Fertilizer over mulch?

June 17, 2008

Howdy. I've been using the search function like crazy and have already gotten some advice from some folks in here, but am still having trouble getting to the bottom of this.

I currently have a guy who comes out and fertilizes. He injects some sort of liquid fertilizer into the ground around the palms, which I'm not entirely sure what it is. Apparently he said it doesn't have nitrogen or micronutrients, but rather other elements which he says help with root growth and stressed plants and such. I've never heard of this exactly. . .he also then puts apex palm plus granules on the surface in addition to whatever he's injecting. Once in awhile I think he uses a foliar spray if he feels something is lacking. I haven't necessarily seen amazing results from this and am unclear if there is a better way to do things. I've been trying to research to see what the best way to fertilize is.

I noticed that a lot of the granular products and various organic products people reccomend. But all say to put directly on the soil, not on mulch. My entire yard has a top layer of wood chips. I've heard people say this is good since it locks in moisture and conditions the soil as the mulch breaks down. However, this would seem to impede the application of a lot of products working effectively. So is it better not to have mulched so one can add compost, granules, organics more easily? It is impractical to move the mulch before applying things every time because there is so much of it pretty much everywhere, except maybe on the smallest plants.

Also, most directions say to apply fertilizer only when soil is moist. My fertilizer guy has never told me this and I'm sure he's come when it's dry out there a few times (though I do put irrigation on the next day usually).

Anyway, I don't really understand what my guy is injecting in the soil and if it is helping, hurting, or just neutral (unnecessary). And I'm not sure the granules of the apex are really dissolving into the soil successfully due to mulch.

Also, I have lots of other plantings around the palms. In areas where there is not palms, I don't think they are getting much fertilizer. Is there anything I should add to the equation to make sure everything is getting covered, without overfertilizing the palms (whose roots pretty much cover every square inch probably).

Lastly, someone mentioned about soil PH and that if soil is too acidic, plants may not be able to absorb nutrition as much and said some products to lower PH. What is a good way to test the soil to see if this is an issue? And if it is, do those products require the removal of the top layer of mulch to be effective?

So I guess my question is, what the heck do I do? As you can see from all the rambling above, I'm quite confused.

June 17, 2008

Welcome to our large, loving, if dysfunctional family!

To answer your questions, we'll need to know where you are.

Here in California, I've found it better and less expensive to not use fertilizers (chemical fertilizers) and concentrate on organic amendments to the soil and an ongoing program of enrichment instead.

In places like South Florida, where there isn't soil to speak of the calculus is very different.

Where are you?

dave

June 17, 2008

Hi Kevin,

Well you've come to the right place. I'm not the expert but there are plenty here who, I'm sure, will be able to answer all your questions. The thing I do know about is the mulch issue. The mulch you've spread around is one of the best things you can do for your garden. No need to move it around when fertilizing, the granular fertilzer will just work it's way down through the mulch as it gets dissolved with waterings and feed the plants. The cycle basically is that the mulch on the bottom near the moist dirt will rot and breakdown creating a rich humus that nurishes the soil and all the microbes and worms in it. As it breaks down, just add more mulch on top and the cycle continues. Now, if you've not added any composted (or pre-rotted) mulch/organic matter under the first application of mulch then those unrotted mulch chips will take nitrogen away from the top layer of soil in order to start breaking down. Now biggie though, just continue to add fertilizer on a regular basis, and once you get that first bottom layer nice and rotted you're on your way.

By the way, if you fill out our profile with your location then it'll help the experts to know where your at and what conditions your garden is seeing. Good luck.

June 17, 2008

I, by no means am an expert, but since I stumbled on your post and am bored at work right now, I will attempt to answer it. :mrlooney:

So what I am hearing you say is that you do not know what your fertilizer guy is doing and can not say if it is effective or not for your palms...What I am also hearing is that you do not know if it is worth it to pay for this fertilizer service or not.

I have some questions first before I attempt to answer some of your questions:

Why are you using a fertilizer service instead of doing it yourself?

How long have you been using this fertilizer service?

Do the palms look better now than before using the service?

Have you asked him what he is exactly injecting into your soil?

Are you paying him to just fertilize your palms or all of your plantings?

Actually, there are lots and lots of questions...

OK...so let's look at your questions now:

Yes, I think all granular fertilizers will recommend that you apply it to moist soil. I believe so the fertilizer will leach out evenly and not cause high concentrations of fertilizer to collect and "burn" your plants.

I have never injected anything to my soil. It sounds like it's one of those "value-added" services that just lines the guy's pocket with more of your money. With that said, you really need to know what he is injecting to say if it is a benefit or not. Lord knows there are many different ways to keep plants happy.

