Palms Suitable for Roadways/Walkways

[Palm Guy]

Hi all,

In your experience what palms would be good for places where cars park and people pass often. Falling foxtails seeds and coconuts may deal a blow to people and cars and I've heard that falling King palm leaves can make a Bentley look bent. What about other species like Clinostigma and Bentinckia? Name anything you would plant next to your Mercedes parking spot or in my case...Ford focus.lol.

Cheers,

Mike F

[ariscott]

No clinostigma or royals... THEY would certainly dent a car or two...

Regards, Ari

[Palm Guy]

Yep definitely not Royals although many a people plant them in those locations anyways! Don't some palms give you a warning, ie, they hang for a bit before the leaves fall?

[ariscott]

Not with royals.. sometimes without warning. My Bentickia is still too small so I can't tell you whether the old leaves are too heavy or not. What about carpies? I hate them with passion, but then I don't think they will be a pest where you are. They are slender palms and look quite nice.

Regards, Ari

[bgl]

Mike,

Bentinckia nicobarica is definitely a good choice. Fronds are not that heavy. Actinorhytis calapparia might be even better. Probably a bit faster than the Bentinckia and my guess is that the fronds are also somewhat lighter.

Bo-Göran

[palmtreesforpleasure]

For Walkway defining edging try Chamaedorea oreophila, one row back from the mondo grass, helps create a gradient to taller palms

regards

colin

[Palm Guy]

All good suggestions guys. Notice how most of the palms mentioned look alike?

Actinorhytis calapparia

Bentinckia Nicobarica

Carpentaria Acuminata

Ari why the hatred for Carpies? I guess they wouldn't grow as prolific as in Australia but I'm pretty sure they would like it here.

[Palm Guy]

I would like to see Carpoxylon macrospermum as avenue/parking lot palms one day, although I'm guessing the leaves must be quite heavy. Anybody know for sure?

Carpoxylon Macrosperma - In case you guys hadn't figured it out, I'm a picture pilferer. If you posted a pic chances are I pilfered it!

[Palm Guy]

Colin I agree with the Chamaedorea suggestion. Definitely, nice to have smaller palms to create a natural look. Not to mention you dont have to worry about falling leaves/seeds unless your a dwarf!

[fastfeat]

I like Carpenteria a lot here in SoFla.

Also, Dictyosperma album, though they're slow growing.

Might also consider Veitchia spp (fronds aren't too heavy, seeds usually fall close to the trunk) and Adonidia (if LY isn't problematic in your area).

Ptychosperma elegans is so commonplace here, but it is great for medians, sidewalk cut-outs as small as 2'/.6m wide, takes poor soils. Can be invasive though.

The other species people are mentioning look great too, if you can purchase them in sufficient quantities at reasonable prices.

[bgl]

Mike,

As much as I like Carpoxylons I happen to disagree with those who think it's going to be the next best palm for commercial landscaping. It's not a slow growing palm, but it's much slower than current alternatives. A Clinostigma samoense for instance, is probably about 3 times as fast and an Actinorhytis about 4 times as fast. And yes, a falling crownshaft/frond is massive and fairly heavy. Not as heavy as C. samoense or a Roystonea, but heavy enough.

Bo-Göran

[Palm Guy]

I don't agree with you totally on that one Bo.  I don't think it will be as popular as the foxtail in our lifetime but as more become available I would think it will be utilized quite regularly in the landscape. It is a very beautiful, resilient, and somewhat fast palm which can take some cold. I think that its ultimate size and availability will be its limiting factors in the meantime.

Cheers,

Mike F

[Palm Guy]

Bo,

I hijacked this one from you. With palms that gorgeous I would risk ANY damage to my car!  I would like to see Samoense used more often. I'm pretty sure its a favorite in Hawaii but it needs to be used more often!  

Anybody had a Clinostigma topple over in a hurricane/high winds before?

[Palm Guy]

I like Carpenteria a lot here in SoFla.

Also, Dictyosperma album, though they're slow growing.

Might also consider Veitchia spp (fronds aren't too heavy, seeds usually fall close to the trunk) and Adonidia (if LY isn't problematic in your area).

Ptychosperma elegans is so commonplace here, but it is great for medians, sidewalk cut-outs as small as 2'/.6m wide, takes poor soils. Can be invasive though.

