Phoenix roebelenii

[Ciczi in Sweden]

Hello!

My first post on this forum and hopeully not my last

I got a Phoenix roebelenii as a gift earlier this summer and the specifications from my friend was that I had to grow it on open land all year.

My fiancé said that I had to test my thesis from my master thesis Hardy palms for scandinavian climate.

Allthough I know that P. roebelenii is a tropical species and I'm having second thoughts about growing it on open land all year.

Friends have been telling me that it will not survive temperatures below minus 2 celsius.

So shall I dig it up and keep it in my basement where it's 15-17 celsius in the winter? Or what do you think? It's autumn here now with 10 degrees in daytime and 7 at nigths. I think it will be good for another couple of weeks.

best greetings from a rainy Sweden.

/Ciczi

Edited October 1, 2008 by Ciczi in Sweden

[bgl]

Hej Cecilia,

Och välkommen till IPS PalmTalk Forum. Verkligen kul med en medlem i Sverige! Själv är jag född och uppvuxen i Malmö och bodde i Falsterbo i fyra år innan jag flyttade till USA.

OK, better continue in English for the benefit of everybody else...! Phoenix roebelenii can take lower temps than -2C (28F), but probably not for long. A number of years ago when we lived in Poway, California, I planted a bunch of P. roebelenii, same size as yours, and then after a couple of weeks I woke up to 22F (-5.5C). I lost one, the others received major frost damage, but survived. But it was probably only below freezing for 3-4 hours or so. Maybe 5 at the most. You can certainly keep your P. roebelenii outside where you are all of October, and probably a week or two into November. Then I would get concerned. I would think it may also require more light than what it would normally get since I'm very familiar with how short and dark the days are at your location in the Nov-Jan period.

And I've asked the Moderator to move your thread to Discussing Palm Trees in order to get more exposure and feedback.

Aloha från Leilani Estates på the Big Island av Hawaii!

Bo-Göran

[niftinfiftin]

Welcome from New Zealand,

That's a nice P. roebelenii, I think that Bo's advice is good. How much light would the basement get? Would it be enough for a few months?

Anyway,

Welocme to the forum, hopefully it won't be your last post. You'll have to take us on a photo tour of your city!

Cheers,

Nathan

[Kris]

Dear Cecilia

Welcome to palmtalk !

Love,

Kris

[Ciczi in Sweden]

In my basement I would have to add growing lights because it's pitch dark otherwise. I have decided to keep the little fellow outside till atleast the end of october all depending on the weather.

A phototour of my town, yes why not!

Starting with this one taken last october at eigth o'clock in the evening.

/Ciczi

[bgl]

Cecilia,

The basement is not the best location. Do you have an indoor spot close to a window facing south where you could keep it? That would probably be optimal. And then if you could add a growing light for early mornings and late afternoons that would really help.

By the way, does the City of Trelleborg still put out all those palms along the harbor during the summer months?

Hej då!

Bo-Göran

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

What kind of palms can be grown outdoors in Trelleborg? Can you grow Chinese Windmill Palms (Trachycarpus fortunei)?

[Alberto]

Hello Ciczi, Welcome!

For my climate here,P.roebellini is a´´marginal´´ palm. Some winters they defoliate,and others like this latter they only show some burned fronds. In your climate (7a) it´s not a palm to let outside!!!!!

Edited October 2, 2008 by Alberto

[Ciczi in Sweden]

A friend in Trelleborg grows Chamaerops humilis on open land and Trachycarpus fortunei too.

And yes the city still have their palms in containers at the entrance road of Trelleborg. The picture in my last post is one of them. But they aren't so beautiful anymore due to the fact of beeing grown in too small containers.

Well if the basement wouldn't suffice for my palm it have to bee my garbageroom (I do not store garbage there anymore it's just a name) with a window in the door. There is about 15 degrees Celsius all through the winter.

Otherwise I have no options.

/Ciczi

edit: Checking the temperature interval for USDA zone 7 says that lowest temperature is -18 Celsius. But according to statistics and METAR my city haven't had lower than -13 Celsius during the last 4 years. I would say I have a good microclimate

Edited October 3, 2008 by Ciczi in Sweden

[BS Man about Palms]

Hello Ciczi and welcome to the forum! Bo and you would know better than I, but I would suspect that your palm would not like to be dug up much either. Have you considered placing dark rocks or bricks around the base to absorb some sunlight during the day?

Looks good and I hope you have great success!

Bill

[Ciczi in Sweden]

Hello Ciczi and welcome to the forum! Bo and you would know better than I, but I would suspect that your palm would not like to be dug up much either. Have you considered placing dark rocks or bricks around the base to absorb some sunlight during the day?

Looks good and I hope you have great success!

Bill

Well I have thougth of building some sort of portable house around it...

Ciczi

[Neofolis]

Welcome to Palmtalk.