Having a layer of mulch is a good thing to keep your soil moist and reduce the amount of watering needed. I use compost for my mulch instead of wood chips. It accomplishes a few things for me by doing this: I add a lot of organics into my soil, keep in the moisture, reduce weeds, and it looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing to me.

I also use Apex Palm Plus. When I do fertilize, I work the granules into mulch. Some end up on top and some in middle and some go to the bottom. I believe that foliar feeding is the most effective way to fertilize. I should do it more frequently, but I am too lazy.

You should take a sample of your soil and take it to a good nursery to have it analyzed for you. It's all relative to the types of plants you are keeping. Some like the PH to be higher/lower than others. I tend to place plants with similar requirements in the same area so there are no issues.

Well, I hope that was useful. I am sure the more advanced/professionals here will chime in to provide better/more information for you. Good luck with your palms!

Joe

June 17, 2008

CromulentKevin said:
I currently have a guy who comes out and fertilizes. He injects some sort of liquid fertilizer into the ground around the palms, which I'm not entirely sure what it is. Apparently he said it doesn't have nitrogen or micronutrients, but rather other elements which he says help with root growth and stressed plants and such. I've never heard of this exactly. . .he also then puts apex palm plus granules on the surface in addition to whatever he's injecting. Once in awhile I think he uses a foliar spray if he feels something is lacking. I haven't necessarily seen amazing results from this and am unclear if there is a better way to do things. I've been trying to research to see what the best way to fertilize is.

Anyway, I don't really understand what my guy is injecting in the soil and if it is helping, hurting, or just neutral (unnecessary). And I'm not sure the granules of the apex are really dissolving into the soil successfully due to mulch.

Hello, and welcome to PT.

Just my thoughts on what the guy you have hired to care for you plants is doing: ask for a product label of anything that he is using on your plants...i am not saying anything about him or his treatments, but if he is a professional he will be forthcoming and educate you. ...it is his duty to do so as a contractor.

I was an ISA certified arborist, and all of my clients had access to any and all of the products and procedures we utilized to care for their trees....granted, some didn't care, but we always made every effort to keep the client informed.

best of luck...and don't forget to keep coming to Palmtalk...you are always welcome!

Rusty

June 17, 2008

Oh, I thought my profile said my location. I am in Temecula, CA (i.e. inland southern california about an hour northeast of San Diego).

I'm going to go through these replies in more detail later, as there already is a lot of info to pour over.

I have asked my fertilizer guy (who is a tree specialist, btw, though not necessarily a palm specialist) about what he is injecting and I felt the answer was a bit ambiguous. I should grill him again and get a more exact answer, then post it here so y'all can tell me what you think.

As far as foliar sprays, I should ask what he has done with that as well. The one thing that is good about this guy that I am not able to do myself is to spray anything up into larger trees like queen palms. A few years ago my queen palms had a large amount of miting and were looking pretty bad. He was able to spray up there and take care of the issue. I could obviously spray the foliage of almost anything, but not things like queen palms.

The basic reasoning I'm using a guy is that I don't feel confident of what I'm doing and feel like something is better than nothing. Plus, he has the ability to do a few things I'm not able to (such as the above mentioned spraying of high trees). So I'm on the fence whether I should take over completely or whether I should find some products I think will be good and then have him apply them.

I'll respond more to individual posts later on and as more replies come in. Thanks.

June 17, 2008

CromulentKevin said:
Oh, I thought my profile said my location. I am in Temecula, CA (i.e. inland southern california about an hour northeast of San Diego).

I'm going to go through these replies in more detail later, as there already is a lot of info to pour over.

I have asked my fertilizer guy (who is a tree specialist, btw, though not necessarily a palm specialist) about what he is injecting and I felt the answer was a bit ambiguous. I should grill him again and get a more exact answer, then post it here so y'all can tell me what you think.

As far as foliar sprays, I should ask what he has done with that as well. The one thing that is good about this guy that I am not able to do myself is to spray anything up into larger trees like queen palms. A few years ago my queen palms had a large amount of miting and were looking pretty bad. He was able to spray up there and take care of the issue. I could obviously spray the foliage of almost anything, but not things like queen palms.

The basic reasoning I'm using a guy is that I don't feel confident of what I'm doing and feel like something is better than nothing. Plus, he has the ability to do a few things I'm not able to (such as the above mentioned spraying of high trees). So I'm on the fence whether I should take over completely or whether I should find some products I think will be good and then have him apply them.

I'll respond more to individual posts later on and as more replies come in. Thanks.

