Dick Douglas Butia x Jubaea

[Alberto]

Dick Douglas palm is B x J that is self sterile but it cross with other butiinae very easily. I have 3 (BxJ)x B growing here and all 3 are different.

 This is the north californian mother palm:

[Alberto]

This is my best grown offspring of that palm.

It is of a dull green collor,flatter leaves (´´open V´´)

[Alberto]

Trunk detail

[Alberto]

Flatter leaflets-´´open V´´

[Alberto]

Flatter leaflets-´´open V´´

[freakypalmguy]

That's a beaut Alberto, how old do you estimate yours is?

Matt

[freakypalmguy]

It looks a lot like Steve from Socal's. I bet they are from the same batch of seeds.

Matt

[Alberto]

The other palm is 2/3 the size of the first. It is of a grey blue collor. The fronds are less flatter (V shape)

And the smallest of the three was planted at a place with very poor soil so it was not growing very well and so I transplanted it to a better spot. This is the greeniest of the three. It was the most Jubaea alike seedling with stiffer leaflets and also less spines and more fiber on the petioles

********* It´s very difficult to upload pics today. I don´t know why? Only one in every 5-10 shots were uploaded with succes. I´ll try again tomorrow..... **************

[Alberto]

(freakypalmguy @ Mar. 24 2008,20:13)

QUOTE

That's a beaut Alberto, how old do you estimate yours is?

Matt

Here is a pic of my Jubaeas and (BxJ)x B when they were 7 months old. Uploaded at  webshots on 27 november 2003. So they are +- 4 years and 11 months now...

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/...047705136YTaZmh

[freakypalmguy]

(Alberto @ Mar. 24 2008,20:43)

QUOTE

(freakypalmguy @ Mar. 24 2008,20:13)

QUOTE

That's a beaut Alberto, how old do you estimate yours is?

Matt

Here is a pic of my Jubaeas and (BxJ)x B when they were 7 months old. Uploaded at  webshots on 27 november 2003. So they are +- 4 years and 11 months now...

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/...047705136YTaZmh

That is some awesome growth Alberto. Thank you for the update.

Matt

[Kris]

Dear Alberto  

thanks for the stills & links.and the first still is mouth watering...since iam a fan of the heavy trunking species...a butia in this form is okay for me !  

thanks & love,

Kris  

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto,

As Matt suggests, I think the palm that Steve in S. Calif. has is from the same seed batch that came from my Butia X Jubaea and the ones that you have. I also have one from that seed batch, but mine has grown very slowly and is only 1/3 the size of your largest one. They all seem to have very arching fronds, but mine is more green than gray. As has been mentioned earlier, the seeds set on the mother tree were a "natural" set and not hand pollinated. We can't be 100% sure, but now we believe it was pollinated by two Butias that grow in close proximity to the mother tree.

I only have the one plant from that batch, so I have no way to compare the veariations, but it would appear from your pictures and comments there was quite a bit of veariation, in color, growth, etc. It will be interesting to see how these hybrids develop as they grow older. Mine has a very heavy texture, but looks more like a Butia.

The photo of the largest one you have looks just like the mother (Butia X Jubaea) when it was that size. Does yours have any hooks on the tips of the fronds? Mine did when it was smaller, as Jubaeas often do, but as it grew it lost that characteristic. When mine finally flowered, the spathes were covered with tan fuzz, and they were bright pink on the inside, and the flowers were a bright magenta color. (See species list under N. Calif. web and there is a pic of the flowers).

As a "control" experiment, Patrick hand pollinated the mother tree with its own pollen using the same strict methods he would use any time, and not a single seed was set, so we assume the mother tree is self sterile. I will try to get him to do it again this year, so we can be absolutely sure. He is reluctant to waste time and effort on a single inflourescence, as this palm produces so many nice hybrid seeds.

Dick

[Alberto]

(PalmGuyWC @ Mar. 25 2008,09:00)

QUOTE

..........the seeds set on the mother tree were a "natural" set and not hand pollinated. We can't be 100% sure, but now we believe it was pollinated by two Butias that grow in close proximity to the mother tree.

What species are the two Butias that grow near it. Have the B.yatay flowered at the same time as the BxJ?

  I looks that the mother tree has a silver collor at that pic. I´d like to see a photo with someone standing at it´s side to see how big it is.....

[PalmGuyWC]

Alberto,

I hate to keep bouncing around from thread to thread, but if you go to Travel log, Dick Douglas garden, page 1, post #20, 2nd frame, there is a picture of the two Butias growing near the B X J. I grew the one on the left from seeds that came from Argentina and were called B. poni and they were only supposed to grow to 1 meter. Apparently B poni is no longer a valid name and the plam grew to be quite large. The blades are very narrow and a lot are held on each frond.

The one on the right was supposed to be B. eriospatha, but it is not, as the spathes are smooth with no tomentum. It has wider blades on each frond and has sort of a course apperance and it is more silver. You can tell from the photograph they have a different apperance. To be quite honest, we are not sure of the identiy of these palms, but they look different from my B. capitatas and B. yata. They could just be different forms of B. capitata, as hardly any two of mine look alike and there is a lot of veariation in the species.

Patrick uses the one on the left quite a lot as a mother plant as it seems receptive to various pollens. He no longer uses the one on the right as it is not receptive, but produces many dummy seeds. In fact, he cuts all the spathes off from the one on the right before they open, so to prevent the possibility of it contaminating the other mother palms

On page 1 are other pics of various Butias in my garden, and near the bottom of page 1 is a picturte of Steve's hybrid which I believe to be the same seed batch as the ones you and I have. There is a good picture of my B. Yata and the Butia X Jubaea. You asked if my B. yata blooms at the same time as the B X J, and the answer is yes, but it is located on the other side of my house and is some distance away.

