Dypsis Decipiens

[TimHopper]

I started my Dypsis Decipiens almost seven years ago from seed. Here are a few photos from the last three years. Last year it split into two trees, and after the leaf boots shed to expose the separate trunks I removed the second formed tree. I have heard argument on both sides of removal of the offset tree, but I decided to remove mine and try to maintain it as a single. When I removed the gravel from around the base and heel of the double it revealed the offset emerging from directly underneath the original tree. The force of the growing offset appeared to be causing stress to the original tree by beginning to shear it from the wood heel. That may explain the slow decline of one side of a double D. Decipiens which I have heard reported several times. With a shaky scalpel, I removed the offset from my double. I was careful to stay in the soft part of the offset near the wood heel, but not into it. I left the heel excavated for about three weeks with just a small piece of shadecloth covering the exposed roots to prevent sunburn. The wound dried up nicely over three weeks and hardened off before I backfilled with my gravel. I used Daconil and copper fungicide alternated every 3-4 days until backfilling. It has been about eight weeks since the offset removal, and the original tree seems to have picked up speed by producing two new fronds. Also the diameter at ground level has about doubled in eight weeks. After cutting the offset, I thought that maybe I had really messed up. I think air drying the areas helped it to recover without rotting. I hope that it does not form rot at a later date from the wound so near the heel. Time will tell. Tim

[TimHopper]

Ran out of space, here is a photo from today. Tim

[paulgila]

it looks great! you shoulda been a surgeon(if yer not one already)

[PalmdudeinSF]

I've read this is a tough plant.  Would anyone care to comment on it's ability to survive on San Francisco Bay.  We live on the east side of the bay, warmer area, low temperatures go as low as 40F.  We're a stones throw from the water.

[redant]

Nice palm. As always, I can't beleive that St. Augustine.

[spockvr6]

Tim-

I have a small one of these palms which I picked up from Ray Hernandez a month or so ago.  I know little about them, nor their requirements.  Mines in a 7 gallon pot...did you plant yours out at that size?

I think mine is also starting to do the double trunk gig as there are two separate spears coming out (very sloooooowly it seems).

From the gravel around yours, I assume these palms want drainage.  How far down does the gravel go?

And how much sun is yours in?

[Trópico]

Niiiice!

Keep it up, and wish you good luck. Were you able to save the removed sucker?

[cfkingfish]

Tim-

That is an impressive plant. I have some that are two years from seed, and am hoping they make it - this is a tricky palm to grow for most places in Florida. In fact, I have never seen a bigger one in person in the state.

[elHoagie]

Great pictures!  Do you have any photos of the surgery?

[DoomsDave]

Tim!

Nice to see you again!  And your fabulous dyppy decip!

Personally, I would not have done any amputations of suckers, but that's up to you.  (I"ve left my double a double and so far it's thriving.)

In any case, keep us posted as to progress.

dave

[DoomsDave]

(PalmdudeinSF @ Sep. 08 2006,12:38)

QUOTE

I've read this is a tough plant.  Would anyone care to comment on it's ability to survive on San Francisco Bay.  We live on the east side of the bay, warmer area, low temperatures go as low as 40F.  We're a stones throw from the water.

I'd certainly try one in full sun, especially in the fog belt.

I've got two nice ones: one in partial shade behind some taller plants, and another in full sun.  Both are doing well, though slow.

Let us know what you do . . . .

And post a picture!

dave

[MattyB]

I too plan on removing any suckers whenever that happens.  Thanks for the info.

[paulgila]

i'm gonna leave mine the way nature intended!

no "amputees" in my garden! :laugh:

[Jim in Los Altos]

Last Spring I removed the succer on my eight year old D. decipiens as far down into the earth as I was able to saw and I felt terribly guilty afterwards and wished that I had left her be. To my suprise, the sucker grew back at lightening speed putting out two new fronds in two and a half months. I'm letting nature take it's course this time since this palm seems to really want a twin sister albeit a bit smaller one.

