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Palms that Should NOT be Planted in South Florida

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palmsOrl

A comment I made in the recent Palm ID Punta Gorda thread about not planting most Phoenix species in South Florida (Punta Gorda is technically Central Florida actually) got me to thinking, a thread dedicated to the discussion of palms that should not be planted in South Florida might be helpful and interesting.

With South Florida's tropical climate and reasonably high annual rainfall, especially in most of the eastern half of the region, the area is a palm enthusiast's paradise.  Out of roughly 2,600 known palm species, I wouldn't be surprised if over 1,000 of these could be successfully cultivated in some area of South Florida, provided a reasonable amount of care is given.

Nonetheless, there are many palms that are not well suited to South Florida for a variety of reasons.  These range from the tropical climate being too hot and humid and providing too little seasonality for certain subtropical genera/species such as Trachycarpus, Chamaerops, Nannorrhops, Trithrinax(?), many Phoenix and Jubaea, just to name a few examples.  In addition, many high-elevation, montane palms just cannot take the high levels of heat South Florida experiences for much of the year.  Examples include: Howea, Lepidorrhachis, Ceroxylon, and some Geonoma species.  Still other xeric palms can suffer from South Florida's high rainfall and humidity levels. 

In some cases, it is the soil of South Florida that is problematic and the wrong composition for some palm species, leading to incorrect pH levels and/or mineral and nutrient content.  

The vast majority of these palms are known to be failures in South Florida and thus, are never planted in the first place and when they are, they quickly succumb to the unfavorable conditions present.

Still, there are a surprising number of palms that are widely or occasionally planted in South Florida that shouldn't be and these just end up growing poorly and looking unsightly.

I will get the ball rolling with a few I often see on trips down there that leave me shaking my head.

Syagrus romanzoffiana.  This large, fast growing Cocos relative is actually quite an attractive palm in warm, subtropical regions in planting sites with nutrient-rich soil.  South Florida is not one such area and though the species is likely so common there because it is cheap and fast growing, it is generally a poor choice.  I do know that queen palms can look excellent in the Orlando area on planting sites with moist to wet, rich soil and maybe this is true for tropical South Florida as well.

Most Phoenix species will either quickly fail (outside of Fairchild's) in South Florida, look shabby or slowly decline over a period of many years after being planted.

The above mentioned two genera quickly came to mind as my parent's have a yard full of S. romanzoffiana and Phoenix in Port Charlotte (perhaps technically Central Florida, but close enough) and every single "specimen", except for the Phoenix roebelenii clumps, look ghastly.

Should Washingonia robusta be included here?  Why or why not?  I am kind of on the fence about this species.

Which are some other palms that you see planted in South Florida, that, for whatever reason, should not be?

-Michael

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PhilippineExpat

I dont live there, but I would think anything that cannot handle hurricane winds would be a bad idea. I read royal palms in Florida are in the top 5 trees that cause property damage from falling during storms because they are so huge and tend to tip over from the base as one entire tree instead of snapping off a smaller piece from somewhere in the middle of the trunk. Reading that report is what swore my wife and I off royal palms. I also read another comment about a frond that fell off a royal palm and it landed on an elderly woman and smashed her face into the cement sidewalk. 

Edited by PhilippineExpat
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JASON M

I would include Washingtonia, as they are also quickly a lightning hazard. I love them in their more arid home climates, but there are so many better choices for FL! Same with queens. Rarely look nice. I disagree about the Royal, it’s a beautiful stately native that defines South Florida. I’m happy to see them planted more often even around Orlando. 

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RedRabbit

I wouldn’t plant any sabals. First, they’re a boring choice when you have so many other options in Zone 10+. Secondly, they’re often victims to Ficus aurea so depending on where you live you might be in for a tough battle against a ficus at some point. 

Fwiw, I think Charlotte County is generally considered SW Florida. Sarasota and Manatee are more debatable.

