How often do you water?

[DippyD]

So here is my question. obviously palms love water and warmth, but how can you tell if you are watering to much or too little. ive been landscaping my yard for about six months now and have several palms in the ground. the yard was pretty well drained but did consist of some clay which we rototilled mulch into it to help break it up. and after planting we've been placing a rich topsoil to cover everything. some of the palms will be pushing and some seem to be at a screaming hualt. i purchased 3 chambeyronias from rancho soledad which i understand are shade grown and i put them in quite a bit sun. one seems that its not going to mack it like the crown is mushy and the other two are doing well but havnt pushed much in the lsat month. i am worried that i am not watering enough one week and the next i think im watering to much. hope a few of you can help me out with my problem.

Thanks Palmfreek!

[Walter John]

Chambeyronia palms are slow to get going but I couldn't imagine them being over watered if in good drainage position in ground, especially in hot conditions.

Have you any photos to help us with your questions ?

What other species are you growing ?

[DippyD]

Wal,

ill snap some pictures tomorrow now that its getting a little dark out. here is a list of what i have growing.

Palms:

3 chambeyronia macro watermellon var.

2 chambeyronia hookerii

5 rhopalostylis sapidas

2 dypsis decipiens

dypsis hetermorpha

dypsis baronii

Roystonea regia

Cycads:

Enceph. Longifulis blue form

Enceph. Lemahnii

2 eceph. ferox

but even the baronii have slowed down, the royal has. i have no critters that would be cruzing eating the roots either so im kindof unsure. like the chambeys have been in the ground for about 6 months now and havnt opened a new frond. how slow will the grow rate slow when put into sun? another things is i do live a couple miles from the coast so we dont see to much heat 80's in the summer.

[osideterry]

If you just planted these palms within the past year, don't expect too much. All the action is going on underground. A lot of palms seem to sulk for the first year. The last week or so here might have been hot enough to slow down the rhopies. Next year the growth will be more impressive.

[DippyD]

what would you recommend for amounts of water? the palms are still in need of water even though they might be in shock i am just worried about over watering or under watering. i have time to watch it grow but i just want a new frong to open up on them chambys.

thanks terry

[Shon]

I live about 8 miles inland and water about three days a week. I mulch heavily though. From what I have read you are pretty close to the ocean. As long as you mulch you should have no problem with 3 to 4 days a week. I would only go with 4 on Santa Ana weeks. Terry's right about palms going pretty dormant the first year especially in So Cal.

[newtothis]

  Palmfreek said:

Palms:

3 chambeyronia macro watermellon var.

2 chambeyronia hookerii

5 rhopalostylis sapidas

2 dypsis decipiens

dypsis hetermorpha

dypsis baronii

Roystonea regia

Cycads:

Enceph. Longifulis blue form

Enceph. Lemahnii

2 eceph. ferox

Dude throw in a few archontophoenix myolensis and this is exactly what I'm going for! No joke how funny!! But I'm 8b/9a and don't expect many will do well..

[Kim]

I've had my timers set for 3 days a week, and recently, that's not enough. High summer requires more water. I'm kicking it up to every day for one week, then I'll back off a bit.

[DippyD]

newtothis,

you know i have never been hapier with my selection of palms and really look forward for them to start growing and mature... i have looked at several gardens and thes seem to all do really well here in the socal area and luckily they are the most attractive to me. i can get enough of chambys every frond thats opens amazes me. i know its a little off topic but what have you got in the ground at your place?

ill post some pictures tomorrow like i said and show you my layoutof what i got!

palmfreek

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

PF:

I'm a neighbor of yours, albeit waaaay hell (oops!) up north in the far northern extremity of the OC, and we have clay, rhymes with Queen of the May, and I water once a week, more or less, with sprinklers set for about a half hour to an hour or so.

Mostly, things thrive as others will attest.

If you have clay, lucky you.

If not, you'll need to water less long more often.