Kevin, I wont comment on your california soil or ammemdments, Im sure someone here has actually done it there under california conditions. However, HIGH soil PH precipitates out manganese, magnesium, and makes the iron uptake difficult. Some palms like brahea armata and bismarckia are not as dependent on these trace elements, so they will not be unhappy in a high pH soil. Queens, and many others are heavily dependent on these traces for their health, so if your soil is high in pH, a squirt of fertilizer with traces probably wont do the job as they will quickly precipitate out and not be available to your palms. pH adjustment can be performed with aluminum sulfate(fast pH change, be careful), epsom salt(slower, but adds magnesium), or soil sulfur(slowest, no burn risk). Since I started out with high pH(~10) calcerous clay soil, I have some experience adjusting soil pH. I use the soil sulfur 3x a year or so, and epsom salts in the spring, 1x. Epsom salts assure the solubility of magnesium(needed for the queens) by pairing it with a strong lewis acid(sulfate). no more chemistry lessons, I promise. You dont want TOO MUCH magnesium in your soil that is bad as well, so the sulfur is your safest bet unless you use a pH tester and adjust you soil in stages(wait a few days between tests) with the aluminum sulfate. You can buy a pH tester at home depot for $20-30 or so. Follow the directions carefully, its not highly accurate, but it will get the point across(basic or not). If your soil is highly basic(pH=9 or over), its time to start adding sulfur, and perhaps some epsom salt. There are other ways to test soil pH(even with your pool pH tester), but they require that you be more of a chemist, like me.

Edited June 17, 2008 by sonoranfans

June 17, 2008

Your Queen palms had mites? Outdoors in Temecula? Hmmmmmm.

If you do get more detailed info from your guy make sure you write down the amounts of the elements, ie. the gauranteed analysis on the back of a fertilizer bag. It's important.

I suspect that after a little education you might wanna just take over with your tree care. It's not that hard. Most of it is in the learning and there's not that much basic stuff to know. There's lots of finer details that we like to discuss at nauseum here on Palm Talk, but the basics are usually easily understood and applied. If you need someone to spray up high then you can always hire someone for a round of spraying right? Heck, for a 6 pack of beer I'll come over, climb your tree, spray some stuff up there, fall off, drink some more beer, climb your tree, did I say that already? :wacko:

June 17, 2008

Interesting issues here. I am pretty sure that the slow release fertilizers will give a better and more even release if they are down in the mulch/soil a bit so they stay moist longer. But I can't imagine any reason why being on top of the mulch would be any better or worse than being on top of the soil. Mulch is nice though because it's easier to work the fertilizer into than soil.

Regarding foliar fertilizing, I thought that palms did not feed well, or maybe not at all, through their leaves. Unlike many other types of plants palms cannot transport many nutrients to leaves once they are open. This is why most deficiencies in palms need a long treatment program to see results which will show only on the new leaves. Nitrogen is the one nutrient that I know is brought into palm leaves that are already open/fully formed. But potassium and phosphate are not. So there may be specific cases and specific nutrients which will benefit a palm (or at least the mature leaves) in some cases, but I am pretty certain that many required nutrients will not be available to a palm through foliar feeding. Some quick googling seems to confirm my suspicions and I think there is not clear evidence either way about whether foliar feeding is beneficial, but clearly feeding the roots/soil is necessary.

As for mulch, I also use compost. If you use non-composted materials, your fertilizer requirements will be higher as the decomposition process uses nitrogen. I also don't like getting slivers.

Matt

June 17, 2008

joe_OC said:
I, by no means am an expert, but since I stumbled on your post and am bored at work right now, I will attempt to answer it.

So what I am hearing you say is that you do not know what your fertilizer guy is doing and can not say if it is effective or not for your palms...What I am also hearing is that you do not know if it is worth it to pay for this fertilizer service or not.

I have some questions first before I attempt to answer some of your questions:

Why are you using a fertilizer service instead of doing it yourself? NOT SO MUCH THAT I'M LAZY, BUT THAT UNLESS I HAVE A REALLY GOOD GAMEPLAN IT IS LIKELY I'LL DO NOTHING AND I FIGURE SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING, BUT LATELY I'M NOT SO SURE.

How long have you been using this fertilizer service? Do the palms look better now than before using the service? A COUPLE YEARS NOW. I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE I WAS SEEING IMPROVEMENT, BUT AFTER THE BIG FREEZE IN JAN '07, THINGS ARE STILL TRYING TO RECOVER, SO IT IS PRETTY HARD TO TELL IF THERE IS IMPROVEMENT OR NOT. AT ONE POINT THE QUEENS HAD HORRENDOUS SPOTTING/WEBBING ON THEM, WHICH THE GUY ATTRIBUTED TO MITES. MAYBE IT WASN'T MITES, WHO KNOWS, BUT AFTER HE SPRAYED THE SPOTTING STOPPED WITH THE NEW GROWTH.

