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Jan Jo

Second garden in Cadiz

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Jan Jo

Hi!

I'm in the very lucky position to be able to design and plant a palm garden where I work, about half an hour away from where I live (and where my main palm garden is).. 

Luckily, my workplace is in a town by the coast, the garden is far better protected from both the cold north winter winds and the drying hot easterly winds which are the bane of my main home garden. Plus the soil is far better... 

I've planted a number of palms which I had in pots at home, they've been in the ground for about six months and are already growing faster and looking far better than many of my home palms... 

Thought I'd share a couple of pics... 

IMG_20200901_190527_copy_1000x750.jpg.5247cbded8548f5c08f0e516c9efee85.jpg

From right to left: Dypsis Lutescens, Pritchardia Hildebrandii and a Ravenala (which would look terrible in my home garden due to the wind). 

IMG_20200901_190544_copy_1000x750.jpg.458c1f36f61db0333327b38b30e0d071.jpg

Only palm here is a Chambeyronia Macrocarpa, and a coffee plant to the left... 

IMG_20200901_190612_copy_1000x750.jpg.afe3a7eb3036da9a5bd9ecdf1a35617f.jpg

Hyophorbe verschaffelti and Dyctiosperma Album Rubrum (mango in the middle) 

IMG_20200901_190559_copy_1000x750.jpg.a782d8e08fa8ecf0ae9a0c3cd6e8ddb7.jpg

Wodyetia Bifurcata, growing fast. 

IMG_20200901_190625_copy_1000x750.jpg.cc6752124b08e0691e850376ce00fc02.jpg

Left to right: Veitchia Joannis (without doubt my showcase palm, and impossible in my home garden), Veitchia Arecina (damaged but recovering from drying out following transplant) and Pritchardia Lowreyana. Papaya in the middle has gone crazy! 

IMG_20200901_181322_copy_1000x1333.thumb.jpg.444c87eabf26be9a5bf862733dbd546f.jpg

IMG_20200901_181302_copy_1000x1333.thumb.jpg.5a1530a6e3954ab410fe69df0337390d.jpg

Two more of the Veitchia Joannis (which I picked up a year ago), fingers crossed it will do ok in this microclimate, it's protected by the south facing wall, gets full day sun... Here's hoping, let's see how it goes...

Hope you like the pics ;)

J

IMG_20200901_181249_copy_1000x1333.jpg

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Fusca
34 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

mango in the middle

Has a nice ring to it...

Very nice plantings and everything looks great!  Keep up the good work - I'm sure they'll continue thrive as long as you're able to care for them.  Perhaps a few are too close to the wall and/or close to each other but it will be a while before that becomes apparent and should provide a nice 'jungle look'.

Jon

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Jan Jo
2 hours ago, Fusca said:

Has a nice ring to it...

Very nice plantings and everything looks great!  Keep up the good work - I'm sure they'll continue thrive as long as you're able to care for them.  Perhaps a few are too close to the wall and/or close to each other but it will be a while before that becomes apparent and should provide a nice 'jungle look'.

Jon

Thanks Jon!

No doubt you're right about them being too close together... And I'd like to fit more in, probably any zone pushing seedlings I get my hands on and don't dare plant at home ;)

J

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lzorrito
4 hours ago, Jan Jo said:

Two more of the Veitchia Joannis (which I picked up a year ago), fingers crossed it will do ok in this microclimate, it's protected by the south facing wall, gets full day sun... Here's hoping, let's see how it goes...

I've also got a protected south facing wall. It's where my H. lagenicaulis, H. verscheffeltii, Latania lontaroides, and others are thriving. Now that I see you are growing Veitchia Joannis...:drool:!!! It makes me wonder...should I?? Keep us updated @Jan Jo!

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palmfriend

Jan Jo,

congrats to your new garden!!

