EZ-Flo Fertilizer Injector

[doubravsky]

After I switched over to drip irrigation from sprinklers, I was struggling with the best way to fertilize my palms. Without the sprinkler water to soak in the fert... I was afraid just spreading fertilizer wouldn't work.

I can't use a Dosatron or injector system that works on the main line, because my main sprinkler water line also supplies water to the pool (found that out by accident- good thing !)

I settled on the EZ-Flo fertilizer injector, the version that attaches to the individual zone right after the valve. It consists of a tank holding the fertilizer which can be 3/4 gallon, 1 1/3 gallon, or 3 gallon. I got the 1 1/3 gallon (1st pic), which I have to refill about once a week during summer. From there a couple tubes go into the PVC just after the valve and filter (2nd pic). The cap of the tank has a dial setting (3rd pic) that enables you to control how strong the dilution is. From there, it's just a matter of dumping in 7-8 lbs of 15-5-15 Cal Mag water soluble, and your done.

Hard to tell the effect on palms yet... but for the bamboos, Musas and Hibiscus, the effect after three weeks is very obvious. The Dendrocalamus pictured has really deep green leaves...never had that before. The Musa... a really deep green instead of the pale green yellow I used to get. The Hibiscus- same thing.

The price is right too... about $65 for the 1 1/3 gallon setup. It seems like a good option for a home grower - easy to manage, inexpensive, and effective.

[Justin]

How low can you get the concentration? Dosatron is one of the few that seems to have a low enough concentration that you can leave "always on."

[LJG]

Dave, I bought a Dosatron last year but have not set it up. When you mentioned the pool I thought "how does my pool auto-fill get its supply?" Well, from the main line sprinkler system. Man I am glad you mentioned that because I never considered this. Now I need to put a shut off valve in front of the auto fill and hope to flush the system enough to not cause issues with fert in the pool, or I need to ditch the Dosatron and get something like you did. My only concern is practicality. I have three sprinkler control boxes with about 12 zones each. So unless you can daisy chain or somehow use one fert system and link it to 12 values, it seems it is not practical. Do you use yours only for one valve? What if you pull the tube out, will the water from the sprinkler leak out?

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<edit> Actually I just thought of something. Why could I not put it inline just before the sprinkler valves? I could put one in front of each sections. Just put a check valve inplace. Hmmmmm I like this system. No fertilizer in my pool or Koi pond.

[Dypsisdean]

Len,

Just make sure you get the right type of check valve, and the highest quality you can find. You should probably get the see through type with unions on each side, for easy examination and easy replacement when (not if) it wears out. You will want one the restricts the flow as little as possible as well. You could even use reducers to place a larger valve in line so there is no reduction in flow at all.

I mention this because, depending on the fertilizer, getting it in your pool can cause all sorts of unpleasant surprises.

[doubravsky]

Justin... the four settings it has are 1,000:1, 500:1, 250:1, and 100:1. You can also buy a coupler (the connection to the PVC line) that will increase the dilution to 15,000:1, 8,000:1, 2,000:1, and 400:1.

Right now I'm running at the 1,000:1 setting.

Len... I figured out about the pool by accident. I put on a ball valve where I was gonna run the Dosatron I was gonna buy... and that night the pool fill didn't come on. What a mess that would have been! The ez-flo I have is designed for after the valve- not always under pressure... but the have some mainline types too... http://www.ezfloinjection.com/ good luck.... you might re-route your pool fill line upstream of the valves... then you could use your Dosatron.

[LJG]

Dean, I think it not even worth trying as I have heard how ugly it gets with fertilizer in the pool even in small doses. Since I can not connect my auto-fill off the main sprinkler system (it would involve cutting concrete) I think three of these systems would work best.

Thanks for the tip on the check value. Even ones for this system should be as you stated.

Oh yeah, and now another issue that comes to mind. My zones have lawn sprinklers too. I am not sure how garden fertilzer and soil treatments run through sprinklers will work on lawns? Maybe kill it or yellow it with too much fert?

