Shadehouse Vs Greenhouse?

[Palm Guy]

Hi all,

After seeing some of my tender seedlings flap around in the wind this winter and being that my porch is looking quite... well...palm infested, I have decided to build a palm shelter.

I've been debating this for a while and I can't seem to decide on building my own shadehouse or purchasing this greenhouse. http://www.betterrenovations.com/Bermuda....Id=8527

From what I've seen, most people on the forum tend to go for a shade house and I think that I'm leaning towards the same.  

I think that a greenhouse may? be too hot in the summer and many of the shade loving palms may? bleach. The greenhouse does provide more security from thieves and shelter from the strong winds. The shadehouse will be slightly cheaper and I do get more flexibility with regards to shape and size but it is alot less sturdy/permanent and it does require more work which could be devoted to palm growing!

The Northwestern location where the structure is to be situated gets about 5-6 hours of full sun in the summer and about 4 hours in the winter.

What do you suggest?

Cheers,

[Cycadcenter]

Shadehouse..........without a doubt.

With a greenhouse you would have a constant problem trying to keep it cool and keeping disease out, it would require contant use of fans, vents and watering systems.

I would go for a shadehouse with 30-40% shadecloth so things don't burn much when you take them outside.  In your climate all you need then is a watering system.  

Bruce

[Alicehunter2000]

Agreed, since you do not experience freezing temps there, you don't really need a greenhouse....Unless you are trying to grow more tropical type species that require a higher heat than your environment can produce.

[John in Andalucia]

If you already have adequate humidity, a shadehouse seems right. I have a polytunnel because I'm in an environment similar to SoCal in southern Spain. You can always erect wind breaks to diffuse any prevailing winds. On the point of temperatures, greenhouses don't offer resistance to the cold for too long after sunset, unless you've got the money for butane burners. They can be breeding grounds for diseases, but on the plus side, they can be tailor-made environments. A watering system requires maintenance and is beneficial for boosting humidity. My ideal setup would be a large shadehouse built over a small greenhouse for nurturing rainforest seedlings.

[Tyrone]

I have both. I use the shadehouse for my less tropical species, and the greenhouse for the more tropical stuff. I don't use extra heating. In Bermuda, the climate is pretty good for a shadehouse for almost anything except really tropical stuff like Cyrtostachys. They breathe better, and there is less to go wrong with a shadehouse. You can still put heatmats in there if you want too as well.

regards

Tyrone

[Wai`anae Steve]

I don't think anyone in Hawai`i would use a "green house", but there are shade houses all over the place.  You get a bit colder than we do, but I think shade is what you rellly want.

It will also be cheaper to replace when the next hurricane wipes it out.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Micheal, I just want to echo shadehouse on his thread....  Your temperatures and rainfall (or lack of) are condusive to that type of structure...  If you lived Kansas or Ohio like some of us palmfreaks, glasshouse all the way.

I use 60% shadecloth...  I think it's a good balance between enough sun for 1g and larger plants but it's a little too bright for small seedlings...  I have a separate "room" where I keep the tiniest seedlings that is sectioned off and protected with another measure of shadecloth.

When deciding what kind of shade fabric to use, do some research.  I made a mistake when choosing my fabric and was motivated by price.  My shadecloth is already showing wear and minor rips have become apparent.  Check into a product called aluminet.  I'd be interested to hear your feedback on it.  I am going to have to replace my shadecloth in a couple years and will definately purchase something that is of better quality...

In this older pic you can see my seedling "room"

[RadPalms]

I think your right about using a shade house instead of a greenhouse.  I have my seedlings in my greenhouse right now and with the heat that we are having right now 87f I am finding even with a exshaust fan going, 4 roof vents and an intake vent, not to mention the doors open the green house is at 97f to 100f......I have 40 percent shade cloth over the top of the green house and also just added 30 percent cloth on the inside roof trusses with not help on cutting the heat inside.......so it is time to add on to my shade house for my new babies.....here is a some pic's...click on the link then you can view as slide show or one at a time .....  null

[Palm Guy]

Hi all,

Thanks for your suggestions. I think its pretty unanimous. Shadehouse it is.

Bruce - Thanks. Having vents and waters systems is something I definitely don't want to get into.

David - I was trying to get a tad more heat with a greenhouse in the winter but not so much in the summer. Summertime is usually sufficient to grow ultra-tropicals.

John - I can see where your going with the dual shadehouse-greenhouse structures. Sounds like a good idea but perhaps its something that I could look into in the future as I don't have the cash to spare at the moment. Right now its one or the other.  

Your climate looks pretty good for growing many palm species. Which ones do you keep inside during winter and which ones do you leave out?

Tyrone- I totally agree with you on the added heat. I see all the highs that SoFL gets on a daily basis and I do get a bit jealous. I figure that I could grow some of the more cool tolerant palms and the ultra-tropicals will just have to grow slow. Believe it or not, I've lost about 6 or 7 of my Cyrtostachys this winter and it wasn't due to lack of heat. It was due to lack of air circulation indoors. The one seedling I left outside on my porch is doing much much better and growing faster than the ones I left inside. Same thing happened to my Licuala Mapus and Pholidostachys Pulchra. So I believe the shadehouse would be better since it has added air circulation.

