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Replacing Oak with Foxtail or other Palm Help

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Merlyn

@AspiringDana sure, any irrigation specialist could install that for you.  They may also be able to adjust your existing sprinkler system so that it sprays "near" but not "on" the new palm trunks.  The oak roots are a pain, but if you are having the oak removed you can ask the tree people to "go deep and chase the roots" when stump grinding.  They'll charge a bit extra for this, maybe an extra $150 or so.  They should be able to remove the main 2-3' diameter trunk that goes about ~2' deep, PLUS any large roots that go out to about 6' diameter from the trunk.

If you are planting in the same spot you'll need to do this to provide space for planting.  A palm won't grow on top of the old stump with a generic "grind it down below ground level" stump grind.  Otherwise whoever is digging the hole to plant your Foxtails is going to get really frustrated!  If you are planting at least 6' from the center of the oak trunk, then the roots are generally much smaller and easier to cut through with a reciprocating saw or backhoe.  

There will still be some smaller roots (2"-6" diameter) that extend out from the center of the ground stump, but that shouldn't be too tough for an irrigation specialist to handle.  I'd agree, though, if the hose bib is directly across from the oak tree then there will be a LOT of big roots there, and feeding a line underneath may not be possible.  But you could always run the 1/2" line down the side of the house, far enough away that there aren't any significant roots.  Then run it under and back to the new palms.  An irrigation specialist could definitely figure that out.

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn This is a LOT of great info for a newbie like me! Thank you!!

This makes sense now why one tree service would have suggested I not plant the Foxtails where the Oak will be removed, but a little further away and also why another tree service didn't bother to put the stump grinding estimate into the initial quote (I'm still waiting). This will definitely take more forethought and I'm just about fried thinking about it all. Your discussion has helped me be way more specific when dealing with the tree and irrigation services, so I am really grateful for that, thank you! I am really grateful to everyone who took the time to help me with this project. :shaka-2:

Edited by AspiringDana

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Merlyn

@AspiringDana the easiest method is to plant your palms about 6 feet (or more) away from the original oak trunk.  But any tree service with a decent sized grinder can get deep enough to clear space for a new planting.  I did it the hard way here, digging out the stump of a 70' tall water oak by hand.  You can see the scale of the stump and roots, about 8 feet diameter.  I removed the entire center and filled with plain dirt, then planted a Bismarck there.  It worked great and is totally healthy.  I have since removed about 12 other oak stumps the same way and replanted with no problems.

So if you want the palms i  that spot it is no big deal.  Just pay the tree service to grind the heck out of it, and have the palm guys dig out the grindings and replace with plain dirt.  Edit: to see the specific post just click on "Merlyn replied to a topic" below and it'll take you to the stump removal photos.

 

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn Thank you for your detailed photo journal about the stump removals and plantings you've done. I am really impressed with how much you're able to do. I did find a stump grinder who mentioned he was going down 4 feet. I guess I have to get him to do more. I need to read back and see if anyone mentioned how much more depth would be needed to get rid of the stump so the new tree has room for growth. I really appreciate the discussion! Thank you! :shaka-2:

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AspiringDana

Hey all,  

I see nothing here about whether a stump grinder going down to 4 feet will do the job for re-planing in the same spot. Does anyone have any suggestion about that for me? Much appreciated! 

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Merlyn
20 minutes ago, AspiringDana said:

@Merlyn Thank you for your detailed photo journal about the stump removals and plantings you've done. I am really impressed with how much you're able to do. I did find a stump grinder who mentioned he was going down 4 feet. I guess I have to get him to do more. I need to read back and see if anyone mentioned how much more depth would be needed to get rid of the stump so the new tree has room for growth. I really appreciate the discussion! Thank you! :shaka-2:

In general I think 2-3 feet is good enough for almost any planting, at least on water oaks.  At around the 2 foot mark almost all of mine transitioned from "trunk" to reasonably widely spaced 2-6" diameter roots.  I definitely didn't go deeper than 3' on any oak, and had no problems planting in those spots.  As a reference, most common 25 gallon pots are about 18" deep.  Here's the last stump I did this to in July...it was NOT the right time of year to be digging.  :D