Have you asked him what he is exactly injecting into your soil? I'M PLANNING ON FIGURING THAT OUT MORE AND POSTING DETAILED INFO HERE

Are you paying him to just fertilize your palms or all of your plantings? MOSTLY MY PALMS. HE'LL DO THE TURF (WHICH BY THE WAY ALWAYS LOOKS LIKE CRAP AND PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE AERATED / DETHATCHED) AND SOME SURROUNDING PLANTS, BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HIS PRIME GOAL. THAT IS WHY I'M ALSO CURIOUS WHAT A GOOD WAY IS TO FERTILIZE THINGS SURROUNDING PALMS WITHOUT OVERDOING IT. I HAVE CANNAS, BANANAS, PHILODENDRON, VARIOUS LILLY SPECIES, PASSIONFLOWER VINES, GINGER, FERNS, ELEPHANT EAR SPECIES, ETC. SOME OF THEM PROBABLY AREN'T GETTING FERTILIZED AS MUCH AS THEY COULD. I WONDER IF WE WERE LESS DELIBERATE WITH THE PALM FERTILIZER IF THAT WOULD MAKE OTHER PLANTS GET MORE NUTRITION AS WELL. LIKE INSTEAD OF CAREFULLY DOING THE DRIPLINE OF EACH PALM, ALSO BROADCASTING PALM SPECIFIC STUFF ELSEWHERE TOO. IT WOULD SEEM LIKE ADDED MICRONUTRIENTS WOULDN'T HURT ANYTHING. THOUGH SOME OF THE STUFF PROBABLY WANTS MORE NITROGEN THAN PALM FOOD WOULD NORMALLY HAVE.

Actually, there are lots and lots of questions...

OK...so let's look at your questions now:

Yes, I think all granular fertilizers will recommend that you apply it to moist soil. I believe so the fertilizer will leach out evenly and not cause high concentrations of fertilizer to collect and "burn" your plants. I'LL START DOING THIS IN THE FUTURE, MAKING SURE SOIL IS WET BEFORE APPLYING.

I have never injected anything to my soil. It sounds like it's one of those "value-added" services that just lines the guy's pocket with more of your money. With that said, you really need to know what he is injecting to say if it is a benefit or not. Lord knows there are many different ways to keep plants happy. I THINK THE GUY IS HONEST AND IS DOING WHAT HE THINKS IS BEST AND NOT JUST DOING IT FOR THE ILLUSION OF VALUE. BUT I HAVE A WEIRD FEELING THIS PROCESS MIGHT BE BETTER SUITED TO LIKE NORMAL TREES RATHER THAN PALMS. THE GUY IS REALLY NICE AND WILLING TO TALK AND HAVE ME RAMBLE AT HIM. BUT AFTER LONG CONVERSATIONS, I FEEL LIKE WE NEVER REALLY RESOLVE THINGS AND FIND A SOLID GAMEPLAN. I REALIZE THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO DO THINGS THOUGH OF COURSE.

Having a layer of mulch is a good thing to keep your soil moist and reduce the amount of watering needed. I use compost for my mulch instead of wood chips. It accomplishes a few things for me by doing this: I add a lot of organics into my soil, keep in the moisture, reduce weeds, and it looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing to me. I USE CEDAR WOOD CHIPS. THEY DON'T GIVE AS MUCH OF THE NATURAL/JUNGLY LOOK AS I'M PROBABLY GOING FOR IN MY YARD, BUT I THINK IT LOOKS WEIRD TO HAVE JUST DIRT. THEY ARE SHREDDED, SO IT DOESN'T LOOK AS SILLY AS LIKE WESTERN BARK OR SOMETHING. AND IT IS NOT COLORED, SO IT GREYS AND BLENDS IN TO LOOK MORE NATURAL. EVENTUALLY MY GOAL IS TO FILL IN THE PLANTINGS SO MUCH THAT ONE REALLY DOES NOT SEE ANY DIRT FROM THE FRONT VIEW. AT THAT POINT, I COULD MOVE TO MORE COMPOST AND ORGANICS I THINK. I'M SURE SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT PLANTS NEED MORE ROOM, BUT I JUST REALLY LIKE THE JUNGLE LOOK WHERE THINGS ARE NOT SO CLEARLY DEFINED. PLUS I HAVE A SMALL YARD.

