2020

[ahosey01]

As everyone knows, 2020 was a crappy year.  Here in the states, the covid stuff in conjunction with the election meant every possible subject was divisive and polarized.

I think it’s really cool that throughout - I’d come and read palmtalk and find a total absence of that.  Throughout the year, I’ve seen photos of gardens and noticed Joe Biden or Donald Trump, Black Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter signs in a small corner of the photo (by virtue of being in front of a home).  I’ve noticed subtle comments that indicate that some people are conservatives and some are liberal.  Some people appear to be afraid of covid, others frustrated more by government measures.

Despite all of this, however, this forum has remained essentially neutral ground.  We are here because we love palms and sharing our information and our passion.  I know that if I don’t want to hear this side or that get riled up about something, and I just want to know more about cool plants I like and other people’s experiences growing them, I can come here to be free from that.  It’s cool that there is this small group of people representing a fraction of the global population who is still cohesive over the things they love rather than the things that piss them off.

This forum, the people who use it and the information contained within has been a real bright spot in an otherwise dark year.

Figured I’d drop this thought here.

[JubaeaMan138]

Great people here . I’ve made some great friends here that I connect with . No matter what our difference in beliefs are we all share one thing in common palm trees . Wishing everyone a merry Christmas . And a palmy new year as well. ! 

[Josue Diaz]

Nothing but the greatest people on here. Grounded and accepting of others, willing to leave aside differences and treat others with respect. Cheers to a better 2021!

[Ben in Norcal]

Great sentiment.  I have noticed one or two remarks that started to walk up to the line, but not cross it.  I am very thankful for this board, and also for my reef aquarium community.

Unfortunately, as a country, I think we've somewhat forgotten that wonderful people, that you would be richer for knowing, can have divergent political views.  And, that even with divergent views, common ground can almost always be found - whether from the standpoint of interest areas, like palms/reef aquariums, or in government policy.

Anyway, love the sentiment and certainly appreciative of learning from all here - folks of all stripes!

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays everyone!

[Josue Diaz]

3 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Great sentiment.  I have noticed one or two remarks that started to walk up to the line, but not cross it.  I am very thankful for this board, and also for my reef aquarium community.

Unfortunately, as a country, I think we've somewhat forgotten that wonderful people, that you would be richer for knowing, can have divergent political views.  And, that even with divergent views, common ground can almost always be found - whether from the standpoint of interest areas, like palms/reef aquariums, or in government policy.

Anyway, love the sentiment and certainly appreciative of learning from all here - folks of all stripes!

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays everyone!

show us your aquascapes! i kept a saltwater tank for a time and a freshwater after that. It's been a few years though, and never any coral (except as substrate and live rock)

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Josue Diaz said:

show us your aquascapes! i kept a saltwater tank for a time and a freshwater after that. It's been a few years though, and never any coral (except as substrate and live rock)

This is my reef tank - 90 gallon. Also just set up a 125 cylinder as a FOWLR tank, and both kids have freshie tanks in their rooms!

[Fusca]

26 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

This is my reef tank - 90 gallon.

That's awesome Ben!  My 30-gal freshwater aquarium has a plastic palm tree rather than cool coral!  Looks like you have stuff to keep you busy indoors as well as out.

[Ben in Norcal]

2 minutes ago, Fusca said:

That's awesome Ben!  My 30-gal freshwater aquarium has a plastic palm tree rather than cool coral!  Looks like you have stuff to keep you busy indoors as well as out.

Haha!  Yes - and another money suck.  I just sprung for a Gemmatum Tang this weekend, which is very rare and endemic to Madagascar, like many of our palms.  That set me back...

[Fusca]

2 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Haha!  Yes - and another money suck.  I just sprung for a Gemmatum Tang this weekend, which is very rare and endemic to Madagascar, like many of our palms.  That set me back...

I guess the kids are getting lottery scratch-offs for gifts this year...