Original tree was 80' tall and about 5' diameter at ground level.  The stump was ground, but only a "generic" grind and not a "deep grind."  The solid root area extends out to approximately 12' diameter:

811842841_P1080516NWstumpstart.thumb.JPG.41188a258dd843fb1cbe5a8d5b8f662a.JPG

About halfway done I sliced off all the perimeter roots, and took a pie-slice out of the center.  The dirt level is about 18-24" down, and I've gotten under the solid trunk chunk:

1616932885_P1080525NWstumpmiddle.thumb.JPG.ecaceda29f883039463bb60a96795d4a.JPG

And the final pieces taken out of the hole.  The biggest piece is standing upright on the left, and laid flat on the right side.  It's about 3' x 5' and about 18" deep.  Below that there were inconsequential small roots.  I hauled all the other pieces off and just refilled with sandy soil. 

1628848853_P1080533NWstumpfinalchunks.thumb.JPG.22c99191e996ba1281f02e7a28662075.JPG

Hopefully that gives you a better idea of how big the pieces are.  It might be a good idea to have the tree company take away the grindings, and then have the palm tree company backfill with regular fill dirt.

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AspiringDana
On 9/13/2021 at 1:19 PM, Merlyn said:

It's useful if you have a sprinkler head pipe "somewhat near" the palms, so you can put a low pressure converter on it:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Riser-Connection-Kit-RCKIT-1PS/202078374

This converts any standard thread sprinkler riser to a 30psi regulated drip output.  It takes 1/2" drip tubing:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1-2-in-x-100-ft-Drip-Irrigation-Tubing-Coil-T70-100S/204751445

And then you can add individual button emitters (0.5gph, 1gph, 2gph or 5gph) with 1/4" tubing to route the water to where you want it.  I generally place 2x1gph drippers for a Foxtail single or double, running 30 minutes per day.  I place the end of the 1/4" tubing about 1 foot from the base of the trunk, with the ends of the 2 lines sorta evenly spaced around the trunk:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1-0-GPH-Emitters-30-Pack-SW10-30PSX/202078404

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1-4-in-x-100-ft-Distribution-Tubing-T22-100SX/202078362

OR you could use small "fan sprayers on a stick" and place the fan near the trunks, with the fans spraying AWAY from the trunks.  Here's the 180 degree fans, they also make full pattern and 90 degree pattern:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Drip-Half-Pattern-Microspray-on-Stake-MSSTKTH1SX/204751221

You just adjust the flow rate with the small dial on the fan sprayer, or by using 1 or more of the button drippers.  So you could use a pair of the 90 degree fans, or a couple of drippers, etc.  You just want to water the ground "near" the trunk (1' to 6' away) but not directly spray or drip water on the trunk base.  That's why I like the dripline setup, because it's super easy to move the lines around.  Once you get the hang of it, it's really easy to run lines to individual plants or areas.  I have 3 separate timers with 8 watering zones and probably 2000' of 1/2" line and over 1000 button drippers in my yard...  :D  The only problem I've had with my setup is that I'm on well water and the pressure regulators get clogged about once per year.

@Merlyn I am just reviewing this information because I have to tell the irrigation company something about how to do this. They are talking about putting "bubblers" in, but they will do whatever I want.

I am curious, if I have a triple Foxtail Palm planted, should I have 3 emitters going at 1gph / Day and is that daily for life? or just for several months and then taper off?

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AspiringDana
39 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

In general I think 2-3 feet is good enough for almost any planting, at least on water oaks.  At around the 2 foot mark almost all of mine transitioned from "trunk" to reasonably widely spaced 2-6" diameter roots.

@Merlyn Thank you for this discussion! It was exactly what I needed to know! Much appreciated! :shaka-2:

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Merlyn
17 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

@Merlyn I am just reviewing this information because I have to tell the irrigation company something about how to do this. They are talking about putting "bubblers" in, but they will do whatever I want.

I am curious, if I have a triple Foxtail Palm planted, should I have 3 emitters going at 1gph / Day and is that daily for life? or just for several months and then taper off?

