Trachycarpus martianus

[Tom_StMarys_GA]

We all hear a lot about Trachycarpus fortunei and its related minions -- takil, nanus, orephilus, princeps, et al. I even occasionally read about T. latisectus, which was introduced into general cultivation about a decade ago. But I rarely hear anything about T. martianus. It's a beautiful palm, more graceful than fortunei, in my opinion, but frustratingly difficult to grow in the Southeastern USA. Most places that have good conditions are just too cold, and I never hear of it being grown in Florida. I suspect this is because by the time you reach an area warm enough for its cultivation, there are just too many other wonderful palms out there.

I'm still trying to grow one. I've had this one in the ground for four years from a 3-gallon container. It's been slow for me, rarely putting out more than three or four leaves a year, but never suffering from cold damage, either. It doesn't seem to suffer (much) from nematodes, which our soils have an abundance of. My ex-dog liked chewing the leaves (one reason he is the EX-dog), which set it back a good bit last year. This year it seems to be plugging along. A fortunei under good conditions would have four or five feet of clear trunk by now.

Anyone else trying T. martianus?

[Tom_StMarys_GA]

Let me try again on the photo:

[Tom_StMarys_GA]

  Tom_StMarys_GA said:

Let me try again on the photo:

And, again:

[serj]

This Trachy is very beautiful. How is cold hardy T. martianus?

[Kris]

Dear Tom

Lovely palm and thanks for the visual !

love,

Kris

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Tom,

I have a T. martianus that has about 5 feet of woody trunk. I forgot when it was planted but it's been there quite a while. Mine gets about 75% broken shade and it's kind of stretched out and also very slow growing. The fronds are well away from ground level now and 2 years ago it took 23.5F with no damage. When it was younger 25 F damaged the foliage. They don't hold a lot of fronds and mine is eaisly broken up with strong winds.

I've seen some growing in full sun and they grow much tighter and look a lots tougher than mine. I have a smaller T. latisectus growing nearby, and it's also very slow for me, but undamaged by 23.5 F. I think both species would burn in my 100+ summer temps. if they didn't get part shade.

Dick

[tank]

I have a little one 3 years from seed that I put in the ground this spring here in Gainesville. It seems much happier in the ground and has been putting out about 1 leaf per month.

[_Keith]

  tank said:

I have a little one 3 years from seed that I put in the ground this spring here in Gainesville. It seems much happier in the ground and has been putting out about 1 leaf per month.

Has it made any winters in your area. You are Zone 8b, right?

[ghar41]

I grow many different species of Trachycarpus and martianus is currently holding its own as my favorite. The Nepalese variety has an airy appearance and beautiful lime green leaves....

[ghar41]

....and the Khasa Hills variation has Licuala-like spoke wheel leaves....

[ghar41]

But Trachycarpus latisectus is gaining favor quickly.

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Glenn! Nice seeing you at the PS meeting yesterday. Thanks for posting the compairson pictures as I've been wondering which kind of T.martianus mine was. I see mine is the Nepalese variety.

Dick

[tank]

  Keith from So. Louisiana said:

  tank said:

I have a little one 3 years from seed that I put in the ground this spring here in Gainesville. It seems much happier in the ground and has been putting out about 1 leaf per month.

Has it made any winters in your area. You are Zone 8b, right?

One winter in the pot, saw near 20F without protection. Put it into the ground this spring.

[ghar41]

  PalmGuyWC said:

Hi Glenn! Nice seeing you at the PS meeting yesterday. Thanks for posting the compairson pictures as I've been wondering which kind of T.martianus mine was. I see mine is the Nepalese variety.

Dick

Yea, I hope we have some more volunteers to show off their gardens...we didnt have enough Nor Cal meetings this year. T martianus is a beauty... and it did real well in the last freeze. I do believe a 1990 type freeze (18F) could jeopardize these plants....although I think they would survive it if they have 5 ft of trunk or so. The other Trachy of big interest to me is princeps...mine is still too small to tell.

The best all around Trachy for me is probably wagnerianus. So hardy (and wind resistant)...and yet so beautiful. If I lived in USDA zone 7, I'd start a palm garden with T wag's planted together in large groups, with R. hystrix in between. That would be a knockout.

Tom, have you tried T wagnerianus also? It is grows faster than martianus.

[MattyB]

That T. martianus Kashia Hills is every bit as handsome as the best looking Coccothrinax. Great cold hardy substitute.