Steve- Thanks for the input. The only greenhouse I've seen on the island is at one of our local nurseries and even then they have to keep the doors during the Summer days and in winter. Good point about the hurricanes. We don;t usually get hit as hard or as often as the US or Caribbean but with my luck, as soon as I buy an expensive greenhouse we'll get hit by a category 5 hurricane.Whats the coldest you ever experienced in Hawaii?

Bill - Excellent photo and you have a great set up there. I've been looking up aluminet on the internet the past few days and it does look like a  promising product. Trouble is I don't think I could get it on the island. Do you know of any online stores that would ship it internationally and is the price much more than a standard shadecloth?

If I'm able to get it on the island I will definitely give you my feedback on it. I like the fact that it retains heat in winter, that would be useful. I also like to save money and I often cut corner but I'll try to head your warning and fork over a few more dollars for quality.

How many seedlings are you on or is it too much to count?

Curt - 87 in Cali at the moment? Wow, is that normal or is global warming working to your advantage? Excellent pics! Did you build it yourself?

Thanks again guys for all your input.

Cheers,

Mike F

[Wai`anae Steve]

Mike wrote: Steve- Thanks for the input. The only greenhouse I've seen on the island is at one of our local nurseries and even then they have to keep the doors during the Summer days and in winter. Good point about the hurricanes. We don;t usually get hit as hard or as often as the US or Caribbean but with my luck, as soon as I buy an expensive greenhouse we'll get hit by a category 5 hurricane.Whats the coldest you ever experienced in Hawaii?

I don't think I've seen it below 60 here at 300' elevation on the West side.  In the "winter ) it often gets down to about 64 in the very early morning.

[Palm Guy]

  Quote

I don't think I've seen it below 60 here at 300' elevation on the West side.  In the "winter ) it often gets down to about 64 in the very early morning.

Nice! I'm officially jealous. Most winters over here don't see a temperature reading below 50F but 55F is pretty common whenever a cold front comes in. If not, lows of about 60-62 are the norm. Its the low highs of 68-73F that make palm growing a little difficult for me. Hence, why I thought a greenhouse would help.

[RadPalms]

Mike.....The greenhouse was a harbor freight special for 650.00 but had to modify it for our winds,  added alot of bracing and roof truss system.  Once that is done they are as good as the big buck greenhouses.  It was a pain to put togather but worth it.......Have fun building your shade house...

Curt

[Wai`anae Steve]

(Palm Guy @ Apr. 14 2008,22:55)

QUOTE

  Quote

I don't think I've seen it below 60 here at 300' elevation on the West side.  In the "winter ) it often gets down to about 64 in the very early morning.

Nice! I'm officially jealous. Most winters over here don't see a temperature reading below 50F but 55F is pretty common whenever a cold front comes in. If not, lows of about 60-62 are the norm. Its the low highs of 68-73F that make palm growing a little difficult for me. Hence, why I thought a greenhouse would help.

Gee Mike, I'm breaking out the long sleeve shirts at say 75  

44 years in Hawai`i has thinned my blood.  

[John in Andalucia]

(Palm Guy @ Apr. 15 2008,04:23)

QUOTE

Your climate looks pretty good for growing many palm species. Which ones do you keep inside during winter and which ones do you leave out?

I'm totally new to palms. I bought my polytunnel greenhouse as a kit last October, and my seedlings are from Hawaii just recently. I've about 400 (in a 30' x 8' corridor!) but calling a temporary halt on the tender stuff to concentrate on desert palms from seed, and in large numbers, so they can be grown outside. It's dry here; we have the equivalent of Santa Anna winds towards the start of summer. I need to find out which of my tropical palms that need more water and shade than most, can make it here outdoors. Some love the greenhouse - Marojejya darianii, Ponapea ledermannianum, Pinanga coronata, Hydriastele costata, Cyrtostachys renda, Carpoxylon etc. Other however, are touchy and prone to damping off. I've lost a dozen Caryota zebrina seedlings despite them being well out of the soil, yet I've got Caryota ophiopellis next to them that are fine. My Asterogyne martiana look dreadful; tiny things with leaves that have died back up to 50% yet they have nice green stems. I've got some beautiful Calyptrogyne ghiesbreghtiana seedlings that hardly need any water at all despite them being the most leafy seedlings in the greenhouse! I've 40 to 50 species in all. Thanks for posing that question, Mike. We don't get freezes here. It may drop to 4 or 5 Celsius in winter in the early hours of the morning, so I should hopefully be able to keep a diversity of palms if I narrow them down right.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

(Palm Guy @ Apr. 14 2008,22:23)

QUOTE

How many seedlings are you on or is it too much to count?

2358...  

[DoomsDave]

A lot depends on what you want to do.

If you want to raise plants you'd ordinarily raise anyway, and just want a little nursery, the shadehouse is best.

However, if you want to push the envelope on some of the tropicals and things that might not grow there, a greenhouse could well be worth the trouble.  I'm sure Matty and elHoagie (greehousiers, both) will have a word or two on that subject.

dave