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Ed in Houston

Texas Temps

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Ed in Houston

Here are some temperatures around Texas at 05:30am and 06:00am Monday 2/15/2021. Data from the Weather Underground. South Padre Island at 28. I expect these temperatures to drop another degree or two by dawn or just after.

 

06:00

Dal_FW.jpg.6e27f597317a625d0d0c98e394155b47.jpg

 

SAaust0600.jpg.eb72a5d5d01bc5dd9952131ac925034d.jpg

 

05:30

houst0530.jpg.57308499383f50adb3917a9072dcaaf8.jpg

 

cc0530.jpg.7b55f05b282486414d6966d3f4e10a79.jpg

 

rgv0530.jpg.55b10bf83b69541800b200e49fd88cf7.jpg

Ed in Houston

 

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Jimbean

Now we can get data for freeze damage to zone 10A plants. 

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JJPalmer

South Padre now at 23°.... this is insane.

598C9FB9-9D81-4499-85C9-B9CF13E54C3B.jpeg

0C85C2AC-EBBC-4CDF-BDEF-3A64BFFD5D41.jpeg

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9B3B5327-7CF5-4230-8EFD-733A7005E514.jpeg

3F6220C2-F012-40DB-95CD-01407DFDC91A.jpeg

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Jimbean

Here is parts of Texas, Mexico, and SE Oklahoma. 

Mexico 1.png

Mexico 2.png

sabal minor area.png

snow.png

Texas 1.png

Texas 2.png

Texas 3.png

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DavidLee

I seen on weather underground that Brownville was at 23.7F. Sad to see. I hope things will at least recover. I remember really old Royals around in western parts of Fort Pierce, Florida survive from about those temperatures in 1989. They were totally defoliated afterwards. So that might give some hope for those in Texas.

Edited by DavidLee
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RedRabbit

Currently at one of the SPI stations... As if the temperature weren’t bad enough, notice the wind.    :(
D004149E-2BEA-40C4-BDF2-93350D28C9DF.thumb.png.d4259842eaf62612a54e9eab44a86f81.png


That station actually had a low of 22.8f earlier. The highest low temp I’ve seen in Texas is 24f in Brownsville, has anyone seen something higher?

Edited by RedRabbit
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DavidLee

I thought South Texas was going to escape the worse.

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Jimbean

Kiss the coconuts, and probably all of the royals goodbye all over coastal Texas :(

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redant

Tree guys will be busy for a long time taking down massive amounts of dead trees Terrible news for all palm enthusiasts in TX. Could have been FL if the jet stream was positioned a bit further east. Meanwhile it feels like summer here.

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Jimbean

I looked more closely, and there is a chance that some 10A stuff made it in downtown Brownsville area.  Everything else is toast. 

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Xerarch

Name anywhere else in the world at 26 degrees latitude on the coast that can get that cold

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Jimbean
8 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Name anywhere else in the world at 26 degrees latitude on the coast that can get that cold

Egyptian desert on the red sea?  Maybe SE China.

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palmsOrl
22 hours ago, Jimbean said:

Kiss the coconuts, and probably all of the royals goodbye all over coastal Texas :(

I predict there will not be a single living coconut palm left in Texas.  Sad.

A few royals will make it, but 90% will probably be gone.

-Michael

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Jimbean
Just now, palmsOrl said:

I predict there will not be a single living coconut palm left in Texas.  Sad.

A few royals will make it, but 90% will probably be gone.

-Michael

100% of royals outside of Brownsville, maybe a few within Brownsville can survive. 

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pj_orlando_z9b
21 hours ago, redant said:

Tree guys will be busy for a long time taking down massive amounts of dead trees Terrible news for all palm enthusiasts in TX. Could have been FL if the jet stream was positioned a bit further east. Meanwhile it feels like summer here.

Agree. Florida really lucked out this time.  I think as bad as the TX fallout will be, we will hear a few shocking survivors. Hoping for the best across the south. I feel their pain. 

