Planting palms - how do you do it?

[FRITO]

What technique is preferred? I guess it might depend on your local soil also.

How big to dig the hole? 3-4 times the palms rootball? how bout deeper then backfill?

Do you amend the native soil with somthing richer and more organic? 50/50 mix or do you backfill completely with native soil?

I have heard if you backfill with rich soil this keeps the palms roots from venturing out and establishing itself as the roots stay close to the "good" soil. fact or fiction?

share your thoughts!

thanks!

Edited June 27, 2008 by FRITO

[CromulentKevin]

I'm pretty sure I've overamended the soil in the past when I planted things. Too fast draining of amended soil in fairly heavy clay soil probably yielded a result similar to a potted plant, but with no drainage holes. Which is a good way for a plant to rot. But I think if you have crap soil like mine, it is certainly the best time to amend it and I think the roots need to not have too much resistance to establish the plant. Happy medium seems to have done better for me and I've killed less things since I amended less than before. Also, I've been lazy a few times and not amended at all and at least half the time those plants never got going or even died.

[Breadfruit Bill]

You mean... I can actually take palms out of the containers?

[_Keith]

Common wisdom now is to backfill with native soil from the hole. I also shake as much of the soil as possible from the potted root ball, without disturbing the roots, prior to planting. Seems to be working. I do dig, as Howard Garrett puts it, a wide and ugly hole.

[Really full garden]

I garden in almost pure sand so I must amend for most palm species.I try not to amend more than 30% of the backfill otherwise the palm would drown during my rainy season.

[DoomsDave]

DISCLAIMER:

Dave is a truly insane fanatic!

Ahem.

A lot depends on the soil.

If you are lucky to have truly great dirt -- riverbottom silt! -- all you need to do is plant.

Otherwise, add organics. Any kind of dead plant or animal material.

Dig a hole, bury it, wet and wait a month or so. It's startling how fast tough palm fronds that last forever on a thatched roof will rot to remnants in the wet ground.

I don't just dig a hole. I excavate the entire area, say, 20 by 20 feet, down to a depth of 2 - 3 feet (.66 - 1 m) and bury layers and layers of grass clippings, dead critters, poop, wood ashes from my Tree-Ma-Torium fireplace, with a generous layer of gypsum on the very bottom. Kind of a soil torte.

It leaves a big mound, but just wait and water, and the stuff rots, and the mound sinks. If the soil really sucks, as some of the evil clay in my back-bakyard does, I'll do it again.

It's trouble, but once it's done, it's done and your plants will love their home forever.

Even if they're not palms.

That said, if you can't do what I suggest, a modified version works, and if you have to, you can content yourself with digging an extra large hole and backfilling.

I think I'll post another excavation series of pictures . . . .

dave

[BS Man about Palms]

You mean... I can actually take palms out of the containers?

Highly overrated.

[Breadfruit Bill]

You mean... I can actually take palms out of the containers?

Highly overrated.

Figured.

[palmislandRandy]

You mean... I can actually take palms out of the containers?

Just keep buying larger pots Palms on the run!

[Ken Johnson]

Imagine my senario. Solid limestone (oolitic) some call it coral rock, covered with a layer of old farm soil about 2"s deep. Then dig a hole. This means that you either get out the biggest pick you can swing or go to mechanized equipment. A good hole costs about $20! Now plant the palm. If you backfill with "native soil" the pH will be about 10. In fact as the palm grows the pH in the entire area is about 10. So what to do? Well I read that most feeding palm roots are in the first foot of soil, in my case 2-3"s of soil. I add a bit of organic stuff (yes Dave animal parts are ok) around the palm, not much, then I FERTILIZE like crazy. I also water like crazy in the winter dry season. It becomes a kind of hydroponic farm.

After typing all that I bet you wonder what the moral of the story is? If your substrate sucks then plant above it. Let the roots on the surface do all the work and hope you dont get a big wind! Fourtunatly in my case the rock is pourus and not only drains but gives some anchoring ability to the palm. Be aware that organic stuff disappears over time and needs to be replaced. If not the feeding roots will get dry and not function. Also organic stuff supports microbes that will rob the area of nutrients so fertilize a lot. The fertilizer itself will kill microbes and get you going.