The other species people are mentioning look great too, if you can purchase them in sufficient quantities at reasonable prices.

Ken,

Dictyosperma album, Adonidias and Ptychospermas (can be weedy here also) are used extensively here. All perform really well during high winds and I wouldn't think twice about planting them. I am looking for something different though. Here are some shots of Dictyosperma album in Bermuda. I loves these.

I will have to give the Veitchia's another thought. Arecina and Joannis have grown on me after googling some pictures. I have only seen one in Bermuda which I was told was Veitchia Winin. Not too sure though. Have a look.

[brodklop]

Now for something completely different. How about Pritchardia Thurstonii

Hey Palm Guy, your not the only one.... Thanks to Al in Kona who has made this one of my favourites

[Palm Guy]

Brod,

I had those too!! I'm glad to know I'm not the only pilferer out there!

Pritchardia Thurstoniis are commonly used around here and that is the first fan palm mentioned! They do great here. Unbothered by winds or salt.  Very clean palm with small seeds. Since we're at it I'll post another one that I believe is Al's.

[brodklop]

Thanks Al... send in more

[brodklop]

Those seeds on that Veitchia (post 14) look to big for Winin. Maybe Montgomeriana

[brodklop]

Hey Mike can you post a picture of P.Thurstonii growing in Bermuda. It would be good to compare with the ones in Hawaii

Regards

Brod

[bgl]

Mike,

You're welcome to hijack any of my photos at any time! And I should add that we've never had any damage to any vehicle parked close to a Clinostigma (or any other palm).

Regarding my comment & opinion on Carpoxylon: I'm basing this on my own, admittedly fairly brief, experience selling palms to homeowners here in our area. I can sell Clinostigma samoense to just about anyone who wants to add palms to their landscape because they like the beauty of the palm of course, BUT the growth rate is also very important. Even to those who may be somewhat younger. Most people are not going to get to what I call the "Dypsis level", which is where we want to add all sorts of unusual and exotic palms to our gardens. The average palm buyer here simply wants a beautiful garden, and speed is very important. Given a choice between, for instance, a Clinostigma samoense and a Carpxoylon macrospermum, my educated guess is that AT LEAST 98 out of 100 buyers will go for the Clinostigma.

Bo-Göran

[_Keith]

(bgl @ Mar. 24 2008,20:04)

QUOTE

Mike,

As much as I like Carpoxylons I happen to disagree with those who think it's going to be the next best palm for commercial landscaping. It's not a slow growing palm, but it's much slower than current alternatives. A Clinostigma samoense for instance, is probably about 3 times as fast and an Actinorhytis about 4 times as fast. And yes, a falling crownshaft/frond is massive and fairly heavy. Not as heavy as C. samoense or a Roystonea, but heavy enough.

Bo-Göran

Sometimes, in a commercial landscape fast growing is a downside.  Plants are put in at the size initially to be attractive, and less growth means less maintenance.

[brodklop]

Mike,

How does Pritchardia Pacifica go in Bermuda. Is it warm enough to take the riggers of footpath planting.

I agree with Bo that Clinostigma samoense is a top palm. However they are very thirsty which is fine if you have in excess of 2500 mm plus of evenly spread rain. Footpath palms generally need to fend for themselves when it comes to water. So Pritchardias, Ptychospermas, Veitchias, Dictyospermas etc are more drought tolerant and therefore more suitable.

Basically you have to ask yourself what is the rainfall situation and how windy is it, and of cause what are temps.

Regards

Brod

[Walter John]

Livistona mariae or rigida

[cfkingfish]

In my opinion, I see Thrinax radiata as an excellent street liner that sheds little litter and whose seeds are small. Dainty but eventually tall, you can't go wrong!

[ariscott]

(Palm Guy @ Mar. 24 2008,19:53)

QUOTE

Ari why the hatred for Carpies? I guess they wouldn't grow as prolific as in Australia but I'm pretty sure they would like it here.

Mike,

Everyone asked me the same question.... Carpies are native and very prolific and WEEDS. Under carpentaria, usually you would have hundreds of carpies seedlings grows like grass... and if you don't weed religiously, you would have carpie forest  - literally. They are very fast grower too and can't be killed. You can plant and forget.