V. joannis are definitely rocking - all the best with yours!

Here are my ones, now five years from seed...

kim001.thumb.jpg.e7a73aba63cd0bd9d296d2faf3c147c4.jpg

V. arecina, winin, spiralis and metiti are already on the way... :D

Veitchias are definitely worth a try!!

best regards from Okinawa

Lars

 

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Jan Jo
17 hours ago, lzorrito said:

I've also got a protected south facing wall. It's where my H. lagenicaulis, H. verscheffeltii, Latania lontaroides, and others are thriving. Now that I see you are growing Veitchia Joannis...:drool:!!! It makes me wonder...should I?? Keep us updated @Jan Jo!

I will definitely keep you posted.. You have H. Lagenicaulis and Latania planted outdoors in Portugal?? And they are thriving??! Wow!!

Would love to see pics if you can direct me to any threads where you have posted them ;) I would have thought bottle palm is more cold tender than Veitchia Joannis... ? 

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Jan Jo
1 hour ago, palmfriend said:

Jan Jo,

congrats to your new garden!!

V. joannis are definitely rocking - all the best with yours!

Here are my ones, now five years from seed...

kim001.thumb.jpg.e7a73aba63cd0bd9d296d2faf3c147c4.jpg

V. arecina, winin, spiralis and metiti are already on the way... :D

Veitchias are definitely worth a try!!

best regards from Okinawa

Lars

 

Amazing Lars! I'm a big fan of Veitchia... How are you finding Winin, Spiralis and Metiti? Or do you mean they are on their way to you? 

I think I can get hold of seedlings of those three here but assumed they'd be even more tender than Joannis so I wasn't going to try.. But it's tempting... 

J

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Tracy
56 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

You have H. Lagenicaulis and Latania planted outdoors in Portugal?? And they are thriving??! Wow!!

My guess is that the south facing wall provides plenty of heat for them, and he is in the southeast of Portugal, which doesn't look that far away from Cadiz.  I know that the south facing wall adjacent to my Hyophorbe lagenicaulis has kept it alive for over a decade where I wouldn't have expected it to otherwise survive.

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lzorrito
54 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

I will definitely keep you posted.. You have H. Lagenicaulis and Latania planted outdoors in Portugal?? And they are thriving??! Wow!!

Would love to see pics if you can direct me to any threads where you have posted them ;) I would have thought bottle palm is more cold tender than Veitchia Joannis... ? 

Oh, they are not planted yet! Sorry if you understood that...:blush: Still potted, but outside. Their growth rate is surprising me. Also got a H. indica on more exposed spot, and that one is a winer.image.thumb.jpeg.def89136593a727876f781a54b2ba4a7.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.b2a80cfc2d294b17afa9d343df3729bd.jpeg

There's a negleted H. Lagenicaulis in the ground near by, unprotected from N and E winter winds. It looks raty but it has survived some winters.

2 minutes ago, Tracy said:

My guess is that the south facing wall provides plenty of heat for them, and he is in the southeast of Portugal, which doesn't look that far away from Cadiz.  I know that the south facing wall adjacent to my Hyophorbe lagenicaulis has kept it alive for over a decade where I wouldn't have expected it to otherwise survive.

That's right, from here 74 miles in a straight line directly to Cadiz, by sea. We both stand on the opposites of Cadiz Bay.

Besides from its N winds protection my pateo is also protected from NE and E cold dry winter winds. It faces from S till W, at sea side and sea level. SW winds are always mild during winter, it brings some heat from the ocean (winter min sea water temp around 58 F).  Of course, the walls tend to stores heat during the day and free it later, I useb it as vantage point. Here, where I live, minimal temp very rarely drops below the lower 40s F.  But, two/three miles inland you get 33/31F, just a 5 minutes drive... I experience that every winter. We may probably say there's a microclimate on my patio.

Btw, the southeast of Portugal, by the sea, where I live, is rated as USDA zone 10B https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-portugal-plant-hardiness-zone-map-celsius.php

Cadiz is rated as USDA zone 10a https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-spain-plant-hardiness-zone-map-celsius.php

 

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Jan Jo
4 hours ago, Tracy said:

My guess is that the south facing wall provides plenty of heat for them, and he is in the southeast of Portugal, which doesn't look that far away from Cadiz.  I know that the south facing wall adjacent to my Hyophorbe lagenicaulis has kept it alive for over a decade where I wouldn't have expected it to otherwise survive.