[_Keith]

Imagine my senario. Solid limestone (oolitic) some call it coral rock, covered with a layer of old farm soil about 2"s deep. Then dig a hole. This means that you either get out the biggest pick you can swing or go to mechanized equipment. A good hole costs about $20! Now plant the palm. If you backfill with "native soil" the pH will be about 10. In fact as the palm grows the pH in the entire area is about 10. So what to do? Well I read that most feeding palm roots are in the first foot of soil, in my case 2-3"s of soil. I add a bit of organic stuff (yes Dave animal parts are ok) around the palm, not much, then I FERTILIZE like crazy. I also water like crazy in the winter dry season. It becomes a kind of hydroponic farm.

After typing all that I bet you wonder what the moral of the story is? If your substrate sucks then plant above it. Let the roots on the surface do all the work and hope you dont get a big wind! Fourtunatly in my case the rock is pourus and not only drains but gives some anchoring ability to the palm. Be aware that organic stuff disappears over time and needs to be replaced. If not the feeding roots will get dry and not function. Also organic stuff supports microbes that will rob the area of nutrients so fertilize a lot. The fertilizer itself will kill microbes and get you going.

Funny how many similarities there are to here. In our case we did the hole just deep enough for some mechanical anchorage, maybe 4 inches. The we plant the palm and backfill with soil from the hole. Then we mound new amended soil the 4 to 12 inches around the palm that is above grade. In our case we aren't avoiding rock, we are avoiding the water table. And that organic matter goes away just about as fast due to rapid decomposition from the rain and heat. The one advantage here, is that once fully established in 2 or 3 years, it is rare to have to irrigate at all.

[Breadfruit Bill]

I have really limited experience with putting palms into the earth... but when I do, I

1. dig the smallest hole possible to put the palm in

2. put the palm (container and all) into the hole to check the height of the pot's soil vs. the terrain height (I like to put the pot's soil height just an inch or two above ground level)

3. remove the palm from the pot (reuse pot for the shadehouse)

4. put palm in hole

5. use the excavated sand to fill in around the hole and build up the mound around the root ball

6. take a running hose and jam it into the loosely packed soil around the root ball to remove air pockets and encourage settling (I am in 100% pure sand, drainage is never an issue)

7. jump in the pool and cool off

8. fertilize in a month or so with 360 day time release

[sonoranfans]

What technique is preferred? I guess it might depend on your local soil also.

How big to dig the hole? 3-4 times the palms rootball? how bout deeper then backfill?

Do you amend the native soil with somthing richer and more organic? 50/50 mix or do you backfill completely with native soil?

I have heard if you backfill with rich soil this keeps the palms roots from venturing out and establishing itself as the roots stay close to the "good" soil. fact or fiction?

share your thoughts!

thanks!

My experience is with planting palms in almost pure caliche clay(brown/orange), in the hot, arid arizona climate. The clay is trucked in to build houses over farmland(cotton fields), its 4' thick. When the clay is dry, an overhead pickaxe strike from 6'1" 205lb me gets about a 2" penetration, ughhh! the soil pH is about 10. I put probably 15-20 lbs of muscle planting 60+ palms. Dont worry Im not an idiot, I wet the ground the day before and its not as hard to dig. Our winters are dry, 8 1/2" of rain average a year.

