middle east

[steve 9atx]

We're taking a trip to the middle east in October this year to see some friends:

specifically, we're going to Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Muscat, and Cairo as far south as

Dashur and maybe even the Faiyum. Anyone have any palm must-see's along

this route?

Steve

[paulgila]

steve maybe u should try again in the main forum,traffic here is kinda slow sometimes...

[epicure3]

I'm just sitting here waiting for you to post pics. You haven't gone yet? That's ok, I can wait.

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Steve,

I'm very curious to know what kind of palms grow in Dubai. I guess you know Emeritis has direct flights from Houston to Dubai now, but they are kind of pricey. I hear they have good service. I hope you get lots of pictures and post them on here.

Dick

[bigal954]

I just spent a couple weeks in Egypt from Cairo to Abu Simbel.

Date palms everywhere. I did see one very attractive palm at the Anwar Sadat

mamorial. Here is a picture of it.

Hope you have a good time on your trip.

Bring lots of sunscreen.

Allen

[Tess]

Steve,

You will be visiting the land of the Phoenix, dactylifera that is. Dates (tamar in Arabic) are big business in the Gulf and in the entire Middle East as well as North Africa. It's estimated that there are over 50 million trees growing on the Arabian Peninsula, some 200 plus varieties.

The local population eat many varieties and in diffefent stages of the dates' development. The Khlasa variety is said to be "the best" by some. The dried-up Medjool and Deglet Noor stuff you see in US supermarkets would never cut it there. Pick-up some Khlasa and wash them down with camel milk (when in Rome...).

With summer temperatures that can exceed 120F/50C in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Muscat, there aren't that many palms that can take it in this environment (not that it hasn't stopped the governments from planting ornamentals). If you'd like to see some lovely date farms, head out to Al-Ain, which is about an hour and a half drive from either AD city or Dubia on the road to Muscat on the UAE/Oman border. In addition to palms galore, Al-Ain has a museum and some neet old forts to visit.

-Tess

[Kris]

Dear Tess

that's a through report on the palms in meddle east.and 120 degree farenheat in summers there is burnning hot and the dates seem to love that temperature..

And in most of the date palm sites they quote quran that the feet of the date palm is in oisis while its head is taking the burning hot temperature...

And i must say your avatar is very intreasting & beautiful..

love,

Kris

[simona]

Except for Phoenix dactilifera & canariensis you will find Washis in Cairo and maybe some Chamaerops.

However you might find a lot more than those, growing in the Aswan Botanical Garden (Egypt).

[steve 9atx]

Dick

Yes Emirates flies direct due to the volume of travel for the "awl bidness".

The price used to be reasonable, until they found our what a poplar flight

it was, then, in true Arab fashion they raised the heck out of the prices.

We're flying Continental to London and Emirates to Dubai. Since they code-

share we can check our bags all the way through.

Allen

Are those washy's? I guess the message is to not look for anything "exotic".

That's ok, if someone put a gun to my head and demanded to know my

favorite palm, I'd have to confess it would be P. dactylifera.

Tess

Thanks for the Al-Ain tip. We'll definitely try to make this one as it's along

our itinerary route. BTW, I was at the nurseryman's show with Tad on

Friday and talked to a fellow who has a secret P. dact in the Rio Grande

Valley that they are talking about coming up with a cultivar name for.

Apparently it produces well in our humid climate, resists LY, and is resistant

to trunk rot as some of the Middle Eastern varieties suffer from here.

They take them from a few clumps that have been growing wild in the

Valley for well over 100 years.

Simona

Unfortunately, we're not making it as far south as Aswan on this trip. Are

there any botanical gardens farther north that you know of? My only other

palm wish while over there would be to see a big Hyphaene thebaica in

habitat.

Thanks all for the input,

Steve

[simona]

Hi Steve,

Well, can't help with more information, sorry.

You might try to contact The American University in Cairo to find out about some locations near to Cairo of the Doum palm.

They seem to run a "Name a tree" type donation and have 10 Hyphaene thebaica somewhere outer campus http://www.aucegypt.edu/aboutauc/Campusand...ages/Trees.aspx

[steve 9atx]

All

Thanks for the helpful hints, here're some pics from our trip:

Huni/Snefru's pyramid at Meidum across a typical Nile valley scene.

