Mule palm more stubborn than a donkey

[Palm Hound]

My one gallon Mule palm (real name too long to write) hasn't moved, sending out only half a leaf since March or April. Have others with young, potted mules experienced this slowness? Not like the faster Butia or obviously fast Queen. What's up with this palm?

[freakypalmguy]

I bought a one gallon and immediately planted it in the ground. I was expecting explosive growth but it was slow at first. Then about a year later it has exploded. It seams like it took off after it put out it's first pinnate frond. I say put it in the ground.

Matt

[freakypalmguy]

Or pot it up, maybe it wants some more room for roots?

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Like a lot of small palms, some of the cocoid hybrids can be awfully poky when they are young and before they put out a pinnate frond. Dave, maybe if you moved your palm up to a two gallon size it might help. I usually plant mine when they have grown two pinnate fronds before I put them in the ground. Once the base of the trunk begins to enlarge and they can grow more roots, I've found all of mine have speeded up in growth, in fact as Matt says....they have exploded with growth.

Dick

[rsproule]

I have two Mule seedlings in the ground, they look very healthy, but they're slowest palms I have. I've had them for 2.5 years and they still have not developed pinnate leaves. The Phoenix rupiciola seeding I got at the same time is much faster and even my little Dypsis decipiens is outpacing them. I'm glad this topic was raised, they are so slow I was begining to think I may have gotten pure butias. The one thing I am seeing is their trunks thickening up.

Thanks

Ryan

Sacramento Area - Zone 9B

[Patrick]

I have a mulie that's been extremely slow as well; it was small when I planted it, but it's slowness may have had something to do with the 07 freeze as well. At any rate, I have another 5 gal. mule that I planted and it has grown MUCH faster than my little guy. I can also second what everyone else is saying about speeding up after the leaves go pinnate. The smaller palm I've been talking about has just put out it's third pinnate leaf and it's seemed to start moving a bit.....

Hope this helps!

[PalmGuyWC]

I think the problem is.....it's not the palms, it's US!! We are to impatient. I planted a 5 gal sized Bujubaea X Butia about 3 years ago. For the first 2 years, it just sat, hardly grew at all, and I was thinking of digging it up and putting another palm in its place. This summer, now that it has a softball sized trunk, the thing has suddenly started to grow, and has doubled in size.

Incidently, I can't see much advantage in a Bujubaea X Butia cross, except that it should be very cold hardy with Jubaea in it. For all pratical purposes mine looks just like a Butia except it is mostly green and it does have a very heavy texture. It also seems to have heavy fiber around the base of the petioles.

Dick

[Palm Hound]

My palm was waiting for a new leaf. The last leaf had some fungus or something and it stalled. The new leaf is emerging and is already growing MUCH faster than the previous one.

[Mark Heath]

I have bins that i sow my XButiagrus seeds in. Every year i have about 25% of them outgrow the others by leaps and bounds. I'm sure there are many factors involved. Parents/vigour/too much water/too little water?????

One thing that i don't do anymore is bare-root them too late in the year. I bare rooted about 300 of them a few years ago in September and it took all the next year for them to finally start growing again.

This is the reason i have'nt sent Luke his two that i owe him, too late in the year for bare-rooting IMO.

I agree w/ Matt, next spring plant that sucker!!

Merrill brought a similiar subject up about vigour. In my case usually the ones that germinate first are going to be the ones that grow the fastest. While the ones that take a year to germinate have a high mortality rate/ slow growth rate.

[merrill]

Hi, Mark:

I'd be very interested in how many Queen mothers and Butia fathers you have in your stable. I've got about twenty mother Butia and uncounted Queen pollen parents; usually don't keep records of the fathers. My stable of mules is disgustingly variable. They are moderately variable even when they have the same two parents, but I envy the Lewises at Moultrie, for a long time all of their hybrids had one mother, and even now their number of mothers is quite limited. Last time we discussed it, they were dissatisfied with their uniformity, but I thought their uniformity was excellent.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Neofolis]

I only have a Butia x Jubaea, but my experiences have been similar to others. As a strap leaf seedling, it's growth rate was the same as my Jubaea, but since going pinnate, it gains size faster than any of my other palms, although it doesn't produce as many leaves as some. It also has the advantage that it will grow in fairly cool temperatures.

[Mark Heath]

Hi, Mark:

I'd be very interested in how many Queen mothers and Butia fathers you have in your stable. I've got about twenty mother Butia and uncounted Queen pollen parents; usually don't keep records of the fathers. My stable of mules is disgustingly variable. They are moderately variable even when they have the same two parents, but I envy the Lewises at Moultrie, for a long time all of their hybrids had one mother, and even now their number of mothers is quite limited. Last time we discussed it, they were dissatisfied with their uniformity, but I thought their uniformity was excellent.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Hello Merrill,

I wish i could tell you good news, but i have been unsuccessfull w/ using the Syagrus as the mother palm w/ Butia as the pollen donor. I have only tried it a few times. I should try it more seeing that i was fascinated by yours, what a beautifull palm!!

Regarding the other subject about variability among the hybrid Mules. I get quite alot of different hybrids seeing i use different pollen donors but i usually don't see the difference untill they have a little size to them, a 7 gallon size would be a good example. I like the difference in them because i have friends/buyers say that they want one that resembles the Butia more or vice-versa.

I wish you could visit me and we would discuss this in person!!! HHHMMMMMMM??????? Hint, Hint!!!

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

PalmHound, that does sound slow, but, once out of the fungus, it should grow fast.

True hybrids in my epxerience are not slow, though, the Jube Hybrids are a lot slower than Buteas.

Keep us apprized.

Maybe a picture?

[merrill]

Hi, Mark;

You are always welcome! I wish someone else would produce [Queen X Butia] X Queen!

merrill

Edited December 6, 2008 by merrill

[Shon]

Where's the Donkey damn it?

[Mark Heath]

Merrill,

I'll try the cross again this year. I am planning on pollinating one of my Queens w/ XButyagrus F1 pollen. I have a XButyagrus that produces seed, albeit no endocarp, so i figure that is a good pollen donor. I can't wait to try that one!

Shon,

That was a good one! But sorry, no donkey here!