  Dypsisdean said:

Len,

Just make sure you get the right type of check valve, and the highest quality you can find. You should probably get the see through type with unions on each side, for easy examination and easy replacement when (not if) it wears out. You will want one the restricts the flow as little as possible as well. You could even use reducers to place a larger valve in line so there is no reduction in flow at all.

I mention this because, depending on the fertilizer, getting it in your pool can cause all sorts of unpleasant surprises.

[doubravsky]

That was another factor I had in using the post-valve setup. I figured the grass could handle the fert, but I water the grass a lot heavier than the garden, and I was worried I'd be spending a ton of $$ fertilizing my grass with expensive palm fert! I have only four zones that are for the garden, so I'm buying the tanks one by one. Easier to justify for the wife spending $65 every couple of months than the more expeensive mainline system anyways- and two of the zones are smaller, so I'll buy the 3/4 gallon setup for them (a little cheaper).

Len, how many valves have you got that are garden and not grass?

[LJG]

  doubravsky said:

That was another factor I had in using the post-valve setup. I figured the grass could handle the fert, but I water the grass a lot heavier than the garden, and I was worried I'd be spending a ton of $$ fertilizing my grass with expensive palm fert! I have only four zones that are for the garden, so I'm buying the tanks one by one. Easier to justify for the wife spending $65 every couple of months than the more expeensive mainline system anyways- and two of the zones are smaller, so I'll buy the 3/4 gallon setup for them (a little cheaper).

Len, how many valves have you got that are garden and not grass?

In my head I come up with 40 total zones. 10 are for grass. Why is it so difficult to fertilize through sprinklers? Too many variables.

Now my solution is to sperate the grass valves from garden.

[rozpalm]

Could this system feed your sprinkler system and if so, would it be that effective? There is no way I would be able to run new lines for something like this.

[doubravsky]

Roz... it could be used for sprinklers. I just didn't want to waste perfectly good $$ putting palm fertilizer on my lawn... which seems to do fine with 2-3 applications of cheap lawn fertilizer a year. But then, I hate the lawn and am secretly planning/scheming for ways to talk my wife into letting me rip large parts of it out to plant more palms

[doubravsky]

Len... there you go.... put mainline fert system in downstream of the pool fill with an antisiphon valve above it, run a line off upstream of the valve, parallel the pipe down to your grass sprinkler valves, hook them up to the second line... you're good to go! Piece of cake

[Mark Heath]

It was a good idea of yours to run the fertilizer AFTER the valves!! Had you run it through the valves it would have eaten up the valves in very little time. To prevent this, you would have to install "scrubber" valves, which are designed to have chemicals run through them. I am lucky to have friends at Rainbird to help me w/ my irrigation system, otherwise, i would've made many mistakes!! I have'nt run any fertilizer yet, but i planned ahead because i knew i would be doing so in the future.

[LJG]

Ha-ha. Thanks Mark. Another good point. I am glad this thread was started.

And Dave, you are right. Very easy. I have an architectural firm starting the blue prints now.

[kahili]

Man, this sounds so complicated....I am wondering why everyone doesn't just use a good slow release fert and let the water do its thing with it? I have a good injector system that i use for commercial use, but its a heck of a lot easier to do the slow release than fool around with a liquid fert and all the stuff that can happen with it, esp when you start using ratios of 1000:1. I don't even think that mine goes up that high. I use 200:1 and use 4 gallons concentrate and at that ratio I am putting in 28 oz of straight fert per gallon ( thats about 200 ppm with a 20-10-20). Thats a lot of fert to keep soluble. If I were using a 1000:1 ratio, I would be using 5 times the 28 oz per GALLON, and then multiply that times 4 for the 4 gallon concentrate. Most injectors won't/can't handle that amt of fert running thru the system.....and this only costs $ 65?

I have used something similiar as what you all are discussing in the past-its basically the same except it doesn't come with the bucket and only has a ratio of 16:1. I still use one for small applications of hydrogen dioxide or when fert a small amt of something. With mine, you could only use 100' of hose after the brass nozzle or it would loose its ratio accuracy-I wonder if the same applies with this, and whether that would affect your system? Also, I went through about 6-8 of these a year-they don't last long. I would be interested to see if these last longer. I am about to order a few more of what I use- which is this http://homeharvest.com/waterfertilizerinjectors.htm . I would never want to rely on these for large amts of fertilizing-injectors are far superior.

