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gavilan1

***California Freeze Warning - NWS***

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gavilan1

This was received today - it was also issued for Kern Co. desert area with temps. into the low 20s:

      ...FREEZING TEMPERATURES EXPECTED FOR THE ANTELOPE VALLEY THANKSGIVING MORNING... .A COLD AND DRY AIR MASS PUSHING IN FROM THE GREAT BASIN WILL BRING WINDY CONDITIONS TO THE LOS ANGELES AND VENTURA COUNTY MOUNTAINS TODAY... AND FREEZING TEMPERATURES TO THE ANTELOPE VALLEY LATER TONIGHT AND THURSDAY MORNING. ... FREEZE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 1 AM TO 9 AM PST THURSDAY... A FREEZE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 1 AM TO 9 AM PST THURSDAY. SUB-FREEZING TEMPERATURES ARE EXPECTED IN THE ANTELOPE VALLEY LATER TONIGHT AND THURSDAY MORNING. TEMPERATURES WILL LIKELY FALL BELOW FREEZING FOR 4 TO 8 HOURS.

Instruction:

MEASURES SHOULD BE TAKEN TO PROTECT SENSITIVE CROPS AND VULNERABLE ANIMALS SHOULD BE KEPT INDOORS IN A BARN OR SIMILAR STRUCTURE.

Area: ANTELOPE VALLEY-

Affected Counties or parts of: Santa Barbara, Ventura, San Luis Obispo, Los Angeles

Sent: 2007-11-21T08:54:50-08:00

Original Sender: KLOX@nwws.oes.ca.gov

From: NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LOS ANGELES/OXNARD CA

Anyone with palms should take appropriate measures in those areas to protect your specimens.  Hopefully this does not extend into Orange, Riverside, or San Diego Counties.

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Exotic Life

Again? Last year california was hit also ... i was always think frost over there was not normal?

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MattyB

Robin, the areas described in the freeze report do get these temps normally.  This isn't metro L.A., O.C. or S.D., this is inland quite a ways and or north of LA.

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happ

These cold night temps are forecast for the upper desert & mountain areas; regions that normally experience frost.

It should be fairly cold even in the lowlands with 40's and possibly 30's overnight in wind protected areas.

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epicure3

It is quite normal for those area to have freezes and frosts. It is also quite normal for the NWS to alert people that a freeze is coming for the first time that will essentially end the growing season. If the freeze happens, then they probably won't issue any more for those areas for the rest of the winter even though they will experience more freezes.

I better go get my animals in the barn. Oh yeah, they're my kids.

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happ

Sounds like weatherman bashing  :laugh:

Actually the NWS has it right.  The upper Mojave desert [2000-5000'] northern LA county to Inyo will see sub-freezing temps [this is not just a frost advisory  :o

Palmdale recorded 35F this morning & is 44F @ 8PM  There are frost advisories inland valleys of NorCal as well as San Pablo bay to Napa

Even coast side minimums from San Francisco to San Diego could drop below 50F over the next week unless fog redevelops.  Until the winds kicks in [maybe tomorrow night] 40's could be widespread  :o

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BS Man about Palms

I see there is a possibility of rain here next week?  :D :D  (I hope)....wait, I forgot, of course its going to rain. I have been "weatherproof" for roughly 1 1/2 - 2 years. We are due to open some walls and move windows this Sat.  OF COURSE its going to rain!!  :angry:

Bill

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happ

Bill

Unfortunately nothing is certain weather-wise, esp 7 days out but there are model [GFS] runs that are predicting rain late next week.  We can only hope  :(  

LA: 74/54

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PalmGuyWC

At 5:50 AM, Walnut Creek CA, Thanksgiving morning, it's 32.7F and I expect it will drop another degree or two at daylight. This will be our coldest night of the season and I expect there will be some patchey light frost. This is considered normal for our area and actually about a week beyond when we can expect our first frosts. It's crystal clear and the air seems very dry this morning, so there may not be any frost.

Considering there has been very little cloud cover, November has been above normal in temps. in our area, and things are still growing, but now the fun begins.

Dick

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doubravsky

Weather.com says it will hit 36 tonight in my area.. so I went out and dragged in my 2 Adonidias and the Cocos for a while...

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Don Little

(doubravsky @ Nov. 22 2007,21:13)

QUOTE
Weather.com says it will hit 36 tonight in my area.. so I went out and dragged in my 2 Adonidias and the Cocos for a while...