[paulgila]

  PalmGuyWC said:

Hi Glenn! Nice seeing you at the PS meeting yesterday. Thanks for posting the compairson pictures as I've been wondering which kind of T.martianus mine was. I see mine is the Nepalese variety.

Dick

you northern folks had a PS meeting and there are no pix!!!what is going on up there?do you need the socal PRA team to come up & show you how its done?!?!

[MattyB]

I guess we need to set up a satellite office.

[Joe palma]

I am growing both the martianus and the latisectus with the largest being 15 gallon size and I have yet to find a spot for either of them in the yard.

It appears the martianus is the Nepalese form and is pretty slow as others have mentioned. Also mentioned is the lack of a large amount of fronds held at any one time. Definitely not like a fortunei. They were all grown from seed.

Last years cold in Jan. didn't faze any of them but I was no lower than 30F. Did have frost though and the martianus had no canopy.

Can't wait till my nanus gets big!

I agree w/ Glenn, the wagnerianus, at the moment, is my favorite.

[ghar41]

  Joe palma said:

I am growing both the martianus and the latisectus with the largest being 15 gallon size and I have yet to find a spot for either of them in the yard.

It appears the martianus is the Nepalese form and is pretty slow as others have mentioned. Also mentioned is the lack of a large amount of fronds held at any one time. Definitely not like a fortunei. They were all grown from seed.

Hi Joe,

Your mention of martianus' difficulty in holding a large number of fronds is a great observation. It has to be grown to near perfection for it to hold nice fronds as the petioles bend down toward the trunk. They tend to yellow and/or look ratty at that point. I have worked on different amounts of water and fertilizer and nothing seems to alleviate the problem completely. The ones Ive seen in habitat pictures appear similar.

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Trachycarpus/martianus.html

The best I can seem to do is one to three downward arching fronds.

[ghar41]

I agree w/ Glenn, the wagnerianus, at the moment, is my favorite.

[PalmGuyWC]

Hey Paul,

We may be shy on pictures in N. Calif, but we know how to read.

In reference to the sparcity of fronds on Martianus, I was told by Tobias (an expert) that it's the nature of the beast to hold few fronds. I water the hell out of mine, and it still holds few fronds. The odd thing about T. martianus is.......mine has 5 emerging spears and they seem to open up either in the spring or fall, and very few during the warmer months. I think T. martianus and latisectus are "nitch" palms, that like cool and moist, but not hot or cold. I bet they grow better in New Zealand or Tasmania, or even the UK than they do in Calif.

I agree with with you guys......T. wagnerianus is still my favorite, but once we get our T. principes to some size, we may change our mind. Even my small 1 gal size gets swoons.

Dick

[Don Little]

I agree that T wags and T latisectus are attractive palms imo T martianus is the most attractive of the trachycarpus species, even at a mature size. Here is a link to pictures of some mature specimens flowering and looking quite nice in full sun at HBG in Pasadena. Even though they seem not to hold a lot of leaves they seem to have a tropical look to them.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/38067/

Don

[Tom_StMarys_GA]

Trachycarpus as a genus does not do too well in my neck of the woods. I have a T. fortunei 'Nainital' that has poked along for five years, not growing much, and in the spring of '07 I planted a regular fortunei and wagnerianus here that so far are doing better. I suspect that nematodes are the culprit. One Trachycarpus that has done very well for me here in SE Georgia is T. nanus, which looks fantastic, about 18" high and with about 10 green leaves.

I grow most of my Trachycarpus at my wife's family farm about 40 miles south of Athens, GA, near the southern terminus of the Piedmont Plateau. There I have about 150 individual Trachycarpus palms of various cultivars, ranging from the 'Bulgaria' strain to 'Taylor,' and a whole bunch of who-knows-what. One of the more interesting forms I have is a T. 'Takaghii,' a cultivar I got back in 1995 and now has about eight feet of trunk. Its leaves are even more dainty than wagnerianus, and this one really demands more water and mulch than I can give it from a remove of some 250 miles. It tends to get some sun scorch but overall it has done well. It started producing seeds a couple of years ago (after a brief stint as a male, it came back in 2006 as a female) and while these are undoubtedly crossed with fortunei, it will be cool to see what the seedlings look like.

I agree that T. princeps will be the best-looking of the genus. I have a nice 3-gallon that is perfect, and a couple of 1-gallon seedlings that so far look to be the real thing. I can't wait to see what they will look like as mature plants. My ultimate goal would be to plant a grove of all known species and produce seeds true-to-type by restricting blooming each year.