To help avoid the back flow problem, you can remove the small black hose that is in the concentration from the concentration when you are done-assuming that you are doing weekly fertilizing and not every time the sprinker goes on, which would be more of a pain.

Just some thoughts on this.

[Phil]

Dave,

I don't know the particular product you bought, but I suspect it is based on the Venturi Principal, sort of like the old Siphonex. The latter has been around for decades and is often used for such things as fish emulsion or Peters solubles. I would throw out one caution regarding this type of system. If you soil is dry (i.e. during a real hot spell), the system still injects fertilizer (if it's set up for fertilizing every time the system is on). This could lead to your roots seeing very high concentrations. For this reason I'd utilize very low settings. There's a rule that one should never fertilize on dry ground. You have to apply that datum to your system. I prefer the old fashion hand broadcasted system of organics mixed with slow release. It's quite amazing how fast you can fertilize a big yard. In our nursery we utilize blood meal when repotting but for general fertilizer use an injector at very low doses. This is because hand fertilizing pots is very labor intensive. It would take us days to do each of 250,000 pots. That's a lot of bending over. Also, when I have my soil professionally mixed, I add one pound of Osmocote to every yard of soil. Let us know how your system works out.

Phil

[doubravsky]

Phil.... interesting.. I hadn't thought of that. mine i set up so that it takes close to a week of watering to go through the tank... about 6 lbs. of Peters soluble 15-5-15 cal mag. Last week when it was really hot I didn't refill the fetilizer... (cause I wasn't home ) but maybe I'll keep that in mind for future heat spells.... when you mention low ratios... do you consider the 1000:1 to be low enough?

Kahili... I kind of got lost following your numbers. Here's the specs on the tank I have.,... it takes 1330 gallons of water to empty the 1 1/3 gallon tank that holds 8 gallons. So for me.. I just fill the tank on Saturday and let the drip run through the week... right now I'm using about 1800 gallons/ week of water through the drips....

Tank Capacity - Liquid: Approx. 1.33 Gal. (5.0 liters)

Tank Capacity - Water Soluble Fertilizer: Recommended 8 lbs. (3.63 kg)

Adjustable Feed Ratio Range: 1,000:1/Slow setting to 100:1/Fast setting

Water Volume to Empty Tank: 1,330 gal (5.03 kl)/Slow setting

[kahili]

Sorry for the confusion, Dave. I think that I understand a bit better how your system works as opposed to the injector system that I use, after your last post, and that I may have been comparing apples to oranges somewhat.

If I understand correctly ( and I would like to, because I may get one of these for small applications instead of the siphonex that I have to replace), you just put 6 lbs of fert in there and then add the water-about 1.3 gallons) and then what you put your ratio setting on,is how strong/weak your fert is. Does that sound right? The low setting (1000:1) being the weakest strength. If so-how do you know how many ppm (parts per million) that you are applying at any of the settings? Do they give you a chart of different strength nitrogen fertilizers (like 20 or the 15 that you are using) and what the ppm is when you use the different ratio settings? Just trying to figure out if this would work for me.

With the numbers that I used-with an injector-you start with the chart on the back of the bag of fertilizer. It will show a column for the ratio that you are using ( 16:1, 200:1) and across the top of the chart is the ppm that you want to end up with. Next column over will tell you the amt of oz of fert that you need per gallon of concentrate to get that ppm. so if I want to give 200 ppm of fert to the plants, and I am using a 200:1 ratio ( in this case-the higher the ratio, the more concentrated the gallon is and it lasts longer when fertilizing-but-and this is the point I was trying to make above-you can only put so much fert in the gallon of concentrate and then it becomes too thick and won't run thru the injector properly) I need 28 oz of fert to add to the gallon to make my concentrate. We use 5 gallon buckets-so I make up 4 gallons of concentrate to last longer, so that would be 4 ( the amt of gallons that I am using) times the 28 oz ( to get the 200 ppm). Where I went wrong with your system is that I assumed that you would also have to increase the amt of fert to use a higher ratio-and you don't. You just get a weaker solution by upping the ratio. There is another column that will give you a EC number that allows you to check that the injector is working properly. I think for 200 ppm it is 1.30 . So, after I get it set up and the fert is coming out of the end of the hose, I can put some in a container and stick the end of my PH/EC tester probe into it and check the EC of it. If I get a reading near 1.3, then I know that its about 200 ppm. If its lower then the ppm is lower etc. ( Maybe too much info-but I thought maybe some people always wondered about that number ) If I were using your system-that is what I would do to see how strong the solution was that you were using. Its actually quite useful to have