If the irrigation company is talking about using drip bubblers, those are probably fine too.  There are several different types, from "stream bubblers" to adjustable ones, etc.  I haven't generally used them, because they are much more expensive than the little button emitters.  The 1/2 pattern bubblers on a spike are $2.65 each at HD, and the button emitters are $0.30 each.  That matters when I'm doing hundreds of them, but not if you are doing 3-4 bubblers on a single palm cluster.  As long as the ones they are talking about are relatively low flow (like adjustable 0-3gpm "micro bubblers") then it'll work great.  The "high flow" 0-13gph ones are tough to adjust to a reasonable flow rate.

As far as volume goes, I'd think either 3 or 4 bubblers at 1gph would do fine, running for 30 minutes per day, every day.  Some others here suggest doing a deep water cycle, so run on alternate days for 1 hour per day.  I don't know if there is a difference in how the palms grow.  Just figure 3-5 gallons of water delivered total.  In general running it daily for 6 months or so will get them established.  In a wet area like FL they might not need supplemental irrigation once they are established, but it probably wouldn't hurt them.

If they are installing a timer for you, make sure it is timer valve -> drip pressure regulator -> drip system.  If they install the pressure regulator before the valve then it'll wear out quicker and clog easier.  If the regulator is downstream of the valve then it only sees water when the system is "on" and it'll last longer.

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn I have been so super busy, I am sorry I did not respond to your help sooner. Thank you very much!!

I finally had the Oak tree removal done this past week. Next week is the stump grinding and the HOA's irrigation lies very close to the stump and my driveway (of course) :blush2: See red dot in photo.

The HOA's irrigation runs 3x's/week for approximately 25-30 minutes each time. Unfortunately, I have no idea about the gph but I put in a call to the irrigation company.

Nothing is set in stone yet for the irrigation. I am not 100% set on a piped system on a timer at the hose bib. I think I may end up watering with a hose and circular type of store bought sprinkler set up with a timer until the tree gets established running each day with the 1gph for 30 mins/day OR the deep water schedule of alternate days for 1hr/day. The deep water schedule may work better for me if I can camp on to the end or beginning of the HOA's schedule and add in one extra day perhaps. The absolute down side of this will maybe be having to move the hose 1-2x/week for the grass trimmers (a hassle).

If I set the sprinkler to a drip or bubble type of setting and plop it down in the center of the clump would that be enough to do the trick? Or, do I need 3 separate bubblers in (where? the interior of the clump or exterior) locations? Thanks to members here I've learned that it's not good to water the trunks of these trees, but I also know I cannot do anything about the HOA's sprinkler system set up other than request that they redirect the water after the trees have been planted and the odds of that actually working out are slim. I may be able to request that the HOA's irrigation be modified to add in pipes to the bases of the trees and they did say they will put a bubbler(s) to them, so they'll at least get the 30 mins, 3x/wk.

I was all set to irrigate permanently, but when I asked neighbors who have these trees in my neighborhood, they told me they have never had to do any extraneous watering and the trees look very good and healthy with no signs of browning that I can tell. I believe the way the landscape is I would need to rip up my sidewalk in order to put in new permanent irrigation and I'd really rather not at this time if I can avoid it for several reasons.

CE985816-EA10-43E7-9266-63B793BF4A84_1_201_a.jpeg

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Merlyn

Probably your best bet would be either:

  • Ask the HOA if you can just convert that one nozzle to a dripline, and just put a couple of bubblers out in the area.  HD sells a $10 conversion kit for a standard pop-up sprinkler body, and any irrigation person should be able to do a conversion quickly and cheaply.  The schedule of 3x per week and 30min per day is more than enough runtime. 
  • As you noted, once the palms are established they don't need extra water in FL.  That might take around 6 months to establish, so your could hand water for 6 months and just have the HOA cap or re-aim that one sprinkler head so it doesn't hit the trunks.  That would certainly be the easiest solution. 
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AspiringDana

@Merlyn Thank you SO MUCH for all of your help! I really appreciate everything you've (all) shared with me!  The tree is coming this week and I'm super excited! :yay:

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DoomsDave

@AspiringDana nice to meet you!

I was getting ready to heap advice, but it looks like @Merlyn has you well taken care of.

Do show us your new tree when you can. I think a foxtail palm will be a good one for where you are in that kind of situation. Much as I love Royals, those giant leaves are a pain.

You might also want to tell what problem you want to solve. We know you wanted to get rid of the oak because it was getting to be a nuisance. Perhaps you valued its shade? What other attributes were  you looking at? If you want shade, you could plant more foxtails or other palms later if you want.