I also use Apex Palm Plus. When I do fertilize, I work the granules into mulch. Some end up on top and some in middle and some go to the bottom. I believe that foliar feeding is the most effective way to fertilize. I should do it more frequently, but I am too lazy. AFTER GRANULES ARE APPLIED, I PROBABLY SHOULD TRY TO WORK THEM INTO THE MULCH. IS IT BEST TO DO THIS MECHANICALLY LIKE WITH HANDS OR TOOLS OR TO TRY TO WORK IT IN WITH A HOSE BLAST OR SOMETHING? I NOTICED THAT THE PALM PLUS DOESN'T HAVE BORON AS A TRACE ELEMENT AND SOME OTHER PALM SPECIFIC FERTILIZERS I'VE LOOKED AT RECENTLY DO. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUEEN PALMS WITH WEIRD SYMPTOMS LIKE LEAFLETS STICKING TOGETHER THAT LOOK LIKE ARTICLES I'VE SEEN ABOUT BORON DEFICIENCY. IT DOESN'T LOOK THE SAME I THINK AS FRIZZLETOP, WHICH I THINK IS MANGANESE PROBLEMS. BUT THE ARTICLE ALSO SAID, ADDING BORON MAY NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM ANYWAY AND BORON DEFICIENCY IS NOT ALL THAT UNDERSTOOD. ONE OF THE ONES I SAW THAT HAD BORON WAS A WATER SOLUBLE MIX, WHICH I GUESS WAS MEANT TO BE MIXED IN A BUCKET AND POURED AT THE BASE OF EACH PALM. THIS MIGHT WORK WELL, BUT IT DOES SEEM AWFULLY TIME CONSUMING TO DO THIS FOR EVERY TREE I HAVE.

You should take a sample of your soil and take it to a good nursery to have it analyzed for you. It's all relative to the types of plants you are keeping. Some like the PH to be higher/lower than others. I tend to place plants with similar requirements in the same area so there are no issues. I WILL GET A SOIL TESTER OR TAKE TO A NURSERY TO GET A ROUGH IDEA OF PH. I KNOW IT WON'T BE SUPER ACCURATE IF IT ISN'T A LAB OR SOMETHING, BUT IT SHOULD AT LEAST GIVE ME AN IDEA IF IT'S WAY HIGH OR SOMETHING

Well, I hope that was useful. I am sure the more advanced/professionals here will chime in to provide better/more information for you. Good luck with your palms!

Joe

Hey Joe. Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll post my responses up where I quoted you in CAPITAL LETTERS like I'm yelling, but really not. I apologize in advance for not having the ability to write anything without rambling. I was born without the ability to be concise.

June 17, 2008

One thing I realized I should clarify; I still water by hand right now (ugh) so if I spread some granular out, it's washed into the mulch as soon as I spray it down. Someone using drip or a fine mist as irrigation won't have the same results.

June 17, 2008

MattyB said:
Your Queen palms had mites? Outdoors in Temecula? Hmmmmmm.

If you do get more detailed info from your guy make sure you write down the amounts of the elements, ie. the gauranteed analysis on the back of a fertilizer bag. It's important.

I suspect that after a little education you might wanna just take over with your tree care. It's not that hard. Most of it is in the learning and there's not that much basic stuff to know. There's lots of finer details that we like to discuss at nauseum here on Palm Talk, but the basics are usually easily understood and applied. If you need someone to spray up high then you can always hire someone for a round of spraying right? Heck, for a 6 pack of beer I'll come over, climb your tree, spray some stuff up there, fall off, drink some more beer, climb your tree, did I say that already?

Heck, I'd give you some Stone Arrogant Bastard Ale or some Chimay blue label (i.e. the good stuff) to laugh as you fell out of my trees

Although a better way to do it would probably be to like have a machine that could spray up there, but that wouldn't be as hilarious.

June 17, 2008

MattyB said:
One thing I realized I should clarify; I still water by hand right now (ugh) so if I spread some granular out, it's washed into the mulch as soon as I spray it down. Someone using drip or a fine mist as irrigation won't have the same results.

Ouch, hand watering. I'm too lazy to handwater like the five plants which don't get coverage.

Of course, I have actual sprinklers, not drip system.

Which I understand is bad because I know some smaller palms don't like overhead watering and a lot of palm trunks are being blasted. That could explain a couple of instances of rot I had on pygmies. Though they don't feel spongy at base and the roots look basically normal. Those rotted from the crown.

But since I have pretty dense plantings and plan on getting even denser, it would be pretty tough to get adequate coverage from drip lines. Plus I don't like the look of them being on the surface like that and having to step on them. Yeah, I do have a few ugly sprinkler risers, but if there was little microheads and lines everywhere as I was trying to weasel through my plants to get to something, it seems like a hassle.