In regards to what Phil pointing out about fertilizing dry soil, I was wondering about the opposite. If it were to rain a lot ( I know for you not really a problem), most people turn off the sprinkler and if so, then no fert for that week (s)? Soluble fert is pretty quick to leach out of the soil.

The other question that I was wondering about is-with the siphonex ( of which I think is similiar), once the water is gone from the gallon, the tube starts to take up air instead of water and the water hose gets that air in it and the flow is interupted continuously until you put more water in the container. Does that happen with this?

[doubravsky]

Kahili... you are correct about the way the system works.... and now I understand your ealier post better. You're right, I fill the tank with fertilizer and water, and change the setting on the unit to vary the amount that goes out. So if I make the ratio heavier, it runs out quicker. I've never checked the ppm... I'll have to take a look at the fert I use and see... the tester sounds like a good idea... how much do they cost?

I don't worry about the heavy rain thing, since here it pretty much only rains in the winter, and I wouldn't be fertilizing then.

With this system, when the fertilizer runs out, the tank stays full of water, so there is no air getting in the system.... just plain water going through instead of the fertilizer solution.

[kahili]

ok-last question. Is the tank constantly filling with water as the solution is sucked out? If so-doesn't that dilute the concentrate ? If so, then no matter what setting you have-its getting weaker and weaker? I don't think that I would like that, I would want to know exactly what the plants are getting-but at least you are not going to have any soluble salts build up (what Phil was expressing concern about with the dry soil).

The tester that I use is a good one-as long as you keep the probe end wet. You just have to make sure that the cap that goes over the end is always filled with the calibration solution. Probe replacements cost about $ 100.00 so its a costly mistake if dried out. Here is what I use http://www.specialty-lights.com/716080.html Takes about an hour to get the PH/EC results of a soil sample with it. You also have to calibrate it occasionally

[doubravsky]

Good question... I was worried about that as well. They have a little bit about that on their website in which they claim (take it or leave it ) that the amount stays constant, and that they had Peters do some kind of study. Here's the link to that page and a pic from it if you'd like to look:

http://www.ezfloinjection.com/2-4.asp

Thanks for the info on the tester, I'll check it out!

Dave

[doubravsky]

Ok... now I have one more question... I looked at the Peters 15-5-15 Cal Mag, and it recommended 200 ppm for continuous feeding. It also said 100 gallons of water per one lb of fertilizer would equal 179 ppm. So.... if I am using 8 lbs of fertilizer, and it takes 1300 gallons at the 1000:1 setting to empty the tank, then I am probably closer to the 100 ppm range, right?

I still won't increase the dosage, because at 1000:1 I'm going to go through a 25 lb bag every two weeks once I have all three stations connected to a tank. That's probably all the $$ I want to spend on fertilizer anyways... but at least I'll know about what ppm fertilizer I'm applying.

[Neofolis]

I've notice with most of the "soluble" fertilizers I have used, they are not particularly soluble, i.e. If I don't stir it into the water quite vigorously it settles on the bottom of the water and, if left to stand after being stirred, it also settles on the bottom. Is this the case for other soluble fertilizers and, if so, would this cause problems, firstly, with being left for a period in a tank and secondly, if used with sprinklers, etc., causing blockages. I've even considered looking for liquid fertilizers in an attempt to overcome this, because I would like to use some sort of injection system, but I don't think it would work with the fertilizers I have used.