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Fusca
7 minutes ago, JASON M said:

I would include Washingtonia, as they are also quickly a lightning hazard. I love them in their more arid home climates, but there are so many better choices for FL!

I agree and I personally prefer to see Washingtonia in groups in a commercial planting or by tall buildings in an urban setting where someone else is responsible for the trimming when they get tall.  So many better choices indeed - particularly for residential planting!  But I think there's still a place for robusta in downtown Miami or other urban areas in South FL.

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palmsOrl

Regarding Royal palms, I have read and been told that they have adapted to tropical cyclones, which are a natural occurrence in much of their native range, by "allowing" their fronds to rip off at the base of the petiole when the wind gets high enough.  This (usually) spares the palm itself by allowing it to ride out the rest of the storm without the massive amount of drag resulting from a crown of massive, heavy fronds.

Certainly, there will always be a few individuals here and there that fail completely due to a myriad of factors ranging from palm height, health, soil conditions at the time of the storm, strength of the hurricane, wind-borne debris, etc.  Also, some Roystonea species are likely better adapted to tropical cyclones than others.  Of course, we are referring to Roystonea regia almost exclusively here.

Even Cocos fail sometimes in high winds for the same host of reasons and the tall varieties are apparently much less likely to snap off at the base than the dwarfs due to the structurally reinforcing bulge at the base of the trunk.  I have seen plenty of photos of "telephone pole" coconut palms after major hurricanes and I suspect that they have the same "frond shedding" adaptation as Roystonea.  Based on my experiences observing palms and viewing thousands of photos and videos of hurricanes and their aftermath over the past 25 years, I will say that Cocos' threshold windspeed for frond shedding is much higher than that of Roystonea.

So, in conclusion Jason, I agree with you regarding royals.  I think that as long as they are appropriately sited and well-maintained, they should continue to be planted in South Florida in the ubiquitous fashion they have been to-date.  Further, Roystonea is great for most of coastal Central Florida (roughly New Smyrna Beach southward on the east coast and the Tampa Bay area southward on the west coast) and the Orlando metro area now.  I don't see any downsides in these areas that don't exist in South Florida as well, except for the increased risk of cold damage on occasion.

-Michael

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palmsOrl
45 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I wouldn’t plant any sabals. First, they’re a boring choice when you have so many other options in Zone 10+. Secondly, they’re often victims to Ficus aurea so depending on where you live you might be in for a tough battle against a ficus at some point. 

Fwiw, I think Charlotte County is generally considered SW Florida. Sarasota and Manatee are more debatable.

If I had property in South Florida, I would avoid removing existing native Sabals if possible, but I would not plant a one.  Also, I think Sabals (mainly palmetto) should be planted sparingly by municipalities in South Florida.  I agree, they are a bit boring in an area with so many palm possibilities.  Frankly, Sabal palmetto is just generally not a good-looking palm, though I have seen impressive and even somewhat attractive specimens in the right settings.

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NOT A TA

Having been involved in ornamental horticulture up North I started learning more about palms when I bought a home in Delray Beach in S FL in '05. There was a Syagrus romanzoffiana (in full sun) and several cocos in the yard already. I noticed the Romanzoffiana always appeared to look better during the winter months, like it was happier. One of the cocos snapped during hurricane Wilma, not sure what kind it was but it didn't have the wide base or gentle curve the tall varieties seem to have. Eventually I took down all of the mature trees in the yard knowing my personal comfort limits of removal by myself at that time and knowing I would be less and less capable with age. I didn't want to deal with trees landing on the house during hurricanes etc. and some of the trees were waaay beyond being assets and into the liability size.

I have small Syagrus zomanzoffiana seedlings and juveniles and they seem to do best in shade, they don't seem to like full sun here. The ones planted in shopping centers and along roadways don't look very good to me.

