Pythons in South Florida

[Really full garden]

I saw a program on the History Channel last night about giant snakes.Part of the program was about the introduction of pythons into South Florida and that these are showing up in neighborhoods(eating cats etc.)

The largest that has been caught measured 22 feet.That is incredible ! They also believe that these snakes can and are moving further north every year eating any warm blooded animal available.

Have you seen these in your area?

[_Keith]

The History Channel is on this mega disaster kick. I think it must be an internal contest going on about who can produce the most distressing, depressing, panicky stuff. In the last few weeks I have seen every possible combination of factors that will end the world, and every threat to mankind from giant snakes, to killer bees, to what if the dinosaurs came back. Another good channel goes the sensationalist route.

It is amazing that in a country of 300 million people, that when something happens to 5 of them, by the tiime the national tv outlets get finished, 295 million people are afraid to ever go outside again.

[Breadfruit Bill]

the outdoors are safe again! have no fear, me and this madman will eat pythons.

[bubba]

The Everglades is frigging crawling with Pythons.There has been alot of fighting between Alligators and Pythons out their in Micosukee land.You may recall that picture of the Gator that ate it's way through the soon to be dead Python that shortly thereafter became a dead Gator after suffocating on the dead Python.It's what is usually referred as a contested draw.

The Major concern now expressed by the Micosukee is a local Shaman's vision of the Devestation wrought after the two species begin Mating.

[Dave-Vero]

Pythons are present in the St. Johns River marsh system, at least in Indian River County. They are also becoming a problem in the Keys, where the native rodents are already endangered.

[_Keith]

I ain't skeer'd of nothing I can kill with a single shot.

[Tad]

no where near as exiting as pythons, but my pond now has its own feral population of plecostimus ....the aquarium sucker fish, after a couple years of continually throwing the ones that get too big for the aquarium into the pond, they have evidently mated and procreated becasue the kids are constantly catching little tiny ones now!

[Kris]

Pythons are present in the St. Johns River marsh system, at least in Indian River County. They are also becoming a problem in the Keys, where the native rodents are already endangered.

Dear Dave

you are lucky,as to the rodents population is on the downward trend ! but here in south india we have this menace,and many of my palms in the ground were damaged...and we are all doing our level best to eridicate these guys from our house gardens...And we call them as field rat,they are preety fat and stout with a long thich grooved tail...

love,

Kris

[Neofolis]

We didn't see any in Florida, but they talked about them when we did the Everglades tour. Apparently they are the result of pet abandonment, where they grow too large for their keepers to look after them, so they get released into the wild. They really shouldn't pose a major threat, as they will avoid civilization where possible and, because they can go 6 months between meals, they are unlikely to need to go near civilzation for food.

[amazon exotics]

Alot of exotic animals were introduced into the Everglades after hurricane Andrew blew threw in 92'. The zoo there suffered alot of damage and many animals escaped......

[Jeff Searle]

We didn't see any in Florida, but they talked about them when we did the Everglades tour. Apparently they are the result of pet abandonment, where they grow too large for their keepers to look after them, so they get released into the wild. They really shouldn't pose a major threat, as they will avoid civilization where possible and, because they can go 6 months between meals, they are unlikely to need to go near civilzation for food.

Corey,

Your missing the boat! It's all about a balance within nature. And these snakes are multiplying and being found more and more and in different areas. Their feeding on native wildlife which WILL cause distruptions and and an inbalance. Also, they really don't have a predator to keep them in check.

Jeff

[bubba]

Jeff,Alligators?What about Nile Monitor Lizards?What about Keith's sawed-off Mossberger?Keith, I am not sure Fish and Game would take kindly to that yet!

[palmmermaid]

They are also being found in condo areas. Last year one was found in the pool pump area of a local condo.

Jeff is absolutely right. They are a growing problem in south Florida. They are putting the native fauna at an even higher risk. I think the authorities are tagging the females and then capturing or killing the males who approach her before they can mate. I think we should turn some of the bubbas loose on them, along with the iguanas. Forget alligator permits. Let's issue exotic reptile permits and declare open season on them.

[bubba]

Can you say Python Boots?

[Walter John]

Sounds bad, I mean pythons are rather large and would no doubt disturb the eco system of the area big time.

So can anybody tell us some of the native species under threat from this deadly import ?

[Alan_Tampa]

There is probably no direct threat to any one species not already at odds with the changes humans have made to that environment presented by the pythons. The biggest concern is perception that GIANT WILD SNAKES are roaming about. It is a crime to release any exotic species into the wild in Florida, but morons persist.