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AspiringDana

@DoomsDave Thanks! :)  I will show the planted Foxtails. 

I was trying to find something that would provide shade, but I have really been enjoying all the sun I'm getting into my kitchen windows! It's really nice and bright so I am ok if the Palms don't provide as much shade as I had with the Oak. I have admired the Foxtails since I came to Florida so I am excited to have a few of my very own!

Other attributes I was looking at was the absolute minimal in care and trimming. I just don't want to deal with the constant trimming and maintenance that many palms need.

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DoomsDave
29 minutes ago, AspiringDana said:

@DoomsDave Thanks! :)  I will show the planted Foxtails. 

I was trying to find something that would provide shade, but I have really been enjoying all the sun I'm getting into my kitchen windows! It's really nice and bright so I am ok if the Palms don't provide as much shade as I had with the Oak. I have admired the Foxtails since I came to Florida so I am excited to have a few of my very own!

Other attributes I was looking at was the absolute minimal in care and trimming. I just don't want to deal with the constant trimming and maintenance that many palms need.

You're welcome. Have you experienced a southern summer yet? I'm in California, but it can get hot here, too, and houses ill-designed for it can be like furnaces. You may decide a cave might be better, after broiling in a "light and bright" room.

If you want, it should be easy enough to plant additional palms if you want more shade.

The general rule, in my experience, is that the best palms are small to medium size, with "crownshafts."

Here's my biggest Royal; the crownshaft is the green part that's between the gray trunk and where the leaves come out. It's sort of a like a "wrapper" for the tree's growth bud. (It was a mistake to put that Royal so close to my house. :crying: Some editing will be needed, alas.)

Really big palms cost money to deal with if they're a problem. Small ones or medium can be dealt with either yourself, or a comparatively reasonable price. Pull out the hatchet or chain saw, chop-chop, or rnnnnnn and it's done.

Crownshafted palms' leaves fall away all at once when they're "senescent" (aged out) without clinging and leaving a "skirt" like some palms do. Leaves like that can be very heavy, especially in really large palms. The fallen leaves on "Butch" in the picture weigh about 60 pounds when they fall. They'd break a car's windshield.

Foxtails can get sizeable, but not like Royals. I think they'll be good for your situation.

2002929516_butchanddanny.thumb.jpg.b7c8b613840052242169dc542a5b8341.jpg

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DoomsDave

And, some palms can be flashy like the new leaves on this Flamethrower outside my front door.

 

C57A75B0-3784-49CE-B1AA-80BE74B83060.thumb.jpeg.9c26f03add01bc79aa80609c6895aead.jpeg

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AspiringDana
On 11/15/2021 at 2:34 PM, DoomsDave said:

Have you experienced a southern summer yet? I'm in California, but it can get hot here, too, and houses ill-designed for it can be like furnaces. You may decide a cave might be better, after broiling in a "light and bright" room.

Hello @DoomsDave, Yes! I have experienced many, MANY southern Florida summers and I agree, things can get insanely hot in any home without A/C. I am still waiting to see the effects of the Oak removal on my electric bills. The optimal thing is that I do have lots of shade from Oaks on my tree lined street that throw shade on the house after 4pm-ish depending on the time of year. As I said, I am thrilled to have some nice bright sunshine in my Kitchen.

Edited by AspiringDana
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AspiringDana
On 11/15/2021 at 2:39 PM, DoomsDave said:

And, some palms can be flashy like the new leaves on this Flamethrower outside my front door.

This is absolutely GORGEOUS!! WOW! I don't think I've seen them here in FL, but I could be mistaken. Really pretty!

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn One thing I completely forgot to ask... Today was a rainy day. I am estimating about 1" of rain, maybe a little more. Should I still water the tree for about 30 minutes from the hose running regardless? Thanks for your, or anyone else's help if you're reading this! The tree's fronds are turning brown and I'm worried about the stress.