I haven't seen any Roystonea regia blown over during hurricanes although in my immediate area they usually get hit by lightening as soon as they're taller than telephone poles. There are a lot of mature ones in my neighborhood.

Sabal palmetto is heavily frowned upon in my neighborhood because they're so weedy in this area and just one of them will have thousands of seedlings popping up everywhere. Anyplace where that isn't consistently mowed or otherwise maintained gets overtaken by them in this area of FL no matter how poor the soil & other conditions are.  Birds drop the seed everywhere so they're a constant problem. Utility companies spend millions every year cutting them down. I've often wondered why the utilities don't become more proactive and remove them when they're small and easy instead of waiting till they need big chainsaws and cranes to remove them. Rarely does one die of natural causes once established.

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sonoranfans

roystonea are from the carribean, they take hurricanes fine, mine totally exposed at 35' tall plus laughed at IRMA, snapped a couple petioles and shredded leaves.  I laugh a little when people say carribean palms dont stand up in hurricanes, live healthy ones are better than live oaks and any other deciduous trees in my area.  After IRMA, a drive around the area was instructional, NOT ONE PALM felled, plenty of native oaks(some huge!) and other landscaping trees knocked down.  I am in manatee co. so my soil(sandy with some clay) is different than miami(limestone rock).  Some palms cannot grow strong deep roots in limestone rock and if you dont mulch the ones in sandy soils it probably wont have a great root system either.   Growing bismarckia in that limestone rock will lead to a smaller, weaker root system and with that huge sail of leaves it could get knocked down.  As far as sabals, I have causiarum, uresana, and mauritiiformis, love 'em.  I think there is a bias among those new in the hobby towards certain palms.  Initially many newbies love only pinnate palms and some of those of course only like coconuts.  I am definitely against invasive palms in florida, and that includes lots of phoenix hybrids that have taken over in oak forests, they spread like wildfire, I hate to see that.  I do have a phoenix rupicola triple and I plant to cut off the fruit so birds dont spread it.  There is a huge difference between warm 9B and warm 10B(south florid) in the palms you can grow, not sure a single "list" makes sense in all zones in south florida.

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redant
13 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

If I had property in South Florida, I would avoid removing existing native Sabals if possible, but I would not plant a one.  Also, I think Sabals (mainly palmetto) should be planted sparingly by municipalities in South Florida.  I agree, they are a bit boring in an area with so many palm possibilities.  Frankly, Sabal palmetto is just generally not a good-looking palm, though I have seen impressive and even somewhat attractive specimens in the right settings.

Well you have seen my property, the sabals that where here where allowed to stay but I'd never plant one. In the wild, curving and keeping a nice round top (untrimmed) they are beautiful, the trimmed telephone poles we see when used in parking lots or roadside are just damn ugly.

Not to plant for me, queens (ugly and hard to maintain, then they die anyway), Dypsis lutescens in a clump, they seed everywhere, to hard to keep good looking, phoenix as they are just mean as F, I planted to many.  As far as the royals falling over in a hurricane, I highly doubt that.

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redant

I'll add all caryota, while I have several, they just snap off at the base during a hurricane, just to much top to withstand the winds, and fishtails seed themselves everywhere. 

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Moose
16 minutes ago, redant said:

Well you have seen my property, the sabals that where here where allowed to stay but I'd never plant one. In the wild, curving and keeping a nice round top (untrimmed) they are beautiful, the trimmed telephone poles we see when used in parking lots or roadside are just damn ugly.

Not to plant for me, queens (ugly and hard to maintain, then they die anyway), Dypsis lutescens in a clump, they seed everywhere, to hard to keep good looking, phoenix as they are just mean as F, I planted to many.  As far as the royals falling over in a hurricane, I highly doubt that.

Orchids like growing on the trunks of Sabals. Tie them to the petiole base. When the base eventually rescinds, pick the orchid up and tie to the trunk. An orchid growing on a tree or trunk is so much easier to maintain.