It seems as soon as hot weather arrives all the cocoid plams bloom at the same time, and they bloom through out the summer. Patrick is kept very busy here in the warmer months and sometimes has to make two or three trips a week and he lives some distance away.

Dick

[iwan]

(PalmGuyWC @ Mar. 25 2008,07:00)

QUOTE

Alberto,

As Matt suggests, I think the palm that Steve in S. Calif. has is from the same seed batch that came from my Butia X Jubaea and the ones that you have. I also have one from that seed batch, but mine has grown very slowly and is only 1/3 the size of your largest one. They all seem to have very arching fronds, but mine is more green than gray. As has been mentioned earlier, the seeds set on the mother tree were a "natural" set and not hand pollinated. We can't be 100% sure, but now we believe it was pollinated by two Butias that grow in close proximity to the mother tree.

I only have the one plant from that batch, so I have no way to compare the veariations, but it would appear from your pictures and comments there was quite a bit of veariation, in color, growth, etc. It will be interesting to see how these hybrids develop as they grow older. Mine has a very heavy texture, but looks more like a Butia.

The photo of the largest one you have looks just like the mother (Butia X Jubaea) when it was that size. Does yours have any hooks on the tips of the fronds? Mine did when it was smaller, as Jubaeas often do, but as it grew it lost that characteristic. When mine finally flowered, the spathes were covered with tan fuzz, and they were bright pink on the inside, and the flowers were a bright magenta color. (See species list under N. Calif. web and there is a pic of the flowers).

As a "control" experiment, Patrick hand pollinated the mother tree with its own pollen using the same strict methods he would use any time, and not a single seed was set, so we assume the mother tree is self sterile. I will try to get him to do it again this year, so we can be absolutely sure. He is reluctant to waste time and effort on a single inflourescence, as this palm produces so many nice hybrid seeds.

Dick

Dick,

It would be very interesting if Patric would leave one inflorescence uncovered to freely polinate and then compare the seedlings with the intentional crosses.  Nice to be able to know which tree is poni.  I have a few x pony seedlings.

[PalmGuyWC]

Robert,

Please don't confuse the Butia I have with B. Poni. I looked up the literature on B. poni, and it's very confussed. The best guess is that B. poni was just confussed with juvinile B. Yata. I don't think Poni is a valid species. Poni is supposed to be a dwarf Butia and the palm I have is definately not a dwarf. The Butia genus is still very confussed, and there are so many veariations of the species. One issolated group of a species may look very different in another location, but I think this is true of most palms.

I guess this is why the taxonomist are pulling their hair out........how to call something a variety, or to place it in a seperate species.

Dick

[iwan]

Dick, I understood that from the previous post.  What I meant to convey was now I can picture one of the parents of my seedlings.

[iwan]

(PalmGuyWC @ Mar. 25 2008,10:54)

QUOTE

Alberto,

I hate to keep bouncing around from thread to thread, but if you go to Travel log, Dick Douglas garden, page 1, post #20, 2nd frame, there is a picture of the two Butias growing near the B X J. I grew the one on the left from seeds that came from Argentina and were called B. poni and they were only supposed to grow to 1 meter. Apparently B poni is no longer a valid name and the plam grew to be quite large. The blades are very narrow and a lot are held on each frond.

The one on the right was supposed to be B. eriospatha, but it is not, as the spathes are smooth with no tomentum. It has wider blades on each frond and has sort of a course apperance and it is more silver. You can tell from the photograph they have a different apperance. To be quite honest, we are not sure of the identiy of these palms, but they look different from my B. capitatas and B. yata. They could just be different forms of B. capitata, as hardly any two of mine look alike and there is a lot of veariation in the species.

Patrick uses the one on the left quite a lot as a mother plant as it seems receptive to various pollens. He no longer uses the one on the right as it is not receptive, but produces many dummy seeds. In fact, he cuts all the spathes off from the one on the right before they open, so to prevent the possibility of it contaminating the other mother palms

On page 1 are other pics of various Butias in my garden, and near the bottom of page 1 is a picturte of Steve's hybrid which I believe to be the same seed batch as the ones you and I have. There is a good picture of my B. Yata and the Butia X Jubaea. You asked if my B. yata blooms at the same time as the B X J, and the answer is yes, but it is located on the other side of my house and is some distance away.

It seems as soon as hot weather arrives all the cocoid plams bloom at the same time, and they bloom through out the summer. Patrick is kept very busy here in the warmer months and sometimes has to make two or three trips a week and he lives some distance away.

Dick

To save people having to search, here is the referenced picture

[PalmGuyWC]

Robert,

As usual thanks for posting the picture. There are a lot seedlings that have come up under each tree, and you are anyone else in N. Calif. is welcome to dig some if you want any more Butias. I've found that Butias transplant very eaisly. Some of them have several strap fronds.

Off subject, but growing to the left is a Trithrinax campestris. Last fall I dug a  trithrinax seedling and the single root broke off and left about 4" of the terminal root. I stuck it in a glass of water and left it in a window and forgot about it. A couple of months later I was surprised to see it had grown several nice latteral roots from the terminal root. I potted it and it appears to be growing. It only has one strap leaf. I think I will experiment with some Butia seedlings and see if they will generate new roots in water.

Dick