Butia paraguayensis seeds

[PalmatierMeg]

Hello fellow palm lovers,

I was lucky enough to obtain some Butia paraguayensis seeds. I understand that they can be very difficult to germinate. Can anyone give some advice on the best tricks to get maximum germination from these guys? Thanks.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Meg, I germinated some of these B. paraguayensis 4 or 5 years ago. I actually have good luck with all Butia seed and their hybrids. As with all Butia, the key is patience. I think the idea that Butia's are hard to germinate came from people (like myself) who like to check their seeds every few days expecting to get results. I have most Butia's come up anywhere from a month after planting to 4 or 5 years later with surprise sprouts coming at any time they get high heat. I soak all butia seeds for at least a week, with water changes any time the water gets discolored. I use rain or distilled water. This is important as hard water does not penetrate the seed coat nearly as well. If I forget them for over a week it does not seem to harm the seed and even two weeks or more has given ok results. I then plant them in a community pot with barely moist, very loose, well drained mix. I sometimes microwave the mix to sterilize it. This is mostly to kill weed seeds as I know they will be in that mix a long time and I don't want to weed it. Butia seeds seem almost immune to rot for me. The pot goes into a tightly closed plasic bag to keep moisture in and weed seed out. The sprouts come when the days heat the mix up to the 95F or so range for a few days and the nights cooling down a little as any hot normal day would do. Oh yea, the big tip... Butia seeds are shy so do not keep looking at them to see if they have sprouted or they won't. LOL. Best of luck and do not throw them away or they WILL sprout. LOL.

[iamjv]

Jeff, good info for those of us that have always had problems germinating this palm... Do you sow fresh seeds or do you let them 'age' for 6 months or so??? I've heard others state that fresh seeds won't germinate... thanks in advance. Jv

[gyuseppe]

germination butya and very long, at least 6 months

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Jeff, good info for those of us that have always had problems germinating this palm... Do you sow fresh seeds or do you let them 'age' for 6 months or so??? I've heard others state that fresh seeds won't germinate... thanks in advance. Jv

Jv, I'm not sure if fresh seeds sprout or not but I suspect they don't. All my Butia seeds are kept, after collecting, some with fruit on some naturally clean from laying on the ground, in whatever I collected them in (plasic bags, old pots, etc.). Over the winter the fruit will dry up or rot off. I then have a wire cage "tumbler" with rocks inside that wears off all the old dried fruit and fibers that may remain so that I plant a nice clean seed. I think another sprouting secret may be a need for exposure to cold over winter, but I have not tested this. It certainly does not hurt. The fall before last I collected a plasic grocery bag full of weeping Butia seeds that had laid under their mother tree for long enough that the worms and bugs had cleaned the seed. When I got home I just set the bag on the ground in an out of the way place and forgot it all winter and half of last summer. Fall leaves and mulch, scooped up with the seeds, were also in the bag. When I finally thought to plant them the bag was full of sprouts and single leaf seedlings. A few were starting their 2nd leaf. The temp over winter went down to about 14 or 15F a couple of times and to the low 20's a few times. We almost never have a day that does not get above freezing and most well above that. Other Butia seeds exposed to cold over the years have also shown no harm done from that cold. I have heard some claim a dry period is needed. That may be true as some of my seed are allowed to dry after cleaning but the ones naturally laying under our local trees and even in their mother's trunk boots sprout like grass in some cases. We get ample rain here and some dry spells in summer so the seeds get exposed to varying conditions.

[PalmatierMeg]

Jeff, good info for those of us that have always had problems germinating this palm... Do you sow fresh seeds or do you let them 'age' for 6 months or so??? I've heard others state that fresh seeds won't germinate... thanks in advance. Jv