Glenn --- thanks for the photo treatise on the different forms of T. martianus. Evidently I have the Nepal form, and now want the Khasia Hills form. Wow!

[tank]

Glenn,

That second pic of the tall wag is great! That thing is big.

I love the stiff leaves on wagnerianus.

Definitely my favorite Trachycarpus.

Strange that I've only seen a few in Florida.

I haven't heard too many negative reports of these in the southeast.

One of my little ones:

[Jeff in St Pete]

  ghar41 said:

....and the Khasa Hills variation has Licuala-like spoke wheel leaves....

Wow! That's a beautiful palm. I love the look of T. martianus also.

[Michel64]

I enjoy looking at all your pictures and compare your experiences to mine.

Here is my martianus, Nepal form?

Very slow grower, spear lost a few times when very young.

It remains untouched at 25°F, the palms were badly damaged at 20°F one time while the spear remained untouched.

This is a martianus growing in a Botanical Park near the Basque coast, on the spanish side near the french border, not too far from my place, with a similar climate, but freezes are a little bit less hard. The stem is about 6' high and it blooms.

And at last this is my wagnerianus, as fast as my fortunei's.

Michel

[palmdudetx]

  ghar41 said:

I grow many different species of Trachycarpus and martianus is currently holding its own as my favorite. The Nepalese variety has an airy appearance and beautiful lime green leaves....

Hello Glenn,

Could I trouble you and ask you if you know of a source you could recommend for T. Martianus and others you discuss.

Love the shots, thanks for bringing up this species. These are lovely palms for sure.

Thanks again,

Marvin

[kahili]

I just ordered an T. martianus after seeing the pictures of them here-I really like the looks of them. I think I will give it more sun than shade and that may speed up the growth some. I have a T. princeps in the ground, that I planted last summer-it was in a gallon, and I think it is the fastest growing palm that I have (except for maybe the W. robusta). It has doubled and then some in size in one year. Lots of leaves and is in full sun. Last winter we had quite a few nights (about 5-7) at 17 degrees and I did wrap it and stick a bucket over it and it came through the winter with no leaf damage at all. Is everyones else's growing this fast? It didn't until I planted it.

Tom-I think its the nematodes that are slowing down your trachys-I get really nice growth on mine up here and I am sure that its colder here. I have heard that the only real way to get rid of them is to cook the soil?

[tank]

  kahili said:

I just ordered an T. martianus after seeing the pictures of them here-I really like the looks of them. I think I will give it more sun than shade and that may speed up the growth some. I have a T. princeps in the ground, that I planted last summer-it was in a gallon, and I think it is the fastest growing palm that I have (except for maybe the W. robusta). It has doubled and then some in size in one year. Lots of leaves and is in full sun. Last winter we had quite a few nights (about 5-7) at 17 degrees and I did wrap it and stick a bucket over it and it came through the winter with no leaf damage at all. Is everyones else's growing this fast? It didn't until I planted it.

Tom-I think its the nematodes that are slowing down your trachys-I get really nice growth on mine up here and I am sure that its colder here. I have heard that the only real way to get rid of them is to cook the soil?

Michel,

Thank you for the pics!

Kahili,

My little one is growing quite fast and is pacing with my 3 larger T. fortunei and my little wagnerianus. It remains to be seen if nematodes do it in or if it succombs to the cold.

[Tom_StMarys_GA]

Kahili, if you have a pic of your princeps, I sure would like to see it. This species seems to be slowly creeping into cultivation. Nearly everyone I know who has one has JUST one so it will be a while before there is a seed source in the USA, and I'm afraid when that happens, most of what we get will be hybrids between princeps and fortunei. One of my goals is to assemble enough princeps and plant them in a relatively isolated area so a pure seed source could be obtained.

I agree with you about the nematodes here, and that's why most of my Trachycarpus are grown upstate on the farm. It's much easier to grow them there, and they look fantastic. However, I'm hard-headed and I am trying to grow the following in the ground here on the coast:

T. martianus

T. sp. 'Nainital'

T. fortueni

T. wagnerianus

T. sp. 'Manipur'

T. nanus

So far, the most successful species here has been T. nanus. Mine is a whopping 18 inches tall and doesn't seem to be affected by nematodes. The others are slow. Life is full of irony.

[kahili]

Tom-good point about the purity of the seed of a princeps-and it won't be from me most likely as I have two fortuneis about 35' away from the princeps, and other trachys as close to it as well. Good on you for separating them!