Phoenix roebelenii is unlikely to survive long term in your climate. They will survive winters in many parts of the UK, but there is not sufficient length of growing season or heat in the summer for them to fully recover most years. They tend to gradually decline over the years, until thery are not strong enough to pull through the winter. In a particularly good summer, they may recover a little or with a particularly mild winter they recover more during the summer, but it is just a question of time and if you should get a temperature below -6°C/21°F, then even a healthy specimen is unlikely to survive. I've known one last 17 years here and another last 12, but usually 3-4 years is normal and that's in the milder areas. There may be some that are lasting longer on the coastal, far southwest here, but those areas are virtually frost free.

[GREENHAND]

I seen them burn at 27 deg, they do not like the cold very much, and if they take a hit they are slow to come back, here in Dallas i only keep them in pots and they go in the greenhouse in the winter.

[ghar41]

P. roebellini is marginal in my climate 9b. We have also had many nice winters in succession over the past 15 years or so but I have had them completely defoliate in this time. Some have even lost their spear...although they recovered sometime the following summer.

In December of 1990 a hard frost in our area (-7 C) killed most, if not all, unprotected P roebellini's here.

I think the real question for this palm in Zone 7 or 8 is "How can I protect it?"

Good Luck!

[bgl]

The main challenge at Cecilia's location (which is ALMOST as far north as Juneau, Alaska) is not the minimum temperature during the winter. It may not even drop below 30F/-1C during any given winter. The problem is simply a continuous series of days and nights where the temperature is going to hover around 30-35F, day and night, and with very little daylight. Days are very short in Dec/Jan and the sun just barely gets up above the horizon, even at 12 noon. It doesn't have time to warm up much of anything. Plus, there could be several weeks with overcast weather. I have experienced periods in southern Sweden of 4-5 weeks where you don't even see the sun AT ALL during the winter.

[Ciczi in Sweden]

I think the real question for this palm in Zone 7 or 8 is "How can I protect it?"

Good Luck!

That would bee the real question.

And Bo is absolutetly right about the sun. Sometimes it rains for 3- 4 weeks and when the sun do show up you blink dazed up at it and say to your self "so this is the sun".

I think my best shoot is to build a portable house (with styrofoam as isolation) around my little fellow or dig it up and keep it inside with growing lights.

Ciczi

[Neofolis]

One thing you need to think about, if you build anything around it, is availability of light. With days so short and overcast and the sun so low in the sky, light levels are already very poor and anything you put between the plant and the sun is going to lower the light levels further. The plant can just as easily die from lack of light as it can from lack of heat, so you will need to get the balance just right. The warmer it is inside the structure, the less light you will have, but the more light it will want.

[Ciczi in Sweden]

I have been thinking carefully about my palm and winter and protection so it's my decision to dig the little fellow up. It's allready showing some foliage dammage and I haven't had frost yet. I have to accept the fact that it defenitely wont survive outdoors.

I have to clear space in my basement and add growing ligths. Next time someone buys me a palm I have to tell them to buy another species like Trachycarpus or Chamaerops.

This is the best alternative for my palm as I do not have a green house. And I would like to keep it for at least a couple of years. Next growing season I will keep it in a container and that would make it simpler to protect it in my climate.

Until my basement is cleared I will protect my palm with winter fiber cloth during night time.

I believe this is my best shoot and there is probably nothing that will change it.

/Ciczi

[_Keith]

I have done particularly bad jobs of digging and moving roebelenii without issues.

Instead of the basement, is there no option to use this as a houseplant near a sunny window?

And welcome to PalmTalk, too.

[Ciczi in Sweden]

Well no.

there's no place indoors for this one. It is simply to big. It would take up half my living room and I have a very small apartment.

Still my best shoot is basement with growing lights.

Ciczi

[Ciczi in Sweden]

And next time when palms enter my garden I have to do better research about their hardiness.

Ciczi

[bgl]

Ciczi,

You can definitely keep it alive indoors for an extended period of time. My sister in Malmö had a Phoenix indoors (under the steps to the second level, where it only had artificial light) and she kept that alive for several years. And she never had it outdoors. If you move your Phoenix outdoors during the summer months, it'll definitely extend its life.

Bo-Göran

[Ciczi in Sweden]

I'm going to my local green house supplier tomorrow and buying some new lights.

And I'm thinking of the change of going to my basement in the future wont be boring and dull because theres a living thing down there... My palm!

My other palm, Phoenix canariensis is showing no signs what so ever of foliage dammage or antything else for that matter. But I also bougth that one as a experiment and that one is going to remain outside all winter. With protection when needed.

Ciczi

[Ciczi in Sweden]

Hello All!

My Phoenix roebelenii have now moved to a warmer place. Temperature outside is down to 5 degrees Celsius and very little sunny days.

How many hours will be neccesary with growing lights. 6? 8? more? Less?

BR

Ciczi

[PalmatierMeg]

Ciczi, I am no palm expert by far but I am sure your Phoenix would want as much light as possible. If I were you I would have lights on it at least 12 hours a day. Phoenix are sun lovers. Anyone else have a suggestion?

[Ciczi in Sweden]

I was thinking about spraying some water around my palm to make up for waterloss. How often should I do this?

Ciczi