Jv, I'm not sure if fresh seeds sprout or not but I suspect they don't. All my Butia seeds are kept, after collecting, some with fruit on some naturally clean from laying on the ground, in whatever I collected them in (plasic bags, old pots, etc.). Over the winter the fruit will dry up or rot off. I then have a wire cage "tumbler" with rocks inside that wears off all the old dried fruit and fibers that may remain so that I plant a nice clean seed. I think another sprouting secret may be a need for exposure to cold over winter, but I have not tested this. It certainly does not hurt. The fall before last I collected a plasic grocery bag full of weeping Butia seeds that had laid under their mother tree for long enough that the worms and bugs had cleaned the seed. When I got home I just set the bag on the ground in an out of the way place and forgot it all winter and half of last summer. Fall leaves and mulch, scooped up with the seeds, were also in the bag. When I finally thought to plant them the bag was full of sprouts and single leaf seedlings. A few were starting their 2nd leaf. The temp over winter went down to about 14 or 15F a couple of times and to the low 20's a few times. We almost never have a day that does not get above freezing and most well above that. Other Butia seeds exposed to cold over the years have also shown no harm done from that cold. I have heard some claim a dry period is needed. That may be true as some of my seed are allowed to dry after cleaning but the ones naturally laying under our local trees and even in their mother's trunk boots sprout like grass in some cases. We get ample rain here and some dry spells in summer so the seeds get exposed to varying conditions.

Thanks for the info. I am not sure how "fresh" these seeds are. I got them from someone in Ireland, of all places. He admitted he has had no success germinating them there. Right now I am soaking them. I plan to containerize them later this week. Rather than leave them inside with the tropical seeds, should I put them outside for the remainder of the winter? I will still see occasional lows down into the 30s and 40s until March. Is that enough of a "chill" for the next 4-6 weeks to effect germination? Or should I think about putting the container in the refrigerator for a while? Thanks for any responses.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Jeff, good info for those of us that have always had problems germinating this palm... Do you sow fresh seeds or do you let them 'age' for 6 months or so??? I've heard others state that fresh seeds won't germinate... thanks in advance. Jv

Jv, I'm not sure if fresh seeds sprout or not but I suspect they don't. All my Butia seeds are kept, after collecting, some with fruit on some naturally clean from laying on the ground, in whatever I collected them in (plasic bags, old pots, etc.). Over the winter the fruit will dry up or rot off. I then have a wire cage "tumbler" with rocks inside that wears off all the old dried fruit and fibers that may remain so that I plant a nice clean seed. I think another sprouting secret may be a need for exposure to cold over winter, but I have not tested this. It certainly does not hurt. The fall before last I collected a plasic grocery bag full of weeping Butia seeds that had laid under their mother tree for long enough that the worms and bugs had cleaned the seed. When I got home I just set the bag on the ground in an out of the way place and forgot it all winter and half of last summer. Fall leaves and mulch, scooped up with the seeds, were also in the bag. When I finally thought to plant them the bag was full of sprouts and single leaf seedlings. A few were starting their 2nd leaf. The temp over winter went down to about 14 or 15F a couple of times and to the low 20's a few times. We almost never have a day that does not get above freezing and most well above that. Other Butia seeds exposed to cold over the years have also shown no harm done from that cold. I have heard some claim a dry period is needed. That may be true as some of my seed are allowed to dry after cleaning but the ones naturally laying under our local trees and even in their mother's trunk boots sprout like grass in some cases. We get ample rain here and some dry spells in summer so the seeds get exposed to varying conditions.

Thanks for the info. I am not sure how "fresh" these seeds are. I got them from someone in Ireland, of all places. He admitted he has had no success germinating them there. Right now I am soaking them. I plan to containerize them later this week. Rather than leave them inside with the tropical seeds, should I put them outside for the remainder of the winter? I will still see occasional lows down into the 30s and 40s until March. Is that enough of a "chill" for the next 4-6 weeks to effect germination? Or should I think about putting the container in the refrigerator for a while? Thanks for any responses.

Meg, I would let them experience the outdoors, under damp conditions (protect from pests), until March, then let the soil dry out a little and put them in the refrigerator for 2 to 3 weeks. After that soak the soil and put them in a very warm place outside or in a shadehouse or greenhouse. Then let the soil go from a little dry to wet again as normal variable weather patterns would do. Don't be afraid to let the pot get very warm for good germination but then once sprouted give them a little relief from the hottest sun.