[JohnAndSancho]

This thread is everything. I ditched social media for all of these reasons this year, and I see the bond and camaraderie on here with no politics and no bickering and it's wonderful. 

 

Also, I don't have any aquascapes, but I do have a pretty rad little dog. 

[Josue Diaz]

5 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

This thread is everything. I ditched social media for all of these reasons this year, and I see the bond and camaraderie on here with no politics and no bickering and it's wonderful. 

 

Also, I don't have any aquascapes, but I do have a pretty rad little dog. 

pics to prove it

[ck_in_fla]

13 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Haha!  Yes - and another money suck.  I just sprung for a Gemmatum Tang this weekend, which is very rare and endemic to Madagascar, like many of our palms.  That set me back...

In 1974, a co-worker offered to give me a 20 gallon tank with a couple of paradise fish.  Before this, I had never even thought about keeping an aquarium.  After about 6 months, I had to find a home for my 2 paradise fish as I had gotten the salt water bug.  This hobby grew to a 40 gallon tank, then a 55 gallon tank.  I had a house fire where the fish survived the fire and the actions of the firefighters.  After the fire, during the rebuild of our home, I designed a space for a larger aquarium, a 150 gallon tank with a cherry wood stand and canopy.  Today, it is a live reef with fish tank.  I have the Current brand of programmable LED lighting system.  It mimics sunrise, dawn, midday sun, evening, dusk, sunset and even moonlight.  I have some fish that aren't normally seen in a live reef.  I have had my Emperor Angelfish for many years.  He has grown from a cute juvenile with the concentric white circles against the dark blue background to full adult colors in my tank.  He was about 2 inches long when I got him and currently he is about 7 inches long.  I have some fish that have been in my tank since October of 2006 (more than 14 years).  I have to be careful what varieties of coral I add.  Of course, some corals the Emperor Angelfish would just eat.  I have three very large (6"-7") Pacific Blue Tangs which can bother some corals when they get that large.  I also have a Flameback (pygmy) Angelfish which can also bother some corals.  But, with some careful choices and making sure the fish are well fed, I make it all work.  I have thriving colonies of Pulsing Xenia corals and some other soft corals.  Driving the system is the VarioS-8 DC pump which pumps 2,646 gallons per hour.  Standing in reserve are three Supreme magnetic drive 1,200 gallon per hour pumps.  One of these keeps things running if I have to take the main pump offline for maintenance.  It's been running for over 2 years now and I haven't had to do any maintenance.  But, when the time comes, that is the plan.  I have made conversion PVC fittings to allow this.  I have one of the giant Reef Octopus skimmers that does a great job removing organics from the water.  I have an auto-top off with a 7 gallon vat of fresh water that keeps the specific gravity of the water at 1.026.  I added a 27 gallon refugium with algae and it's own LED lighting system that asp scrubs organics from the water.  Finally, I installed a 22KW Generac whole-house generator last February.  In the event of a power failure, the generator comes on and provides 92 amp service to my home keeping everything (including the aquarium) going until the power comes back on.  I have two 120 gallon propane tanks in the back yard that they say would provide power to my home for 8 to 10 days.  I have signed agreements with two propane suppliers that give me priority once the roads are passable to refuel.  And, I can refuel without having to shut the generator down.  I have attached a picture of my angelfish in the middle stages of changing from juvenile colors to adult colors.  Some of the corals are also visible in the image.  Enjoy!