[TimHopper]

I started all of mine from seed almost seven years ago. I ended up with about 250 healthy seedlings with plans to grow them off. I have a fairly green thumb, but the Decipiens gave me a lot of trouble. Over about two years I lost a lot of them to rot and mealy bug attacks to the heel, and the number dwindled to just over a hundred. Then I started excavating the top third of the containers by spraying them out with a water hose, and backfilling with small smooth pea stones. I stopped loosing them to rot when the heel was no longer in soil. The first 2-3 inches of new roots grow through the small stone and then into soil. Prior to the gravel, the oldest leaf boot would rot below the soil level and the frond would die prematurely, and introduce rot to the next leaf boot. The one in the photos above was ground planted from one of my seven gallons three years ago. While planting it I used the hose sprayer to excavate the soil even lower (about 6 inches) and backfilled with more gravel. It responds well to a lot of fertilizer, and I water it as much as I do anything else. It is in partial shade throughout the day, and I like how that stretches the fronds some. I wish I would have taken photos of the sucker removal but I didn't. It was one of those days that I had sweat and mud dripping off my elbows, and when I asked my wife to hand me her new sony digital she just smiled and shook her head. I will go out when it gets light and pull the gravel away from the heel for a photo to post in this reply. ............................................Ok, went out and dug away the gravel and everything still looks fine. The wood portion of the heel underneath the original tree is still hard and rot-free where I cut away the sucker. Just trying to follow the same grow plan as Pauleen Sullivans most amazing Dypsis Decipiens. Some large new roots starting to emerge on either side. Going to give it another shot of fungicide and pour the gravel back into place.  Tim                                                              

Here is an excavated view from about 18 months ago before new gravel.

[BS Man about Palms]

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 08 2006,09:53)

QUOTE

Tim-

I have a small one of these palms which I picked up from Ray Hernandez a month or so ago.  I know little about them, nor their requirements.  Mines in a 7 gallon pot...did you plant yours out at that size?

I think mine is also starting to do the double trunk gig as there are two separate spears coming out (very sloooooowly it seems).

From the gravel around yours, I assume these palms want drainage.  How far down does the gravel go?

And how much sun is yours in?

There are a fair amount of them growing here in CA. (including the infamous "Pauleens" in Ventura, pic included)

Anyway, Tim touched on what we have been discovering around these parts...These apear to be a tillering palm that pulls itself down for awhile. The "success stories have been planted "high" or great drainage, or both.  I killed a decent sized one a year ago due to rot, I just watered with abandon, never paying attention to the fact that I was submerging the growing point with almost every watering.   I now water carefully and less often and have done fine..

Also, they love sun and seem to have a large variabilty in the plants...bluer leaves, greener leaves, stiffer leaves, softer leaves, almost "bifid-upright" leaves to fully pinnate -horizontal leaves (on the same aged batch)..

[TimHopper]

Here is another shot of Pauleens

[elHoagie]

Tim,

Looks good, thanks for posting the photos.  I'm amazed how small the heel is on yours.  My largest one has just finished spliting in two, and it's maybe 50cm tall.  From the tip of the heel to the crownshaft is probably 25cm (10in).  It looks like yours is probably half that size, even though your plant is much larger than mine...

Jack

[BS Man about Palms]

(elHoagie @ Sep. 09 2006,19:11)

QUOTE

Tim,

Looks good, thanks for posting the photos.  I'm amazed how small the heel is on yours.  My largest one has just finished spliting in two, and it's maybe 50cm tall.  From the tip of the heel to the crownshaft is probably 25cm (10in).  It looks like yours is probably half that size, even though your plant is much larger than mine...

Jack

Jack- thats another part of the variabilty issue I mentioned earlier.  I've been seeing a few lately with more vertical growth and less horizontal/girth growth...