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redant
28 minutes ago, AspiringDana said:

@Merlyn One thing I completely forgot to ask... Today was a rainy day. I am estimating about 1" of rain, maybe a little more. Should I still water the tree for about 30 minutes from the hose running regardless? Thanks for your, or anyone else's help if you're reading this! The tree's fronds are turning brown and I'm worried about the stress.

foxtails hate overwatering. No water until things dry out

 

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn Oh dear! So I thought they were supposed to be watered every day for the 1st month. I watered well yesterday for 30 minutes. Today it rained most of the day. I definitely can't control the HOA's 3x/week schedule. Can you tell me what are the signs to watch out for that are due to over watering? Thank you!

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redant
6 minutes ago, AspiringDana said:

@Merlyn Oh dear! So I thought they were supposed to be watered every day for the 1st month. I watered well yesterday for 30 minutes. Today it rained most of the day. I definitely can't control the HOA's 3x/week schedule. Can you tell me what are the signs to watch out for that are due to over watering? Thank you!

browning fronds  lay off the hand watering, they will be fine

Edited by redant
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AspiringDana
18 minutes ago, redant said:

browning fronds  lay off the hand watering, they will be fine

Thanks @redant! I guess that's what's happening. I was under the impression that browning fronds meant the plant was dry or the fronds were dying off.

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Merlyn
3 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

This is absolutely GORGEOUS!! WOW! I don't think I've seen them here in FL, but I could be mistaken. Really pretty!

Chambeyronia Macrocarpa is the "Flamethrower" palm, they are slow growing but attention grabbers when each frond opens up!  They look best in some PM shade, and should be totally cold hardy in your area.  Many specialty palm nurseries grow them, but they aren't super common in FL...yet!

Overwatering and underwatering generally look similar, which is why it is hard to diagnose.  My notes on it are: Underwatering is brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color.  I have a couple of foxtails out in the open with a dripper supplying maybe 1 gallon per day.  Near the house are a single and a double that are directly downhill from a downspout, so they get utterly drenched with every daily thunderstorm...maybe hundreds of gallons during each thunderstorm.  And they are 5x the size as the ones out in the open.  So in my experience they tolerate a lot of water.

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn OMG I am kicking myself! I know what I did wrong now. The landscaper/installer watered the tree at the base for about 10-15 minutes. Then, I watered the tree on day 2 for about 30 minutes with the hose pushed into the root ball in a few places. WAY more than 1 gal/day. I honestly have no idea what I was thinking other than I wasn't thinking. :crying:

Thank you again for all of your helpful information. It's rained for 2 days, mostly light rains with a few strong and quick downpours. I'll wait at least a day to let it dry out before putting another gallon on the base.

 

 

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Merlyn

@AspiringDana I didn't mean to suggest that 1 gallon per day was the correct amount, that was for some small 3 gallon sized foxtails that were about 6 feet tall and 3 inches diameter at the base.  I should have mentioned that.  It is probably *way* too little for a large, newly planted palm.  What you did and what the installer did seems reasonable for a big palm.  That's why I and others recommended several 1gph or 2gph drippers, or a couple of bubblers (0-30gph or so) or a couple of mini-fan sprayers (0-10gph or so).  

As far as brown tips go, keep in mind that under- or over-watering signs can take a while to show up.  Underwatering can show fairly quickly, especially on a new planting.  But probably brown tips on your new planting is handling (taking it on and off a truck, laying it on it's side, etc) and wind damage from being on a truck at 70mph on the trip from the nursery.  Those are unavoidable, and just minor cosmetic issues.  Real underwatering would probably take a week or two to be visible, and serious overwatering results in root rot...which might take a month of overwatering to be visible.

So what you and the installer did is probably totally fine.  Just don't bother watering if you got a decent amount of rain the day before.  A good drench a couple of days per week is great.  Whether it comes from rain, hand watering with a hose, or by switching your HOA to a few bubblers/drips/fans doesn't matter too much.  And it is not a big deal if it rains a lot and the HOA sprinkler goes off the same day.  That happens on palms and landscaping in FL all the time.

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D Palm

Foxtails tend to do fine in Florida with no regular supplemental water. Maybe only water if it has been 4 days with no rain in the summer, 6-7 days in the winter if you want to play it safe…after roots have established.  Foxtails do look bad if not regularly fertilized. Other than that, a pretty solid Palm for Orlando and south of.