The Nile valley is an enchanting landscape with literally forests

of Phoenix dactylifera's with cabbages the size of basketballs growing

underneath.

Going down inside the Meidum pyramid! I just knew we would be

immortalized by an earthquake while inside....... We went inside

Titi's pyramid at Saqqara as well. Two is plenty. The antiquities

police said we would probably be the only people at Meidum all day,

so we got a military escort (four private soldiers in the back of a

compact Toyota pickup truck) from there on for the rest of the day.

[steve 9atx]

Another Nile valley scene with massive, healthy dactylifera's.

The date palms in the Emirates looked life they were on life

support compared to the Egyptian palms. We ate plenty of

fresh dates as it was harvest season (nice, cool, Fall-like weather

too). In the date souk in Abu Dhabi, we came away with

chocolate-covered, almond-stuffed dates, and what they reckon

as the best eating fresh dates from Saudi. And, Tess, you are

right, what passes for dates in the US, they wouldn't feed their

animals.

Pic on the edge of the desert at Dashur where you can just

make out the "Bent" pyramid on the horizon - you can't put

a razor blade between the casing stones of that puppy. Our

guide had an interesting theory in that regard......

http://www.hanyra.com/index_files/The_Broken_Vase_theory.htm

[ErikSJI]

We're taking a trip to the middle east in October this year to see some friends:

specifically, we're going to Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Muscat, and Cairo as far south as

Dashur and maybe even the Faiyum. Anyone have any palm must-see's along

this route?

Steve

I here Tiger woods New golf course being built out there with the many million dollar mansions being built around it. Have some amazing palms. There might even be a web page up if you do a google on Tiger woods Dubai.

[steve 9atx]

View of Cairo and the Nile from our hotel balcony. Beside

all the diesel smoke, farmers in the delta burn their fields

this time of year - all that smoke blows down through Cairo

making visibility (and I must say breathing) kind of short.

You can't much tell from the pic, but there are mature date

palms everywhere along with some good size Royals,

Washingtonia's, a few dessicated Cocos, and of course the

potted Chamaedoreas and Adonidias. I didn't get to see

anything "exotic" for me like Hyphaene Thebaica. However,

when I told our guide the other name was "Doum" he took

me right to a market where you could buy the big Doum

seeds in a bag.

Same view at night. The party boats and feluccas will take

you out for a five minute ride with Arabic music blaring. We

didn't take them up on the offer. The music continued until

the wee hours.

[steve 9atx]

Jamel for riding at Zoser's step pyramid at Saqqara. Saqqara

was particularly powerful for me as this complex was designed

by the first architect for whom we have a name: Imhotep. In

fact, this fellow was so well respected that he was regarded as

a minor deity into the Ptolemaic era. Of course, I believe all

architects should be regarded this highly.......

These curious young ladies won't fare as well as the previous

dude. They're hobbled, fenced, and fattened up to be served

at a wedding party. Did you know the Arab head dress is actually

a camel hobble? Apparently, the historical imposition of a Persian

king on the Arabs he defeated in battle.

[osideterry]

Love that first photo of Snefru's pyramid. The dacts are majestic in their setting. I like dates and can't imagine tasting the ones there. Cool white camel also. Thanks for the tour.

[steve 9atx]

"Bandaged" date palm in Abu Dhabi. Does anyone know

what this is about? The only thing I can think of is to shade

the fronds during transplanting to cut down on water loss.

It's strange driving from the unamended desert of Dubai

to the 1000's of transplanted trees in Abu Dhabi. The have

a desalination plant that seems four miles long from the

highway that drip irrigates all these transplanted dates, ficus,

acacias, mangoes, you name it, even turf grass! Talk about

your conspicuous consumption. I had to laugh, there was

a "Green" convention in Dubai while we were there. They

must have burned a cubic kilometer of natural gas at their

de-sal plant during that convention.

A view of the Burge Al Arab in Dubai from the water park

at the entrance. We didn't go in because I think it costs like

$45 just to park and go inside. You can see the heliport Tiger

Woods was driving balls off of near the top.

