South Florida Fertilizer

[palmislandRandy]

My palms don't look quite as green as others I've seen. What are you South Floridians feeding your brood this spring? Thanks!

[redant]

lesco now makes a perfect palm food, 8-2-12 with lots of micros. You will not find it at the big box stores, you need to find a lesco outet by you. Lesco has a homepage where you can serch for outlets. The stuff is not cheap, around $23 a bag, discounts on a ton or more.

http://www.lesco.com/

[gsn]

redant,

I have searched the lesco site and the closest I can find is 8-2-10?

Am I missing it?

[palmislandRandy]

Type 8-2-12 in search! Thanks Redant. Any other suggertions? ???

[Dave-Vero]

http://www.suregro.net/  

Nurserymen's Sure-Gro from Vero Beach

[palmislandRandy]

Nurserymen's is 8-2-12, same as Lesco, Thanks

[redant]

(palmisland @ Apr. 07 2008,11:07)

QUOTE

Type 8-2-12 in search! Thanks Redant. Any other suggertions? ???

Call your local lesco outlet, they do make an palm 8-2-12. They don't seem to list on the site.

I bought a pallet of the Nurserymen's and was  not happy. Many of the bags seem fine while many seem to mostly consist of a sand like material. I will not buy again.

[Jeff Searle]

I use AFEC Palm Fertilizer and their out of Miami. I think all these brands are equally good. The important thing is........feed our palms throughout the year.

[spockvr6]

(Jeff Searle @ Apr. 07 2008,13:20)

QUOTE

I use AFEC Palm Fertilizer and their out of Miami. I think all these brands are equally good. The important thing is........feed our palms throughout the year.

Yes....I think all this stuff is more or less the same.  Ive used everything from the cheapest junk at Home Depot to the Univ of FL recommended stuff and (especially in the sandy soil like I have), its all going to run through fast anyway.  In my less than scientific "tests", I cant tell a difference in palm growth rate or appearance among any of the fertilizers.  

So, as Jeff noted.....I think the best thing to do is just make sure that the palms are fed frequently.  I tend to like to do many smaller feedings throughout the year rather than 3-4 big ones.

[JungleGina]

Just answered this one on the worm poo post. I use it on everything due to a fertilizer ban in Sarasota County.

[Tim McKernan]

Harrell's (used to be Leonard's) makes a great palm special. Walter Hoffman is a great rep and very knowledgable about individual requirements. He has personally delivered very small orders to many of my friends and will take a few minutes to look around and see what you might need. I like AFEC too but with Harrells I just pick up the phone and it comes the same day. If you want to check pricing call Walter at 305 458-4257.

[gsn]

(Tim McKernan @ Apr. 07 2008,17:16)

QUOTE

Harrell's (used to be Leonard's) makes a great palm special.

Tim,

Is this also called Leonards Ornamental (11-4-11) out of Lakeland, FL?

I have been using this for the past 3 years ,with great results!

[palmislandRandy]

Thanks guys! (How'd I miss the worm poo post? )

[Jeff Wilson]

I use Nurserymen's Suregro as well. I'm not sure what the new ratio is. Larry Walker, the president of Suregro, explained that they were going to lower the phosphorus number from 4 to 2 when I last spoke to him...as phosphorus is a major polluter to the ground water and not only that, palms don't even need that much phosphorus. 2% is more than enough for any palm. My own thinking is not to use a fertilizer with a high nitrogen content....say the Lesco 13-3-13 at Home Depot....it has 13% Nitrogen and 13% Potassium....well the 13% Nitrogen is too much for some of the more picky species....needs to be about 8% instead. Ratio formulated by the University of Florida calls for a 2:1:3 ratio for palms: N:P:K, and this was confirmed by independent nurseries as well as the best ratio for south Florida. Appears they have cut the phosphorus from 4% to 2% because the 4% was already overkill. With some palms such as Copernicias, the nitrogen will force the palm to push too much new top growth due to the high Nitrogen content and with an equally high Potassium content, but then a few months later you'll notice that you have a potassium deficiency with the same palms...either yellowish or orange on the outer segments of the leaflets. So instead of Lesco's 13-3-13, I started using Suregro which I think was 8-4-12......now apparently 8-2-12. I've used Lesco and Suregro.....Lesco might be okay for some palms, but unless it's slow / controlled release and lasts a month to 3 months, in the summer, within a few days of constant, drenching downpoors it rinses right through the soil, and then you have to reapply.....13-3-13 from Home Depot will work for our common weed: the Queen -> Syagrus romanzoffiana because 1) you'd be hard pressed to overfertilize the S. romanzoffiana....it's just a heavy feeder in south Florida. Either looks dark green and beautiful with some regular fertilizer, even the really cheap stuff will suffice, or looks like it's half dead or on its way out without any fertilizer. All of the other Syagrus sp. are more beautiful, less maintenance, and yet the S. romanzoffiana is still the most common.....