The birds love to eat the fruit, and then of course, they would spread the seeds everywhere... So, you don't even have to have the trees to have seedlings...

They are nice palms, I agree... but there are nicer ones out there.

Regards, Ari

[fastfeat]

Mike--

My eye to recommending species was based on assuming you were planning a large-scale urban planting (from the perspective of an urban forester). If you're looking for just a few trees in front of only your place, then your "suitable" species list can be expanded considerably, especially if you are going to do the maintenance.

Quite surprised that Veitchia spp. are not more common there. They are used extensively here in SoFla. They grow fast, transplant easily, grow on crappy limestone soil. If you can easily grow Dictyosperma, Veitchia spp. should be no problem.

[Really full garden]

Christian,I agree Thrinax radiata is a great option.Needs little water ,grows in poor soil and thrives near the sea. I also like groupings of Chamaedorea plumosa.

                                                                                               Scott

[bgl]

Mike,

The tall, single-trunked, Hydriastele palms (formerly Gulubia) would also be a good choice. Fast growing. And I should stress that even though we havn't had any problems here, I wasn't recommending Clinostigmas! But then again, I don't know if this is for your own property, or...? In a small space, a Clinostigma would not be appropriate.

And just one more comment on the Carpoxylons and their possible use in parking lots etc. The reason I don't believe they have a future in those kind of plantings is that its's necessary to plant fairly large size specimens to begin with. If not, they're going to get run over, trampled on, or maybe even stolen. Being that a Carpoxylon is slower than currently available choices, they will also be more expensive to acquire at the same size. And in most cases, it's probably also going to be very difficult to locate Carpoxylons with, say, 4-5 ft of trunk, as opposed to Syagrus, Roystonea, Veitchia or Archontophoenix of the same size.

Bo-Göran

[ariscott]

Agree... gulubia costata is nice, if you can find one or a few.

Regards, Ari

[MattyB]

I was thinking along the lines that Colin was going.  Keep something small next to the cars and you don't have to worry about it.  Or maybe something that's not as quickly self cleaning so you could get the fronds down.  Like Coccothrinax, Thrinax and Pritchardia as mentioned, any medium clumper Dypsis has smaller, lighter fronds but still is full due to the clump effect.  What about Attalea for a huge one with no leaf drop.  Or Arenga undulatafolia.  Self cleaning = dented cars.

[Palm Guy]

Brod,

I took some pictures of various thurstoniis and one palm that looked like a pacifica (maybe a thurstonii also). We just had spells of 50 mph+ winds and the thurstoniis seem to  have held up much better than the pacifica.  I can see either being suitable candidates. Pacificas look much better when given some shelter so they are used less often as a avenue/driveway palm. In all honesty, I think the Hawaii grown ones look much better.

Possible Pacifica

[Palm Guy]

(bgl @ Mar. 24 2008,23:04)

QUOTE

Mike,

You're welcome to hijack any of my photos at any time! And I should add that we've never had any damage to any vehicle parked close to a Clinostigma (or any other palm).

Regarding my comment & opinion on Carpoxylon: I'm basing this on my own, admittedly fairly brief, experience selling palms to homeowners here in our area. I can sell Clinostigma samoense to just about anyone who wants to add palms to their landscape because they like the beauty of the palm of course, BUT the growth rate is also very important. Even to those who may be somewhat younger. Most people are not going to get to what I call the "Dypsis level", which is where we want to add all sorts of unusual and exotic palms to our gardens. The average palm buyer here simply wants a beautiful garden, and speed is very important. Given a choice between, for instance, a Clinostigma samoense and a Carpxoylon macrospermum, my educated guess is that AT LEAST 98 out of 100 buyers will go for the Clinostigma.

Bo-Göran

Bo,

Thanks for the hijack permit. I assure you I have an arsenal of your photos in inventory!

I agree with you that fast is preferred in some cases but not in all. If someone comes to you who owns a small lot and has  worries about having a large palm towering their house you can always use the common phrase "you won't be alive to see it that size anyways! But I definitely see your point. Most of us palm freaks don't care about that stuff. We'll plant it and take any risks. But on a commercial stand point you may be right. If one was to sell to hotels or large estates, Clinostigmas would be the preferred palm  in that case.