[newtothis]

Well as my name suggest I'm just getting started. I just recieved my first order of 5 A.myolensis and they are only 3 leaf seedlings now. They are in pots 2/2/1. The c.macrocarpa watermelon will be next but I might splurge and get one a few feet high. I do have a washy in a pot thats about 5' but thats the biggest one. I also have 33 CIDP seedlings, I might put one in the front, one in the back, and hand out the rest to neighbors to get the neighborhood going (my wife thinks this is embarrasing)

We are in a new constructed house and I have basically got the beds done with red tips for hedges, a few cyads, and lantana for bordering. I plan to keep the red tips trimmed to fence height and plant palms in front of them. I also havea couple dynamite red crepe myrtle I will put palms next to. I am visioning them growing into/mixing with the palm leaves I think it would look great until the palm gets 40' high LOL. Oh I also have a 3' pindo in the front.

I have a long before all this will grow enough to be impressive but that's the plan. I will also take some pics tomorrow morning to show what I mean.

Scott

[DoomsDave]

  newtothis said:

Well as my name suggest I'm just getting started. I just recieved my first order of 5 A.myolensis and they are only 3 leaf seedlings now. They are in pots 2/2/1. The c.macrocarpa watermelon will be next but I might splurge and get one a few feet high. I do have a washy in a pot thats about 5' but thats the biggest one. I also have 33 CIDP seedlings, I might put one in the front, one in the back, and hand out the rest to neighbors to get the neighborhood going (my wife thinks this is embarrasing)

We are in a new constructed house and I have basically got the beds done with red tips for hedges, a few cyads, and lantana for bordering. I plan to keep the red tips trimmed to fence height and plant palms in front of them. I also havea couple dynamite red crepe myrtle I will put palms next to. I am visioning them growing into/mixing with the palm leaves I think it would look great until the palm gets 40' high LOL. Oh I also have a 3' pindo in the front.

I have a long before all this will grow enough to be impressive but that's the plan. I will also take some pics tomorrow morning to show what I mean.

Scott

mongo LIKE picture!

[DippyD]

dave,

queens and may i have.... i dug some rather large holes and mounded them up pogobob is a close neighbor and hes has been over a few times and has said once or twice a week also. its just a tough call since the top soil looks dry as a bone but down deep it could be a little more damp...but every little bit knowledge helps!

thanks!

[DippyD]

Kim,

how is your soil? fast draining or a heavy clay?

[Tyrone]

Palmfreek, this is a really hard question to answer for someone else in a different area to ones own. As you know climates vary within climate zones etc. Water requirements depend on soil type, air temp, humidity levels, wind speeds, shade or sun etc, and especially on the types of palms being grown.

Firstly all the species you've got except for Dypsis decipiens love lots of water. Roystonia regia is at home in a swamp for example. Even Dypsis decipiens doesn't mind heavy watering provided it can dry out between watering, especially if it's in fullsun, which is the best way to grow it.

If you have lots of clay, be careful watering too much, especially in the cooler weather. However if you have perfect drainage, all of your above species would be almost impossible to overwater during the growth months.

Dry hot, windy weather will evaporate things extremely quickly. You could almost leave the irrigation on permanently and not over water in those conditions. I wouldn't neccesarily say, "Leave it all on" during those periods but you get what I mean.

Obviously if you ammend the soil with good compost and vegetation, it will absorb water better, and present them to the plants in a useful way, versus pure sand which will leach everything away and evaporate really quickly, needing much higher watering times and amounts.

Basically, you'll need to experiement a bit to see what works. Invest in a soil moisture meter to see what's going on below the surface. Watering requirements can take a few years to totally figure out. Your plants will tell you if they're getting enough, but unless you're on clay and it's cold weather, it's almost impossible to overwater your palms.

Best regards

Tyrone

[DippyD]

tyrone,

thanks for the reply every little bit helps.... it seems that there is clay but i seem to think i did a good enough job adding mulch and so forth, im sure i will figure out what they like the most but with a picture ill post tomorrow it might help. one of the chambys seems to be very soft and seems to be dying. not sure if this is from to much water to little to much sun and so forth. it was a hawaii grown palm put straight into the socal sun, this could also be a problem but the other 2 seem to be holding on strong just not much pushing of its nex spike.. thanks again!

