's less of a difference than urens compared to gigas. And, this is complicated by the fact that some taxonomists think that ochlandra is a type of urens. Look for the dark fur on ochlandra to ID it.

Regarding Caryotas, what do you think this one is? (picture from thread on Palm Exchange). I can post a picture after the leaf has opened more later.

Or our buddy here we call Little Elvis

More pictures of this at the thread.

Phil

[GREENHAND]

I am growing this one in zone 8 , i seems to be doing ok, but we had a mild winter last year, i think it is a c mitis but not sure.

[edbrown_III]

Heres a few photos to light up this thread again.

Can any one identifiy this --one

[edbrown_III]

Trunk closeup

[edbrown_III]

another view

[Tala]

Ed - not 100% sure, I want to say maxima (ochlandra, Himalayana), you have a seed source? This palm h/b planted heavily in cen. Fl. the past decade. It is the most cold hardy Caryota we can grow, slight advantage over obtusa/gigas. I've heard about urens being so but I have yet to see a single specimen that doesn't look like crap in our climate, plus they flower & die off in same time frame, size as mitis. But the latter looks so much better here. Perhaps in your (slightly) cooler clime the urens palm can be grown?

[edbrown_III]

Ed - not 100% sure, I want to say maxima (ochlandra, Himalayana), you have a seed source? This palm h/b planted heavily in cen. Fl. the past decade. It is the most cold hardy Caryota we can grow, slight advantage over obtusa/gigas. I've heard about urens being so but I have yet to see a single specimen that doesn't look like crap in our climate, plus they flower & die off in same time frame, size as mitis. But the latter looks so much better here. Perhaps in your (slightly) cooler clime the urens palm can be grown?

This is probably the C. maxima then as I got it a nmber of years ago --- the friend probably got it from one of those meetings. Are you saying C. maxima is the same as C. ochlandra and C. Himalayana or is it something different-- I had really paid much attentio to these palms but now they are getting real big and holding my interest .

Best regards

Ed

[Tala]

yes those 3 are at least vegetatively and culturally one & the same, but y'know what a lumper I be ...

they're great palms for our area, and they get the tallest of the common Caryota planted here; mature specimens at Universal are flowering anywhere from 30 to 40 ft overall. Even still we only get 10-12 yrs from seed to maturity on them, longer if kept shaded.

[Alicehunter2000]

What is the trick on growing any Caryota? They seam to hate my sandy beach conditions, even in the shade. Do I add a little clay to the mix....or just straight potting soil? Getting ready to plant C. ochalandra.

[KennyRE317]

a neighbor has a flowering C.no that's about 25' or so and always looked pretty good. i haven't walked by there in awhile though

[Really full garden]

What is the trick on growing any Caryota? They seam to hate my sandy beach conditions, even in the shade. Do I add a little clay to the mix....or just straight potting soil? Getting ready to plant C. ochalandra.

I have C.mitis at the beach growing in almost pure sand/full sun.Its been planted for 12years and is over 20ft tall with multiple trunks.

[Matt in OC]

What is the trick on growing any Caryota? They seam to hate my sandy beach conditions, even in the shade. Do I add a little clay to the mix....or just straight potting soil? Getting ready to plant C. ochalandra.

They seem to love my clay soil and lots of water. They're also pretty heavy feeders, I believe. Otherwise they get necrotic spots pretty quickly.

[KennyRE317]

What is the trick on growing any Caryota? They seam to hate my sandy beach conditions, even in the shade. Do I add a little clay to the mix....or just straight potting soil? Getting ready to plant C. ochalandra.

from what i've seen and read, they want alot of water

[Matthew92]

Anyone know the real cold hardiness of Caryota ochlandra? Palmpedia lists it as 9a, which is very hardy- can anyone confirm this?

[gyuseppe]

to me have died to -3 degrees celsius,caryota maxima,caryota mitis,caryota urens,some caryota maxima himalaya

while they survived  to -3 degrees celsius ,some caryota maxima himalaya,all caryota obtusa  and all caryota ochlandra

[Tracy]

Caryota gigas in my Carlsbad backyard.  I think a good deal of this is wind damage from late December early January, but I can't confirm.  I never had frost in the back in the years that I lived in the house, so doubt it was cold damage.  In 2007 that gigas was a lot smaller and it got down to about 29 degrees at dawn, so I was out lighting an area heater under that patio roof to try to keep some small potted items warm (it worked).  Typically it didn't get down that cold, but I don't have any thermometers set up to see how cold it got this winter.

[Phoenikakias]

On 1/4/2016, 8:44:33, Tracy said:

Caryota gigas in my Carlsbad backyard.  I think a good deal of this is wind damage from late December early January, but I can't confirm.  I never had frost in the back in the years that I lived in the house, so doubt it was cold damage.  In 2007 that gigas was a lot smaller and it got down to about 29 degrees at dawn, so I was out lighting an area heater under that patio roof to try to keep some small potted items warm (it worked).  Typically it didn't get down that cold, but I don't have any thermometers set up to see how cold it got this winter.

Definitely (winter-) wind damage.

[Phoenikakias]

On 30/3/2016, 11:07:46, Opal92 said:

Anyone know the real cold hardiness of Caryota ochlandra? Palmpedia lists it as 9a, which is very hardy- can anyone confirm this?

Mine, outplanted, died at -2 C, but it had a restricted root system due to pot planting .

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

On March 4, 2015 at 7:11:41 PM, Alicehunter2000 said:

What is the trick on growing any Caryota? They seam to hate my sandy beach conditions, even in the shade. Do I add a little clay to the mix....or just straight potting soil? Getting ready to plant C. ochalandra.

Here's one thing I know.  I know nothing about growing Carlota in sandy conditions.  The first one we planted is 30' tall and happy as a clam.  All the others (3) are just ugly, stunted, spotted, yellow and generally worthless as ornamentals.  I have no idea why.