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AspiringDana
15 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I didn't mean to suggest that 1 gallon per day was the correct amount, that was for some small 3 gallon sized foxtails that were about 6 feet tall and 3 inches diameter at the base.  I should have mentioned that.  It is probably *way* too little for a large, newly planted palm. 

Here is the photo of the palm. It's actually about 1-2 feet shorter than I requested (many things went wrong with this landscape service, including tree placement closer to the house than I requested). I do believe that each trunk is approximately a 3 gallon size according to your description, but I could be wrong. Thanks so much @Merlyn for your reassurances about it all.

Do you think it's far enough away from the house not to cause any damage? 

I would love to fertilize but I thought perhaps it should get established first. If there's something really good to use or do with regard to fertilization I am very open to hearing everyone's thoughts.

Foxtail 11-17-21.jpeg

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AspiringDana
12 hours ago, D Palm said:

Foxtails do look bad if not regularly fertilized.

Thanks @D Palm! Do you have any fertilization advice for the newb here for this newly planted tree clump? (see above photo).

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Johnny Palmseed

Generally speaking, fertilizer should not be applied to a new planting. Did the installer throw any in the ground? Sometimes they do that as part of the service. Also, it would be better to wait until spring anyway. Time release fertilizer could also be applied without great concern. 

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AspiringDana

Also, that fan palm in the above photo (I have no idea what kind it is) has some sort of minuscule bug(s) living underneath the leaves in the crevasses and it's just boring away and eating the poor thing to death. (I googled and it's called "Palm Leaf Skeletonizer." About a year ago I stood underneath it for a few hours and blasted every leaf I could reach with the hose and it did well for a while, until now, they're back again with a vengeance. Anyone have advice on what to do with that? Are we talking about a systemic pesticide situation for that tree? Something topical? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This article says they are beneficial to other beneficial insects that feed on the Skeletonizer, so I can leave it be or hand treat, but does not recommend using any kind of pesticide. I am curious what y'all think about it. http://blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/charlotteco/2019/02/19/beware-but-do-not-fear-the-skeltonizer/

Edited by AspiringDana

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AspiringDana
11 minutes ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Generally speaking, fertilizer should not be applied to a new planting. Did the installer throw any in the ground? Sometimes they do that as part of the service. Also, it would be better to wait until spring anyway. Time release fertilizer could also be applied without great concern. 

@Johnny Palmseed Thank you for that info. Nope, the installer did not throw any in the ground. I did request that he plant the tree in soil and not in Oak tree shreds from the stump removal as he intended. 

For my garden I generally use Jack's/Peters 20-20-20 on my plants and there is some dilution for trees and ornamentals. It's a good fertilizer for plants, but I generally use time release granules designated for Palms plus an added dose of Manganese on them.

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D Palm

I use fertilome root stimulator for new plantings, then after about 3-4 months proper granular fertilizer. The liquid root stimulator will help reduce transplant shock and encourage root development. 

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petiole10

@AspiringDana

I have bought some juvenile Foxtails here in Portugal to hopefully be happy with the southern european climate. Long hot dry summers and cool, sometimes wet winters. Frost is not unknown though generally sub zero temperatures in my location don't happen very often. I haven't kept these palms before, as i used to live in the UK where it would be impossible to grow them - so it will be interesting to see them through the winter. A couple of seedlings were planted in early summer but I didn't get round to ordering slightly larger Foxtails  till the end of summer - though it stays warm and sunny mostly here till well into November to help them get established before winter.

They are irrigated from a bore hole and a well and up till a few weeks back I was watering them every day but with the cooler nights I have reigned back since then. They seem happy enough, along with the Queen palms and small Archontophoenix which are the other less cold hardy palms that are planted out, but as this is the first year I have lived here I am not experienced with the microclimate so am going to be extra cautious over the cooler/colder weeks to come. Daytimes are still in the upper 50's and lower 60's so this offsets some of the colder nights that this week look to get down about 40. Hopefully it then warms up a bit at night from next weekend.

Good luck with your Foxtail - this thread has been an interesting read and also helpful for me to learn a thing or two as well:)

This is one of the tiny seedlings from early summer which has put out a couple of new fronds

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This one is currently being protected from the animals who come past a lot of the time!

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Excuse the leaf mess on the ground in the last picture - the trees are starting to shed leaves finally around these parts!