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palmsOrl
2 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

100% of royals outside of Brownsville, maybe a few within Brownsville can survive. 

Exactly what I was thinking Jim.

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DoomsDave

Waiting for the pictures of the carnage.

Praying for miracles, but not expecting any. :crying:

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RedRabbit
2 hours ago, Jimbean said:

100% of royals outside of Brownsville, maybe a few within Brownsville can survive. 

Here's a street planting of royals in downtown Brownsville:

brownsville.png.74c98071dd9c4190346669b4ef1dc8a6.png

Streetview

Their odds aren't good, but they're worth checking on. Can anyone stop by in about 6 weeks to see if there's new growth?

 

Edited by RedRabbit
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RedRabbit

There's more on the next block over. Note the closest royal pictured below is on the SW side of that building so it would have been shielded from the winds. 

brownsville2.png.0947e7c0954cc8c829712723dff4f7ea.png

Streetview

Edited by RedRabbit
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Xerarch
1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

Waiting for the pictures of the carnage.

Praying for miracles, but not expecting any. :crying:

A miracle would be great, but every Texas gardener knows, or ought to know, what the record books say.  If it happened EVER, it could happen again.  At the same time I agree with the sentiment that you might as well enjoy the wonderful things you can grow for decades between major freezes.

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Xenon

There are thousands and thousands of royals all cross Starr, Hidalgo, and Cameron counties. So there is a pretty big sample size. We'll have to wait and see. 

The tallest royals I know of are on the south side of the Isla Grande Resort on SPI. Also some monsters along the resacas near central Brownsville. 

The tallest coconuts (planted mid 90s?) are in western Brownsville. Not optmistic at all...but miracles do happen 

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mnorell

Royals, when well planted in a hot, humid climate like South Florida or extreme Southern Texas grow from seedling to big tree in no time. In the Florida Keys I had one large juvenile that went from one or two rings of trunk to 20' of clear trunk in seven years, with no irrigation or fertilization to speak of, growing on pure limestone. So don't shed too many tears if most of them go away...a pain to remove but if they replace those with the same species, they will look good in no time. I'm sure it has happened a number of times before, in fact, wasn't it about this cold in those areas in at least some of the bad southern freezes of 96/97/2010/2011? Also I think a number of Roystonea recovered in Central Florida after the 1989 blitzkrieg to about 20F, so perhaps there is hope.

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Xenon
32 minutes ago, mnorell said:

I'm sure it has happened a number of times before, in fact, wasn't it about this cold in those areas in at least some of the bad southern freezes of 96/97/2010/2011? 

The coldest freeze before yesterday and after 1989 was 2011. A good number of coconuts survived that freeze, so 2021 comparatively truly is the guillotine. 

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Exotic Life

This freeze is a landscape changer for you guys. We had recently also a big coldwave since a very long time but that was nothing compared what you are now experiencing.
It is quite bizarre to see those temperatures and snow even near the Gulf.

Edited by Exotic Life
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AnTonY
4 hours ago, Exotic Life said:

This freeze is a landscape changer for you guys. We had recently also a big coldwave since a very long time but that was nothing compared what you are now experiencing.
It is quite bizarre to see those temperatures and snow even near the Gulf.

The polar vortex set up in Canada, allowing cold to drip far south due to being banked up along the Rockies. Then, all it took was a southern-enough upper-level low to finish the job.

If the upper-level low had passed way north, then Texas would not have seen near as much cold as it did this past Monday and Tuesday. The temps last week and into Sunday would have been the coldest tops.

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oasis371

I was just reading that about two weeks ago, there was a "sudden stratospheric over the high arctic", it seems that the "polar vortex" tends to keep the arctic air bottled up at high, subpolar latitudes. When there is less of the temperature contrast between the tropics and the poles, the polar vortex gets weaker and arctic air masses are able to sink south, and south, and south (there are no mountain ranges to prevent the cold, dense arctic air in its descent south (yes, we need a WALL!, to the NORTH!).  This arctic incursion did not have a strong eastern component, so my mid Atlantic yard saw a minimum of 15 f. (though we are hundreds of miles further north).   