As with any exotic animal let loose, something will even it out. Even the walking catfish is mostly a nuisance rather the end of all fish (even the state invasive species specialist has stated this) as things have kind of evened out since the big todo back in the 1970's regarding this species

As I have said before, like a million billion times, humans are the ones directly having a negative impact with their land clearing and whatnot more than any critter eating another critter.

People should feel free to hunt for python skin boots in South Florida, already the reptile trade removes thousands of basilisks and other little lizards and such to be made pets.(usually in far off places like Ohio) As long as people are not stupid and continue to release non-native species into the wild, there might be an eventual leveling off of oddball things popping up, due the natural ebb and flow of the wild, as well as a result of collecting. Some species are fecund enough and entreched enough that this will not make much of a difference and those will persist. So enjoy them if you can, if you cannot stand the iguanas in your garden, practice your shooting. (even if it might be frowned upon by some aspects of law enforcement)

So the only prudent course of action is to gather up as many of the critters as you can: focusing on the one's which present the greatest threat (real or imagined) and stop releasing any more of them. But since you can't outlaw stupid, this is inevitable.

As a person who at one time dreamed of being a reptile and amphibian breeder (did pretty good with frogs) I am concerned that when people break the rules; they might make it hard for non-morons (or just a little morony) to legally keep and enjoy various species of so-called exotic species. I am hoping to one day get back into reptiles and amphibians like I once was (already I have given up my venomous permit due to the new rules brought about by "morons in the news"), I hope to be able to do so without undue limitations on what I can and cannot keep. Afterall, this is America, right? As long as one keeps to the rules and does not release anything there is no good reason that they should suffer because of some idiot. (think gun laws)

Also, dollars to donuts that 22 footer was more like 12, people love to add about 10 feet to any snake they see or catch, like fishing.

Alan

Alan

[tank]

Caught a ~7' Boa constrictor when I was 13. My friends and I were snagging soft shelled turtles at a lake near my house and saw the snake crossing the lake. It became a target, although we had no idea what we were about to pull up.

[Neofolis]

We didn't see any in Florida, but they talked about them when we did the Everglades tour. Apparently they are the result of pet abandonment, where they grow too large for their keepers to look after them, so they get released into the wild. They really shouldn't pose a major threat, as they will avoid civilization where possible and, because they can go 6 months between meals, they are unlikely to need to go near civilzation for food.

Corey,

Your missing the boat! It's all about a balance within nature. And these snakes are multiplying and being found more and more and in different areas. Their feeding on native wildlife which WILL cause distruptions and and an inbalance. Also, they really don't have a predator to keep them in check.

Jeff

Jeff, as Alan said, usually in nature these things even themselves out. With any large predator it's population will only grow as large as the food supply will sustain. Admittedly pythons don't need a lot of food and there is the threat that, when there is a shortage of food, they will start looking elsewhere, such as inhabited areas, but even with a large population such events would be relatively rare. Animals learn through generations to avoid humans, the times this normally becomes a problem is when humans start doing things that encourage animals into their environment. This has happened to some extent with the Alligators in Florida, because people have been feeding them. There are exceptions to nature creating balance. There are Islands where human sailors have introduced domestic cats and they have wiped out just about all indigenous life, but these things don't usually happen without the support of humans. If the cats hadn't been able to get food from the humans as well, they would not have been able to sustain a population large enough to extinguish the native species. Obviously the python situation is not ideal, they shouldn't be there and they will have an effect on native wildlife, but as long as there are humans on the planet, this sort of thing will continue to happen over and over. Humans are just as gifted at doing things the other way round, like when they removed all of the bear and wolf population from the UK and now wonder why they have a problem with so many foxes. They used to overcome this by hunting the foxes for sport, which has also been banned, but they don't want to re-introduce the bears or wolves, because apparently they are dangerous. Seems funny to me that humans consider anything else dangerous.

[_Keith]

Seems funny to me that humans consider anything else dangerous.

My point exactly. As we all know, once mankind decides to do it, we can be extremely efficient at removing things from this earth in short order. Just start shooting the things. Put out a bounty.

Better yet, spread a rumor that some part of them is an afrodisiac. You'll have a healthy black market in no time and there won't be a snake to be found.

[palmislandRandy]

Easy, State-wide, Florida "Open Season On Any Non-Native Species" I saw 3 guys cast netting iguanas on 441 in Boca Raton yesterday!

[bubba]

Exotics-Animal,Reptile or Plants of all kind will always be an issue out in the Glades.The Tropical nature of the Glades lends itself to this.Alan's reference to the Walking Catfish and the dire predictions that accompanied it(the likely end of life as we know it)remind me that Nature does indeed hold a Trump card in matters like this.If pythons are meant to succeed,then perhaps they will make it out there but without the Earth shattering results commonly predicted.More than likely,the lack of something like calcium,obtained from certain berries in their natural Environment, will dramatically slow them down or even make them dissapear all together.