Add Medemia to the list. Such a rare palm, I tried very hard (mound planted) to get one to thrive. Two failures, we are way too humid

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PalmatierMeg

Will not plant:

Queens: they are Class II invasives in FL, messy, weedy, hate our alkaline soil, water/fertilizer hogs and prone to fusiarum wilt. 

Washingtonia sp all: also messy, weedy and prone to wilt

Foxtails: hate our soil, suffer nutritional issues, cold damage issues, are messy, short term survivors and look sickly and yellow most of the time

Neoveitchia storckii: cannot survive here in the ground - alkaline soil?  nematodes?

Normanbya normanbya: same problems as foxtail, only worse

Itaya amicorum: dies a slow miserable death

Brahea sp all: desert, dry heat, low humidity palms. FL climate suffocates them

Geonoma sp all: FL climate incompatible with survival

Howea spp: I have one of each species under deep canopy but know this genus hates my climate

Pseudophoenix spp: There is a fatal disease that is taking out my Pseudophoenix one at a time. All are gone in front yard, 4 remain in side yard. I won't plant more.

Not a palm but Cycas revoluta: Asian scale eventually got all mine despite preventative treatments.

I agree with Moose on Medemia

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redant
14 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Will not plant:

Queens: they are Class II invasives in FL, messy, weedy, hate our alkaline soil, water/fertilizer hogs and prone to fusiarum wilt. 

Washingtonia sp all: also messy, weedy and prone to wilt

Foxtails: hate our soil, suffer nutritional issues, cold damage issues, are messy, short term survivors and look sickly and yellow most of the time

Neoveitchia storckii: cannot survive here in the ground - alkaline soil?  nematodes?

Normanbya normanbya: same problems as foxtail, only worse

Itaya amicorum: dies a slow miserable death

Brahea sp all: desert, dry heat, low humidity palms. FL climate suffocates them

Geonoma sp all: FL climate incompatible with survival

Howea spp: I have one of each species under deep canopy but know this genus hates my climate

Pseudophoenix spp: There is a fatal disease that is taking out my Pseudophoenix one at a time. All are gone in front yard, 4 remain in side yard. I won't plant more.

Not a palm but Cycas revoluta: Asian scale eventually got all mine despite preventative treatments.

I agree with Moose on Medemia

While most everything you state seems correct, my foxtails look marvelous and I don't do anything to them. My soil is sand with lots of pine needles, maybe they just need more acid? Also mine have never done any cold damage problems, I'd rate them way higher then many other things I plant.

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PalmatierMeg

@redant, I knew a lot of people would disagree with me about foxtails. I love the look of them but had a difficult time growing them. Balancing fertilizer and minor elements was an ongoing fruitless struggle, one nighttime freeze sent it on an excrutiating spiral of penciling and borer attacks until I paid someone to take the wretched thing out. Now they are common as dirt and almost as cheap so I have no wish to devote precious yard space to one of them.

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aztropic

Any idea of what causes the decline in the Pseudophoenix species? Ants farming mealybugs inside crownshaft or something else? I have 20 Pseudo's planted around my desert garden and have never seen that kind of black rot damage that occurs in S. Florida on any of mine.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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aztropic

Pseudophoenix has always been one of my favorites because they do so well under desert growing conditions.

Here's my most photogenic :)

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

15985550574513284485364985241179.jpg

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chad2468emr
22 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Syagrus romanzoffiana.  This large, fast growing Cocos relative is actually quite an attractive palm in warm, subtropical regions in planting sites with nutrient-rich soil.  South Florida is not one such area and though the species is likely so common there because it is cheap and fast growing, it is generally a poor choice.  I do know that queen palms can look excellent in the Orlando area on planting sites with moist to wet, rich soil and maybe this is true for tropical South Florida as well.

Most Phoenix species will either quickly fail (outside of Fairchild's) in South Florida, look shabby or slowly decline over a period of many years after being planted.