[merrill]

Hi, Meg:

My suggestion that you dry a relatively small fraction of them briefly, then crack them carefully. This has worked for me even in the case of Acrocomia.

merrill

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Hi, Meg:

My suggestion that you dry a relatively small fraction of them briefly, then crack them carefully. This has worked for me even in the case of Acrocomia.

merrill

Merrill, good to have you comment on this! I have some 2 year old Acrocomia totai seed planted. Would you suggest digging these up, drying, and cracking them? Thanks for your reply, Jeff.

[merrill]

Hi, Jeff:

Just a few of them till you see how well it works. If the first one you crack doesn't have a seed relatively free from the shell, dry the next one longer. Good Luck!

merrill

[iamjv]

Jeff, thanks for the info! It sounds like a drying off time or aging is needed; which marries up with what I had heard previously. Appreciate the detailed response. Jv

[PalmGuyWC]

In the case of Jubaeas, Patrick Schafer tells me, he plants some when they are fresh, and others he drys for about 6 months until they rattle. Once planted in a medium, he says he can tell no difference in germination time. Butias are different. They seem to require a cold/hot, moist/dry period to germinate.

Dick

[Kailua_Krish]

Meg,

Any updates on these seeds? I purchased some too around the same time and they still are "sleeping" as Kris would say

-Krishna

[PalmatierMeg]

Meg,

Any updates on these seeds? I purchased some too around the same time and they still are "sleeping" as Kris would say

-Krishna

Nada, Krishna. I've had no luck with any Butias so far. But the seeds haven't rotted so I persevere.

[Kailua_Krish]

Mine also. I just recently acquired some Butia sp. "Florianolipas (spelling is wrong here)" seeds from him and I was just wondering if you had figured out how to get them popping!

-Krishna

[Vic]

Mine also. I just recently acquired some Butia sp. "Florianolipas (spelling is wrong here)" seeds from him and I was just wondering if you had figured out how to get them popping!

-Krishna

Krishna, i have recently had success with some of these new butia after about 7 weeks in a prop with daytime temps at 38c and night time down to around 20c. I used the 'baggie' method with a mixture of perlite and vermiculite. Varying the temps seem to have been the key for mine as i have had very little success over the years germinating any butia sp trick for me. They also came for Darren in Ireland, who i know has recently germinated some of the new sp also.

[Kailua_Krish]

Thanks Vic! The seeds are extraordinarily small for a butia, or so it seems to me from my limited experience. They are also much rounder. I am really interested to see what these grow in to. Thanks again for the advice!

-Krishna

[Nigel]

Thanks Vic! The seeds are extraordinarily small for a butia, or so it seems to me from my limited experience. They are also much rounder. I am really interested to see what these grow in to. Thanks again for the advice!

-Krishna

Harri Lorenzi was here a couple of weeks ago to make a full study of the plant. Dr Noblick will need to decide if it is indeed a new species. The only doubt Lorenzi had is that the coastal Butia in Uruguay also has a round seed with pumpkin shape fruit, but that Butia is much larger, with recurved leaves and large seeds. This Butia lacks trunk fibre and has a strictior type leaf with only a twist at the end of the leaf, surely the only Butia to do this.

[freakypalmguy]

Thanks Vic! The seeds are extraordinarily small for a butia, or so it seems to me from my limited experience. They are also much rounder. I am really interested to see what these grow in to. Thanks again for the advice!

-Krishna

Harri Lorenzi was here a couple of weeks ago to make a full study of the plant. Dr Noblick will need to decide if it is indeed a new species. The only doubt Lorenzi had is that the coastal Butia in Uruguay also has a round seed with pumpkin shape fruit, but that Butia is much larger, with recurved leaves and large seeds. This Butia lacks trunk fibre and has a strictior type leaf with only a twist at the end of the leaf, surely the only Butia to do this.

Hello Nigel,

Do you have any pictures of this Butia and the fruit?

Matt

[Nigel]

Hello Nigel,

Do you have any pictures of this Butia and the fruit?

Matt

Matt, I started a thread a while back.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...l=florianopolis

[freakypalmguy]

Hello Nigel,

Do you have any pictures of this Butia and the fruit?

Matt

Matt, I started a thread a while back.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...l=florianopolis

Excellent, I remember them now, thank you Nigel.

Matt