[steve 9atx]

The oasis at Al Ain in the Emirate of Abu Dhabi. This is a giant

palm plantation, essentially, which is fed by underground spring

water from beneath the nearby mountain Jebel Hafit. The people

that tend these palms actually live under them in the oasis. The

Jebel also has plenty of oil under it too - my buddy with Oxy is

trying to figure out the best angle to punch his holes under it as

we speak.

My wife cheatin on me with an "older man" from Giza.

[steve 9atx]

My wife (on the left) having fun with her buddy in the Islam-

approved getup at the Sheik Nayad Mosque in Abu Dhabi.

This thing is clad with a sea of white Italian marble and is

so large, they had to reduce it's size three times because

they kept trying to make it bigger than the Grand Mosque

at Mecca!

Tricia and I on our desert dune drive. This is where you let

the air out of the tires of a Land Cruiser and drive up, down,

and sideways through 50'+ sand dunes. I thought we were

going to die. You know, the sand is so fine, it's not terribly

easy to walk in either without sinking up to your ankles. But,

we were rewarded with a beer, dips, mixed grill, and a belly

dancer at a desert camp afterwards.

[steve 9atx]

My wife and her buddy wearing out the jamels. Look! no hands.

Our friends, Jack and Mer having too much fun with the shisha.

[steve 9atx]

Speaking of the shisha, we had a little layover in Amsterdam on

the way back. Here's a seed menu most of us aren't used to

seeing on RPS or Ortanique.......

Nothing to do with palms, just your classic Amsterdam canal shot.

All in all a wonderful and fun trip. Especially LOVED Egypt: the food,

people, and the antiquities can't be beat. Some advice if you want

to go:

1.) Have a guide in Egypt (I HIGHLY recommend our fellow on the

pyramid theory post).

2.) Take Rifaximin prophylactically while your there and then eat

everything you want including unwashed guava off the carts on the

side of the road (be sure you have your Hep A, B, Tetanus, etc. - see

your travel medicine nurse before you go or go to the CDC website).

Egyptian fast food like small pitas stuffed with refried-bean-consistency

foul medammas or fresh fried falefel is unbelievablytasty!

3.) Eat at least one meal in Cairo at Abu El Sid.

4.) Drink plenty of Egyptian beer, especially Stella.

5.) Go back later. We will.

Peace, out

Steve

[simona]

"Bandaged" date palm in Abu Dhabi. Does anyone know

what this is about? The only thing I can think of is to shade

the fronds during transplanting to cut down on water loss.

Right, it's usual here to bandage palms during transplantation. Bandage stays on for a year after, or until well established & new leaf growth.

[Gileno Machado]

(Quote) "You will be visiting the land of the Phoenix, dactylifera that is. Dates (tamar in Arabic) are big business in the Gulf and in the entire Middle East as well as North Africa."

I always wondered where did the portuguese word "tâmara" come from (for "date").

Thanks Steve for the very interesting pictures and comments. Phoenix dactylifera seeds are really top resistant: A friend here brought us some caramelized dates candy from his trip to Israel and I still managed to sprout several seedlings from them, even after they've been cooked and processed...

[FRITO]

Great photo tour, looks like you got a real authentic experience! thats an area not as common as other travel destinations. Dubai is going crazy with construction.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Steve, great photos of an interesting place! I've never been to that part of the world before. Thanks for posting!

[paulgila]

thoroughly enjoyable travel pix,steve. i really liked that 1st shot with the pyramid in the background & the night

pix in cairo were "fentestic"(sorry kris,didnt mean to steal your trademark).

[bubba]

How did I miss this one!What a Post and trip!Your wife and the Giza is priceless.Those Oxford girls are all keepers if you can just hang on.Also wondering why you dragged that Sisha from Abu Dhabi to Amsterdam and never inhaled.Still waiting for my seeds.Joking aside,Thank you for allowing us to take part in your sojourn.You need to retab this so others do not miss it!

[JakeK]

Looks like it was a great trip Steve. Egypt and Oman are two places I'd like to visit sometime.

[jam99]

Steve, great photos!