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Silas_Sancona
27 minutes ago, oasis371 said:

I was just reading that about two weeks ago, there was a "sudden stratospheric over the high arctic", it seems that the "polar vortex" tends to keep the arctic air bottled up at high, subpolar latitudes. When there is less of the temperature contrast between the tropics and the poles, the polar vortex gets weaker and arctic air masses are able to sink south, and south, and south (there are no mountain ranges to prevent the cold, dense arctic air in its descent south (yes, we need a WALL!, to the NORTH!).  This arctic incursion did not have a strong eastern component, so my mid Atlantic yard saw a minimum of 15 f. (though we are hundreds of miles further north).   

Posted this somewhere else, but will put it here also... here's a great, simplified article regarding how everything came together.. Judah Cohen also puts out a weekly blog update on what is happening over the Arctic, and how what is  happening there may effect everyone down here.



Might still have some gas left in the tank for next month as well...

 

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Xenon

I wonder if there is anywhere else in the world where you can see such a dramatic swing in temperatures...overnight low of 70+ to low 20s in 7 days 

 

mcallenmadness.JPG.cf79ea4ccb636d586b767834f2a9eac5.JPG

Edited by Xenon

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Collectorpalms
59 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I wonder if there is anywhere else in the world where you can see such a dramatic swing in temperatures...overnight low of 70+ to low 20s in 7 days 

 

mcallenmadness.JPG.cf79ea4ccb636d586b767834f2a9eac5.JPG

....College Station, Texas. 80 to 5.
( 75 degrees !!!). I haven’t even checked Dallas or Austin temperature swings.

McAllen, Texas 89 to 22 (  67!!!) 

 

6BE237DD-2850-4F31-94EB-E17BFD7C7477.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms

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GottmitAlex
7 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

....College Station, Texas. 80 to 5.
( 75 degrees !!!).

McAllen, Texas 89 to 22 (  67!!!) 

 

6BE237DD-2850-4F31-94EB-E17BFD7C7477.jpeg

So it is Texas.

My word!

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Collectorpalms

Here is downtown San Antonio weather info, so far. It’s currently snowing and  expecting one more night of near record cold for date.  However. The SA Riverwalk has one of the best microclimates, probably saw warmer temperatures than at street level. Low of 10.6 is still pretty bad. The one queen on the Riverwalk has never even burned in previous freezes since I found it in 2000. 

 

BC115202-B7BE-4B33-8D2A-7C9B6002A37A.jpeg
 

Compare that to the last time SA went below 20, or had 24 hours below freezing.

 

22949C4F-B578-4E00-B58A-25F1AF51A698.jpeg
 

And SA airport officials data this freeze so far:

 

ADACCC05-F90A-4F0A-B348-002EDC17160E.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms

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amh
11 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Here is downtown San Antonio weather info, so far. It’s currently snowing and  expecting one more night of near record cold for date.  However. The SA Riverwalk has one of the best microclimates, probably saw warmer temperatures than at street level. Low of 10.6 is still pretty bad. The one queen on the Riverwalk has never even burned in previous freezes since I found it in 2000. 

 

BC115202-B7BE-4B33-8D2A-7C9B6002A37A.jpeg
 

Compare that to the last time SA went below 20, or had 24 hours below freezing.

 

22949C4F-B578-4E00-B58A-25F1AF51A698.jpeg
 

And SA airport officials data this freeze so far:

 

ADACCC05-F90A-4F0A-B348-002EDC17160E.jpeg

Crazy numbers considering the criminally mild SAInternationals micro climate.

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necturus
On 2/17/2021 at 11:45 PM, Xenon said:

I wonder if there is anywhere else in the world where you can see such a dramatic swing in temperatures...overnight low of 70+ to low 20s in 7 days 

 

mcallenmadness.JPG.cf79ea4ccb636d586b767834f2a9eac5.JPG

China. Didn't Shanghai see record lows this year? I think they are the best climate match for us.