[ck_in_fla]

Oh, by the way, my local dealer recently had a Gem Tang for sale.  The price was $1,500.00.  Although I am sure that price was negotiable.  :-)

[ck_in_fla]

13 minutes ago, ck_in_fla said:

In 1974, a co-worker offered to give me a 20 gallon tank with a couple of paradise fish.  Before this, I had never even thought about keeping an aquarium.  After about 6 months, I had to find a home for my 2 paradise fish as I had gotten the salt water bug.  This hobby grew to a 40 gallon tank, then a 55 gallon tank.  I had a house fire where the fish survived the fire and the actions of the firefighters.  After the fire, during the rebuild of our home, I designed a space for a larger aquarium, a 150 gallon tank with a cherry wood stand and canopy.  Today, it is a live reef with fish tank.  I have the Current brand of programmable LED lighting system.  It mimics sunrise, dawn, midday sun, evening, dusk, sunset and even moonlight.  I have some fish that aren't normally seen in a live reef.  I have had my Emperor Angelfish for many years.  He has grown from a cute juvenile with the concentric white circles against the dark blue background to full adult colors in my tank.  He was about 2 inches long when I got him and currently he is about 7 inches long.  I have some fish that have been in my tank since October of 2006 (more than 14 years).  I have to be careful what varieties of coral I add.  Of course, some corals the Emperor Angelfish would just eat.  I have three very large (6"-7") Pacific Blue Tangs which can bother some corals when they get that large.  I also have a Flameback (pygmy) Angelfish which can also bother some corals.  But, with some careful choices and making sure the fish are well fed, I make it all work.  I have thriving colonies of Pulsing Xenia corals and some other soft corals.  Driving the system is the VarioS-8 DC pump which pumps 2,646 gallons per hour.  Standing in reserve are three Supreme magnetic drive 1,200 gallon per hour pumps.  One of these keeps things running if I have to take the main pump offline for maintenance.  It's been running for over 2 years now and I haven't had to do any maintenance.  But, when the time comes, that is the plan.  I have made conversion PVC fittings to allow this.  I have one of the giant Reef Octopus skimmers that does a great job removing organics from the water.  I have an auto-top off with a 7 gallon vat of fresh water that keeps the specific gravity of the water at 1.026.  I added a 27 gallon refugium with algae and it's own LED lighting system that asp scrubs organics from the water.  Finally, I installed a 22KW Generac whole-house generator last February.  In the event of a power failure, the generator comes on and provides 92 amp service to my home keeping everything (including the aquarium) going until the power comes back on.  I have two 120 gallon propane tanks in the back yard that they say would provide power to my home for 8 to 10 days.  I have signed agreements with two propane suppliers that give me priority once the roads are passable to refuel.  And, I can refuel without having to shut the generator down.  I have attached a picture of my angelfish in the middle stages of changing from juvenile colors to adult colors.  Some of the corals are also visible in the image.  Enjoy!

I dug out an older picture showing the same Emperor Angelfish with his juvenile pattern.  I will try to get a current picture later today.

[JohnAndSancho]

5 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

pics to prove it

His name is Sancho, and he absolutely is a sancho. Found him in a county shelter 7 years ago. 

[ck_in_fla]

2 hours ago, ck_in_fla said:

I dug out an older picture showing the same Emperor Angelfish with his juvenile pattern.  I will try to get a current picture later today.

Here is a current image showing the entire aquarium.  Featured prominently is my Emperor Angelfish in full adult colors.  Also, I opened the cabinet doors so you can see the elaborate filtration system featuring the Eshoppes sump with dual 200 micron filter bags.  Some of the corals are also visible.

[Darold Petty]

I had an 80 gallon salt tank in the 1980's.  It was much more difficult to manage the water chemistry then.   Congratulations for your very beautiful set-up.  

[Ben in Norcal]

7 hours ago, ck_in_fla said:

Oh, by the way, my local dealer recently had a Gem Tang for sale.  The price was $1,500.00.  Although I am sure that price was negotiable.  :-)

I just picked up the Gem Tang for $399, which is actually a screaming deal.

[Ben in Norcal]

And here is the 125 cylinder I just set up in my bedroom. This one is going to be a FOWLR, not a reef.

 

[ck_in_fla]

54 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I just picked up the Gem Tang for $399, which is actually a screaming deal.

