Dypsis "Big Curly"

[Gtlevine]

I absolutely love this Mardy Darian specialty he calls Dypsis "Big Curly". As a matter of fact, I like it better than Dypsis "White Stem" the famous palm. It is massive and hardy even in So Cal. B.S. Man of Palms says one in San Clemente is 20 inches at the base and still no trunk. I have mine pictured below, it has nine foot leaves and the base is a foot thick. Just this year it put out two leaves already and the new spear should open in two weeks. I think by summers end it will have opened four leaves, thats fast by any standards, especially for a large Madagascar palm. Anyone have any of this species in the ground outside of California? maybe some of you in Australia have it as well? If you have one, please post some photos, I would like to see some different plants. As of now, I only know of Doc Darian collecting this palm and have only seen it in So Cal and one at Jeff Marcus in Hilo which he also got from Doc.

Gary

[BS Man about Palms]

Looking great Gary. Here is the one in San Clemente from earlier this year, It is probably on its second frond since this pic.

[LJG]

Gary, I saw this palm yesterday with Bill. I was amazed at how large this sucker gets. The fronds had to be 15 feet. You should make another trip up there.

[Urban Rainforest]

Gary that is one awesome palm! It looks great in front of that boulder too. Does Mardy have one of these in the ground and if so how big is it?

Steve

[Gtlevine]

Steve, Mardy has a gorgeous one in the ground close to the size of the one Bill posted. Mardy's looks way better, it is holding twice as many leaves and they are all perfect, not a touch of brown, just incredible. They also have a nice recurve to them and real curling at the ends of the leaves which is not exhinited by the one in Bills photo.

Gary

[surferjr]

I absolutely love this Mardy Darian specialty he calls Dypsis "Big Curly". As a matter of fact, I like it better than Dypsis "White Stem" the famous palm. It is massive and hardy even in So Cal. B.S. Man of Palms says one in San Clemente is 20 inches at the base and still no trunk. I have mine pictured below, it has nine foot leaves and the base is a foot thick. Just this year it put out two leaves already and the new spear should open in two weeks. I think by summers end it will have opened four leaves, thats fast by any standards, especially for a large Madagascar palm. Anyone have any of this species in the ground outside of California? maybe some of you in Australia have it as well? If you have one, please post some photos, I would like to see some different plants. As of now, I only know of Doc Darian collecting this palm and have only seen it in So Cal and one at Jeff Marcus in Hilo which he also got from Doc.

Gary

Lets hear some more on this beauty.

[Tyrone]

I want one or two or seventeen.

Tyrone

[Jeff Searle]

Gary,

Your palm looks great. It seems to be happy with your hot,inland climate. Do you have irrigation over to it?

I don't know of any planted here in south Florida as of yet, but sure would like to see it added to my garden some day. Now, was this the palm that John Dransfield after recently visiting Jeff's garden, saw his and thought it was maybe Dypsis prestoniana, or a form of it? I can't remember.

Jeff

[bgl]

Jeff,

I went back to the "Dransfield thread" just to make sure I didn't misquote him. And what JD said after seeing the palm here is that Dypsis prestoniana is a "possibility".

Bo-Göran

[Caryota_gigas]

Any idea just how cold this one will go???

[pogobob]

Looking great Gary. Here is the one in San Clemente from earlier this year, It is probably on its second frond since this pic.

Nice palm Gary, and Yeah Bill, the one here at my friends house in San Calamity has grown 3 new leaves this spring and summer and looks great! It really got dried out last Oct during the insane santa ana winds...Yers truly...Pogobob

[aussiearoids]

I just planted mine out ,, hope it grows fast . Had massive heel and a new leaf coming .

[BS Man about Palms]

I just planted mine out ,, hope it grows fast . Had massive heel and a new leaf coming .

You found a palm in your area known as "Big Curly" ???

[aussiearoids]

NO , Dypsis prestoniana

[Jeff Searle]

Jeff,

I went back to the "Dransfield thread" just to make sure I didn't misquote him. And what JD said after seeing the palm here is that Dypsis prestoniana is a "possibility".

Bo-Göran

Bo,

Thanks for that clarification. It's an age thing, well at least thats what I'm told. Did you have some pictures of yours to share? I love this palm and if it turns out to be D. prestoniana, well their doing great here just small. Thanks again.

Jeff

[surferjr]

Jeff,

I went back to the "Dransfield thread" just to make sure I didn't misquote him. And what JD said after seeing the palm here is that Dypsis prestoniana is a "possibility".

Bo-Göran

Bo,

Thanks for that clarification. It's an age thing, well at least thats what I'm told. Did you have some pictures of yours to share? I love this palm and if it turns out to be D. prestoniana, well their doing great here just small. Thanks again.

Jeff

Does this look D. prestoniana.....not?

[Jeff Searle]

Jeff,

I went back to the "Dransfield thread" just to make sure I didn't misquote him. And what JD said after seeing the palm here is that Dypsis prestoniana is a "possibility".