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Xenon
4 minutes ago, necturus said:

China. Didn't Shanghai see record lows this year? I think they are the best climate match for us.

What's incredible is not just the cold but the contrast of potential warmth in winter as well. Shanghai can see low temperatures but would never come close to a 70+ degree overnight low. I don't think even Hong Kong or Hanoi have seen such warm lows in winter...they see less variance due to the Siberian High I think

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Silas_Sancona

For those curious, a couple tweets worth reading related to why areas east of the Rockies are more susceptible to these kinds of Arctic outbreaks, even at relatively lower latitudes, and why while they do happen, why they are much more occasional in CA. :

 

 

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Jeffnparrishfl

Hopefully the royals in downtown Brownsville and along the coast will survive this. Cold weather over after tonight.  in 2010 I believe it was my foxtails died and royals  defoliated.  Just 7 miles away in city portion of palmetto/ Bradenton no damage. Urban heat island effect I assume. Weird thing is had 1 day freeze down to 28 few years ago the royals burned and foxtails not touched. Christmas palms did fine but had them  right up against house. Sorry for the rant. Give it time in texas they may come back. Apply Copper fungicide  in the palm hearts prevent decay for couple weeks. Are Bismarck palms popular in tx, I’d assume from Houston south. I’ve seen them  survive as low as 24 in rural Hillsborough county

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Reyes Vargas
On 2/19/2021 at 1:51 PM, Jeffnparrishfl said:

Hopefully the royals in downtown Brownsville and along the coast will survive this. Cold weather over after tonight.  in 2010 I believe it was my foxtails died and royals  defoliated.  Just 7 miles away in city portion of palmetto/ Bradenton no damage. Urban heat island effect I assume. Weird thing is had 1 day freeze down to 28 few years ago the royals burned and foxtails not touched. Christmas palms did fine but had them  right up against house. Sorry for the rant. Give it time in texas they may come back. Apply Copper fungicide  in the palm hearts prevent decay for couple weeks. Are Bismarck palms popular in tx, I’d assume from Houston south. I’ve seen them  survive as low as 24 in rural Hillsborough county

All the Bismarck that I have seen in the RGV look good and will make it.  Some a little worse than others but they will all make it in my honest opinion.  They are tough palms.

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Sabal_Louisiana

All the Bismarck that I have seen in the RGV look good and will make it.  Some a little worse than others but they will all make it in my honest opinion.  They are tough palms.

I saw a couple north of New Orleans where it got to 21F and they looked alot better than the Sylvesters.

BTW, Any idea how the mango trees did around Brownsville?

And black mangrove (Avicennia germinans)?

We have these in coastal SE La. They thrive but hard freezes, though infrequent, keep them from reaching full size.

 

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Xenon
On 2/24/2021 at 11:00 PM, Sabal_Louisiana said:

And black mangrove (Avicennia germinans)?

Some shots of small black mangrove in this vid: @5:02 @13:24

This study, https://www.watershedecology.org/uploads/1/2/7/3/12731039/osland_et_al._2019-_temperature_thresholds_for_black_mangrove_freeze_damage_mortality_and_recovery.pdf, puts leaf damage threshold for black mangrove at -4*C/~25F. 

 

undamaged Casuarina @ 14.33

 

A Mexican weather station less than 10 miles to the south on the coast (but without the extensive system of bays surrounding SpaceX) briefly dipped to 24.8F and was below 26F for only about an hour and <28F for 4 hours. 

https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/sites/obhistory.php?station=MTAT4&network=MX_TP_DCP&metar=0&madis=0&year=2021&month=2&day=15&sortdir=asc

Tweet from a prominent resident claiming a low of 26F: Also note the sun arriving (iirc, it was cloudy/overcast on South Padre for most of the day)

 

Warmest spot in Texas??

Edited by Xenon
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