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Drain Tiles or French Drains for your palms

DoomsDave

By DoomsDave
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Howdyall:

Once upon a time, it was a common practice to install drain tiles, i.e., pieces of ceramic pipe about 20" long and 6" wide into soil that was heavy clay to carry excess water away.

I had them at my place and I took them out.

Now, they use plastic perforated "French Drain" pipe.

So, what are our experiences?

So I can include them in my article . . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Jeff Searle Grand Master

Jeff Searle

Posted
Posted

No experiences what so ever. What article?

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted
No experiences what so ever. What article?

I;'m writing an article to submit to our local journal about dealing with clay soil.

One option is to install pipes to carry off the extra water, but I took mine out, because now the palms drink it all up . . . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Tad Grand Master

Tad

Posted
Posted

wet or dry it's still clay.

MULCH

COMPOST

GYPSUM

SULFUR

TIME

PATIENCE

These are the 6 keys to slaying the clay dragon grasshopper!!

Many have tried, many have failed!!!

Do not be fooled by false prophets and charlatans selling snake oil and chicanery!!!!

Adding sand and rocks to the hole is not the way.

The road to soil that is fertile and loamy is paved with mulch,compost,gypsum,sulfur,time and patience!!

post-18-1222564653_thumb.jpg

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted

doink!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Kris Grand Master

Kris

Posted
Posted

Dear Dave :)

here is my method but have not palnted anything in it though...since i want action..right from the word go...since the palms that i intend to grow my outlast my life expetency..so i have do this work rightaway..this summer is the big experimentation day for all of us here in chennai.hope this works for us.so that i can strongly advocate this method to all clayee soil members and vice-versa to those who have only sandy soil like my brother Gileno Machado (brazil).

Here is that Link for that clayee soil ammendment...only for those who want things to happen fast.

Love,

Kris :)

And by the way dave i love to be in your article that you are writing... :rolleyes: And let the reader of your article decide which method they want... :lol:

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted
wet or dry it's still clay.

MULCH

COMPOST

GYPSUM

SULFUR

TIME

PATIENCE

These are the 6 keys to slaying the clay dragon grasshopper!!

Many have tried, many have failed!!!

Do not be fooled by false prophets and charlatans selling snake oil and chicanery!!!!

Adding sand and rocks to the hole is not the way.

The road to soil that is fertile and loamy is paved with mulch,compost,gypsum,sulfur,time and patience!!

I agree, oh Wise Acre!

However, many still insist on what they hope is an easier method.

LOTS of organix can speed things up, bit it's hard work to bury that stuff. I just got done earlier today, and I feel like I've been chewed, swalled, barfed back up again, reswallowed and [defecated] out . . . .

But, the other areas have been worth it . . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Tad Grand Master

Tad

Posted
Posted

Grasshopper,

work smarter not harder,

plan your work and then work your plan,

A walk behind tiller can be easily rented and makes short work of an unpleasent job.

Worms, while the scourge of your intestines are soils best friends, set up a small worm farm and allow them to breed like rabbits, turn them loose and let them do the hard pan for you!!

Investigate green manures as a slow but steady method of improving ones soils, plant them out, till them in repeat as needed.

alfalfa is a great green manure grop because of its contents and makeup, lots of nitrogen, and some unidentified growth enhancing stuff, I have used dryed alfalfa pellets as a top dress for some of my organic obsessed customers gardens( i will admit to being a little bit of a hippy).

THERE ARE NO EASY CURES, THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES, YOUR TRYING TO FORCE MOTHER NATURES WORK INTO BEING SOMETHING THAT IT'S NOT!!!

IT TAKES TIME AND PATIENCE, BUT THE REWARDS ARE AWESOME!!

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

Jeff Searle Grand Master

Jeff Searle

Posted
Posted

What tongue are you guys speaking? I's lost......

