Is this a Butia eriospatha?

[Christian_G]

Hi!

I am new to this discussion board, and I would like to start by asking you to help me to identify the palm shown on the first picture, and to comment on the seedlings grown from seeds of this palm. The palm is growing in the south of France. It has a rather thick trunk with the base reminding me very strongly of an elephant foot. The trunk is very smooth on the first 2 meters (~ 7 feet). The leaves are rather short and dark green. Here is a picture showing the crown of this palm. It must be a Butia, but which species?

Unknown palm

Another seedling

On some seedlings I observed that the emerging leaves showed a dense brown tomentum. Maybe it is a new Butia species, which should be named Butia eriophphyllum or B. eriofolia …   The Butia capitata seedlings I am growing do not show this dense tomentum.

“Wooly seedling” of the mystery palm: note the dense tomentum (blue arrowheads), which can also be found along the leaves (red arrowhead)

So now my questions would be:

1) Is the mystery palm a Butia eriospatha? Or a even Butia hybrid (Butia x Jubaea, …)? The seeds and the deep green colour of the leaves would argue for B. eriospatha. Or is it even something different?

2) How can you explain that some seedlings have quite broad juvenile leaves while others have much thinner leaves? Maybe I should mention that there was a fruiting Syagrus romanzoffiana growing not far from the mystery palm. Could the “broad leaf seedlings” be hybrids between the mystery Butia and Syagrus? And how do you explain the dense tomentum on some of the seedlings?

Anyway, all seedlings are growing rather fast (when compared to Jubaea and B. capitata), and have shown to be hardy down to – 6C in damp weather without damage.

Thank you in advance!

Ciao,

Christian

[M@ximus]

Ciao  Christian!

Seems  to  be  a  cross   Butia  x  Jubaea , (  In  south  France  is  easy) but   I'm  not  shure!!

In  any case  is  a  beautiful palm

Can  I  Buy  some  seeds   of  it   or  swap  with  other  palm  seeds?

Please  let  me  know  

my  e-mail  is  on personal  details!!

Ciao  M@x

[Dave-Vero]

Christian_G, I lack experience with Butia hybrids, but would like to praise your photos of the seeds and seedlings.

[J. Ingram]

Christian...

Sorry I have no info to contribute, but I would like to

say that your posting is absolutely superb!  Very

detailed and organized...

[DoomsDave]

Justin!

Ingram!

Nice to meet you!

Tell us a bit more about your garden, so our voyeuristic palm-freaked hearts can swell some more . . .

d

ave

[J. Ingram]

Dave - you've actually given me great advise on several occasions in the past!  I was on the old board- can't remember the name I had, but I used to live in Vallejo CA.  I dug up and took whatever was reasonable, with me to Fairfield.  I have 16 huge Washies (pre-existing), Caryotas, Bizzies, a few varieties of Dypsis, Kings, several Syagrus sp., Arengas, Livistonas and several more marginal and obscure varieties growing.  I'm still cramming in more and more as time goes.  But thanks for all the advise and I'm sure to ask for more!  Hopefully the posts will be half as good as Christian's...

[merrill]

Hi, Christian:

Do the seeds. [i. e., endocarp] of your mystery palm have the three [or rarely more] eyes characteristic of Butiinae?  The infructescences seem to displayed more closely together than usual for Butia.  You certainly provided excellent photos!

[merrill]

Hi, Christian:

Do the seeds. [i. e., endocarp] of your mystery palm have the three [or rarely more] eyes characteristic of Butiinae?  The infructescences seem to displayed more closely together than usual for Butia.  You certainly provided excellent photos!

[Christian_G]

Hi!

Thank you all very much for your replies!

@ J. Ingram & Dave - Vero: Thank you very much for the positive feedback!

@ Maximus: I am sorry, but I have no more seeds of this palm. Maybe I will go to Nice (southern France) in autumn, so I could collect some for you and people interested in this palm. The palm is growing in the "Parc Phoenix" (very close to the airport of Nice).

@ merril: Yes, the seeds have three eyes. During germination, I observed that in some cases all three eyes germinated. Most seeds, however, germinated only from one or two eyes, respectively.

Ciao,

Christian

[jam99]

Christian, have you got any other photos of the unknown palm such as from a greater distance? Thanks. Jan

[Kris]

Dear Christian G  

Iam not too aware of this perticular palm

in this discussion.

But one this is praise worthy ! i.e you have taken

pains in your illustration.which simply proves the

fact you love_Palms.

the illustration of seeds is fabulous.

and the artistic representation of the leaf stalk

is very gracious.

your work is awe inspiring.since i learn form

from you guys a lot.

keep up the good work.

Love,

Kris(India).

[Christian_G]

Hi,

thank you again for replying.

@ jam99: Sorry, I have no other pictures from this palm.

@ Kris: Thank you very much for the nice words! Yes, I do like palms & other plants very much. I also liked very much the pictures of your plants.

Ciao to Slovakia & India,

Christian

[Nigel]

Hi Christian,

This is not the answer you are looking for, but I am pretty sure your tree is Butia capitata.

The shape of the seed is not any indication of species as Butia capitata seed seems to vary greatly, I have a Butia capitata in my garden which was covered in seed when I bought it , and it is exactly like yours , as are the seedlings. The tree itself is not unlike your picture, having a fat trunk, already self cleaning at the base, and possibly of similar lineage as it originated from an Italian nursery.

I have imported Butia eriospatha this year, the dead giveaway is the spathe itself which is coated in heavy fur , your pics clearly show no sign of this. I am sure that if it was eriospatha the spathe would be glaringly obvious.

Sorry for the negative response !