Someone explain pollination to me..

[newtothis]

So a female palm grows flowers, and a male palm grows whatever has pollen? THen the air/birds/whatever pollinate the flowers and the flowers become seeds? So any palm with seeds is female? But all seeds are not pollinated right?

[Kostas]

So a female palm grows flowers, and a male palm grows whatever has pollen? THen the air/birds/whatever pollinate the flowers and the flowers become seeds? So any palm with seeds is female? But all seeds are not pollinated right?

Something before i start explaining the pollination is that not all palms are Dioecious(male and female flowers on different palms) but most are Monoecious(both male and female flowers present on the same palm).That means that most have male and female flowers present on the same inflorescence.In monoecious palms,male and female organs may be present on seperate flowers and then we call these flowers either male flowers or female flowers.But,there is also the case where male and female organs are present on the same flower...Such flowers are called perfect flowers and carry both stamens(male organs) and ovary.Here is a flower anatomy picture of a perfect flower...Male flowers either lack ovary or have a shrinked,sterile one while female flowers lack anthers or the whole stamens.

Pollination in palms may be by wind,air,bats and insects(i dont know of any bird pollination in palms)Once this happens(i assume you dont want to know the details in cell level...),the ovary starts to swell and grow further,stimulated by plant hormones and a fruit(more specifically a drupe) is formed with time.The fruit contains the seed(s),depending on the species...

Its true that any palm that carries fruits,grows female flowers for sure but unless you know it belongs to a Dioecious genus,you cant tell its a female tree or not,unless you go further and study the inflorenscens from close,searching for remnants of male flowers or male flower brances...In a Phoenix palm for example,yes,you could tell that its a female palm if it carries fruits

Not all female flowers are pollinated of course,just as you say due to various reasons depending on both the flower structure and the availiability of pollen and pollinators.Unpollinated female/perfect flowers fall of the tree once stigma ceases reception.Only pollinated female/perfect flowers continue development to become fruits.

Will add on later due to the internet room closing...

[Kostas]

Sometimes though,due to the plant hormones,unpollinated flowers may set fruit too but these have no seed inside or at the very least,no embryo in the formed seed.The seeds,if formed,wont look as good as viable,pollinated seeds and wont give a new palm...In certain dioecious palm species(like Phoenix dactylifera),a condition called parthenocarpy may occur...In that,the entire female inflorescence sets fruit without seeds or with shrinked/very small seeds which of course are infertile and not viable...Also,the fruits dont look very normal and taste is not the usual too...

So,generally speaking,all normal shaped seeds formed are pollinated,fertile seeds...The other conditions dont happen often unless its a dioecious species and no palm of the same species or genus in present in the general area that pollen can be trasfered...

I hope i helped you a little with this subject...

[newtothis]

Kostas, that is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!

[FRITO]

Kostas,

Thanks, for the detailed explanation this should help lots of people out! I think a registry sorting common or known palm genus' based on monoecious or dioecious would be a helpful tool to many.

example: Phoenix - Dioecious , Butia - monoecious, and palms like Chamaerops and Rhapidophyllum - can switch sexes and suckers can be diffrent also. ( I dont know the scientific term for this)

[newtothis]

Another question along the same lines...I understand it that phoenix sp. are whores. Can ALL palm sp. cross with something else? What makes some palms accept certain pollens and others not? Why can a p. dact x with a roeb but not a dypsis (just pullijng this out of my a** but you get the gist of the question).

Or is it just queens and phoenix you have to worry about? If I put a hyophorbe out next to my trachycarpus or sabal do I have to worry about wierd seeds?

[Kostas]

I am glad you both liked my explaination!

FRITO,

Such a registry would surely be great but requires quite some searching to do and there are many genus and possibly some species may be exceptions to the rule for their genus too...

newtothis,

Not all palms species can cross and certainly,even the species that do can,cannot cross with everything,they can only cross with closely related species/genera.Species in monospecific genera are the least likely to cross with anything,except if they are closely related to another genus such as in the case of Jubaea chiliensis which crosses with many others...For example,i imagine that Hedyscape canterburyana or Lepidorrhachis mooreana should not be able to cross with any other palm...Cyphosperma balansae too...To say if a species is likely to cross with another,you much check how related they are or not...A Kentiopsis wont cross with a Phoenix for example...Nor a Chamaedorea with a Washingtonia...And that brings something else too:there is no known cross between fan palms and pinnate plams...So species of complete different leaf habit wont cross...

There are 5 ways that prevent cross-breeding in nature:

First,is geographical separation...Many closely related species rely on geographical separation to maintain their purity...Such palms many times do not posses other mechanisms to prevent fertilization from the pollen of another closely related species while others do posses one of the other mechanisms listed here too...An example genus that lacks any other protection is Phoenix...

Secondly,most species have mechanisms that check the identity of the pollen grains that find their way to the stigma and allow to ''germinate'' and penetrate only the correct id ones...Unfortunately,species that rely on geographical separation such as the different species of Phoenix,Syagrus,Butia,Jubaea and others,dont have specific enough identificators and allow pollen of other species to fertilize them too because they are similar enough to be accepted...There are other species however that have very good pollen id mechanisms and do not cross for this reason...This mechanisms are not to be trusted with most species for preventing interspecific hybrids while most palms possess good enough to be trusted to prevent intergenetic hybrids(with known exceptions of the genus Syagrus,Butia,Parajubaea,Jubaea,Veitchia,Wodyetia and possibly Cocos...)

Third,flowering times can be used by palms to prevent hybridization of related species that share the same habitat...I do not remember an example for there do are quite a few species that rely on this in their habitat...and its an effective way as long as the weather doesnt trick them to flower at the same time of the year...Species that flower on completely different months are quite safe though and its tough to have a natural hybrid out of them...Only man made ones can exist...

Fourth,pollinators may differ so much between palm species as to prevent a cross for non wind fertilized palms...Specialized pollinators,such as bats and certain insect species prevent the crossing of palms that use different pollinators...Wind pollinated species are of fear though for all of them if they are closely related...

And finally fifth,the DNA of certain palms ay be incompatible with another species due to great differences of it.A big difference in chromosomal number between two species or any other serious difference in the make of the DNA or the information it carrys,can lead to premature embryo death,even if pollinated and so a cross wont be produced...

As a general rule,the hot cases for hybridzation are species that belong to the same genus or to closely related genera...Such species should be thoroughly researched for one of the mechanisms i listed before one can assume that they wont cross...Also,if there is no registry for hybrids in the genus researched,there are good chances that it does not hybridize...But,you cannot be sure...The safest way to have pure seeds is to only plant 1 species of each genus and to watch out for any genera that produce intergenetic species...From such genera,you have to select only 1 or do a great deal of research to find species with different flowering times...

Now on your example,a Hyophorb stands no chance of hybridizing with a Trachycarpus or Sabal and chances are,a Trachy doesnt hybridize with Sabals either...Dont know that for sure though...

[DoomsDave]

Kostas touched upon a fascinating issue, that of "purity" and avoiding excessive inbreeding.

Inbreeding takes place when brothers and sisters have kids by each other. The danger is that some bad genes get "fixed" in such a population more quickly. (Though it can also fix good genes, too.)

Many many plant families have elaborate "strategies" to avoid inbreeding, including being dioecious.

Thanks, Kostas!@