Another thing with the 8-2-12 or 8-4-12 fertilizers available is that you can use that fertilizer on your smaller in ground palms without having to worry about burning any of them up....aka: salt burn. Salt burn is always from the nitrogen content being too high....that and the person fertilizing the palm used way tooooo much. It's just much safer to use an 8-2-12 fertilizer on a knee high palm without any unwanted salt burn. If you used a 13-3-13 Lesco fertilizer on small palm, you run the risk of burning the entire palm up.

[Tim McKernan]

(gsn @ Apr. 07 2008,17:40)

QUOTE

(Tim McKernan @ Apr. 07 2008,17:16)

QUOTE

Harrell's (used to be Leonard's) makes a great palm special.

Tim,

Is this also called Leonards Ornamental (11-4-11) out of Lakeland, FL?

I have been using this for the past 3 years ,with great results!

Yes, it's the same Leonards. I'm not sure of the mix though. I use a couple of different mixes for container and field stuff.

[Guest]

I've been using Nurserymen's sure grow but a wacky 12-4-14 combo. I will switch to 8-2-12. How should I go about fertilizing a section like this below ? Do I really worry about 1/2 cup per inch of diameter of trunk or can I just broadcast the area ?

[Okie]

FYI

Leonard's 11-4-13 is now $21.00/bag  up from $16.xx last year.

[spockvr6]

Question----

How do we know the right ratios of N-P-K and minors when we dont know whats in the soil already!?!?!  Ive always wondered about this.

[gsn]

(Okie @ Apr. 08 2008,21:23)

QUOTE

FYI

Leonard's 11-4-13 is now $21.00/bag  up from $16.xx last year.

Okie,

Just curious where are you buying it? The place I get it was $25.00 originaly,but has gone to $30.00 a bag.

  Quote

Question----

How do we know the right ratios of N-P-K and minors when we dont know whats in the soil already!?!?!  Ive always wondered about this.

Larry,

Probably safe to assume NOTHING is in the soil on fairly new developed lots. I know any place I dig that hasn't been dug previously there is nothing but fill sand/clay. The only place you see even topsoil,is the layer from the sod,maybe 2 inches down ,if that!

As far as native earth on peoples lots that don't have fill soil built up for the foundation,it is an interesting question.

But  unfortunately I don't need the answer ,my whole lot is completely sterile ,except where I have planted, mulched, and amended!

[spockvr6]

(gsn @ Apr. 08 2008,23:08)

QUOTE

Larry,

Probably safe to assume NOTHING is in the soil on fairly new developed lots. I know any place I dig that hasn't been dug previously there is nothing but fill sand/clay. The only place you see even topsoil,is the layer from the sod,maybe 2 inches down ,if that!

As far as native earth on peoples lots that don't have fill soil built up for the foundation,it is an interesting question.

But  unfortunately I don't need the answer ,my whole lot is completely sterile ,except where I have planted, mulched, and amended!

So......why do palms/plants grow in this "soil" if there is no N-P-K there?!?!?!?!  

I know that many folks dont fertilize at all and things still grow in the ground!

Either N-P-K isnt all that important, or some is already there!

[Neofolis]

I assume trace amounts of nutrients in rainwater are sufficient to allow for growth at a reduced rate.  Obviously the presence of lightning would also increase N levels in the rainwater.  Ground water generally has higher nutrient content, although there is no guarantee of what is in it or whether or not the elements are beneficial without digging down and testing it.  Even then it is likely to vary over time.

[gsn]

(spockvr6 @ Apr. 09 2008,04:58)

QUOTE

So......why do palms/plants grow in this "soil" if there is no N-P-K there?!?!?!?!  

I know that many folks dont fertilize at all and things still grow in the ground!

Either N-P-K isnt all that important, or some is already there!

Larry,

I was being somewhat facetious with my comment,about my sterile soil. I aggreed that you posed an interesting question,just one I don't have to worry about!

I do have places where weeds don't even like to grow,until it has been amended and mulched!

I am sure there are some nutrients even in the sterile fill sand/clay that they brought in for the foundations of the houses here,but I would have to say very little.

I think what is in the soil (nutrient wise) would have a minimal effect on the ratio one would put down with fertilizer. After all as you said with no fertilizer plants grow,so any additional N-K P- with minors can only help,especially here in out sandy Florida soils.

I'm sure you can create an imbalance with too much nitrogen ,or to much phosphorous,or potasium,but  a regimental use of a fairly decent ratio mix on most palms/plants will work. As you have proved using the el cheapo fertilizer for several years in your lush garden. I think the plants are much less worried about a balanced diet in general ,(with some  exceptions)than we are about giving it to them!  ::

My less than scientific opinion. :cool:

[_Keith]

I made a post on this palm fertilizer ( https://www.lutzcorp.com/palmtrees/ ) not too long ago.  Pretty much, all of the reponse I got was positive.