One Dypsis that I see becoming used more often is Leptocheilos. Pretty, somewhat fast, somewhat resilient, but here I think they would get battered and not look that great during winter.They'll survive, but not happy looking. Falling leaves would be an issue also.

Cheers,

Mike F

[Palm Guy]

ometimes, in a commercial landscape fast growing is a downside.  Plants are put in at the size initially to be attractive, and less growth means less maintenance.

Ditto Keith. Some palms look great to begin with but as they age they tend to get ratty. Another case where slow growing may be benificial.

[Palm Guy]

Livistona mariae or rigida

Green leaf,

I'm hesitant to plant any Livistona's in Bermuda. We have a big big problem with Chinensis as they are very invasive. I dont have experience with those two but if they are not as invasive I will definitely give them a thought.

[Palm Guy]

(brodklop @ Mar. 25 2008,00:14)

QUOTE

Mike,

How does Pritchardia Pacifica go in Bermuda. Is it warm enough to take the riggers of footpath planting.

I agree with Bo that Clinostigma samoense is a top palm. However they are very thirsty which is fine if you have in excess of 2500 mm plus of evenly spread rain. Footpath palms generally need to fend for themselves when it comes to water. So Pritchardias, Ptychospermas, Veitchias, Dictyospermas etc are more drought tolerant and therefore more suitable.

Basically you have to ask yourself what is the rainfall situation and how windy is it, and of cause what are temps.

Regards

Brod

Brod,

Its windy here at times. Hopefully, the clinostigmas don't mind this kind of wind... We get about the same amount of rain as Miami but spread out evenly throughout the year.

These coconuts are planted at a bank where I used to work. I have picked up many a fallen coconut from this location but I always get paranoid walking underneath them. Cocos are definitely not a good one for falling leaves and seed.

[bgl]

Mike,

Once established I believe Clinostigmas will handle wind very well. When they're small, and especially if they still have their juvenile entire fronds, they will look EXTREMELY bad in strong winds.

Bo-Göran

[Palm Guy]

Chrisitan - Thrinax Radiata is another common one around here. They are also very salt tolerant too!

Ari- I guess your Carpy saturated! I feel the same way about Livistonas and to some extent the Phoenix species. They are very weedy around here. I still enjoy the Phoenix species though! Royals are also showing up in places they shouldn't be, but I like that so long as one doesn't show up next to my parking spot!

Ken- I was initially asking in general which palms would you recommend to place near heavy traffic locations or parking spots, but somehow it turned out to be which ones would be suitable in Bermuda. But your suggestions are appreciated mate! Veitchia's have definitely caught my eye and the next batch of fresh seed RPS offers I'll try some out! We have the same crappy limestone soil as SoFl. Nothing a bit of peat can't amend though.

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

In bermuda . . .

How about Washingtonias?  They have small seeds, and the leaves dont' fall until they're cut down.

Braheas are also good, though they'll be slow.  Don't know how they'd take the humidity.

Hmm.  Put on my thinking cap  . . . .

[Palm Guy]

Scott - Chamaedorea plumosa looks like it will do well here, given some shelter of course.

Bo - I know that you weren't recommending Clinostigmas for driveway/walkway areas but I found an excuse to post one of your photos so I took it! My property is quite small (just under .25 of an acre) so I would be limited to one or two Clinostigmas. Admittedly, I did start this thread while thinking of what can be planted in my yard that will do little damage to my neighbours and my own car/family but please suggest anything you would use in Hawaii also.

Hydriasteles look very nice btw. I have been so close to ordering some seeds in the past but back then I was focused on growing small to medium sized palms.  I know Ariscott recommended Costata which looks fairly similiar to Rhopaloblaste augusta which is another palm I like.

Since you mentioned Syagrus I will post a few pics I took that were next to the thurstoniis. They tend to be weedy here, and I think they topple over quite easily in hurricanes but I know in the states they tend to use them quite often on sidewalks and roadways.

[realarch]

Here are a coupe of shots of palms that seem to do pretty well next to the streets or parking lots with proper humidity and water of course.  The first one is a Veitchia, I think, your help Bo? The other one is Rhopaloblaste augusta. Doesn't look like fronds from either one would do much damage plus they are so beautiful.

Tim