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AZ_Palm_Guy

Palm with deficiencies

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AZ_Palm_Guy

Hello everyone,  was wondering if I could have some input from others on what possible nutritional deficiencies my palm may be suffering from. 

Received this Phoenix Rupicola from jungle music in California. As you can see it has light green and some dark green in the fronds. I was thinking possible nitrogen deficiency since it is light green all over. It also has some white substance on it, not sure if I should be concerned about that.  I have only had this palm for two days now. 

Any input on possible deficiencies would be appreciated. 

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ahosey01
33 minutes ago, AZ_Palm_Guy said:

Hello everyone,  was wondering if I could have some input from others on what possible nutritional deficiencies my palm may be suffering from. 

Received this Phoenix Rupicola from jungle music in California. As you can see it has light green and some dark green in the fronds. I was thinking possible nitrogen deficiency since it is light green all over. It also has some white substance on it, not sure if I should be concerned about that.  I have only had this palm for two days now. 

Any input on possible deficiencies would be appreciated. 

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Honestly stick it in the ground and it might get past that.  I’ve planted palms that looked similar in pots and then looked like rock stars 6 months after planting.

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96720

This thing came from California what do you expect put it in the Phoenix sun and it will be great 

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Jim in Los Altos
15 minutes ago, 96720 said:

This thing came from California what do you expect put it in the Phoenix sun and it will be great 

Jungle Music in So Cal caries hundreds of palm species that you could only dream of growing in Phoenix due to their being better suited to cooler moister West Coast conditions and lack of below freezing temperatures. That Phoenix rupicola will thrive if it’s just planted in the ground. They love CA conditions. In fact, of all Phoenix species, rupicola is probably the least tolerant of extreme heat particularly in full sun and least cold hardy of the genus.  

Edited by Jim in Los Altos
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BigWaveDav3

The white stuff may be mealybugs or scale. You can blast that off with a hose.

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AZ_Palm_Guy

@ahosey01 I may have to wait on the planting since the lows have begun to drop. I'm hoping that's all I have to do, hopefully get this guy on the right track in spring. 

@96720 only sees morning sun-2pm where it currently sits and also its filtered sun. Palm came in looking like that. Even Phil mentioned to transition it slowly to AZ sun. I'm sure by spring time it'll be fine. I have a good spot where it will be protected.

@Jim in Los Altos thanks for your input. I have a good spot for it where it will be protected from harsh AZ summers and freezes if it comes down to it. Just thought i would give it a shot.

@BigWaveDav3 thanks I'll look into it see if i can remove it.

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ahosey01
1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Jungle Music in So Cal caries hundreds of palm species that you could only dream of growing in Phoenix due to their being better suited to cooler moister West Coast conditions and lack of below freezing temperatures. That Phoenix rupicola will thrive if it’s just planted in the ground. They love CA conditions. In fact, of all Phoenix species, rupicola is probably the least tolerant of extreme heat particularly in full sun and least cold hardy of the genus.  

Either that or the Phoenix species that grows straight in the salt marshes with mangroves.  Forget the name but I remember someone telling me how one got fried in a private garden in SoFL at like 34 degrees.  Rupicola is like the standout best looking one though IMO.  They do OK in AZ in eastern exposure in highly irrigated lawns with decent soil. 

Edited by ahosey01

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96720

Rupicolas grow great in Phoenix it is my favorite Phoenix species mine is in full sun and just beautiful I will take a picture of it tomorrow and post it. I know Phil has great palms as many of mine have come from him this one came from Kevin and he said I probably wouldn’t be able to grow it.

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sonoranfans

there is a mature rupicola triple at treeland nursery in chandler, it was doing great in full sun last I saw it.  That palm from jungle music looks potassium deficient and perhaps Mg deficient as well.  Get it OUT of that pot, looks ike soggy soil.  Soggy soil is known to cause nurtient deficiency in many plants.  It will be fine in phoenix but since it came from coastal socal where the sun is not as intense, put a small shade net tent over it for a season and it will thrive.  These grow in tropical india on cliffs 300-1200 meters elevation.  They see both the wet monsoon and a hot dry season so they are going to be able to adapt to arizona well, given high drainage and a timely watering cycle.

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AZ_Palm_Guy
35 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

there is a mature rupicola triple at treeland nursery in chandler, it was doing great in full sun last I saw it.  That palm from jungle music looks potassium deficient and perhaps Mg deficient as well.  Get it OUT of that pot, looks ike soggy soil.  Soggy soil is known to cause nurtient deficiency in many plants.  It will be fine in phoenix but since it came from coastal socal where the sun is not as intense, put a small shade net tent over it for a season and it will thrive.  These grow in tropical india on cliffs 300-1200 meters elevation.  They see both the wet monsoon and a hot dry season so they are going to be able to adapt to arizona well, given high drainage and a timely watering cycle.

@sonoranfans I just gave it water yesterday since it had reached about 83°F where I live.  Soil started drying out and was about dry 3" down. I make sure not to keep the soil soggy as that will lead to issues like you stated. Today will be 80°F so another warm day to help dry it up. Would you suggest that I repot it in the next pot size up? What should i do with those deficiencies? Use new palm potting soil or give it some palm fertilizer? Or just wait til spring to plant?