I have several, I'm actually looking for diffferent variability ones. I'm curious what they'll retain.  

That I can remember, So far I have:

- med sized "avg" 15 gal with stiffer med green, tinge of blue, leaves

- deep green, fine thin pinnate leaves happy 5 gal plus size, a little on the "upright" trunk growth side, but leaves very horizontal

- lime to med green, mostly bifid leaves, very upright growth, avg 5 gal size

- light green firm leaves that the spear comes out almost a deep maroon and the the petole retains the dark color for a while, while the leaves are a much lighter color . I like the look of this one the most . avg 5 gal size

- an upright med green (but in a greenhouse till recently) with red to maroon petiole with cream colored "specks" (almost like freckles)  with mostly bi-fid leaves.. small 5 gal size.

Thats all I can remember without going out to look at them...or others

Bill

[malcthomas]

Tim....

I must comment again how dainty looking your plant is...

regards......Malcolm

[TimHopper]

Malcolm, I think that the half shade situation contributes to the stretched softer appearance. I have another from the same seed batch in full sun that has the same size heel with half the overall height and width. The full sun D.Dec. has tougher lighter green fronds and leaflets. Also, it has not yet begun to split into twins. Tim

[malcthomas]

Tim...

My one is a very robust plant with heavy leaves and thick petioles about 7 feet long still growing out from ground with not a hint of a stem like your one...

cheers...

[Jim in Los Altos]

God, I wanted to scream today when I went to one of my client's garden's for a quarterly checkup and the @#!!%@ gardener added a new sprinkler to the system two months ago just five inches from the heal of a beautiful D. desipiens that I carefully planted last year from a 25 gal. container. The new spears on both stems were gone and the center of each palm had lots of standing water them and the soil was swampy. This poor palm never had a chance to flourish. I'll be replacing it with a common Butia most likely. That @#@! gardener is supposed to keep away from any of the palms in that yard!

[BS Man about Palms]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Sep. 11 2006,23:51)

QUOTE

God, I wanted to scream today when I went to one of my client's garden's for a quarterly checkup and the @#!!%@ gardener added a new sprinkler to the system two months ago just five inches from the heal of a beautiful D. desipiens that I carefully planted last year from a 25 gal. container. The new spears on both stems were gone and the center of each palm had lots of standing water them and the soil was swampy. This poor palm never had a chance to flourish. I'll be replacing it with a common Butia most likely. That @#@! gardener is supposed to keep away from any of the palms in that yard!

Jim, shouldn't that be the "Murderer" not the "Gardener"...

I have contemplated starting a "personal care" Palm service for folks with some of those jewels that would like them "looked after" not murdered......

  (I have to stop killing my own first...but I'm on a steep learning curve!)

Bill

[Jim in Los Altos]

Bill,

I make a point of using at least one unusual palm species in many of my landscape designs and to teach the client about it (them). Last month I planted a hybrid Jubaea X Butia in a centerpiece location on a new landscape project, parajubaea sunkas in another and a Butia x parajubaea in another. That Dypsis decipiens that was so wastefully destroyed by the landscape maintenance person was so gorgeous that I was actually envyous of it. Too bad it couldn't be saved.

[TimHopper]

It is a shame to loose a tree that took so many years to grow to fifteen minutes of anothers wrecklessness. I planted my largest on the dryest side of my yard and I water it a lot, but not right on the crown. Tim

[TimHopper]

It is hard to capture the colors with a photo. Red, yellow, orange, and purple on this opening frond. Gotta love spring time. Tim

[rubyz]

Nice looking palm, Tim. ::

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

(BS, Man about Palms @ Sep. 10 2006,01:43)

QUOTE

(elHoagie @ Sep. 09 2006,19:11)

QUOTE

Tim,

Looks good, thanks for posting the photos.  I'm amazed how small the heel is on yours.  My largest one has just finished spliting in two, and it's maybe 50cm tall.  From the tip of the heel to the crownshaft is probably 25cm (10in).  It looks like yours is probably half that size, even though your plant is much larger than mine...