The Glades has by its nature been a melting pot from the time of it's inception to now.A constant theme that we humans seem to believe is that we hold the upper-hand in all matters,and knowing inherently our devious nature,dire results loom closely in the nearby balance.You may call this Humanetricity.The truth is we hold far less effect in the balance than we give ourselves credit.Nature has far greater equalizing ability than any one of us affords proper credit.

Of course,Who should understand part of this better than ourselves,a group that lives to plant that Exotic Palm or Tree that survives and is the only one to be seen.Thankfully,the "Native Only" group is no longer as active or perhaps nature has thrown them a ringer.That stated,the rampant Maleleluca and Brazilian Pepper,are not appreciated but have not been the end of life as we know it.

Hawaii is a perfect example of this.Isolated in the middle of the Pacific,it's inhabitants cut down and sold for a pittance its natural trees(atleast natural at that time)to Europeans.As you drive the Islands,it is one naturalized exotic after the other.Has this caused the end of life as we know it for Hawaii.I do not think so.

Nature has the Cure for these things.A few Pythons out in the Glades equals a great press "Sound Bite" for the Media that likes to focus on anything with a menacing sound.Nature probably holds the ultimate Cure for them also.

[amazondk]

This is an interesting thread. Have piranhas been confirmed to be in South Florida waters? How about anacondas have any of them been found? Nature always comes to a balance, but this balance may not be something that humans want or like. Since cayman hunting was banned in Amazonia many years ago there has been an explosion in populaton. Somewhat like the southern US. But, since the area is much bigger it is on a larger scale. Now there is increasing pressure to allow harvesting of them. More fishermen and riverside dwellers are beening attacked by the big black caymans. And, the increased numbers are decreasing fish populations in some areas. I have heard of a couple of anaconda related deaths and I suppose that a big python would be capable to do the same. Since there is a lot of game in urban areas of South Florida, raccoons, possums, etc. and rats, cats and dogs I would image that pythons could live pretty well close to man. And, they are pretty hard to see most of the time, just like anacondas. As I have travelled around the area here I have found that anacondas are a lot more common than I once thought them to be. I remember reading a story years ago about a fellow walking his dog by a lake in Central Florida when the dog was attacked by an alligator which resulted in a tug a war with the guy and gator and the dog. But, at the end the gator won and pulled the dog down into the lake. Now, I guess we could have the same scenario with a python.

dk

[kahili]

Bubba-I think that people who live in Hawaii would likely disagree with you about the effects of animals being introduced to there. Pigs, goats,mongoose and rats have had a very negative effect on the flora/fauna on the islands. They do incredible damage.

[simona]

Pythons are present in the St. Johns River marsh system, at least in Indian River County. They are also becoming a problem in the Keys, where the native rodents are already endangered.

Dear Dave

you are lucky,as to the rodents population is on the downward trend ! but here in south india we have this menace,and many of my palms in the ground were damaged...and we are all doing our level best to eridicate these guys from our house gardens...And we call them as field rat,they are preety fat and stout with a long thich grooved tail...

love,

Kris

Oh Kris, you make me wonder: would you rather have Pythons than rodents around your house....?

Lucky me....I have none of those pests to worry about.

[bubba]

It is with profound sadness that I do my best to deal with the declining Rat population in South Florida.It is a Sad Day in Hooterville,that is certain.

[Redland]

The more biodiversity the better, bring it on, let mother nature make her choices. She is using us to deliver her tools. Every time we get involved we screw it up big time.

Citrus is at record production levels in Florida, after millions spent on citrus canker and greening. The USDA not Florida, indicated that growers have said they cannot survive the loss of more than 25% of the state’s citrus acreage and that federal costs to implement the 1900 foot tree removal would cost significantly more than the annual $36 million dollar federal appropriation as well as hundreds of millions more in compensation payments to growers.

What kind of native plants will return to the 185K acres of land after big Sugar leaves?

What plants in Hawaii are native on a new lava flow? The coquie frog endangered in the Caribbean, is bothering tourists, it found a home in dracaenas and bromeliads, not native, and eats mosquitoes, yet 100’s of thousands of dollars are going towards eradication. Follow the money trail. http://co.hawaii.hi.us/council/clerks/CORe...124Point54.html

Invasive species is a pseudoscience, if they don’t have a problem they do not have a job.

[edbrown_III]

Everglades rat snake will probably have a problem when the sugar farms move out!