I will make sure to make a shade tent for it like you stated. And I do agree once it goes through it first season, I'm sure it'll look great once it adapts!

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ahosey01
1 hour ago, AZ_Palm_Guy said:

@sonoranfans I just gave it water yesterday since it had reached about 83°F where I live.  Soil started drying out and was about dry 3" down. I make sure not to keep the soil soggy as that will lead to issues like you stated. Today will be 80°F so another warm day to help dry it up. Would you suggest that I repot it in the next pot size up? What should i do with those deficiencies? Use new palm potting soil or give it some palm fertilizer? Or just wait til spring to plant?

I will make sure to make a shade tent for it like you stated. And I do agree once it goes through it first season, I'm sure it'll look great once it adapts!

Where are you at?

If your house is in a seasonal floodplain or on old ag land, or there was once an irrigated lawn there, soggy soil can be a concern.  If you live in, say, north Scottsdale or Cave Creek or up by me in Wickenburg, then you probably can’t even actually keep your soil soggy.  I have a buddy in Morristown growing all kinds of stuff up on a mountainside and I’m not exaggerating when I say he lets his drippers run continuously through June.  He doesn’t turn them off.

Edited by ahosey01

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sonoranfans
2 hours ago, AZ_Palm_Guy said:

@sonoranfans I just gave it water yesterday since it had reached about 83°F where I live.  Soil started drying out and was about dry 3" down. I make sure not to keep the soil soggy as that will lead to issues like you stated. Today will be 80°F so another warm day to help dry it up. Would you suggest that I repot it in the next pot size up? What should i do with those deficiencies? Use new palm potting soil or give it some palm fertilizer? Or just wait til spring to plant?

I will make sure to make a shade tent for it like you stated. And I do agree once it goes through it first season, I'm sure it'll look great once it adapts!

The soil was intended for a greenhouse grow most likely with a desirec watering schedule.  I would be testing moisture at the bottom of the pot, that is where the roots are actively growing.  It must dry cycle down there.  Keep it protected from wind, easier to control the dry cycle.  I would probably wait till early march to plant it out then with shadecloth tenting.  Its a minor potassium deficiency, feed it with palm food when its warm.  Mine started out with a little bit of K deficiency till I got it in the ground.  They dont like pots and can go without water better than queens mules etc.  Do not plant near a water loving species as it will be harder to please both.  These palms grow on cliffs where they lose water to runoff so they are not as picky as their jungle look may indicate.  They want good drainage, you should assess a site before planting.  Dig a hole 18" deep by 18" wide and fill with water.  Observe how long till it empties.  If it empties in less than 6 hrs you have good drainage, if not start digging deeper and ammending with perlite till it does drain.  You might have to pick another spot if ammending doesnt work, but you will understand your soil drainage for palms in that spot and in the yard a bit.

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AZ_Palm_Guy

@ahosey01 I live southeast of casa grande. I'm pretty sure the house was built on ag land since there is quite a bit around where I live.  Soil on the property is clay, but the soil in the front drains faster than the back. The front is more loamy and much nicer. 

@sonoranfans okay I will do the testing at the bottom and get it some good palm food. I will make sure to plant accordingly this coming spring and make sure to have it protected from the sun with some shade cloth. I will make sure to check drainage like I have with all my other palms. Thanks for the advice and recommendations.

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Merlyn

I'd guess a combination deficiency, and it seems that the new spear is also affected.  My guess would be a lack of Nitrogen, Potassium and Magnesium, and maybe Manganese too.  It has some of the spotting you see with potassium deficiencies, general lime green color from Nitrogen or even Iron deficiencies, and possibly dead leaf tips from Mn or over/under watering.  If it were just one symptom you could look at it and say, "yup that's an iron deficiency."  Here's my cheat sheet on visible symptoms:

  • Nitrogen Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
  • Potassium Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
  • Magnesium Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
  • Iron Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
  • Manganese Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
  • Boron Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
  • Water Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color

I'd follow Sonoranfans advice regarding fertilizing (maybe Osmocote + a bit of Manganese Sulfate + a bit of Magnesium Sulfate) and watering.  If you aren't planting it until next spring I'd probably step it up into the next size larger pot with a good draining mix.  My current mix is equal parts generic topsoil, perlite, and Turface MVP.  You could also substitute pumice for the inorganics, depending on what's available in your area.  If you repot you may discover the lower soil in the pot has turned to muck.  If that's the case you could just hose off some of the old soil and then wash in your new potting mix when you repot.  That'll probably help with the deficiencies, along with the fertilizer.

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AZ_Palm_Guy

@sonoranfans thanks for the little cheat sheet on deficiencies! That will really help.  I went ahead and potted it into the next size pot (7g) I inspected the soil and roots and found no muck and it was not foul smelling. Roots looked healthy too. Will add some fertilizer tomorrow since we still have a couple more weeks of great weather (75°F+). Hopefully when the future fronds darken back up I can post an update to this thread.  Thanks for the help. 

Edited by AZ_Palm_Guy
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AZ_Palm_Guy

@Merlyn thanks for the help and the deficiency list. I didn't realize i didn't tag you and i couldn't edit my comment lol

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96720

This is a picture of my rupicola I wish they were more common I think they are a lot hardier than people think mine is in the coldest part of my yard a Bismarckia on the other side of the pond almost died in one of our cold spells and it never phased the rupicola.

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