I`ve heard from a Botanist that Cocos nucifera is capable of synthesizing its own nutritive elements out of pure quartz sand due to a highly developped mechanism in their roots, involving microrhiza (spelling...).

This weekend we`ve been riding a small boat in Sirinhaem close to a pure white sand dune by the sea and I came across a few wild coconuts that are thriving without fertilization in the area, in perfect conditions. I doubt any other palm, except maybe Medemia and Allagoptera, could be cultivated in such difficult soil conditions...where do they get the necessary trace elements, N, P and K from this poor white granular soil? Any thoughts?

wind erosion

...

Camping area in the dune

Look at this soil:

Well fertilizer is basically salts and growing that close to the ocean makes sense    

They grow all over the Hawaiian islands the same way with a lot of erosion and exposed roots.

Yes, I think it gets a lot of nutrients out of the seawater.

This "Sirinhaem" you're talking about, is it the same as Suriname? The former Dutch colony, north of Brazil?

I've been there last summer, I really love it there!

Greetings,

Kai

Hi Kai (Hai Kai?)

Sirinhaem is a small municipalty south of Recife, Brazil, where we own a small coconut grove and a weekend property by the sea. I haven`t been to Suriname yet but i`ve heard it`s very nice...any pics?

OK Dave, salt spray may have a few elements, but mostly NaCl...where does the Nytrogen come from?

Gileno, maybe it's the rain water that adds Nitrogen? Especially if there is a lot of lightning in storms. Thunderstorms tend to green up my unfertilised lawn better than normal rain...apparently the rain has good amounts of nitrogen in it. It would be interesting to analyse the ground water and see what it contains.

Daryl

Is there much seaweed that has been washed up over time and mixed in with the sand? Seaweed has everything in it. That combined with Nitrogen in air from thunderstorms as Daryl mentioned might be enough. As for groundwater, it would be basically seawater wouldn't it. I have a theory that coconuts will drink seawater. I think salt content will suppress root fungus too. It could be why in cooler more marginal area's they tend to only be succesful near the ocean, where salt in the ground and atmosphere suppresses fungus. That's my theory. But coconuts are helped by the sea giving extra heating in winter as well. I think there's a lot about the coconut and where it's capable of growing that isn't really known yet. The coconut is not like any other palm IMO.

regards

Tyrone

Daryl:

Lightnings and thunderstorms are not so commonhere, except for a few occasions, around April/May. We do get a lot of rain though, throughout the year, but this type of soil has a perfect drainage and causes no water retention.

Tyrone:

The ground water level is deeper than 10 meters and not salty at all (at least in my place, where the sand is not so white like this). You can dig more than 15 meters in this sand and still find no trace of organic matter (seaweed is eventually deposited but far away from these cocos.)

What I've noticed is the intrincate and rather shallow root system for these coconuts, creating some sort of a meter deep "carpet" near the surface, appearing in the erosion parts.

Anyone knows about the Physico-chemical process involved with the microrhiza?

(Gileno Machado @ Feb. 08 2008,22:39)

QUOTE

Hi Kai (Hai Kai?)

Sirinhaem is a small municipalty south of Recife, Brazil, where we own a small coconut grove and a weekend property by the sea. I haven`t been to Suriname yet but i`ve heard it`s very nice...any pics?

OK Dave, salt spray may have a few elements, but mostly NaCl...where does the Nytrogen come from?

Pics from Suriname.

Brownsberg:

Berlijn:

Interesting topic!

Almost certainly there has to be a N source (and unique uptake system) to keep that much foliage green on sand.  

Hopefully someone here has a definitive answer.

Actually the process is not that unique.  The air is composed mostly of nitrogen and nitrogen fixing bacteria are almost if not totally ubiquitous.  These bacteria take nitrogen from the air and produce ammonia.  They were originally thought to be primarily or only found in legumes but now are thought to be found throughout the rhizosphere.  

Jon

Thanks Jon--

I'm familiar with N-fixing bacteria on many legumes and Casuarina, but N-fixing bacteria on palms is news to me. That would explain it.

Here's a link:

http://www.cpcri.nic.in/garden%20management-coconut.htm

I also read (Google: coconut chlorine) that chlorine (present in seawater) is very important to coconut physiology.

Guess I need to go back to school...

The nitrogen comes from bird poop!

Think how many birds do you think stand or live in the canopy of large palm trees.

Bird Poop , Bird Poop! Bird Poop!