I have a very small yard for the amount of plants and palms I have. I'm silly like that. It's like I enjoy making myself work harder

June 17, 2008

Matt in SD said:
Interesting issues here. I am pretty sure that the slow release fertilizers will give a better and more even release if they are down in the mulch/soil a bit so they stay moist longer. But I can't imagine any reason why being on top of the mulch would be any better or worse than being on top of the soil. Mulch is nice though because it's easier to work the fertilizer into than soil.

Regarding foliar fertilizing, I thought that palms did not feed well, or maybe not at all, through their leaves. Unlike many other types of plants palms cannot transport many nutrients to leaves once they are open. This is why most deficiencies in palms need a long treatment program to see results which will show only on the new leaves. Nitrogen is the one nutrient that I know is brought into palm leaves that are already open/fully formed. But potassium and phosphate are not. So there may be specific cases and specific nutrients which will benefit a palm (or at least the mature leaves) in some cases, but I am pretty certain that many required nutrients will not be available to a palm through foliar feeding. Some quick googling seems to confirm my suspicions and I think there is not clear evidence either way about whether foliar feeding is beneficial, but clearly feeding the roots/soil is necessary.

As for mulch, I also use compost. If you use non-composted materials, your fertilizer requirements will be higher as the decomposition process uses nitrogen. I also don't like getting slivers.

Matt

So pretty much everyone on the forum is named Matt, eh? Heh heh.

I've heard people say that systemic products don't work well on palms, but that was in reference to insecticide and whatnot. I would think the same could hold true for foliar fertilizing.

June 17, 2008

By the way, since I'm new to this forum, I figured I should introduce myself a little better so y'all have an idea who you're talking to and where I'm coming from.

I'm 26 years old. Self-employed selling broadcast video equipment (only job I've ever had). Single right now. Got a house in Temecula straight out of college and had big plans to remodel it, most of which have not been executed yet. I enjoy long walks on the beach and romance novels (just kidding, but I had to throw that in there because this was starting to sound like a personal ad). I get bored working, so I tend to take up somewhat unusual hobbies. I especially like obscure sports. I've entered strongman and powerlifting competitions, even though I'm really not all that strong. But I really got into competitive eating in the last couple of years and got involved in the pro eating circuit. I know, pretty silly, but it's actually really fun and a great excuse to travel and meet new people. I am currently ranked 29th in the nation by IFOCE now called major league eating (the people that throw most of the major eating competitions). I am hoping to get into the Nathan's hot dog eating contest this year, which I haven't been able to do yet. They have qualifiers for it. If you win a qualifier, you go to the big event on July 4th which they show on ESPN every year. My qualifier is coming up this weekend, so everybody wish me luck! By the way, I don't eat meat apart from eating contests, so it's pretty funny to people that know me to see me shoveling hot dogs down my eat hole.

Anyway, just wanted to let people know a little something about me.

June 18, 2008

That's awesome Kevin! It's great to meet you and learn a bit about you. You've gotta come to the next Palm Society of SoCal meeting and meet all the locals who frequent palmtalk. It's fun meeting new people and seeing the kick a$$ gardens. Good luck on your qualifier. You should train your stomach with that expandable foam that they use in construction. Uhhh, or not.

June 18, 2008

MattyB said:
That's awesome Kevin! It's great to meet you and learn a bit about you. You've gotta come to the next Palm Society of SoCal meeting and meet all the locals who frequent palmtalk. It's fun meeting new people and seeing the kick a$$ gardens. Good luck on your qualifier. You should train your stomach with that expandable foam that they use in construction. Uhhh, or not.

Yeah, I am definitely interested in that. I've been interested in palms/gardening for quite awhile, but I am finally motivated to learn what the heck I'm doing and do it from a more knowledgable place. I would love to meet people in the area and see their stuff and get a lot of ideas and info (and meeting new people is always a plus). And if anyone ever wants to hit up a buffet, you know who to ask.

I've thought of all sorts of wacky ways to train. I even came close to sticking hot dogs and buns in a blender, but decided against it at the last second My stomach capacity is actually ready for how many hot dogs I have to throw down. The problem is, that hot dogs and soggy buns become REALLY gross about halfway through. Then it becomes a mental game to keep swallowing even though your brain is screaming at you to stop. Especially for someone like me who seldom eats meat. People never realize how hard it is until they try it themselves. If I can not gag on the silly things, I think I have a really good chance to win this weekend. I'll post on here with results!

