Growing Palm Seedlings under a grow light

[EastCountyPalms]

I have some 400 watt and 1000 watt high sodium grow lights. Do you think they would be good for growing palm seedlings. I was thinking of doing a test run on some p. reclinatas, and some cycas revoluta seedlings at 20 hour a day light cycles.

Does anyone know what the ideal NPK ratio for palms or are they all different? I was thinking a 3:1:3 ratio.

Maybe I will do the other half organically. Anyone else tried growing under a grow light yet? Ideas?

[Xavierdlc61887]

sent u a pm

[merrill]

Hi, East:

My impression is that large Phoenix, for example, have a higher potassium requirement than other palms. In general, slow growing palms would have a lower Potassium and Nitrogen requirement.

Other posters have killed relatively small palms w/ powerful lamps. I'm about to set up red LED which seem to have a spectrum that almost perfectly matches the red plant growth spectrum. These are VERY cool, and use so little electricity as to be almost absurd!.

Best Wishes, merrill

[merrill]

Deleted

Edited May 31, 2008 by merrill

[Kris]

Dear Derek

i germinate & grow my palm seedlings & saplings indoors due to squrieal attack...if not i can keep my palms in the shade of dicot trees...

i hail from a hot tropical country and still i have to use a couple of tube lights each 40 watts,and a couple of celing fans also around 40 watts each...if i do not use these the plants die due to damp-off !

here is the visuals of my temperature guage placed in the area of my plam seedlings...Indoors.

in the height of our summer this what my guage reads...

And here our winters are wet & are less warm...but not cold.

And the net result of my climate is that palms & plants grow like crazy...even the slow growing huge trunking varities...

Love,

Kris

By the way only one down side is that i do not have sufficient space in our house to grow all the palms that i seen here in this site...shurely the climate is condusive to create a palm botanical garden out here..

[EastCountyPalms]

Hi, East:

My impression is that large Phoenix, for example, have a higher potassium requirement than other palms. In general, slow growing palms would have a lower Potassium and Nitrogen requirement.

Other posters have killed relatively small palms w/ powerful lamps. I'm about to set up red LED which seem to have a spectrum that almost perfectly matches the red plant growth spectrum. These are VERY cool, and use so little electricity as to be almost absurd!.

Best Wishes, merrill

Let me know about this red LED.

[sonoranfans]

I have used a 400W metal halide(MH) to grow seedlings, its a bit touchy with the burn as these bulbs have uneven light, with some hotspots. I have had some success with archontophoenix alexandre and maxima, but my livistona jenkinsana didnt like the light at all(at a 4' distance). Unfortunately my archontos had to be separated at least 4' from the light to avoid leaflet burn and that led to some elongation. I have a sun systems "supersun 2" light and ballast that is switchable between sodium and MH. When I researched the lights, I found that these lights(MH and sodium) are not the best for small seedlings, they tend to work better on large seedlings to large plants as their light distribution is not as even(have hot spots). The best light for small seedlings is a T5 fluorescent light. The T5's arent as intense and can be placed closer to the plants, giving an even light distribution without the harsh hot spots at close range(<18"). As the seedlings become larger, the metal halides are the best in that they will give the best growth. With large plants, the T5's arent so effective as they lack the light intensity of the MH or sodium bulbs.

Edited June 2, 2008 by sonoranfans

[merrill]

Hi, East:

Let's see if this will post:

http://www.ledgrowlights.com/sales_retail.htm#R180XB

This seemed the best deal a few months ago, but I'm going to look more. My impression is that red grolights are the best avenue to enhance blooming. If you find more watts for less $, I'd be very grateful if you shared it. There seems to be a great lack of info on the number of watts required, altho it certainly would be far less than the other possibilities.

Best Wishes, merrill

[BigFrond]

It's gonna cost lots of $$$ to germinate the seeds. You might as well buy the 5 or 10 gal palms. I had three 500 watts for my reef tank, blasting 8 hours a day 4 years ago. Hehehe... my electricity bill was well over $300 a month. You can guess what happen to my reef tank.

[sonoranfans]

It's gonna cost lots of $$$ to germinate the seeds. You might as well buy the 5 or 10 gal palms. I had three 500 watts for my reef tank, blasting 8 hours a day 4 years ago. Hehehe... my electricity bill was well over $300 a month. You can guess what happen to my reef tank.

1500 watts on a reeftank sounds like a huge tank, as 500 watts is good for 120 gallons. Just running the pump on that tank must be more than $50 a month. Reef tanks are pricey in other ways beyond the power comsumption. You might find that the new electronic ballasts are more efficient than they used to be. The T5 fluorescents are much cheaper ~1/2 to run your tank with(less watts needed with more even light distribution), and they work just as well as long as the tank is no deeper than 24". The T5's for reef tanks are all the rage in europe, they have displaced the metal halides due to economics(and less heating, no need for a chiller).

I would certainly buy the 5-10 gallon palms if I could get them here. If I have them shipped in from CA or especially FLA, these palms need alot of acclimation to the AZ heat, sun(and dry) or they will burn up. My approach is to grow them from small seedlings so they will adapt to the heat. I put them through stages of increasing heat/light, gradually. It seems that my 2nd year archonto alexandre seedlings are tougher, more adapted than the foxtails(of the same size) that I recently had shipped from florida. And those kings are also tougher than a 1 gallon(not seedling) teddy bear that I had shipped from CA. Never thought I'd see that, but ... the proof is in the backyard under shadecloth. Those kings may never make it outside here ultimately, but they are interesting in that they seem to indicate the value of acclimation to the climate.