 

3 hours ago, lzorrito said:

Oh, they are not planted yet! Sorry if you understood that...:blush: Still potted, but outside. Their growth rate is surprising me. Also got a H. indica on more exposed spot, and that one is a winer.image.thumb.jpeg.def89136593a727876f781a54b2ba4a7.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.b2a80cfc2d294b17afa9d343df3729bd.jpeg

There's a negleted H. Lagenicaulis in the ground near by, unprotected from N and E winter winds. It looks raty but it has survived some winters.

That's right, from here 74 miles in a straight line directly to Cadiz, by sea. We both stand on the opposites of Cadiz Bay.

Besides from its N winds protection my pateo is also protected from NE and E cold dry winter winds. It faces from S till W, at sea side and sea level. SW winds are always mild during winter, it brings some heat from the ocean (winter min sea water temp around 58 F).  Of course, the walls tend to stores heat during the day and free it later, I useb it as vantage point. Here, where I live, minimal temp very rarely drops below the lower 40s F.  But, two/three miles inland you get 33/31F, just a 5 minutes drive... I experience that every winter. We may probably say there's a microclimate on my patio.

Btw, the southeast of Portugal, by the sea, where I live, is rated as USDA zone 10B https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-portugal-plant-hardiness-zone-map-celsius.php

Cadiz is rated as USDA zone 10a https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-spain-plant-hardiness-zone-map-celsius.php

 

Wow! I really thought from reading the Palms for California guide that Hyophorbe lagenicaulis was eventually doomed in our (Iberian) / your (Californian) climates.. But I see I was wrong. I must be more daring now I have a decent microclimate! 

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lzorrito
1 hour ago, Jan Jo said:

Wow! I really thought from reading the Palms for California guide that Hyophorbe lagenicaulis was eventually doomed in our (Iberian) / your (Californian) climates.. But I see I was wrong. I must be more daring now I have a decent microclimate! 

That's what I'm doing now, daring and pushing it till the limit of survivability. I want to know the edge here with my growth conditions.

When I realized that my Archontophoenix maxima and A. alexandrae just loved it here and were pulling spears all year round I decided to take a step further and dared to grow some "on the edge" palms. I now got like some 4 different growth spots on my patio, full sun; half sun; filtered; dry side; wet side; under canopy; no canopy, and I'm learning how to use them and what I grow on each one.

I'm now growing (trying :huh:) from seedling: Areca trianda; Burretiokentia koghiensis; Dypsis arenarum (from seed); D. dransfieldii; D. fibrosa; D. lanceolota; D. carlsmithii; Dictyosperma album rubrum; Veitchia spiralis, and some others that "by the book" are very marginal palms around here and also there in Cadiz.

This will be their first winter here:crying:...we'll see!  I´ll keep you updated. 

I'm also waiting for Gaussia maya,; G. gomez-pompae, and Carpentaria acuminata.

That spot where you planted Veitchia joannis seems very promising indeed. Do dare!!

Edited by lzorrito
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Tracy
14 hours ago, lzorrito said:

That's what I'm doing now, daring and pushing it till the limit of survivability. I want to know the edge here with my growth conditions.

I think it's worth a try in that while the general climate there may not be ideal for the species you outlined, your micro-climate close to the Ocean and orientation to prevailing cold winter winds, may be what is needed for them to survive in the longer term.  Give them a little protection while small and let them grow into more exposure.  If it weren't for some of the early zone pushers in every region, we wouldn't really know some of the marginal plants that can grow in our climates.  It's your opportunity to demonstrate what can survive in the coastal Southeastern Portugal micro-climate.