That is a fantastic price for that fish.  And, from what I read, they are just as hardy as a Yellow Tang or a Sailfin Tang.  My Sailfin tang has been in the tank for more than 14 years.  Also, I have a Yellow Tang that has been in there over 10 years.  Both are really hardy as long as you keep the water quality good and feed them the right foods.

[ck_in_fla]

53 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

And here is the 125 cylinder I just set up in my bedroom. This one is going to be a FOWLR, not a reef.

 

That is a gorgeous tank!  The live rock really helps keep the water quality good.  Right now, the only real filtration I have is the live rock and the skimmer.  I do plan to add a biological reactor inline at some point.

[Ben in Norcal]

10 minutes ago, ck_in_fla said:

That is a fantastic price for that fish.  And, from what I read, they are just as hardy as a Yellow Tang or a Sailfin Tang.  My Sailfin tang has been in the tank for more than 14 years.  Also, I have a Yellow Tang that has been in there over 10 years.  Both are really hardy as long as you keep the water quality good and feed them the right foods.

Yeah - I never thought I would own one of these fish, but at that price, I had to pull the trigger.  I will admit beers were involved in the decision-making. 

[Cindy Adair]

Beautiful fish tanks, cute dog and lovely sentiments.

I enjoy the friends I have met on PT and the friendly atmosphere here. 

Of course the information and plant photos and international flavor add to the enjoyment.

We even managed to raise money for saving Tahina spectabilis too.

PT has been another place of refuge in a difficult year!

[Jubaea_James760]

Beautiful aquariums Gentlemen! I use to have a 125 gallon (carnivorous) fresh water tank. Fish like Pacu's, Oscar's, Jack Dempsey, (South American Cichlids) & Senegal bichir's or (Dinosaur eels). I was actually just talking to my wife last week on how much I miss it . I also had a 55 gallon i used for breeding purposes.  I could sit in front of it for hours. Perfect way to unwind the day. 

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Ben in Norcal]

16 minutes ago, James760 said:

Beautiful aquariums Gentlemen! I use to have a 125 gallon (carnivorous) fresh water tank. Fish like Pacu's, Oscar's, Jack Dempsey, (South American Cichlids) & Senegal bichir's or (Dinosaur eels). I was actually just talking to my wife last week on how much I miss it . I also had a 55 gallon i used for breeding purposes.  I could sit in front of it for hours. Perfect way to unwind the day. 

Merry Christmas everyone!

Well, since you asked, here’s my son’s 55 - a Lake Malawi ecotype. I just cleaned it (rainy day in NorCal) so it’s a little cloudy!

 

[Jubaea_James760]

Beautiful! I have to stop looking at your guys aquariums before I do an impulse purchase 

 

[DoomsDave]

I’ve been in the palm society since the early nineties and have haunted Palm Talk almost from the beginning.

We’ve managed to cohere in spite of our often deep differences for all those decades.

Such a wonderful privilege to have had the chance to know you, share seeds, plants and stories with you, and to look forward to continuing to do so.

[ahosey01]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:00 PM, DoomsDave said:

I’ve been in the palm society since the early nineties and have haunted Palm Talk almost from the beginning.

We’ve managed to cohere in spite of our often deep differences for all those decades.

Such a wonderful privilege to have had the chance to know you, share seeds, plants and stories with you, and to look forward to continuing to do so.

The early nineties! Back when I wasn’t even in elementary school! Lol

[sonoranfans]