Jack

Jack- thats another part of the variabilty issue I mentioned earlier.  I've been seeing a few lately with more vertical growth and less horizontal/girth growth...

I have several, I'm actually looking for diffferent variability ones. I'm curious what they'll retain.  

That I can remember, So far I have:

- med sized "avg" 15 gal with stiffer med green, tinge of blue, leaves

- deep green, fine thin pinnate leaves happy 5 gal plus size, a little on the "upright" trunk growth side, but leaves very horizontal

- lime to med green, mostly bifid leaves, very upright growth, avg 5 gal size

- light green firm leaves that the spear comes out almost a deep maroon and the the petole retains the dark color for a while, while the leaves are a much lighter color . I like the look of this one the most . avg 5 gal size

- an upright med green (but in a greenhouse till recently) with red to maroon petiole with cream colored "specks" (almost like freckles)  with mostly bi-fid leaves.. small 5 gal size.

Thats all I can remember without going out to look at them...or others

Bill

Bill...I have lots of the 'brown' variety, if you need to add some to your collection  ::

[The Germinator]

I have about a dozen left from Johnny's sale last Year and they are all different I just noticed I have some of the ones with the Ox Blood petioles and spears pushing out. I also Ive bi-feds and some that have been pinnate for a while now. They are all different

We should do a thread just on gardners screw up's, Mine just sprayed my 2 Strap Silver Nanorrhops with weed killer. Now its dying.

[TimHopper]

Here is where I cut to remove the twin. Just refreshing this post in response to a question by Rafael. Wait until the last single leaf boot sheds to reveal both individual trunks, then cut off the newer twin careful not to damage newly emerging roots or the wooden heel. Keep the cut as dry as possible until it hardens off. Some like doubles, but I wanted mine single.

Edited August 27, 2010 by TimHopper

[TimHopper]

Photos taken today August 27th 2010 It has trunked out of the ground, and I think I have a survivor now. They are exceptionally hard to grow here in Florida, but this one has been a quest. Eleven years old now from seeds purchased from RarePalmseeds.com It is probably my favorite palm.

Edited August 27, 2010 by TimHopper

[Jim in Los Altos]

Tim, it looks fantastic. I can't believe that you started this thread four years ago. My double D. decipiens has doubled in size since then but still no exposed trunk. Yours is beautiful!

[BS Man about Palms]

Nice bump Tim. I must say with what has been learned here since this started is that Malcolm was on to something. I'm pretty convinced this is a Dypsis ambositrae. Just growing a little different in Florida versus So Cal.

Or at a minimum, a hybrid of the two.

Beautiful!

[MattyB]

Awesome thread!

[Rafael]

Thanks Tim!

[BS Man about Palms]

Sure looks really close to the first palm in this thread at Nicks place.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24908&st=0&p=414269&fromsearch=1&#entry414269

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Sure looks really close to the first palm in this thread at Nicks place.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24908&st=0&p=414269&fromsearch=1&#entry414269

Hmmm? Neither really look like my Dypsis Decipiens.

Mine is much more stocky.

Jeff

[TimHopper]

Mine does look different, but I think that it is from growing conditions. It has been in heavy shade for five years. The others from the same seed batch were sun grown and much more compact and stout. I have just cut down several Kings, and trimmed limbs to let more sun in on the one pictured above. I will get more photos next year to see how much difference there is between shade and sun grown. Mine only grows about 4-5 fronds per year. Sure takes patience to grow these. Kind of like growing Pseudophoenix Sp. Here is a link to my Dypsis Decipiens Album all of the same tree over the last 6 years. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v246/TimHopper/Temp%20Album/Dypsis%20Decipiens/

Edited August 27, 2010 by TimHopper

[Tulio]

Tim, are they growing in gravel?