Another one bites the dust !

[Darold Petty]

I purchased this Howea forsteriana with variegation on February 27th 1999 at the SoCal Palm Society meeting in Ventura as a small 1-gallon plant about 16 inches tall.  I ground planted it on March 23rd, 2003.

  A few years ago it suffered spear pull from fungus decay.  I was able to save it by regular applications of 3% Hydrogen peroxide.  It recovered very slowly, with small, stunted fronds that gradually became larger.   However, in its weakened condition and with a large acccumulation of leafbases rot became established and damaged the trunk.  The damage shown is completely around the circumference  of the trunk.

(The lesson here is that one must be more diligent when the palm is in a poor condition.)

  I will remove this palm, but due to the very small size of my garden I must plant the replacement palm (20 gallon pot size) in the very same spot.  I am concerned about decay of the original palms roots infecting the roots of the replacement palm

  Your thoughts please, can I install the replacement palm immediately in the same hole, or should I fill the 20 gallon hole and wait a period of time ?  How long if I do wait ?  Thanks

(I should have used my shears as a reference, this palm is about 10 inches diameter at the soil line.)

[The Gerg]

Well bummer. I don’t really know the answer to your question, but I’m one who always throws caution to the wind as I’m impatient. Hopefully somebody can give you actual advice though. Whatcha replacing it with?

 

[Phoenikakias]

I would spread a lot of sulphur in to the hole and leave it open until next spring.

[Phoenikakias]

I have planted in a couple of instances new palms in place of removed but healthy ones. That is a Jubaeopsis caffra in place of a Phoenix hybrid and two Chambeyronia hookeri in place of an Arenga pinnata. Much of the root mass of previous palms had remained in the soil, and especially in the case of the Phoenix hybrid it was impossible even to dig a big hole. I have not had any issues up to now.

[Darold Petty]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:05 PM, The Gerg said:

Well bummer. I don’t really know the answer to your question, but I’m one who always throws caution to the wind as I’m impatient. Hopefully somebody can give you actual advice though. Whatcha replacing it with?

 

I will just install a replacement Howea forsteriana.  I have several in that section of my garden and I hope to live long enough to have an enclosed space beneath a 'roof' of Howea foliage. 

[oasis371]

I have to grow Howea as an indoor/outdoor palm as my winters are 7a.  This is one of my favorite palms in general and on my short list for favorite indoor palms.  I lost one last February as I decided it needed more root space so I added soil to the bottom of the pot and it suddenly went into decline.  I have since read that they are somewhat sensitive to excessive moisture in the cooler months (when they prefer to be on the drier side).  I have since replaced that one with four tiny ones which actually grew more than I expected over the Spring-Summer outside, and summers can be monsoonal here, so summer wet is not as much an issue. I know people frequently grow them in clusters, but feel they do better solo.  Good luck with the replacement!

[Tracy]

On 9/28/2020 at 11:49 AM, Darold Petty said:

Your thoughts please, can I install the replacement palm immediately in the same hole, or should I fill the 20 gallon hole and wait a period of time ?  How long if I do wait ?  Thanks

Darold I have  had mixed results with replanting in the spot I lost another palm to disease.  I lost a couple of Rhopalostylis consecutively planted in one spot before I got "Lucky" with the third planting in the same spot with no waiting in between.  So one might say after losing the first and the soil was potentially containing the pathogen that killed the first, I was batting 50% with the replacements.  I didn't do anything to treat the soil back then.  I had another spot that I had a group planting of 3 Howea f.  and lost one of the trunks to pink rot.  I dug it up and planted a cycad there, but transplanted the two remaining Howeas to my new garden.  No problems with the cycad in the old spot and initially no problems with the Howea.  About 3 years later, I ended up moving my fence forward a little bit, which meant the Howeas needed to be dug and moved, so they went into the backyard.  They didn't like being dug again, and one developed deformed leaves while the smaller one just slowed down.  The larger one fought with black mold, mealy bugs despite my best efforts to bring it back the spear eventually pulled.  I removed the larger one, leaving the last of the original triple planting.  It never recovered was growing slow, had the same battles as the next to last, so I finally dug it up and disposed of it before an infection was apparent and planted a Ravenea julietiae in it's spot.  The Ravenea has done well in the spot, despite my never putting out down any anti-fungal in the soil.  I had tried treating both the Howea's in that spot with Copper sulfate when they were still alive, along with topical treatments to eliminate the mealy bugs, black mold and something to get rid of the ants that plagued them.  Perhaps the treatments I did for the Howeas "pre-treated" the spot for the Ravenea.  Bottom line, I had mixed results with planting and not treating.  If you have the time, I would follow Phoenikakias  advice.  If you don't have a lot of patience at least treat and wait a few weeks to replant.  If you don't already have the Howea, it would give you an opportunity to stage it nearby to acclimate to your garden.

[Darold Petty]

Thanks Tracy, that's very helpful. 

My latest thought is to remove the damaged one now, down to just below the soil line.  Then wait until next spring for ground planting.  I have purchased the replacement palm and will position it over the spot now.  I also recognized that I can shift this replacement palm sideways about 24 inches and then install a second, smaller Howea as well.

  I am going for the full' Ralph Velez' in this corner of the garden !  

[Briank]

Baloo Says Go Ahead And Plant Away !  He will help you Dig Away and if Palm is big enough he will lay under it for shade ! 

[Darold Petty]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:19 PM, Phoenikakias said:

I would spread a lot of sulphur in to the hole and leave it open until next spring.

Yes, I will do this also.

[Darold Petty]

Warning, graphic images !

I removed this damaged palm yesterday.  The lesson here is to be very observant to all aspects of a compromised palm.  While I was focused on the spear pull/hydrogen peroxide issue, the palm in its weakened conditon was vulnerable to a secondary issue, fungal rot amid all the bunched up leafbases.    

[lzorrito]

7 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

The lesson here is to be very observant to all aspects of a compromised palm.  While I was focused on the spear pull/hydrogen peroxide issue, the palm in its weakened conditon was vulnerable to a secondary issue, fungal rot amid all the bunched up leafbases.    

 

I am registering and learning.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it's the third time it happens to me(potted H. forsteriana), and the padron is that it occurs on late summer when high and constant moisture levels suddenly rise after a period of deep dry weather.  The decay is also sudden...so the fungal issue does remain both on soil and palm,  regardless of all previous treatments using systemic fungicide.

One I couldn't save because it decayed very quickly, leaf bases roted in just one day. I probably wasn't paying the correct attention, both were weakened but I tough they were cured, they looked like...!

I repotted the remaining one in coarse coco coir/chips and perlite, only. I also used H2O2 on the new spear, trunk and roots. I let the soil dry and extended the watering schedule. 

We'll see how it goes during Winter...

[DoomsDave]

@Darold Petty ouch, dang, that hurts to look at.

Diseases are expletives piled on expletives, but they're species specific, or at least plant group specific.

I really think you'll be sacrificing another Howea in that exact spot.

Mindful of your goal of canopy overhead, unlike the Rhopies of Doom, with their war-club falling leaves, but maybe just plant something else, and get the canopy you can from what remains?

Maybe find a nice, high-altitude cool-loving cycad to put in that spot? I'll bet disease won't be a problem for a cycad,  at least not palm diseases.

Just a thought!

[Darold Petty]

Thanks, Dave