My first consideration is to get good drainage for the root systems,and to try to grow the root systems large to survive the hot weather and holds lots of fronds. This is done by slightly raising the palms that require good drainage using a 4-6" gradual mound of clay, and by ammendment(pygmys and queens dont require good drainage). When I ammend the soil I dig a hole 3-4x the rootball size(mostly width,just a foot deeper or so) and ammend with about 1/4 sand, 1/4to1/3 compost, mix with the "native" clay and refill the hole. This prevents the caliche clay from acting like a container on a new palm, basically rootbounding the palm. Sometimes I add a quart or two of vermiculite to increase drainage further and prevent the soil from being too compressible or "air starved". This treatment I use on all my bismarckias, brahea armatas, sabals, butias, and phoenix sylvestris. I will use in on my parajubaea when they go into the ground, but not on foxtails, royals(more like queens). Queens, royals, foxtails and roebeliniis dont need this treatment, they like being wet almost continuously, so I do a 1/2 treatment level for them. My bismarckias grow roots well past my ammended zone, I have seen roots 3-4' past the ammended zone. What this does for them(and sabals, butias, braheas etc) is provide a more relaible dry cycle near the trunk. It also allows me to feed the roots reliably without the inhibition of poor drainage(excessive runoff of water, nutrients). The top layer is granite rock, 2-3" thick, 3/4" mesh, works better than mulch in keeping the ground damp in the arid southwest. I tried mulch at first and it was always dry a day or two later, the gravel keeps the top layer of soil damp for 4-5 days in 110F heat. With that practice here are some of my babies. I will be in this house 4 years in mid august(its was new construction completed in aug 2004, a bare yard).

Edited June 28, 2008 by sonoranfans

[sonoranfans]

I also use a soil surfactant, "aerify", it breaks up clay soils temporarily(6months effect) to allow root penetration into the clay and improves drainage. i use it 2x a year around the root zones. the active ingredient is sodium laurel sulfate, it works amazingly well, will turn hard clay into soft dirt in two days wth a deep water.

Here is my heavily ammended bismarckia, 4 years in the ground this fall from a 20 gallon size. this bizzie has roots almost 1/4" thick 3' past the ammended zone(found them by accident planting another palm this year).

[Tala]

I have the opposite of Ken's soil here in cen. Fl. Mostly sandy loam, a perfect substrate for many tropicals. I would trade my soil for his nighttime lows in the winter (even if my back muscles disagree)...

Just dig a hole and plant; then fert & water like hell, do it again and keep on. I push them hard w/ 12-15% nitrogen for the 6 to 8 months they grow, then 8% nitrogen for 4 to 6 months they sit there. Even then they are growing some, and always load up the K, usually 3 times the N. Most palms will do ok without the fert & water but I want them to grow while they can. If I had a climate like Hawaii or a truly tropical place I would go easier on them once they got some size. I think as long as you fertilize well you don't have to amend the soil at all. Works here anyway. Fert beats the hell out of any natural amendments you can make. Only caveat is you have to get the rainfall for it to work at it's peak potential.

[Alicehunter2000]

1. dig the smallest hole possible to put the palm in

2. put the palm (container and all) into the hole to check the height of the pot's soil vs. the terrain height (I like to put the pot's soil height just an inch or two above ground level)

3. remove the palm from the pot (reuse pot for the shadehouse)

4. put palm in hole

5. use the excavated sand to fill in around the hole and build up the mound around the root ball

6. take a running hose and jam it into the loosely packed soil around the root ball to remove air pockets and encourage settling (I am in 100% pure sand, drainage is never an issue)

7. jump in the pool and cool off

8. fertilize in a month or so with 360 day time release

HEY! You stole my idea

[DoomsDave]

You mean... I can actually take palms out of the containers?

Highly overrated.

[_Keith]

I also use a soil surfactant, "aerify", it breaks up clay soils temporarily(6months effect) to allow root penetration into the clay and improves drainage. i use it 2x a year around the root zones. the active ingredient is sodium laurel sulfate, it works amazingly well, will turn hard clay into soft dirt in two days wth a deep water.

Seems I recall someone, maybe you, stating that a while back in another posts. What is the name of the product you use, and where do you get it.

[sonoranfans]

I also use a soil surfactant, "aerify", it breaks up clay soils temporarily(6months effect) to allow root penetration into the clay and improves drainage. i use it 2x a year around the root zones. the active ingredient is sodium laurel sulfate, it works amazingly well, will turn hard clay into soft dirt in two days wth a deep water.

Seems I recall someone, maybe you, stating that a while back in another posts. What is the name of the product you use, and where do you get it.

Yes it was probably me. Aerify is very quick in imporving drainage in high calcium clays. I use it, and the "natures magic" product(humic acid/kelp) from this source:

https://ssl.cgicafe.com/clients/natureslawnxcart/aerify.php

Loosening up the clay soil to permit freeflow of water, air and nutrients makes good sense, it should result in better root growth.