Social mdia platorms aggravate our differences and its done purposely using neuroscience.  AI algorithms track everything you respond to and identify what aggravates people and gets maximum participation/responses in these on line arguments.  And then that becomes the dominant part of your news feed and the emails you get from those you dont know.  I tested this by supporting one position and then the opposite position and watching the change in my news feed on FB.  It takes a few weeks but its kind of scary to see how they program you to be polarized.   I deactivated FB after seeing what it did and watching other people get divided in fear and hate.  "Fact checking" is anything but "facts", but lots of people believe what they hear.  The same media that agitates people owns the fact check publishers so its about propaganda and control for both sides.   None of this manipulation happens here on PT as the content is all about palms and the moderators make sure that it is.  Politics has become a kind of religion for many americans, and religion is the ultimate divider.  People are so connected to social media and social media actually makes lots of money by manipulating people.  Social media giants are the new big oil, they dominate wallstreet, pay minimal taxes, and are hardly regulated.  There is a good documentary on netflix "the social dilemma" where some of the founders of these platforms tell you how its done and are now out warning people about the insidious nature of these platforms.  The platforms are recording every response you make on issues and how long it takes you to respond(short time=strong emotion).  Neuroscience is being used on people all the time on line.  If you want to mess them up, just agree with what you dont like and also what you do like and the algorithm kind of loses its mind.  I put thumbs up on every pro trump and every pro biden story and after a few weeks my news feed went to a small trickle, gutted the political content of it.   But they will adapt the algorithm to even this by looking at data history eventually.  But you can take away their power, person by person by agreeing with both sides of agruments..  

[PalmatierMeg]

6 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Social mdia platorms aggravate our differences and its done purposely using neuroscience.  AI algorithms track everything you respond to and identify what aggravates people and gets maximum participation/responses in these on line arguments.  And then that becomes the dominant part of your news feed and the emails you get from those you dont know.  I tested this by supporting one position and then the opposite position and watching the change in my news feed on FB.  It takes a few weeks but its kind of scary to see how they program you to be polarized.   I deactivated FB after seeing what it did and watching other people get divided in fear and hate.  "Fact checking" is anything but "facts", but lots of people believe what they hear.  The same media that agitates people owns the fact check publishers so its about propaganda and control for both sides.   None of this manipulation happens here on PT as the content is all about palms and the moderators make sure that it is.  Politics has become a kind of religion for many americans, and religion is the ultimate divider.  People are so connected to social media and social media actually makes lots of money by manipulating people.  Social media giants are the new big oil, they dominate wallstreet, pay minimal taxes, and are hardly regulated.  There is a good documentary on netflix "the social dilemma" where some of the founders of these platforms tell you how its done and are now out warning people about the insidious nature of these platforms.  The platforms are recording every response you make on issues and how long it takes you to respond(short time=strong emotion).  Neuroscience is being used on people all the time on line.  If you want to mess them up, just agree with what you dont like and also what you do like and the algorithm kind of loses its mind.  I put thumbs up on every pro trump and every pro biden story and after a few weeks my news feed went to a small trickle, gutted the political content of it.   But they will adapt the algorithm to even this by looking at data history eventually.  But you can take away their power, person by person by agreeing with both sides of agruments..  

Wise, wise, wise. I have no social media presence but PT and use my phone only to make necessary calls and play word games. No Twitter, Instagram, Snap Shot, yadda yadda. I refused to join FB when Mark Zuckerberg said nobody in the US was entitled to privacy. I decided he would have to track me down to infringe on mine. I'm amazed how people cough up every thought in their heads into cyberspace where it will circulate and be snickered over till the end of time. And they love to do it until the wife, husband, employer, cops, IRS track them down.

[Xenon]

Love palmtalk and the forum format in general. Posts and replies here are generally much more polished than what you'd see in many social media comment sections.

It's a bit sad that a lot of hobby forums are not as active as they once were (many have shutdown over the years). Social media is kind of a double edged sword with regards to palms and niche hobbies in general. There is a lot more total content on reddit and FB groups but most of it is generally low effort/quality with the same few questions regurgitated and rehashed ad infinitum so you really have to be selective to find higher quality content. The age demographic also skews younger (vs older on many forums like palmtalk) and overall there seems to be a growing generational disconnect on the Web. 

I joined in 2010 after a bit of lurking and have spent nearly half of my life browsing palmtalk (I'm 23); it's been bittersweet seeing the people that come and go, but I expect to be here as long as it stays open. Long live quality content and long live palmtalk!