Palmfreek

[BS Man about Palms]

I would follow Bob's advice, he's the closest to you and has been doing it a long time. That being said, you can't beat "finger digging" dig down six to 10 inches about a foot away, is the soil damp? If so, go easy on the water until you see growth. (by the way ARE YOU MARKING IT TO BE SURE?) If they are happy and growing, step up the water.

[Tyrone]

Palmfreek, Did you get your Hawaiin Chambey's in barerooted?

Best regards

Tyrone

[Kim]

  Palmfreek said:

Kim,

how is your soil? fast draining or a heavy clay?

Fast draining. In most areas. It's variable. But most is fast draining if already wet.

[DippyD]

Bill, i am marking the spikes to be deffinate, ill do a dig test and check it out to see what i have going for me.

Tyrone, they where not really bare-root, basically rooting out of the pot but when i got them from rancho soledad they where fresh off the boat.

Kim, did you start out with alot of clay did you have good soil to start out with?

Palmfreek

[Kim]

It's an old garden; it was pretty good when I moved in 22 years ago.

[DippyD]

lucky you! mine looked like bs mans for about 10 and it was finally time to get it going but its not the easiest task.. lot more work than i thought it was going ot be thats for sure!

[Tyrone]

Palmfreek, the one that's gone all soft doesn't sound hopeful. I'd say that coming straight from humid Hawaii, maybe in a greenhouse etc, and then into strong hot drier sun may have shocked them a tad. The other two are probably just adjusting, but the last one with a soft growing point is ominous. It may not have been able to adjust and is most likely dead already. I hope not, but keep it moist anyway. It may be OK, but my mind says not. It's not a watering issue etc, but an acclimatising issue IMO. Try applying seaweed and fish emulsion to them. I always use that on newly planted palms for a while for acclimatising reasons.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Big Tex]

Our irrigations system runs for 20 minutes every morning from March to December. Usually from May to September when the evening temperatures are still in the high 90's, I will give all of our palsm a quick shower with a hose.

[Big Tex]

Our irrigations system runs for 20 minutes every morning from March to December. Usually from May to September when the evening temperatures are still in the high 90's, I will give all of our palsm a quick shower with a hose.

[DoomsDave]

  Palmfreek said:

lucky you! mine looked like bs mans for about 10 and it was finally time to get it going but its not the easiest task.. lot more work than i thought it was going ot be thats for sure!

What kind of soil do you have?

[MattyB]

Palmfreek, If you're in San Clemente you probably don't need to water more than 2 times per week at the hottest. Even if you're garden is new, got great drainage, and especially because you mulch. I live 8 miles inland, have great drainage and get full blazing sun all day on my hillside and the most I water is 2 times per week for my "rainforest" area. If it's hot and things are growing fast and happy you can pile on the water and maybe push them a bit more but it's really not necessary. I watered a lot more when I first started but soon realized that if your water is going into the ground (not just running off) then a layer of mulch will keep it quite moist underneath the surface for a long time. I watered my Majesty palm pretty much everyday during warm months for a year to get it established. Now it can be watered only once a week in the heat of summer and looks perfect. The trick in that spot is that I can't just spray the hose over it and think it's watered, I've gotta put a little sprinkler on it and dribble it for half an hour. Even waterlovers don't need to be watered that much once they're established for a few years. You've just gotta get a feel for it.

As far as things seeming like they've stopped growing: Like others mentioned, sometimes when they feel that root freedom they just go gangbusters underground but reward you with little top growth. But large roots = healty plants, so it's ok. Also, you're right about things being moved into sun. Sometimes they just pretty much stop and go, "whoa, what the heck is all that light?" It takes them 2-3 leaves to get used to it. Also, you said you brought in top soil. I swear that when I brought in good topsoil for my planters, my plants stopped growing. I think the natural bacteria, worms and other good stuff that you find in native soil needs to get established first before plants can thrive. I added worms and it seemed to get going. You've gotta get a good soil decomposition going first before your nitrogen can get back to normal levels.