June 18, 2008

Kevin,

You really need to meet Bill Sanford (BS Man About Palms username). He is the #2 contender on the amateur eating circuit. I have witnessed a few events. With proper training he could go pro.

What company do you use? Plant-Tek? What palms do you treat? Large Canary's?

June 18, 2008

I love these discussions-you always learn something new....

To add to it-the reason that people say not to fertilize a plant that is in dry soil is because when the soil dries, the soluble salts accumulate/concentrate at the top of the soil, and makes the roots more vulnerable to burning from the additional salts that you are adding with the new application of fertilizer. This only applies to foliar (liquid) fertilizer-not to a slow release granular. Slow release can be added safely to dry soil because it doesn't release all at once, and it won't start to release until there is moisture.

In the spring, when the soil temps have warmed up, I go around with several different types of slow release and also epsom salts and topdress (add to the top of the soil or mulch) all the different plants that I have in the ground. I use a triple 14 (14-14-14) sulfur coated around some of the plants/tropicals that might bloom, and with the palms, bananas and alocasias/colocasias I add 19-6-12 to give a good boost of nitrogen and phosphorus. I use Multicote ( for the 19-6-12)which will last until it starts to get cooler here. I also add the epsom salts to the above plants, just a handful to two, depending on the size of the plant. Epsom salts doesn't really do that much to bring down the PH in soil. some horticulturists (PHds) will tell you that it doesn't bring it down at all-but at any rate, its not enough to make a difference if your PH is that high, but it does do a good job in adding extra magnesium to the soil. Some people use acidic fertilizers (liquid) to aid in bringing down the PH also, but again, its not a very effective way to bring it down. You can add the slow release yourself-easy to do. There are different types with different NPK amts and also with different micronutrient amts as well. You are right that boron deficiencies are sometimes a mystery. I know for a fact that pansies will get a boron dificiency from too much heat, and then as soon as the weather cools down, the pansy will start to take it up again. You can apply boron from adding Borax (used in laundries), though I have never done it. Just like you can lower the PH with battery acid (sulfuric acid) witch is short term, but the quickest way-in just a few days, you will see a difference.

I do think that it is probably more effective to get the slow release down in the soil, or at least scratch back the mulch in a circle around the plant to add the slow release, but I just throw it on the top and it gets the job done. Gravity ensures that the fert inside the capsule will go down-just not as well. I always add a fairly good amt, I think that people (landscapers anyway) usually don't add enough slow release. But you do have to be careful.

Matt in SD-thats interesting to hear that about palms not being able to take up foliar thru their leaves, never heard that before. Actually, I didn't think that there were many plants that couldn't take up foliar thru the leaves. I know that I foliar feed all my palms that are in containers in the winter with foliar and don't see any deficiencies, but I also drench the soil as well as the leaves.

I think that palms are capable of utilizing a systemic insecticide (goes into the plant either thru the roots or the leaves-the most effective ones are thru the roots, and more expensive as a rule). In other words-you don't have to spray the leaves, it just takes longer to use a systemic than contact kill thru spraying the leaves.

Hope I didn't give too much info at once and that this helps. Taking care of your plants yourself is a great way to learn more about them. This is a great place to come with questions

June 18, 2008

LJG said:
Kevin,

You really need to meet Bill Sanford (BS Man About Palms username). He is the #2 contender on the amateur eating circuit. I have witnessed a few events. With proper training he could go pro.

What company do you use? Plant-Tek? What palms do you treat? Large Canary's?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, heh heh, but you're welcome to tell this person to message me if he is interested and indeed exists. I don't know how to search for usernames on here, otherwise I would look at some of his posts and whatnot. I always like to meet people who like to gorge.

I don't want to post the name of the company I use because I wouldn't want anything negative said about a specific company on a public forum. He's a really nice guy, so I wouldn't want to do anything to sully his name (he might be doing an excellent job for all I know). But anyway, it is not Plant-tek though.

I don't have any canaries. I have a pretty small yard, so I don't have the scale for that. Plus, I just don't like them that much. The biggest palms I have are queens and pindo. I also have the other usual suspects (fortuneii, robeleniis, etc). I have some more interesting varieties I'm trying out such as dypsis decaryi, allagoptera arenaria, chambeyronia macrocarpa, some type of chamaedorea which I forgot the name, king palm, ravenea glauca, teddy bear, and several others which I can't think of right now. I'm willing to try plenty of stuff which has no business growing in Temecula. Some seem to be remarkably alive so far, though granted very few things look a lush dark green or whatever and the more unusual species for this area are all pretty new - so no telling how long they'll last for. I realize that for coastal areas many of these plants are no big deal and pretty common, but in Temecula area they are pretty few and far between. I have a majesty that is doing surprisingly well, not yellowed out or anything and getting fairly big. It just seems to really like it in the area it happened to be planted in, kind of against the house. Not all the plants are planted in the right spot regarding water amount, drainage, level of sun, etc. . .I would move the chambeyronia if I could to a shadier spot, for example, if I had it to do over again. But now I feel it is better suited to leave it put to try to get established and hope for the best, rather than trying to dig it up and move it and risk freaking it out.