[Kim]

I've been here long enough to remember more contentious days, but that was put behind us. And all for the best. When more women became involved, we changed the tone a few degrees, as in many arenas. It is truly gratifying, heartening to see so many feel this is a place to share everything about palms, without need for schisms to intrude. Who doesn't love  a fresh Chambeyronia frond? It's good to see people appreciating the commonalities we have, rather than hammering at our differences. A happy change of year to all! We have palms to tend to.

[ck_in_fla]

17 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Wise, wise, wise. I have no social media presence but PT and use my phone only to make necessary calls and play word games. No Twitter, Instagram, Snap Shot, yadda yadda. I refused to join FB when Mark Zuckerberg said nobody in the US was entitled to privacy. I decided he would have to track me down to infringe on mine. I'm amazed how people cough up every thought in their heads into cyberspace where it will circulate and be snickered over till the end of time. And they love to do it until the wife, husband, employer, cops, IRS track them down.

I, too, refuse to play the Social Media game.  I constantly remind my adult children that if something is free, then YOU are the product.  These days, employers constantly check the social media presence of prospective employees.  And, they keep tabs on existing employees.  There are documented instances of people losing their jobs because of their political beliefs.  Most people don't even see the censorship demonstrated by Social Media.  They definitely have their beliefs and have done their best to censor anything that doesn't support those beliefs.  I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinions, whether they agree with mine or not.  And, I think censorship of any kind is wrong.

This is why I appreciate PT.  Here, people of all walks of life openly share knowledge and opinions.  How refreshing!  Everyone here should be commended for providing content and exhibiting tolerance.

[Darold Petty]

Also, credit must be given to our Moderator, Dean Ouer.  He has been diligent, hard working and extremely even handed in the administration of this site.  The few instances of inappropiate content have been quickly removed.

Mahalo, Dean !  

[PalmatierMeg]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

Also, credit must be given to our Moderator, Dean Ouer.  He has been diligent, hard working and extremely even handed in the administration of this site.  The few instances of inappropiate content have been quickly removed.

Mahalo, Dean !  

Amen to that

[Cindy Adair]

I totally agree.

[DoomsDave]

Yes, hooray for @PALM MOD aka @Dypsisdean!

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

19 hours ago, Xenon said:

I joined in 2010 after a bit of lurking and have spent nearly half of my life browsing palmtalk (I'm 23)

Wait so you joined at 23 or have been on palmtalk since you were 13 ? If your 23 i have mad respect for attention to detail of the palms in our area. You are very well informed in all things palms, your experience with certain palms hardiness in South Houston is amazing, my hats off to you sir. 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wait so you joined at 23 or have been on palmtalk since you were 13 ? If your 23 i have mad respect for attention to detail of the palms in our area. You are very well informed in all things palms, your experience with certain palms hardiness in South Houston is amazing, my hats off to you sir. 

I joined 2 months after I turned 12, definitely caught the palm bug early haha. I had much more time back then to really just obsess over everything palm related. Wish I had photos of all of the amazing mature stuff that was here before the freezes in 2010 and 2011. Fingers crossed we have another string of mild winters. 

(Like a lot of people in this thread?) My first obsession was marine aquariums and koi. I spent hours "window shopping" on koi auction pages long before I knew how to send an email. 

[Ben in Norcal]

12 hours ago, Xenon said:

I joined 2 months after I turned 12, definitely caught the palm bug early haha. I had much more time back then to really just obsess over everything palm related. Wish I had photos of all of the amazing mature stuff that was here before the freezes in 2010 and 2011. Fingers crossed we have another string of mild winters. 

(Like a lot of people in this thread?) My first obsession was marine aquariums and koi. I spent hours "window shopping" on koi auction pages long before I knew how to send an email. 

LOL...I have a Koi pond and a goldfish pond as well.  Spent endless hours on Koiphen as well!