My wife cheatin on me with an "older man" from Giza.

Sphinx is meant to be of a feminine gender

[Tess]

Steve,

Thanks for the pics and glad you had a pyramid-seein-camel-ridin-sheesha-smokin-wadi-bashin good time.

Egypt really is something else...magnificent history...and Cairo, wow, I always thought that New York and London were big cities until I visited Cairo.

Also glad you made it to Al-Ain. Those little canals (afalaj) are an ingenious and quite old system for watering the date gardens. The canopy the phoenix create can lower the temperature by twenty degrees (F), so houses are placed along the leeward edges of gardens; Hot air funnels under the canopy and cools, blowing more tolerable air against the homes. Yep, another reason why palms are cool.

I take it you are an architect? Did you happen to visit the Bastakia quarter of Dubai? The windtowers there are another simple but brilliant mechanism to provide natural air conditioning to an insufferable climate.

Good stuff. Thanks again,

-Tess

[steve 9atx]

Tess

You are beyond me re: the local lingo. Suffice it to say, our guide took us into this place:

the mastaba tomb of Mere-Ruka and his family, something like 2350 BC....

Before we went in our guide said to us that, to him, the inside of this tomb was probably

the most important place on Earth. Sorry, no photos inside; but, we came away, pale

and in awe of what was recorded therein. I can't explain it in words here, but I agree with

him, that if know what you're looking at, it might change a person's appreciation of life......

Steve

p.s. Tess, you're right. I am an Architect. But my degree before that was Art History; so I

knew my Bastet from my Hathor from my Sekhmet already.

p.p.s. I'll try to post some wind tower pics from the Emirates if you're interested. Other than

convecting 130 degree air for 131 degree air, I couldn't see the use for them. BTW, they're

all AC'ed now!

Edited November 30, 2008 by steve 9atx

[tropicalb]

great pics Steve!....could you post any more of Dubai please? I've watched every show i could find about it on cable and find the construction there fascinating! Any pics of the "palm island"?

thanks!

[simona]

Tess

You are beyond me re: the local lingo. Suffice it to say, our guide took us into this place:

the mastaba tomb of Mere-Ruka and his family, something like 2350 BC....

Before we went in our guide said to us that, to him, the inside of this tomb was probably

the most important place on Earth. Sorry, no photos inside; but, we came away, pale

and in awe of what was recorded therein. I can't explain it in words here, but I agree with

him, that if know what you're looking at, it might change a person's appreciation of life......

Steve

Hello Steve,

Could you please try to explain: "(...) that if know what you're looking at, it might change a person's appreciation of life..."

Here's an interesting site who wants to see more of this mastaba:

http://www.osirisnet.net/mastabas/mererouk...mereruka_01.htm

[Kris]

thoroughly enjoyable travel pix,steve. i really liked that 1st shot with the pyramid in the background & the night

pix in cairo were "fentestic"(sorry kris,didnt mean to steal your trademark).

Dear Paul

you are at liberty to use it !

And by the way the stills are really fentastic especially the ones with phoenix in it !

lots of love,

Kris

[Eric in Orlando]

I'm posting photos of some palms growing in Dubai in the main forum.

[steve 9atx]

Burt

I see if I can find some time this week to post a few more Dubai/Palm Jumeirah pics.

Simona

Let me see if I can explain what I mean. When you go inside this tomb, it is not terribly large. Not counting his

wife or son's areas, there are probably only a half dozen chambers or so dedicated to Mere-Ruka. In these rooms,

there is a continuous running bas relief carved in limestone plaster running from about knee high to waist or chest

high - most everything above was destroyed by the collapse of the building. The monumental figures were high up

on the wall. What is left are small figures, probably an average standing man at 6"-8" tall. They are arranged in

narrative bands describing daily life in 6th Dynasty Old Kingdom Egypt.

In one scene, there is a fishing scene where it shows how they used cast and seine nets. There is a fellow on a

boat fishing with a line rigged with five fish hooks on it! Underneath the scene, there are determinative carvings of

the various species of fish they ate out of the Nile (a majority looked like catfish of various sorts). Probably 25

different fish are shown. They are so correct and detailed that modern Biologists immediately recognize each species.