Wow Dave that's low.  What's your Zip, weather.com has my low listed tonight at 46 which will be the coldest so far this year.  I checked riverside and it said 41 but riverside is a big city and can vary greatly within a few miles

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epicure3

Laying here like a beached whale after turkey, stuffing, sweet potato yum-yum, mashed potatoes, pumkin pie and apple crisp it's 55 degrees outside. Way too cold to go out. Not that I could move anyways.  :)

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ruskinPalms

Oh, 55 is not too bad :)  I actually like the 50's..It is the 40's and below that start to leave a mark :(

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happ

Consistent with the holiday, we can be thankful for the marine layer for maintaining night temps in the 50's.  Fog should come to an abrupt end tomorrow night as the long-forecast winds kick in for a few days.  Where it is windy the minimums should stay in the 50's.  The winds should die down early next week so nights will likely drop in the 40's  :(

Possibility of rain later next week but so far the storms slamming into the PacificNW are moving inland before dropping south.  Drying out, these weak upper low pressure systems move into Nevada [Las Vegas minimums in the upper 30's] & eventually all the way down to Cabo San Lucas BAJA [night temps in the low 60's  :o

Cool hazy Thanksgiving in LA :  70/52

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PalmGuyWC

Yikes!  The forcast was wrong again. Thanksgiving evening they said the winds would start blowing and mix the air and not so cold as the night before. Well, they were wrong. Not a breath of air movement this morning and it's 28F and the roof tops are white with frost. Not serious here, but there goes the foliage on the Cannas and the Bananas. I knew it was coming sooner or later. May as well get the missery over with.

Dick

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happ

WoW Dick  :o is that unusually cold for San Ramon valley?

Wind is going to get fierce today  :(

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doubravsky

Don my zip is 92508.... I haven't really found a good source for temps that match mine. On weather.com I check the Riverside temp, then I check the March Air Field temps. I'm actually a lot close to the March AirField, but their temps always seem to be too cold. My place is about 600' above Riverside... so I sometimes don't get as cold.

My low was only 44.... and they had listed 36 for March, and 41 for Riverside.

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PalmGuyWC

Hi Hap,

I can't say 28F is unusual for here this time of the year. The climate up here is so damn perverse. Some years we can slide into December with no frosts, and other's in the beginning of Nov., but we can always expect some frost or freezing down to 25 or 27.....and that's a good winter.

Unfortunately, because of the drought and no cloud cover, I think this is going to be another nasty winter....for all of Calif. My gut feeling is.....we are going through a cooler cycle than normal, but I hope I'm wrong.

Dick

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Don Little

(doubravsky @ Nov. 23 2007,12:36)

QUOTE
My low was only 44.... and they had listed 36 for March, and 41 for Riverside.

Dave,

Glad to hear that you didn't get that cold after all, and hope that we can avoid the devastating temps of last year.  My low was 46 F here last night and 51 F in the canopy protected areas.  Stil the coldest night of the year for me and I see some lower temps coming in the forecast.

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Don Little

(PalmGuyWC @ Nov. 23 2007,12:55)

QUOTE
Hi Hap,

I can't say 28F is unusual for here this time of the year. The climate up here is so damn perverse. Some years we can slide into December with no frosts, and other's in the beginning of Nov., but we can always expect some frost or freezing down to 25 or 27.....and that's a good winter.

Unfortunately, because of the drought and no cloud cover, I think this is going to be another nasty winter....for all of Calif. My gut feeling is.....we are going through a cooler cycle than normal, but I hope I'm wrong.

Dick

Dick

I never would have known that you get that cold where you were at.  Hope everything does well for you this winter.

Let's hope that the winter isn't going to be as bad as last years.

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mppalms

40.1 deg. F low here this morning.  Yesterday's 38.7 was the low for the season.  Fingers crossed..

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

Jason

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PalmGuyWC

Thanks Don for your well wishes, but I know I don't live in a banana belt. I can usually expect at least a couple of cold spells here with below freezing, and last winter in Jan. there was a 3 week stretch with every night below freezing with the lowest hitting 23F.

I plant accordingly, and I have two arbitrary minimum temperatures in mind. Most of my palms such as Butias, Jubaeas, Chamaerops, Trithrinax, Sabals, Braheas, and others will take it down to 20 or 22F with no damage, and some much lower. Then I have a second level, where below 25F I can expect minor foliage damage but nothing permanent.  In spite of these restrictions, I must still have around 50 or 60 different kinds of palms. I have a few other "playthings" that are less hardy, but if I lose them, it's to be expected. I find the winter chill affects me more than the plants.