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lzorrito
34 minutes ago, Tracy said:

I think it's worth a try in that while the general climate there may not be ideal for the species you outlined, your micro-climate close to the Ocean and orientation to prevailing cold winter winds, may be what is needed for them to survive in the longer term.  Give them a little protection while small and let them grow into more exposure.  If it weren't for some of the early zone pushers in every region, we wouldn't really know some of the marginal plants that can grow in our climates.  It's your opportunity to demonstrate what can survive in the coastal Southeastern Portugal micro-climate.

Thank you for your support! People here just want to grow cold hardy low maintenance palm trees...

The seedlings are on South facing warm and wind protected spot, surrounded by walls. They are under a double canopy, from a pergola, and the larger palms canopy. They also take some soft filtered morning sun.

IMG_20200903_150713.thumb.jpg.ba3e9549a2b496bc167bff7d783b7e77.jpg

The seedlings are under this canopy.

 

IMG_20200903_152604.thumb.jpg.288a53cf5865393604b4790ffb6a5dbb.jpg

The spot.

@Jan Jo, sorry for this kind of thread takeover...but I think it has a lot to do the topic.

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Antti

Great topic, very interesting.

Will Pritchardia pacifica grow there? And what about Carpentaria acuminata?

Edited by Antti
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lzorrito
4 hours ago, Antti said:

Great topic, very interesting.

Will Pritchardia pacifica grow there? And what about Carpentaria acuminata?

Pritchardia pacifica should be almost impossible here due to low air moisture, but on the right spot...who knows??

I'm going to try Carpentaria acuminata. Waiting for it in a week time. We'll see:huh:. Fingers crossed!

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Jan Jo
On 9/3/2020 at 12:06 AM, lzorrito said:

That's what I'm doing now, daring and pushing it till the limit of survivability. I want to know the edge here with my growth conditions.

When I realized that my Archontophoenix maxima and A. alexandrae just loved it here and were pulling spears all year round I decided to take a step further and dared to grow some "on the edge" palms. I now got like some 4 different growth spots on my patio, full sun; half sun; filtered; dry side; wet side; under canopy; no canopy, and I'm learning how to use them and what I grow on each one.

I'm now growing (trying :huh:) from seedling: Areca trianda; Burretiokentia koghiensis; Dypsis arenarum (from seed); D. dransfieldii; D. fibrosa; D. lanceolota; D. carlsmithii; Dictyosperma album rubrum; Veitchia spiralis, and some others that "by the book" are very marginal palms around here and also there in Cadiz.

This will be their first winter here:crying:...we'll see!  I´ll keep you updated. 

I'm also waiting for Gaussia maya,; G. gomez-pompae, and Carpentaria acuminata.

That spot where you planted Veitchia joannis seems very promising indeed. Do dare!!

Do keep me/us updated on those seedlings, would be very interested to hear how they do.. From what you say, you have an even better climate than mine! 

 

On 9/3/2020 at 4:33 PM, lzorrito said:

Thank you for your support! People here just want to grow cold hardy low maintenance palm trees...

The seedlings are on South facing warm and wind protected spot, surrounded by walls. They are under a double canopy, from a pergola, and the larger palms canopy. They also take some soft filtered morning sun.

IMG_20200903_150713.thumb.jpg.ba3e9549a2b496bc167bff7d783b7e77.jpg

The seedlings are under this canopy.

 

IMG_20200903_152604.thumb.jpg.288a53cf5865393604b4790ffb6a5dbb.jpg

The spot.

@Jan Jo, sorry for this kind of thread takeover...but I think it has a lot to do the topic.

Nothing to apologize for, it's very relevant to the topic! :)You have a great selection, too... 

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Jan Jo
17 hours ago, Antti said:

Great topic, very interesting.

Will Pritchardia pacifica grow there? And what about Carpentaria acuminata?

I have Pritchardia Thurstonii in a pot (where I live - no microclimate), but I bring it in over the coldest 3 months... I've just germinated a couple of Pritchardia Pacifica, maybe I'll try to prepare one for my new microclimate! But I'm very doubtful... I'll let you know! 

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lzorrito
4 hours ago, Jan Jo said:

Do keep me/us updated on those seedlings, would be very interested to hear how they do.. From what you say, you have an even better climate than mine! 