Bo-Göran

Bo,

Thanks for that clarification. It's an age thing, well at least thats what I'm told. Did you have some pictures of yours to share? I love this palm and if it turns out to be D. prestoniana, well their doing great here just small. Thanks again.

Jeff

Does this look D. prestoniana.....not?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, excuse me. I didn't realize you had the experience and travels to Madagascar as John Dransfield. Maybe you can then explain for ALL of us how you know this from looking at this small plant in Gary's garden. This ought to be real good......

Jeff

[MattyB]

I had the pleasure of visiting Gary again this weekend and the plant that we're growing that's sold as D. prestoniana and the Big Curly look like two different plants. The presumed D. prestoniana have much more cupped leaves. Is this a function of age? I don't know. Gary's D. prestoniana is 3-4 feet tall so, while smaller than the Big Curly, I'd assume that it's past a juvenile leaflet stage. Just speculation though. They do look very noticeably different.

[surferjr]

I had the pleasure of visiting Gary again this weekend and the plant that we're growing that's sold as D. prestoniana and the Big Curly look like two different plants. The presumed D. prestoniana have much more cupped leaves. Is this a function of age? I don't know. Gary's D. prestoniana is 3-4 feet tall so, while smaller than the Big Curly, I'd assume that it's past a juvenile leaflet stage. Just speculation though. They do look very noticeably different.

Thanks...that's what it looks like!

[Gtlevine]

Gary,

Your palm looks great. It seems to be happy with your hot,inland climate. Do you have irrigation over to it?

I don't know of any planted here in south Florida as of yet, but sure would like to see it added to my garden some day. Now, was this the palm that John Dransfield after recently visiting Jeff's garden, saw his and thought it was maybe Dypsis prestoniana, or a form of it? I can't remember.

Jeff

I don't water over it, just use a small spray dripper at the base.

For all of you are question if this is Dypsis Prestoniana, it is 100% "NOT" the Dypsis Prestonia in the current marketplace as MattyB pointed out. Is it actually the true Dypsis Prestoniana as found in the wild? possibly, as JD indicated. My opinion is it is a seperate palm that I found in the south of Madagascar above Ft. Dauphin that I have posted pics of before. But it comes from an area maybe 50 miles from Prestoniana habitat around St. Luce, so it could be in the Prestoniana grouping.

As far as cold hardiness, I find it very cold hardy, at least to 27F. Also mentioned was the one in San Clemente that got thrashed from Santa Ana winds. Mine experienced much worse Santa Ana Winds and did not get touched at all. It may be another cultural thing that happened like lack of water during the Santa Anas. Overall, probably the most hardy of the big Dypsis.

Gary

[BS Man about Palms]

Gary- I think the one in San Clemente is close enough for a "salt spray" issue (less than 1/4 mile?)

[Tyrone]

Give me one of each of these wacky named Dypsis's and I'll grow them all up and in 20 years I'll tell you if they're the same or different.

A lot of the new introductions from Madagascar came via North Queensland then via Hawaii to the rest of the world. Some common names were given to these unknowns in Oz, but the wacky naming thing ie "slick willy", "big curly" etc is a US thing. It is very possible that what is being called "Big Curly" in the US, is what the Queenslanders are calling "D prestoniana" rightly or wrongly. In addition what the US market is calling Dypsis prestoniana may be something else again.

A case in point is a "Dypsis canaliculata" I bought from North QLD. It isn't D canaliculata, but looks a lot what the US are calling "Big Curly", and the Oz growers call "D prestoniana". I personally don't care what it's called. The locals probably call it Monombopombobetafakalavake.

I love it, hence I grow it, and would love to get more of them. That's the thing with Dypsis, to quote Forest Gump, there"like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you're going to get on the inside".

Best regards

Tyrone

[Caryota_gigas]

I think I have a Monombopombobetafakalavake!

[neoflora]

I grew several of the Big Curly from young plants. Thinking back , the seedlings of D. prestoniana look very similar. but so does D. robusta. Six years ago I visited a forest in the south of Madagascar. There was a giant open crownshaft palm. I thought it might be D. Tokoravina. Based on how open the crownshaft was. Later I heard JD id them as D. prestoniana. Mardy told me he collected Big curly a bit farther north. Also nearby was some Orania trispathas. My 2 cents.

[Gtlevine]

Ron I agree about the palms in the south with the open crownshaft. Dypsis Prestoniana has the open crownshaft and comes from the south. I saw palms in the south that looked like Big Curly but did not have a fully open crownshaft. These I believe to be the actual Big Curly and I believe them to be a form of Robusta, a much prettier form. Also, Mardy told me he collected two palms, one from the south and one from the north. They look very similar and he gave them the names Big Curly and OCWS. Mardy now feels they are the same palm just from different areas. After looking at many of them, I do believe they are the same palm, they look almost identical to me. If this is the case, then Big Curly cannot be Dypsis Prestoniana because Dypsis Prestoniana does not come from the northern rain forest where the OCWS version supposedly was collected.