There I got it off my chest!

:-)

Jeff

I was under the impression that most nutrients in soil were deposited there by rainwater.  If that is the case, sand may not hold on to the nutrients for very long, but if the rain is frequent the supply would be constantly replenished.

When I tested my rainwater about a year or so ago, it had all sorts in it.  It was only a home kit, so it may not have been especially accurate, but it certainly wasn't pure in the way that some places suggest.  The rainwater I tested was normal rain, not the result of thunder storms and it contained NPK, various useful micros and various less desirable things.  I suppose it is possible that my sample was contaminated, but I can't believe that everything in it came from contamination.

When you check your rainwater next time, also check a sample of distilled water alongside it.  Also, be sure your that whatever you used to collect the rainwater is spotless clean.  The most important parts of your experimental design are the controls that have to be built into it.  

The results from your last test, "about a year ago", described above may all result from contamination.

Jon

NaCl (salt!) acts as a fertilizer for coconuts, but surely does not contain NPK.

Bird droppings surely matter.

What about nutrient-rich underground water flowing through the sand, from the hills down to the shore?

Carlo

No mountains in FL and they grow just as well in the seashore sand. I thought they would do fine in my sandy soil (not by the shore) but they seem to suffer without regular fert. I think the salt spray is needed to grow in pure sand.

Here's a link describing use of table salt to supply much-needed chlorine in coconuts:

http://www.pcarrd.dost.gov.ph/phil-or....nut.htm

Hmmm thats interesting. I've been weary with adding too much salts in the ground as I live in a coastal district. Perhaps I do need more for my Malay dwarfs. Additional fertiliser of muriate of potassium (KCl) might do the job as it has both the stuff that it needs (plus epsom salts to balance the Mg uptake). Will see how it goes for the rest of this year.

Rahaidi

Rahaidi, How long have you had your Malay Dwarfs in the ground? I have one at the moment that I brought down from Geraldton.

regards

Tyrone

Interesting topic. My guess is that there is more crud in that sand than you think, especially layers that are deposited during storms that may be pretty deep now. When walking up and down the beaches here in FL there is often lots of rotting vegitation, dead fish here and there after storms. The sea water itself is often teaming with little microorganisms that once washed up, probably decay into all kinds of good nutrients. Also the salts in the sea probably have all the micros you could want. And then there is bird poop too.

Hi Tyrone, I've got two in the ground for about couple years and one in a plastic bag container. The ones in the ground have been moved once already so they're still getting used to the new surroundings and coming up slowly. Also they're amongst the grove so they're not getting full sun, however they still surving and have survived our winters already. Got a couple of spears coming up with all this hot weather that we've been having. I plan to put the last one in pure beach sand with alot of sun at the back of my house and see how that one goes.

Infact I've just ordered another 25L bag  malay dwarf, Cabadae and a Renda from up north. Pretty pricey though, $85, $95 and $55. Collecting them this Friday...can't wait.

Interesting topic. I was just down by Kalapana, about 6 miles away from us, a few days ago. Kalapana is the area that was inundated by a lava flow in 1990 and about 190 homes were destroyed. The lava covered the existing beach and filled up the entire bay, about a quarter mile out. The few Hawaiian families, whose homes were not destroyed, have planted hundreds, maybe even thousands of Cocos nucifera over the last several years in an area close to the ocean. These palms are obviously deficient in nutrition, but they live in a very harsh environment with strong winds most of the time, very sunny and very little rain, and either in black sand OR cracks in the lava. There's no organic material whatsoever, and I'm fairly certain that the amount of bird poop in this area is neglible, at best. Here's a larger individual with a bunch of smaller ones. These have all been in the ground for (at least) several years.

And a smaller one that seems to be facing an uphill battle! But who knows!!

Bo, We have walked down to the beach past those Cocos several times and in the space of 2 years from when I first saw them they had grown and some were actually starting to look half decent. I think it's cool to see life springing forth from solid lava and it gives you an idea of how the Hawaiin islands came to be. I would think that it would be benificial to leave the fallen fronds to act like a mulch and eventually add organic matter around the palms.BTW, that little shack at the end of the road has the best Ono burger on the island   !

Steve

Okay heres my attempt in growing them in Perth Australia. This one has been planted amongst my palm grove. I just wanted to see if the added protection as well humidity increases in between the palms can help it survive. So far so good.

Steve - ask and you shall receive!  See the Big Island thread in Ohana Nui!