I will for sure keep you updated.

My climate is a little bit milder than yours, just not so dry (moisture) and so windy. Our trouble winds range are quite the same. Hot dry N, NE, and E Summer winds, and cold dry in Winter. But you suffer much more influence from the "meseta ibérica" and inland Andaluzia dry winds then we here. And also wind intensity there in Cadiz is much stronger than here. I've experienced that a few times...

I think our (mine and yours) main problem are the dry winds that seriously lower air moisture to forbidden levels in just a blink of an eye. On the last 3 weeks we are experiencing some severe hot dry conditions here due to N and NE winds, and probably you too. Minimal 20ºC/68F, Max 36ºC/97F, low air moisture...dry conditions, around 30% moisture. I've been handling this temps since early May, but with acceptable air moisture, around 70%. But the last 3 weeks... My Caryota maxima Himalaya"; L. chiniensis; A. cunninghamiana (they have some troubles handling sun here); and even P. elegans, got severe sunburn and stress. Others, like Pritchardia minor, even in shade, also show dry heat leaf issues and stress, although I keep them constantly moist.

I've been taking take my notes on my palms performance during dry heat , (my main climate issue) episodes in order to assess their correct growth conditions here.

4 hours ago, Jan Jo said:

Nothing to apologize for, it's very relevant to the topic! :)You have a great selection, too... 

Thank you! Keep us update on both your gardens!

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palmfriend
On 9/3/2020 at 12:47 AM, Jan Jo said:

Amazing Lars! I'm a big fan of Veitchia... How are you finding Winin, Spiralis and Metiti? Or do you mean they are on their way to you? 

I think I can get hold of seedlings of those three here but assumed they'd be even more tender than Joannis so I wasn't going to try.. But it's tempting... 

J

Jan Jo,

I am sorry for the late response! 

Well, @realarch inspired me to order seeds of V. metiti...

vm01.thumb.jpg.db35d6fe948e0e4d3c9632a2c2d7305e.jpg

...planted out last fall and are almost exploding.

Then I got hooked and ordered seeds last winter of...

va01.thumb.jpg.87a52ec58241833739804de7b196ddbc.jpg

V. arecina - sry for the blocks, but the spot is a bit exposed and we are now in the 

middle of the typhoon season - ...

vs01.thumb.jpg.6f3422a4e386478a774c58745d94a788.jpg

...Veitchia spiralis, put in the ground at the same time as V. arecina (five months ago)

and went on growing without a flinch, while...

vw01.thumb.jpg.58e312ea85fdd82b1c379c9bd75bd420.jpg

...V. winin is taking a bit more time but is doing definitely well, too!

Their general speed of growth is just amazing - that is what I meant with "on their way".

I was a bit too excited when posting, so I am sorry for being not clear with my 

former statement. 

best regards (and no hijacking intended) 

Lars

 

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Jan Jo
37 minutes ago, palmfriend said:

Jan Jo,

I am sorry for the late response! 

Well, @realarch inspired me to order seeds of V. metiti...

vm01.thumb.jpg.db35d6fe948e0e4d3c9632a2c2d7305e.jpg

...planted out last fall and are almost exploding.

Then I got hooked and ordered seeds last winter of...

va01.thumb.jpg.87a52ec58241833739804de7b196ddbc.jpg

V. arecina - sry for the blocks, but the spot is a bit exposed and we are now in the 

middle of the typhoon season - ...

vs01.thumb.jpg.6f3422a4e386478a774c58745d94a788.jpg

...Veitchia spiralis, put in the ground at the same time as V. arecina (five months ago)

and went on growing without a flinch, while...

vw01.thumb.jpg.58e312ea85fdd82b1c379c9bd75bd420.jpg

...V. winin is taking a bit more time but is doing definitely well, too!

Their general speed of growth is just amazing - that is what I meant with "on their way".

I was a bit too excited when posting, so I am sorry for being not clear with my 

former statement. 

best regards (and no hijacking intended) 

Lars

 

Niiice :)

 

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