Dick

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mppalms

Dick,

Have you ever posted a list of your success stories?  I'm just getting into growing palms and am honestly headed for a train wreck at some point when it freezes hard even here.  I'm trying Butia purpurascens and archeri, which I suspect will be solid down to around 20 deg. F, in addition to larger tough-as-nails Phoenix species and now Chamaedorea (microspadix and radicalis) and Dypsis decipiens (photo-worthy in a decade or more!).   My marginals now include relative-unknowns like Ceroxylon vogelianum, parvum, echinulatum and amazonicum.  Of relatively-hardy Chinese species, I'm trying a Guihaia species, Rhapis multifida, and both Chuniophoenix species.  In a bout of over-confidence, I picked up a couple of Cyphophoenix elegans, which I'm sure I'll lose one day once they get some size.  So, I'll either end up with a great landscape in 15 years, or I'll get some good data for this board!   :D

Since it sounds like you've experienced 1990 and 1998 in the same place, you have a wealth of cold-hardiness experience.

Jason

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BS Man about Palms

Looks like next weeks rain possibility is a bust.. :(

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PalmGuyWC

Jason,

Since this is a weather board, I'll move back to Disscussing Palm Trees World Wide and list some of my successes and disasters with palms. I'll call it "Cold Hardy Palm Garden."

Dick

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BS Man about Palms

Yuck!  39F at my house in Oceanside right now!

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Cycadcenter

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR in Fallbrook

Just checked and we hit 32 down next to the golf course.

BUMMMMMMER

70-85 in Childers sounds better.

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Shon

Me too Bill 39.1 at daybreak.Where the hell did that come from? That has been my lowest since March by 10 degrees. I had some cloud cover before I went to bed.

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PalmGuyWC

32F in Walnut Creek in N. Cal, 5 degrees lower than forcast. Not a sign of frost, so the air must be very dry. Not a breath of air movement either. Get out your smudge pots guys.  It ain't gonna be fun this winter.

Dick

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doubravsky

Wow... the wind really helped here.... 48 was our low.

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happ

The wind did it's thing & actually maintained temps between 55-60F all night depending on the strength of the wind [which has turned out to be much weaker than forecast  :P

In-fact, the beach today may be the warmest area w/ 80F predicted.

A classic La Nina is setting up.  PacNW has been cold and wet for weeks but none of that rainfall is entering California.  The cold airmass may be reinforced by next weekend.  Frankly, it is hard to predict 7-days out but if

ECMWF/European Center for Medium-Range Weather Forecasting verifies than we haven't seen nothing yet  :o  

NWS-SAN FRANCISCO 11-24-07 0845

THE ECMWF SHOWS AN UPPER CLOSED LOW FORMING

OVER NORCAL WITH A MUCH CHILLIER/COLDER AIRMASS CIRCULATING OVER OUR

AREA THROUGH ALL OF NEXT WEEKEND. THICKNESSES WOULD BOTTOM OUT AROUND

530 DECAMETERS IN THIS SCENARIO. AIRMASS MODIFICATION WOULD BE

MINIMAL SINCE THE TRAJECTORY WOULD KEEP IT MOSTLY OVER LAND. IF THIS

PATTERN VERIFIES THIS SURELY COULD BRING IN OUR COLDEST WEATHER SO

FAR THIS SEASON. IT COULD BE LED IN BY SOME SHOWERS AND LOWER SNOW

SHOWER LEVELS FOLLOWED BY A DRYING NORTHERLY FLOW...CLEAR NIGHTS AND

FROSTY/FREEZING MORNING TEMPERATURES.

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gsytch

As Calif cools down, Florida warms up. Today it is nearly 80F with hazy sun and some humidity. The forecast for this week: highs in the lower 80's lows in the middle 60's perhaps some showers here or there (probably there!) .05 total rain  in Nov after such a wet Oct....ahhhhh the subtropics can be fun!....La Nina come our way! Greg in New Port Richey   currently 78.9F at 1pm dewpoint 63F

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PalmGuyWC

Dear Hap,

Oh S*#t!!!!! I kind of expected this.

Dick

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happ

Yeah but that's next week.  Today there is another fire in the Santa Monica mts in Malibu

Hope you can access the animated satelite image of the smoke blowing out to sea  :o

http://sat.wrh.noaa.gov/satelli....&size=1

11:00AM CONDITIONS AT LEO CARRILLO BEACH:

Temp: 82F

Dew point: 0  Humidity: 4%

Wind: N 7MPH [this is good news  :)

Dozens of homes lost & another fire has broke out in Ramona  :(

malibu15.jpg

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mppalms

41.0 deg. F last night.  Was nearly 50 when I went to sleep late.  I guess the winds (which were brisk on the hill last night) died toward morning.

Dick, I'll look out for your other thread.  Thx.

Jason

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osideterry

I'm chiming in late because I seemed to have brought back an internal visitor from Mexico. 3-solid days of you guess what plus a fever of 101-102F Thursday and Friday. Just hoping I don't have malaria.

My yard bottomed out at 38.7F, which seems like a very minor inconvenience right now.