[palmmermaid]

I use Nurseryman's Sure-Gro and horse manure.  I am not religious but try to apply at least 3 times a year.  After doing some reading and studying, I think I will start using more acid fertilizer on my palms that grow in humusy conditions in nature.  Since that usually means more acidic soil, I may try adding some acid fertilizer to my alkaline soil.  Even though there is a foot of topsoil over the sand, the nutrients just leech right out, especially with heavy rains.  I've been doing that to my Cyrtostachys renda and it seems to be happy.  I read where it grows in almost pure peat sometimes in nature.

[palmislandRandy]

Like Scott, I've got about  4-6 inches of topsoil/sand, then some kinda mucky/rocky crap fill that holds water better than my last girlfriend!

[Guest]

(Jeff Wilson @ Apr. 08 2008,16:52)

QUOTE

Another thing with the 8-2-12 or 8-4-12 fertilizers available is that you can use that fertilizer on your smaller in ground palms without having to worry about burning any of them up....aka: salt burn. Salt burn is always from the nitrogen content being too high....that and the person fertilizing the palm used way tooooo much. It's just much safer to use an 8-2-12 fertilizer on a knee high palm without any unwanted salt burn. If you used a 13-3-13 Lesco fertilizer on small palm, you run the risk of burning the entire palm up.

What's your thoughts on 12-4-12 ? I stopped by Nurserymen's Sure-Grow today and I saw on their board that they recomended 8-2-12 (except for people on the barrier island (like me). I should use 12-4-12 becuase of the higher soil PH over here.

Is there more of a chance of me burning out knee high palms with this stuff ?

[Guest]

Why does it matter if I water right after I put down fertilizer ? Why cant I just wait for the next time the irrigation system comes on ? Curious why the directions always say to water. ???

[Jeff Wilson]

Floster939: Not sure if living on the Barrier Island makes that much of a difference regarding using 12-4-12 or 8-2-12. Your sandy soil is alkaline. So is mine. The only reason I wouldn't use the 12-4-12 is that you're likely to burn up palms that are 6' (2 meters) or under even with recommended dosages, and promptly watering afterwards. You have to water right after so that there's not salt build up on the top, feeder roots, which will burn the feeder roots. It's just a general rule to water right after applying to mitigate any salt burn, and also to begin adequately feeding the tree immediately...the particles in the fertilizer become activated with water.

[Crownshafter]

  Jeff Wilson said:

Floster939: Not sure if living on the Barrier Island makes that much of a difference regarding using 12-4-12 or 8-2-12. Your sandy soil is alkaline. So is mine. The only reason I wouldn't use the 12-4-12 is that you're likely to burn up palms that are 6' (2 meters) or under even with recommended dosages, and promptly watering afterwards. You have to water right after so that there's not salt build up on the top, feeder roots, which will burn the feeder roots. It's just a general rule to water right after applying to mitigate any salt burn, and also to begin adequately feeding the tree immediately...the particles in the fertilizer become activated with water.

Thanks. Can a palm that's been burned out recover or does it just die ?

[_Keith]

  Crownshafter said:

  Jeff Wilson said:

Floster939: Not sure if living on the Barrier Island makes that much of a difference regarding using 12-4-12 or 8-2-12. Your sandy soil is alkaline. So is mine. The only reason I wouldn't use the 12-4-12 is that you're likely to burn up palms that are 6' (2 meters) or under even with recommended dosages, and promptly watering afterwards. You have to water right after so that there's not salt build up on the top, feeder roots, which will burn the feeder roots. It's just a general rule to water right after applying to mitigate any salt burn, and also to begin adequately feeding the tree immediately...the particles in the fertilizer become activated with water.

Thanks. Can a palm that's been burned out recover or does it just die ?

I burned a couple of plants, one of them a palm, this spring. I have been socking all of the water to them I can without drowning them. They are coming back.

[Moose]

Used AFEC for 20+ years. Then I went to Harrell's because of better customer service. After so many years of heavy mulching and palm establishment, I add 4-6 inches of mulch every year. No supplemental mineral salts needed. The living soil is doing it's job.

[ChristianStAug]

What are the thoughts on Sunniland Palm 6-1-8 available from Lowes, Ace and others? I used ten 40 lb bags over last growing season. I have never burned anything and I apply liberally. It used to be just under $20 a bag so I felt like that was a bargain compared with the $45-55 lb 50 lb bags I have seen (like the Lesco product mentioned here years ago). I am sure like anything the qualities vary... 

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

@ChristianStAugThe ratio is fine but remember that a 6-1-8 is half the ratio of 12-2-16. The general recommendation for Florida soils is 8-2-12, which is about 50% more than 6-1-8. So you would need to apply about 50% more product just to get the same dose. Also, more expensive fertilizers  (like Lesco) typically have some slow release component which will allow for less frequent applications. And you would have to compare the micros as well. If Sunniland is low on something you need like Mg or Mn, you will need to add that separately. It is cheaper but it’s hard to say if it truly is a bargain.