007

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

FRITO Grand Master

FRITO

Posted
Posted

Over here we have a bit of the Georgia clay creeping down into North Florida. its can be tough as a rock - rototilling organics in and mulching heavily will turn hard clay into "black gold".

shade seems to be key as the soil doesnt dry out and bake. this mositure and shadier area seems to encourage the worms and beetles, and other bugs to churn away at the soil they call home.

this has been my experience. I compost pretty much anything into my soil, effectively eliminating lots of "yard waste" put out curbside.

Luke

Tallahassee, FL - USDA zone 8b/9a

63" rain annually

January avg 65/40 - July avg 92/73

North Florida Palm Society - http://palmsociety.blogspot.com/

_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

Posted
Posted

I use everything that rots as compost or mulch. Mulch is the ultimate shade and conditioner for clay soil and will keep it nice and loose. Earthworms do the tilling over time. I used to put about 6 inches of municipal compost over large areas of hard clay. Over 2 years the transition from brick making material to clay loam with great internal drainagewas nothing short of amazing. Now I am sure that our rainfall amounts help. Not sure that the benefit would be similar and certainly not nearly as fast in a more arid climate without regular irrigation.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Moisture is definitely key.

Here in the land o'La La, I have to water the bare dirt, to keep the organix wet under it.

Yesterday, I excavated a 10 by 10 foot area and buried about 4 cubic yards of dead stuff, including mulch, about three times the volume of the soil itself.

Then I watered for about three hours.

Of course, there will be a follow up with more fill dirt (I'm raising the grade) and more mulch.

Itai!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Tad Grand Master

Tad

Posted
Posted

how deep are you excavating Dave?

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted
how deep are you excavating Dave?

About two feet.

I'd go lower, but I'm not Superman anymore.

Still, in the areas I've already done and planted, the plants definitely do much much better than in undug areas.

And, oh yes, there's more mulching and still more mulching.

I mulch, therefore I am! (A good tat'!)

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Tad Grand Master

Tad

Posted
Posted

i think if you rented a tiller and twice a year till in a 4 to 6 inch layer of mulch, and in the meantime work out a green manure program it wouldnt take but a 2 or 3 years to accomplish what your after and less superman action required.

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
  • Author
Posted
i think if you rented a tiller and twice a year till in a 4 to 6 inch layer of mulch, and in the meantime work out a green manure program it wouldnt take but a 2 or 3 years to accomplish what your after and less superman action required.

Yeah, well, at some point you have to plant something . . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

MattyB Grand Master

MattyB

Posted
Posted

Tad, what do you think about planting a whole bunch of very fast and deep rooted plants like Tomatoes, and at the end of the season just cut them off and till them in. I did this as my first planting at my old house and I swear the next year the soil was 100 times better. I could just envision the tomato roots penetrating and displacing the soil, then rotting away creating miniature tunnles down into the earth for water, more organics and microbes to flow.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

Tad Grand Master

Tad

Posted
Posted

Matty you have just hit the nail on the head, this is exactly what the no till and low till methods are based on, I would look at alfalfa, or some type of legumes for the nitrogen fixing qualities.

To facilitate growing these you could set up and till your first layer or two of organics and mulch, grow a crop, mow it down flat, till in the residue, along with another healthy/liberal layer of organics and mulch and repeat, the roots are going to go alot deeper than you can till, if you do this a couple of times your looking at some serious soil improvement, another thing about taming the clay dragon is, once your hooked, your hooked, you have to regularly attend and amend this stuff, other wise the organic decays down to nothing and you revert back to what you started with, wow my prof would be so pleased I actually sound like I was not sleeping one off all through soil science classes :)

the idea is to ammend your soil, whip it into shape,and then thru good husbandry practises you keep it in shape by annual applications of organic material.

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

Posted
Posted

I remember a lot of hoorah a few years back about "hairy vetch" as a green manure crop.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Tad Grand Master

Tad

Posted
Posted

hairy vetch does have a big following, I have no experience with it, black eyed peas are a great cover crop because you can eat them with pork chops :)

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

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