My three cents,

Gary

[Urban Rainforest]

Gary, Not trying to throw a wrench in the works but Jerry and I were having this very discussion in Hawaii and he pointed out to me on several of his bigger Dypsis Prestoniana's that the leaves become more flat and relaxed and not as cupped as the juviniles. Here is first a pic of my biggest one in Hawaii. You can see how cupped the leaves are.

[Urban Rainforest]

And here is a pic of one of several of Jerry's Prestoniana's that are starting to get big. The fronds take on a whole new look .

[neoflora]

Gary, Don't under estimate Madagascar. I run with anything is possible. Up the trail to Vatovavy. I found a small blue palm. It turn out to key out as D. cookeii. The guy I was with argued with me saying there was no dwarf blue palms there. I asked him if he thought I brought it with me. Go figure!

[neoflora]

Wow, Were havening fun again!

Mod Edit: Me Too

[LJG]

Mardy's seedling sized "Big Curly's" are the exact same plant Peter Balasky sold me as Dypsis Prestonia.

My 2 cents. And again, I do want change.

Thinking back , the seedlings of D. prestoniana look very similar.

[Gtlevine]

Steve, you are not throwing a wrench in this really. The picture of Jerry's Dypsis Prestoniana may be the real Prestoniana as I have mentioned before. But the question I have been posing is what exactly is the palm I have as Big Curly. I think it is totally different than what is being sold as Prestoniana, that was my point. I have seen Big Curly's from small plants to the big ones in So Cal, including mine, and they never have those leaves like the Prestoniana's even as tiny plants. I still think the Big Curly is the same palm as I found in South Madagascar and what the Aussies call Robusta. It's great these are all being planted in Hawaii, we shall have answers in a few years. But as a reminder, here is the palms in habitat that I am positive is Big Curly and Prestoniana. The top photo shows the scaling and open crownshaft like Prestoniana. The bottom photo is what I think to be Big curly, the crownshaft is not open, it does not have the heavy orange scaling and the leaves are not has pendulous as the top palm.

Gary

[Urban Rainforest]

Gary, If you say the small big curlys do not look like the small Prestoniana's then that shoots down that theory. I just thought I saw some similarities between Jerry's palm and yours. Your palm does look a little stiffer over all but given your hotter drier inland climate I thought that might account for the differance. I think Dypsis Prestoniana, Caniliculata, Big Curly, OCWS and Robusta are all in the same complex with only slight differances between them just like Dypsis Madagascariensis has many variations. Either way that is one awesome palm you have! Thanks for posting those habitat pics as well.

Steve

[paulgila]

those are some great pix,gary & steve!

[bgl]

Based on comments from other Palm Society members I believe this is the palm that's called Big Curly in SoCal. (I bought it from Floribunda as Dypsis sp. Mony mony). I have five of these, but this is by far the largest one.

[jdapalms]

Below are some pictures of a few other Dypsis prestoniana that I have in Hawaii.

Jeff Marcus's big curly that he got from Mardy Darien looks just like his Dypsis prestoniana. I also think that Bo's Dypsis mony mony is the same thing.

I have grown several of Mardy's big curly from small sizes and I have watched them grow into large containers in my greenhouse in Southern Calif. As I have also grown batches of Dypsis prestoniana. Mardy's OCWS also appears to me to be a prestoniana. John Dransfield being here in Hawaii has also indicated this may be.

Gary, Your palm looks different due to the climate difference; it looks to be the same to me. The first palm you have pictured from you habitat shot looks to me to be more like what your palm is.

Jerry

[Gtlevine]

I agree with Jerry, that is what I have been saying for quite a long time, that the palms we have as Big Curly are the same as what I saw in habitat. Also, Bo's palm he just pictured as Mony Mony is identical as the palm I posted from habitat, a stunning palm Bo. The only question is if these palms are true Prestoniana? Bo, can you post a photo of the crownshaft where it attaches? If the crownshaft is open, then it is Prestoniana, that is a major feature of Prestoniana as described in POM. Bo, you took a recent photo of Big Curly at Jeff's yard. That palm Jeff got from Mardy Darian, does it look like your Mony Mony?

Gary

[Tyrone]

Here are some Dypsis prestoniana I planted up from a community pot yesterday. The seed came from RPS.

Best regards

Tyrone

[bgl]

Here's the Big curly at Floribunda Palms. Took this photo back in June 2008 and posted it in a "Floribunda" thread at that time. This certainly looks like my palm (post #34 above). Will get a closeup of the crownshaft in a while.

[BS Man about Palms]

After speaking with Gary today, we thought I should add my biggest ones picture. Here also seen in its highly decorative planter.

[Urban Rainforest]

Bill, I definately see Prestoniana traits in yours. It's probably going through a change and will look more like Jerry's and Gary's plant in the future.

Steve