I am going to figure out how to post pictures here sooner or later...not the most computer literate, and I am in the middle of growing a huge crop right now so I can't take the time to figure it out (although John wrote a great tutorial for doing it in the beginner section). I do know how to load pictures on Dave's Garden-wonder if I could show it there and link that thread to this one?

I have a manipur also-but still in a gallon-seems a very slow grower for me-but very cool looking palm. I think next spring I will plant it and see if it speeds up like the princeps has. Also have the nanus, fortunei x wagnerianus, but still have to get a wagnerianus. I have to go look and see what other trachys I have. I have too many palms if I don't even remember them all....maybe. Anyone else not remember all the palms they have? Most of the tropical ones I have are clustered underneath a corkscrew willow with a bunch of larger tropical plants (gingers, heliconias , crinums etc) semi in front of them for some shade. I go in there once in a while and look at them, but I get my best look at them when I move them inside. I think I have about 80 in that spot-obsessive doesn't even fit....but they are all pretty.....all my little children!! lol just kidding-kind of going crazy with this crop. Crunch time for transplanting.

[Tom_StMarys_GA]

What kind of crop are you growing?

Here's a photo of T. princeps and T. sp. 'Manipur,' both in three-gallon containers. I grew up one batch of Manipur seed, and found them to be fairly vigorous if a little hard to get rooted into a pot; they seem kind of wobbly to me. I agree that the Manipur is interesting, and it's clearly not fortunei or princeps. I wonder what it is -- maybe it's own species. Who knows? I guess that's what makes it interesting.

[ghar41]

Hello Glenn,

Could I trouble you and ask you if you know of a source you could recommend for T. Martianus and others you discuss.

Love the shots, thanks for bringing up this species. These are lovely palms for sure.

Thanks again,

Marvin

South Coast Palms in Fallbrook has supplied many Trachy's for me. I'm sure Phil at Jungle Music has many great species also. Both do mail order.

http://www.plantsigns.com/palmlist.html

By the way....on the subject of Trachycarpus...one that we havent mentioned, which is maybe the big sleeper here is latisectus. It may surpass ALL others, as this is an exquisite palm.

[Jim in Los Altos]

  ghar41 said:

Hello Glenn,

Could I trouble you and ask you if you know of a source you could recommend for T. Martianus and others you discuss.

Love the shots, thanks for bringing up this species. These are lovely palms for sure.

Thanks again,

Marvin

South Coast Palms in Fallbrook has supplied many Trachy's for me. I'm sure Phil at Jungle Music has many great species also. Both do mail order.

http://www.plantsigns.com/palmlist.html

By the way....on the subject of Trachycarpus...one that we havent mentioned, which is maybe the big sleeper here is latisectus. It may surpass ALL others, as this is an exquisite palm.

Floribunda has really nice T. martianus. I know because I recently received four of them and they're beautiful. They were only a few dollars a piece plus shipping.

[kahili]

Tom, I am a wholesale bedding plant annual grower-translated, it means that I grow the annuals for landscapers for their commercial/residential properties and for universities/country clubs around here. Right now its pansies, which is a shorter crop than the spring crop-but more flats (because you plant them closer together than most of the flowers planted for summer) and very intense because of the short transplanting time that you get. This season is twice the size of past pansy seasons, and some of the larger orders came in much later than usual-so it really makes it tougher. Yet they want them on time and large.....landscapers-I have a love/hate relationship with them.

Your princeps looks exactly the size that mine was before I planted it-very short and compact. Now it is starting to put some space between the petioles, and the petioles are longer. Your manipur looks very elongated-is that normal? Is it in the sun or shade? Mine is younger so I dont know what its growing habit is-I do keep it in the sun. I will try to remember to go look at it today.

I will take pictures of all the palms that I have planted and in containers after this crop, but I will measure the princeps to give you an idea of its size this week.

[manuvericel]

  Tom_StMarys_GA said:

One of the more interesting forms I have is a T. 'Takaghii,' a cultivar I got back in 1995 and now has about eight feet of trunk. Its leaves are even more dainty than wagnerianus, and this one really demands more water and mulch than I can give it from a remove of some 250 miles. It tends to get some sun scorch but overall it has done well.

Tom,

I bought this palm as a waggy but now, I wonder if it could rather be a T. 'Takaghii'

[Darold Petty]

you northern folks had a PS meeting and there are no pix!!!what is going on up there?do you need the socal PRA team to come up & show you how its done?!?!