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Shon

Yeah the way Dick and Happ are talking these might be looked upon as the "good ole days".

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happ

(Shon @ Nov. 24 2007,20:22)

QUOTE
Yeah the way Dick and Happ are talking these might be looked upon as the "good ole days".

Shon

I am only reporting NWS forecasts that could very well be incorrect.  For example here's the afternoon report from San Francisco/Monterey:

"EXTENDED...MODELS NOW COMING INTO BETTER AGREEMENT . . . AND EURO LESS BOLD IN CUTTING OFF A VERY COLD LOW OVER CENTRAL CA NEXT WEEKEND . . .  THIS ALLOWS COLD DRY NORTHERLY

WINDS TO SET UP OVER CA FRI INTO NEXT WEEKEND LEADING TO BELOW

NORMAL TEMPERATURES BUT LITTLE CHANCE OF ANY MOISTURE . . . AIR FROM WESTERN CANADA . . . BOTH MODELS WOULD BRING IN MUCH COOLER

AIR . . .

LOOKING AT THE NEXT 8 TO 10 DAYS . . . CONSISTENT WITH THE LA NINA PATTERN WITH A STRONG SW FLOW INTO THE PACIFIC NW BRINGING LOTS OF

RAIN FOR THEM THROUGH THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER.  FOR CALIFORNIA A FLAT RIDGE WILL PERSIST WITH MODERATING TEMPERATURES BOTH DAY AND NIGHT. THUS DRY AND NOT AS COLD AS FIRST FORECAST APPEARS TO BE THE BEST FORECAST THROUGH THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER".

Big differences in mimimum temps this morning, depending on one's location:

NWS-LA 11-24-07

GETTY CENTER :  58

LAX :  49

DOWNTOWN/USC : 48

SANTA MONICA PIER :  62

UCLA : 59

BURBANK :  49

CHATSWORTH : 58

PASADENA : 64

Where there was wind the night was mild but tonight could get colder since the winds will be lighter.

LA: 78/55

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epicure3

(happ @ Nov. 24 2007,22:21)

QUOTE

(Shon @ Nov. 24 2007,20:22)

QUOTE
Yeah the way Dick and Happ are talking these might be looked upon as the "good ole days".

Shon

I am only reporting NWS forecasts that could very well be incorrect.  For example here's the afternoon report from San Francisco/Monterey:

"EXTENDED...MODELS NOW COMING INTO BETTER AGREEMENT . . . AND EURO LESS BOLD IN CUTTING OFF A VERY COLD LOW OVER CENTRAL CA NEXT WEEKEND . . .  THIS ALLOWS COLD DRY NORTHERLY

WINDS TO SET UP OVER CA FRI INTO NEXT WEEKEND LEADING TO BELOW

NORMAL TEMPERATURES BUT LITTLE CHANCE OF ANY MOISTURE . . . AIR FROM WESTERN CANADA . . . BOTH MODELS WOULD BRING IN MUCH COOLER

AIR . . .

LOOKING AT THE NEXT 8 TO 10 DAYS . . . CONSISTENT WITH THE LA NINA PATTERN WITH A STRONG SW FLOW INTO THE PACIFIC NW BRINGING LOTS OF

RAIN FOR THEM THROUGH THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER.  FOR CALIFORNIA A FLAT RIDGE WILL PERSIST WITH MODERATING TEMPERATURES BOTH DAY AND NIGHT. THUS DRY AND NOT AS COLD AS FIRST FORECAST APPEARS TO BE THE BEST FORECAST THROUGH THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER".

Big differences in mimimum temps this morning, depending on one's location:

NWS-LA 11-24-07

GETTY CENTER :  58

LAX :  49

DOWNTOWN/USC : 48

SANTA MONICA PIER :  62

UCLA : 59

BURBANK :  49

CHATSWORTH : 58

PASADENA : 64

Where there was wind the night was mild but tonight could get colder since the winds will be lighter.

LA: 78/55

NWS in San Diego says that weather will be pretty benign for the next week.  ??? Other than lows in the 40s and highs of around 70 where I live.......

I don't feel very concerned.

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gavilan1

Garden Grove, 3 miles south of Disneyland, in Orange County, CA., got down to 43 degrees F this morning for over an hour before sunrise.  I originally posted this thread to give a head's up to those who are growing cold sensitive palms, like me (Cocos nucifera, etc).  Time to move the small ones into the cold frame, and bag the larger ones that can't come inside with polyethylene.  Tonight should be colder than this morning's low.  Those that aren't growing cold sensitive palms, or don't care, can ignore the NWS warnings.  We all have free will.  And the local nurseries have lots of replacement palms just waiting for a new home.

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