June 18, 2008

Thanks for the post Kahili. I am printing out all these posts people are making and I'm going to save them and look back over them as I try to establish a good plan.

June 22, 2008

I said I'd post here about results from my hot dog eating qualifier. Unfortunately, I made a tactical error at the end and let victory slip through my fingers. I was leading by a dog or two the entire time. The rules state that whatever you shove in your mouth at the end counts, so long as you eventually swallow it (chipmunking, they call it). Anyway, I was feeling a little woozy as the clock was winding down and thought I had enough of a lead. So I didn't risk stuffing my mouth full at the end. I just finished up my 20th dog. But the guy next to me (Nasty Nate Biller) shoved in an entire dog and bun right at the end. . .to tie my exactly with 20. This led to the worst words I could have heard. . .2 minute eat off. I was already feeling squeamish and wasn't prepared for this. It ended up with Nate getting 5 more and me eating 3 clean and doing a desperate chipmunk at the end to try to match his 25. It didn't work out, heh heh, and I just spit it out. So yeah, that was gross. But in the end I ate 23-24 hot dogs depending on how you look at it. . .and no ticket to the finals on Coney. I have another chance next weekend, but am not sure yet if I'm going to go for it or not. But I'm sure in a few days I'll get motivated again and in better spirits. So close!! I'm kicking myself for not shoving in even half a dog right at the end.

June 24, 2008

Wow Kevin, thats a lot of dogs, sorry for your loss but, im not sure I really am, as thats a lot of food!!

ggod luck if you plan to adventure out and do it again!

June 29, 2008

Just wanted to let my new palm friends know that I gave the hot dog eating qualifier a second chance today and it worked out! I'll be going to the big show at Coney Island this Friday, July 4th! Hopefully some of you will watch on ESPN and tell me what you think of the show!

Kevin Ross

April 24, 2014

On 6/17/2008 at 4:03 PM, CromulentKevin said:

Howdy. I've been using the search function like crazy and have already gotten some advice from some folks in here, but am still having trouble getting to the bottom of this.
I currently have a guy who comes out and fertilizes. He injects some sort of liquid fertilizer into the ground around the palms, which I'm not entirely sure what it is. Apparently he said it doesn't have nitrogen or micronutrients, but rather other elements which he says help with root growth and stressed plants and such. I've never heard of this exactly. . .he also then puts apex palm plus granules on the surface in addition to whatever he's injecting. Once in awhile I think he uses a foliar spray if he feels something is lacking. I haven't necessarily seen amazing results from this and am unclear if there is a better way to do things. I've been trying to research to see what the best way to fertilize is.
I noticed that a lot of the granular products and various organic products people reccomend. But all say to put directly on the soil, not on mulch. My entire yard has a top layer of wood chips. I've heard people say this is good since it locks in moisture and conditions the soil as the mulch breaks down. However, this would seem to impede the application of a lot of products working effectively. So is it better not to have mulched so one can add compost, granules, organics more easily? It is impractical to move the mulch before applying things every time because there is so much of it pretty much everywhere, except maybe on the smallest plants.
Also, most directions say to apply fertilizer only when soil is moist. My fertilizer guy has never told me this and I'm sure he's come when it's dry out there a few times (though I do put irrigation on the next day usually).
Anyway, I don't really understand what my guy is injecting in the soil and if it is helping, hurting, or just neutral (unnecessary). And I'm not sure the granules of the apex are really dissolving into the soil successfully due to mulch.
Also, I have lots of other plantings around the palms. In areas where there is not palms, I don't think they are getting much fertilizer. Is there anything I should add to the equation to make sure everything is getting covered, without overfertilizing the palms (whose roots pretty much cover every square inch probably).
Lastly, someone mentioned about soil PH and that if soil is too acidic, plants may not be able to absorb nutrition as much and said some products to lower PH. What is a good way to test the soil to see if this is an issue? And if it is, do those products require the removal of the top layer of mulch to be effective?
So I guess my question is, what the heck do I do? As you can see from all the rambling above, I'm quite confused.

I put my granular fertilizer on top of my mulch - seems to work well.

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