 

In terms of space, which has been discussed - it could be argued I have planted some of my palms too close to other plants - but i am deliberately looking for ultimately a quite jungly look in some of the garden areas - and which creates natural shade during the hot summer once they have grown further. It will take time, but will be fun watching it all evolve

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AspiringDana
On 11/20/2021 at 7:43 PM, Merlyn said:

A good drench a couple of days per week is great.  Whether it comes from rain, hand watering with a hose, or by switching your HOA to a few bubblers/drips/fans doesn't matter too much.

Welp, this happened yesterday, or technically Sunday night at midnight. :(

I'm pretty sure the stump grinder caused this, either that or it was the weight of the tree root ball being dropped off the truck on top of this pipe. This area was already flagged off by the irrigation company prior to stump grinding and I was only told that the pipes ran directly along side the driveway and sidewalk, not perpendicular to it.

So long story long, This tree will likely get a soaking in the bed due to the broken pipe for the next 3 watering cycles since it's a holiday week and I don't expect it to be repaired this week by the HOA.

Broken Irrigation 11-22-21 1.jpeg

Broken Irrigation 11-22-21 3.jpeg

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Merlyn
5 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

Welp, this happened yesterday, or technically Sunday night at midnight. :(

I'm pretty sure the stump grinder caused this, either that or it was the weight of the tree root ball being dropped off the truck on top of this pipe. This area was already flagged off by the irrigation company prior to stump grinding and I was only told that the pipes ran directly along side the driveway and sidewalk, not perpendicular to it.

So long story long, This tree will likely get a soaking in the bed due to the broken pipe for the next 3 watering cycles since it's a holiday week and I don't expect it to be repaired this week by the HOA.

Whups!  Yeah that happens...  I managed to cut my main irrigation pipe on one side of the driveway, shortly after I had 3 smaller water oaks removed.  It went straight to my well, with NO cutoff valve that I am aware of.  So I had to shut off the well.  Fortunately there was enough space for me to put in one of those sliding patch pipes.  Then about 6 months later I hit then EXACT same pipe on the other side of the driveway.  That made a second sliding patch pipe.  Then a neighbor gave me a 6' tall Pygmy Date, and with the second shovel in the ground I hit it AGAIN!!!  :o  The problem is that the pipe went under the driveway at a weird angle. I have now marked it with a couple of flags and random rocks.

As long as it doesn't wash away the dirt, then it shouldn't be a big problem for your palm.  But definitely try to get it fixed soon to avoid too much sand being washed away from the driveway and palm.  An irrigation company or plumber could cut and cap that in about 2 minutes, just to keep it from causing any damage.

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D Palm

Irrigation systems are a luxury in Florida. When I was stationed in So Cal it is a necessity if you want something besides desertscapee. If it was me I would cap it. I enjoy watering the yard with a garden hose during dry periods.

Edited by D Palm
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petiole10

I have a simple irrigation system of a network of connected plastic hoses with mini-sprinklers set at intervals next to the plants. The sprinklers can be manually adjusted for the flow, so that the trunks of palms don't wet etc. It doesn't look especially aesthetic but it does a good enough job and ensures minimal water wastage from the bore hole. Other than that I am quite happy to use the hose as supplement. which is pumped from the well. as it makes a good routine wander around inspecting the planting areas while its being done.  Sometimes less is more when it comes to sophisticated devices and avoids some of the issues mentioned.

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D Palm

If you observe foxtails in an area that is heavy mulched and/or irrigated, more often they will “lift” their roots and you’ll see the roots coming out of the bottom of the trunk. This is evidence that they do no like to sit in saturated soil and prefer a dry cycle. 

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Merlyn
12 hours ago, D Palm said:

If you observe foxtails in an area that is heavy mulched and/or irrigated, more often they will “lift” their roots and you’ll see the roots coming out of the bottom of the trunk. This is evidence that they do no like to sit in saturated soil and prefer a dry cycle. 

"Adventitious roots" are common in many palm species, and generally considered evidence of a happy palm.  I have a couple of queens in the same super-irrigated area, and they have developed a lot of adventitious roots.  Around the corner in a drier area they are even bigger and more impressive.  I have also seen some Phoenix Sylvestris with adventitious roots at least 2 feet up the trunk!

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