[palmcurry]

I live in San Clemente and I water twice a week. Three times if it gets in the nineties for 3 days or more. Of the list you posted I have D.baroni and D.decipiens and they do great. Plus a few chamaedoreas(sensitive suckers!) that do fine too. Here in SC we have 'coastal sun' which goes a long way...don't have to worry about watering too little. I think 99% of the soil here has very good drainage with good nutrient. O-side Terry's advise is right...give the palms some time to root down. Go to pizza port for a shark bite red and enjoy the last bit o'summer!

[nachocarl]

What a great and timely topic since the water flow has been turned down from the north (smelt need water too I guess). From the posts it would seem that I am watering way too much, although I am down 17% as compared to last year, it has been a mild summer though. The grass takes the most water and I have let some of the dry spots go this year but I should rip it all out and plant more palms anyway.

I have a hillside planting with a drip system that comes on 3x per week for an hour with anywhere from 1GPH to 5 GPH emitters. The R. Borinquena, R. Rivularis, Avo and Brugmansia get the 5 GPH, whereas the D. leptocheilos and Wodeytia get 3GPH. Howeas and Gardenia thunbergia get 1 GPH emitters.

I did have a C. gigas at the top of the hill for about 4 years and decided to rip it out this year because the only way to keep it green was to dump buckets and buckets of water on it. In hindsight I should have planted it in lower on the hill, but it would have eventually been too big for the lot anyway. I replaced it with a D. decaryi and turned off the water and wow what a difference! Gone is the yellow flame kissed look and in is the blue, green, maroon look. Success!

I guess watering is kind of like fertilizer and soil type, you have to figure out what you have and adjust for it. The drip systems are the best though since you can regulate it at the source and really customize it. The use of shut off valves at each emitter, foggers, sprayers, drips etc really allows you to tailor your system to your needs. I have two systems, one for the hill with the trees and one for hanging baskets with Tuberous Begonias, Fuchsias, Nepenthes and Staghorn ferns. If I didn’t have it for the hanging baskets those would all die when I'm on the road, wife takes care of kids not plants.

[bgl]

I realize that water is a major issue in California, so you obviously don't want to waste it. That being said, if drainage is excellent, it's impossible to overwater about 95% of all palms. The more water, the faster they will grow - to a point. We had 172 inches here in one year a couple of years ago, and palms from dry areas (Hyphaene, Bismarckia, Dypsis decipiens) grow like crazy!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here in NE FL, our average rainfall is about 5' per year. The way I figure it, once a plant is established, it's on it's own. I don't want to pay for the water, and philosophically, I think it's crazy that FL uses 1/2 of the potable water on Grass (mostly). Thus, I virtually never water anything thats in the ground once it's established. I've even been replacing the St Augustine Grass with other species that don't need irrigation.

[ariscott]

I water to the condition. In the dry season, as it was cold and dry, I did it every second day. The plants seem to appreciate it. Otherwise they look absolutely awful!! Now that the build-up has started and humidity has risen to 'normal' tropical condition.... depending on how hot the days get, I might reduce the watering to twice a week. If it is a 40 deg (celcius) day, I would water... The watering is not automated yet at my place, so I can still turn the bore on or off as I pleased. Also, all my plants are young, so they need more water to get established.

In the wet season, when the storm has started rolling in and monsoonal rain after that.... no watering for me!!!! Can't wait for the day.... and then everything will grow like mad, including the weeds . I hope that helps....

Regards, Ari

Edited September 6, 2008 by ariscott

[CardiffPalmNut]

Palmfreek - I have two Chambey's from Rancho Soledad that have been in the ground 5 years they get three days a week for about 16 minutes in the winter and 5 days in the summer. It seems with them that " First they sleep then they creep and then they leap" Mine have finally got to the "leap stag" but that still only mean about three new "flames" a year. Good Luck!

Bill

[_Keith]

Typical advice down here in clay soil is that is better to water long deep and less often, rather than quick, shallow and every day. Now, when a plant is newly planted one has to water more often, but we slowly taper off. Here too, after 3 years of establishment it is rare to have to provide supplemental irrigation at all, but then again, this ain't So Cal. But I bet, the water long deep and less often" rule applies as it encourages the palm to put down more deep roots rather than a larger number of shallow ones that dry out easily.