Edited June 3, 2008 by sonoranfans

[ghar41]

I started some Lepidorachis mooreana seedlings under flourescent "grow" lights (40-60 watts) and theyve grown nice and deep green. I planted them in tiny pots, in pure sphagnum peat, and watered them with pond water. All 15 plants are still alive and look great.

Id be hesitant to use the sodium vapor grow lights of that kind of wattage for palms, unless you really know what youre doing. I think they are just too hot and bright for many species of palm seedlings and are much better suited to growing faster growing plants like vegetables or marijuana.

[sonoranfans]

I started some Lepidorachis mooreana seedlings under flourescent "grow" lights (40-60 watts) and theyve grown nice and deep green. I planted them in tiny pots, in pure sphagnum peat, and watered them with pond water. All 15 plants are still alive and look great.

Id be hesitant to use the sodium vapor grow lights of that kind of wattage for palms, unless you really know what youre doing. I think they are just too hot and bright for many species of palm seedlings and are much better suited to growing faster growing plants like vegetables or marijuana.

This is true, and its really the watts(or lumens)/area that is the killer. 40 watts over a 48" fluorescence bulb isnt much compared with 400 watts being put out by a 6" metal halide, MH(or sodium) bulb. The T5 flourescence bulbs are much more efficient than standard fluorescence bulbs, and will work very well for small seedlings. The T5's will cost more for the bulbs and fixtures, but they will grow seedlings alot faster. As the palms grow bigger, the Metal Halide lights will work much better, if you plant to keep larger palms inside. Sodium bulbs have a better color spectrum for flowers, but they are not as good as MH bulbs for green vegetation. I do not use my MH light outside of winter as the AZ sun beats all lights, and of course its cost free.

[Neofolis]

I use 400w and 600w MH with reasonable results. There doesn't tend to be any leaf burn unless the plants are almost in contact with the lamps. Sun lovers will need to be in very close proximity to the lamps though, as the usable light is substantially reduced over very short distances.

[Kris]

Dear Merrill

thanks for the link,but my country voltage is 220-230volts is their any site that catar to global coustomers ?

thanks & love,

Kris

by the way iam trying to use new fonts & effect so folks don't get annoyed seeing new or strange sizes in my posts...

[Neofolis]

Kris for anything that doesn't have multi voltage compatible transformers, you can get drop down voltage adaptors. You can probably find something on eBay. If the lights use multi voltage transformers, you would only need an adaptor plug, which again are generally available on eBay. I assume there are sellers in India that offer appropriate adaptors/converters. If you do need a drop down voltage adaptor, be sure to get one that is suitable for the ampage of the lights.

[merrill]

Hi, Kris:

http://cgi.ebay.com/240-V-900-RED-LED-4-Gr...1QQcmdZViewItem

The above listing includes LED at 220 volts, the current is very small, and I'm sure that the necessary aggregation of red LED would still be a trivial wattage load. The available red LED are a difficult assortment to winnow thru!

Best Wishes, merrill

Edited June 8, 2008 by merrill

[Kris]

Dear Neo

thanks very much about the suggestions,i will try to get to your method...if iam unable to buy products that are not specified to my country's voltage..since most of the time my equipements are all handled by village guys who have no english knowledge...their is a risk that they might fiddle with the volt settings their-by damaging the lights totally.so i will keep this one as my last option but your suggestion & ideas are indeed valuable_thanks very much.

Dear Merrill

thanks for that intreasting link and if you come across any new sites,please keep updating us.since i can request my indian friends living & working in the U.S. Will buy and send it to me when they or their frinds are comming here ! Since i always take peoples ideas & suggestion before making any purschase..since i do not want to make a hasty descision...& repent later for it.

Thanks & Love,

Kris

[sonoranfans]

Here is a brief discussion of the different kind of lighting. MH lights are kind of intense for seedlings, not recommended.

http://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-...row-lights.html

and this one:

http://www.gardeners.com/Gardening%20Under...default,pg.html

Basically fluorescents are best for plants less than 2' tall, MH lights give the best result for fast vegetation growth(blue light), and sodium(red light bias) is best for flowers, fruits(or vegetables). If you must use MH on seedlings, the recommended distance is 3-4' away.

The second reference has a comment of concern regarding the use of sodium lights exclusively:

"High-pressure sodium bulbs are usually used to promote flowering and fruiting. Their yellow-orange hue makes plants think that fall is coming, which stimulates flower and fruit production. When used exclusively, high-pressure sodium lights produce leggy, weak-stemmed plants."

A "leggy weak stemmed palm" is probably not what you want.

Edited June 8, 2008 by sonoranfans

[Kris]

Dear SonoranFans

thanks for expressing your views and those links were very intreasting..

lots of love to you,

Kris

[Mark_NoVA]

Here is a good place to look:

http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index....at&catId=65

Hi, East:

Let's see if this will post:

http://www.ledgrowlights.com/sales_retail.htm#R180XB

This seemed the best deal a few months ago, but I'm going to look more. My impression is that red grolights are the best avenue to enhance blooming. If you find more watts for less $, I'd be very grateful if you shared it. There seems to be a great lack of info on the number of watts required, altho it certainly would be far less than the other possibilities.

Best Wishes, merrill

[Breadfruit Bill]

You can definitely grow those seedlings under artificial light... (take notice of the bad 2 the bone palm tree knobs on the cabinets!)

Give them the right amount of moisture... and heat

I would advise using as much light as you can afford (notice I said afford here ) I used 3 of these bulbs in this setup

Plenty of time and patience is required and then one day... BAM! PALMS TREES EVERYWHERE!

[Breadfruit Bill]

I've been known to grow things in controlled conditions once in a while... I can make 10 lb. tomatoes! (ok, well almost!)