The one or two that are unknown are thought to be extinct or made so in Egypt by damming the Nile.

In another scene, it shows how herders coax a herd of cattle across the river by carrying the "bell cow's" calf ahead.

Of course, the bell cow follows along with the rest of the herd. One cow gets caught by a crocodile and in her panic

defecates as the crocodile pulls her under the water.

Another scene showed dwarf metal workers smelting gold. Apparently, dwarfs were used due to the fact that they

couldn't out-run their overseers. Even though we think of much of Egyptian art as "conventional" in the sense of

faces in profile with eyes in full-face, anatomical proportions, etc. conventions are used, the dwarfs were absolutely

anatomically correct. That is, they varied in proportion of limbs and heads just as in life.

A final scene shows a party with all the "dance moves" so clearly depicted that my wife and I stood there and

mimicked them. In one, two people stand with their hands over their heads with hands clasped and twirl in opposite

directions - kinda like a ballet move. It's not easy, but you can do it! It's fun too. I guess they were tanked up on

Egyptian beer.

I suppose that for the first time, these people were not the objectified subjects of study to me. For the first time,

I could finally feel the flesh on their ancient bones. From the wall art, all of their humanity came through as clear as

day. You get a real sense of their humor and love of life.

Steve

[steve 9atx]

Jam

Dobry vecer! (maybe "dobre den" where your are). The sphinx, extraterrestrial and previously-carved lion head

theories notwithstanding is supposed to be the head of Khufu himself, not a girl. Greek sphinx's maybe different....

Please advise if/how you understand otherwise.

dewd

Please let me know if the "bigfile" Egyptian music transfer worked and/or if you want a few more.

Tess

Here're your Arab wind towers, best example I could find at the Sheikh Saeed House in the old part of Dubai near

"Dubai Creek" (really a tidal bayou):

Steve

[steve 9atx]

Burt

Here's a few pics re: your Dubai curiosity. I apologize in advance for their display of my negative prejudice

against the place. IMHO, the few true monuments, like the Burj Dubai may have been designed by fellas

with a clue, but 95% of the seemingly hundreds of 35-odd story apartment buildings and office towers are

what we refer to in architectural jargon as "piles". This term doesn't necessarily connote a "pile of #&@*".

What it refers to is a sophomoric design tendency that tries to incorporate as many "moves", parti's (sorry,

more jargon), materials, and recent and distant historical architectural references into one building as possible.

The result is always much worse that a utilitarian, engineer-designed structure.

Another thing that floored me during our limo ride from Dubai to Abu Dhabi the night we arrived in the UAE

was that of the scores and scores of apartment towers that line the highway west from town I estimate that

maybe 15-20% had lights on in them; not 15-20% of the units, 15-20% of the buildings. This doesn't count

the buildings under construction - I could tell them by their temporary construction lighting.

Another problem with photographing Dubai is that the whole place is a construction site surrounded by massive

traffic jambs. If you wanted to get out of the car for a quick pic, you're liable to get run over (or arrested).

Here's a pic that should give you a sense of the relative scale of the Burj Dubai relative to the rest of the high-

rise fabric. It was taken over the site of a demo'ed condo near the beach who's value didn't keep up with the

dirt:

Here's another from the car - I'd be in the tower crane bid'ness in Dubai if it wasn't so damned hard to find a beer:

Steve

Edited December 5, 2008 by steve 9atx

[steve 9atx]

Here's a pic down the main drag onto the Palm Jubeirah:

Our desert dune driver made the trip out for the grand opening of the Atlantis a few weeks ago and took a

bunch of pics of the light show and fireworks. PM me with your email address and I'll forward his pics.

Here's a typical Palm Jubeirah scene showing the LARGE houses that fan out onto the "fronds" of the island.

I like this one because someone gave the a cell tower the "pineapple cut".

Edited December 5, 2008 by steve 9atx

[steve 9atx]

A couple more to get you in the spirit of the Season, Burt. Here's the ski slope inside the Mall of the Emirates.

Ho Ho Ho:

Steve

Edited December 5, 2008 by steve 9atx