[kahili]

Dave-I just read their page about the solution not diluting as more water filled the tank. I love where they actually say that you "could test their figures by using a EC meter (and that is exactly what I would do if I had one) but that they hope that you won't" lol " that you just trust them" I can't help but be cynical about it. I just don't think (esp for $ 55-65-the cost of it) that it can readjust its ratio at the top for the extra water added. Mine doesn't do that-if water is added to the solution-its a given that the EC level drops, and my injector costs over $ 400. If I lived near you, I'd be over there today with my meter testing it! I would also be worried about the "spiking" that they talked about, where the salts are concentrated at the bottom-although they do say that there is "gentle" agitation. We always have a stick in the bucket and I get real mad if that solution is not stirred before fertilizing. When I first make up the solution, I always use my hand in there to make sure that the clumps are all broken up-once that is done, then it does stay pretty soluble and just the act of stirring will suffice.

With your numbers: 100:1, 16 oz and end result being 179 ppm. First I multiplied the 16 oz times 10 ( converting the 100:1 to 1000:1) and you get 160 oz total needed. You are putting in 8 lbs which is 128 oz. That puts you at about 144ppm ( you had 20% less fert than you needed to get 179 ppm, 20% of 179 is 35 ppm (subtract from the 179 gets you 144.....I think this method works-not sure)). Then you factor in the extra 300 gallons of water that brings the ppm down-which is almost a third of the 1000:1. So 30% of the 144ppm is 43-so yes, you are about 100 ppm-assuming that what they say is correct about the concentrate not diluting. Otherwise you are below 100 ppm-maybe significantly. Not sure about this but it seems to me that you want your numbers higher in the growing season to get maxium growth with mature/semi mature palms. This gets back to me saying that I think its easier and cheaper to use a good slow release fert that will last at least 6 months and get more fert to the palms. I know that you could use more on the tropicals-EE's and bananas are both heavy feeders.

I did notice the price of soluble fert online was about $ 50/bag (25 lb) and I know that I pay half that price. Not sure what you are paying per bag, but it may be worth looking into buying wholesale and getting 15 or so bags at once to lower the price, or going in with some others near you that are also using soluble ferts. That may help to increase the ppm.

Or you could get one bag of slow release and put on at half strength just to supplement the fert program that you have going now.

Neofolis-you are right that sometimes the fert takes awhile to dissolve. In the spring, when the water from underground is colder, I will use really hot water to help dissolve the fert when I mix up the concentrate. And as I said above, I always use my hand to break up the clumps (its basically salt, so it doesn't hurt you-except if you have a open cut, then it stings and I always wash off my hand right away-but I cant risk the fert "spiking" in the injector and burning plants). The other thing that I try to do is make up the solution the day before so it sits in water for awhile, and that helps a lot to dissolve it. After that, just stirring it before using should be ok. We keep the solution until it is used up, and that may be days, depending on where we were in finishing fertilizing the crop for the week. There should not be problems with blockages in a sprinker system if the solution is stirred before using. I will say that it is a good idea to run water thru the system after using to help get the salt out of the system.

I think that most liquid ferts are of the organic nature (not positive about this) and thus, your numbers are going to be a lot lower.

[Phil]

Dave,

With our system, I don't even care about the calibration numbers. What I do is measure the parts per million of TDS at the hose end. One buys a meter to measure this. How much fertilizer you add may also depend on the salinity of the water you are starting with. Remember, municipal water in Encinitas has about 650 to 750 ppm of TDS. If you add a comparable amount of fertilizer, that's getting into a very salty solution. With our RO system, we drop the TDS down to about 25 and add about 100 to 150 ppm of fertilizer. So, you can see our finished water for the plants is about 25% as salty as regular city water. If one just counts on a number on the dial of a machine, you can't be totally sure what you are giving. This is a potential error I can't afford as we have 250,000 plants at the nursery that I could damage with too much salt.

Phil

[JT in Japan]

I'm bumping this thread for a couple reasons. It's timely, as I just installed my own EZ-flo today. And it's rich,with lots of timeless information. Dense with info at points too.

The TDS info from Phil was interesting. I measured my water today on a handheld meter (inaccurate, perhaps), at the "hose-end" of a drip emitter, and got 33 (before hooking up the EZ-flo). That seems really low, since Phil only gets to 25 after an RO process. Does anyone else get water this low out of their city tap? Is this in the realm of the possible?

JT