[PalmGuyWC]

Manu,

Your palms appear to be true T. wagnerianus with their stiff rigid fronds. I'm wondering who invented the name "Takaghii"? It's my understand they are nothing but a cross between T. wagnerianus and T. fortunei. (Anyone correct me if I'm wrong). I have numerous T. wagnerianus and T. fortunei of both sexes growing in close proximity. Hundreds of seedling germinate under the T. wags each year and they look just like T. fortunei. I pull them out as pest but I allowed a couple to grow into mature palms. The mature palms look just like T. fortunei.

I have found that T. wagnerianus seedlings are very distinct. The strap leaf fronds are short and stubby and have a heavy texture, much more so than T. Fortunei. At an early age they grow very small divided fronds where T. fortunei's grow much larger before they produce divided fronds and they are much larger and stretched out. Put side by side the seedlings are very distinct from each other.

Several years ago I purchased two small T. "Takaghii's," but this was before I heard they were a cross of Wags and fortunei's. They are now about 4 feet high, and they appear to be nothing but T. fortunei's. Apparently T. fortunei's have the dominent genes when crossed with T. wags., or else the plants I purchased are not T. Takaghii's.

Frankly, if I had it to do over I would never have planted T. fortunei's as they look ratty and weather beaten as they grow older. The fronds get beat out of shape from the winds and they brown tip while T. wagnerianus with their tough, rigid fronds look good when they get older. (I have some 25 feet high).

It's also a myth that T. wagnerianus are slow growing, maybe when they are small, but I planted 5 about 3 years ago less than knee high. They are now above my head and grow about 1.5 feet of trunk a year. The juvinile palms are georgeous and they hold many fronds.

Dick

[ghar41]

  Jim in Los Altos said:

  ghar41 said:

Hello Glenn,

Could I trouble you and ask you if you know of a source you could recommend for T. Martianus and others you discuss.

Love the shots, thanks for bringing up this species. These are lovely palms for sure.

Thanks again,

Marvin

South Coast Palms in Fallbrook has supplied many Trachy's for me. I'm sure Phil at Jungle Music has many great species also. Both do mail order.

http://www.plantsigns.com/palmlist.html

By the way....on the subject of Trachycarpus...one that we havent mentioned, which is maybe the big sleeper here is latisectus. It may surpass ALL others, as this is an exquisite palm.

Floribunda has really nice T. martianus. I know because I recently received four of them and they're beautiful. They were only a few dollars a piece plus shipping.

Hey Jim,

Jeff Marcus at Floribunda is great! He always sends great plants. You'll be very impressed with the Khasa Hills variety of martianus. Mine grow at about 1/3 the rate of fortunei though.

Ive been asking him about Trachys and many other cold hardy species over the years...glad to see he now has a few great Trachy's. He says he'd grow more....but other species rot in Hawaii. His current seedlings are probably good indicators of those species that will grow in Florida.

[Jim in Los Altos]

  ghar41 said:

  Jim in Los Altos said:

  ghar41 said:

Hello Glenn,

Could I trouble you and ask you if you know of a source you could recommend for T. Martianus and others you discuss.

Love the shots, thanks for bringing up this species. These are lovely palms for sure.

Thanks again,

Marvin

South Coast Palms in Fallbrook has supplied many Trachy's for me. I'm sure Phil at Jungle Music has many great species also. Both do mail order.

http://www.plantsigns.com/palmlist.html

By the way....on the subject of Trachycarpus...one that we havent mentioned, which is maybe the big sleeper here is latisectus. It may surpass ALL others, as this is an exquisite palm.

Floribunda has really nice T. martianus. I know because I recently received four of them and they're beautiful. They were only a few dollars a piece plus shipping.

Hey Jim,

Jeff Marcus at Floribunda is great! He always sends great plants. You'll be very impressed with the Khasa Hills variety of martianus. Mine grow at about 1/3 the rate of fortunei though.

Ive been asking him about Trachys and many other cold hardy species over the years...glad to see he now has a few great Trachy's. He says he'd grow more....but other species rot in Hawaii. His current seedlings are probably good indicators of those species that will grow in Florida.

Hey Glenn,

Jeff has a $100.00 minimum, and that's fine. The T.martianus were only $4.00 each and I ordered several Dypsis saintlucei, Beccariophoenix alfredii, and Pinanga javana. The P. javana are huge for one gallon plants.