Dont forget they hand out price supports -- not critical to nursery farms but more critical to the ohter food producing areas of agricultural.

Best regards

Ed

[tank]

The more biodiversity the better, bring it on, let mother nature make her choices. She is using us to deliver her tools. Every time we get involved we screw it up big time.

Citrus is at record production levels in Florida, after millions spent on citrus canker and greening. The USDA not Florida, indicated that growers have said they cannot survive the loss of more than 25% of the state’s citrus acreage and that federal costs to implement the 1900 foot tree removal would cost significantly more than the annual $36 million dollar federal appropriation as well as hundreds of millions more in compensation payments to growers.

What kind of native plants will return to the 185K acres of land after big Sugar leaves?

What plants in Hawaii are native on a new lava flow? The coquie frog endangered in the Caribbean, is bothering tourists, it found a home in dracaenas and bromeliads, not native, and eats mosquitoes, yet 100’s of thousands of dollars are going towards eradication. Follow the money trail. http://co.hawaii.hi.us/council/clerks/CORe...124Point54.html

Invasive species is a pseudoscience, if they don’t have a problem they do not have a job.

Man, and I was wondering what I should do with this truckload of airpotato I removed from one of my rentals. I'll just plant them in all of my friends and neighbors yards and let ma' nature take do her thing. I'm sure they'll thank me later .

[Eric in Orlando]

They are finding boas here alot. There was a news story just last week, a lady went in her yard looking for her cat and found a 9ft boa had just eaten it. This was just a few blocks from Leu Gardens. A few years ago, a staff member saw one about 6ft long crawling across the lawn with mockingbirds diving at it. It climbed a small tree but he didn't see where it went after that. Wonder if it was the same snake. There have also been a couple of breeding water monitor lizard colonies removed, too.

http://www.wftv.com/news/16720854/detail.h...lc&psp=news

[amazondk]

I remember a story in the late 80's when a boa got loose in a North Miami Beach (if I remember right) condo building. One day it appeared wrapped around the inside of a toilet bowl in a womans apartment. She noticed it when she went to sit down. I guess the snake was moving around the building for some time using the plumbing and other spaces connecting apartments. There was a nice sized boa that turned up across the street from my house last year. I wish I had taken a picture. I think that one of the neighbor kids took it and let it loose on the Universtiy campus near here. Then again they are native to the area and should really be around here.

dk

[PalmGuyWC]

I know they are not welcome in Florida or any other habitat where exotics can reproduce, but living in N. Calif. I do miss all the varments of S. Fla. I can remember when the Cuban Anole was quite uncommon in the Miami area, and now they are all over S. Fla., and of course, so are Iguanas and many kinds of smaller lizards and Geckos, also a lot of parrots and exotic birds and snakes.

I live in an area of about 20 acres of large native Oaks and other large trees. It appears I live in the country, but I'm surrounded by asphalt and heavy traffic. All of the snakes have been absent here since about 15 years ago, all run over by automobiles. 30 years ago I counted 40 Quail in my front yard one morning. They have all been killed off by feral cats. The wood lizards that once lived here were killed by the 98/90 freeze. I tried to reintroduce them, by releasing about 30 a couple of years, but none seem to have survived.

My gopher, mole, and squirrel population is increasing, and I'm sure it's because all the snakes have been killed off. There used to be several species of snakes living in my area, including rat snakes which eat gophers, but they are all gone. A few years ago, I had Barn Owls living in my Washilngtonias, and they regurgitate the bones and hair they can't digest. There used to be a lot of squirrel and rat bones in their deposits. Now the owls have gone.

I've actually thought about reintroducing some native non poisonous snakes, but they would probabably be run over by automobiles, or my dogs or cats might do them in. The problem with this planet is US!! We are messing it up.

Dick

[Breadfruit Bill]

So after reading all the responses on this soon to be lengthy thread I'm left with only one question... Does anyone on this board have an aversion to me dropping off half a dozen Tahina spectabilis in the everglades in a few years?

[street124]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/cu...0,6473457.story

[Tad]

oooppps Dick just crossed the line, speak for your self Dick, I am not messing anything up, I go out of my way to be critter thoughtful here on my 20 acres, I have more large tree lizards and horned toads than any place I know of. and rhino beetles are the only thing we willfully destroy. we have owls, ducks, and bats, lizards snakes and weasels,racoons,and the list goes on and on and on, I am currently working quite hard to re introduce the alligator to our local waterways, especially along the river:)

so lets not put our giant umbrella of guilt over everybody!

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

Anyone ever cook a python?

Bet they'd be great curried . . . .