Should Washingonia robusta be included here?  Why or why not?  I am kind of on the fence about this species.

I have to disagree with you on these first two. I think if a particular area has improperly draining soil (though 6+ inches down tends to always turnt to sand) or an area where water tends to accumulate, they may not do so well, but I lived in South Florida (Broward) for just under a decade and I saw countless large, beautiful queen palms and Phoenix species. 

I had a neighbor in a development I lived at in Plantation who had a 30+ foot queen palm with a real thick, even trunk and unusually long fronds that was just about the most attractive queen palm I've ever seen. Picture attached - apologies on the low quality, but you can see it in the background. This was a picture taken for other reasons and I had to zoom in / crop to find it, haha. 

189439860_ImagefromiOS(6).thumb.jpg.b56fc48fc158d705c08bc65d642e40d4.jpg

That being said, I think in most instances of Phoenix, they were always in commercial areas. Biscayne BLVD in Aventura comes to mind because it's lined with some gorgeous specimens. Screenshot attached courtesy of Google maps, haha. 

1685788777_ScreenShot2020-08-27at4_34_18PM.thumb.png.a26670352d2de799c76789085b627e43.png

I also wouldn't count out W Robusta because I have seen countless healthy specimens in commercial areas as well. I think most people just don't really plant them in yards because they are "generic" and you can get away with more interesting palms in SFL, combined with their size and propensity to snap in hurricanes. I had once asked a similar question on here, wondering if the rainfall and humidity would make an unfavorable environment for them in SFL, and I was told that they really aren't affected by it. Someone remarked that they've seen them growing strong with their trunks partially submerged in water on a bank. (screenshot of my fav clump of Washies in Sawgrass, FL, also courtesy of Google Maps. 

1699655569_ScreenShot2020-08-27at4_39_27PM.thumb.png.0eb4ceb21427ad06db5672fde321b7d7.png

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Xenon
7 hours ago, Moose said:

Add Medemia to the list. Such a rare palm, I tried very hard (mound planted) to get one to thrive. Two failures, we are way too humid

Medemia grows well in deep south Texas and at Nong Nooch in Thailand.  

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Reeverse
7 hours ago, aztropic said:

Any idea of what causes the decline in the Pseudophoenix species? Ants farming mealybugs inside crownshaft or something else? I have 20 Pseudo's planted around my desert garden and have never seen that kind of black rot damage that occurs in S. Florida on any of mine.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

I believe it's a virus that causes the slow decline. I have 2 that started with a sooty mold looking fungus and become larger with time. Sad because they are such slow growers. No insect problems so there is definitely something going on 

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palmsOrl
14 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

roystonea are from the carribean, they take hurricanes fine, mine totally exposed at 35' tall plus laughed at IRMA, snapped a couple petioles and shredded leaves.  I laugh a little when people say carribean palms dont stand up in hurricanes, live healthy ones are better than live oaks and any other deciduous trees in my area.  After IRMA, a drive around the area was instructional, NOT ONE PALM felled, plenty of native oaks(some huge!) and other landscaping trees knocked down.  I am in manatee co. so my soil(sandy with some clay) is different than miami(limestone rock).  Some palms cannot grow strong deep roots in limestone rock and if you dont mulch the ones in sandy soils it probably wont have a great root system either.   Growing bismarckia in that limestone rock will lead to a smaller, weaker root system and with that huge sail of leaves it could get knocked down.  As far as sabals, I have causiarum, uresana, and mauritiiformis, love 'em.  I think there is a bias among those new in the hobby towards certain palms.  Initially many newbies love only pinnate palms and some of those of course only like coconuts.  I am definitely against invasive palms in florida, and that includes lots of phoenix hybrids that have taken over in oak forests, they spread like wildfire, I hate to see that.  I do have a phoenix rupicola triple and I plant to cut off the fruit so birds dont spread it.  There is a huge difference between warm 9B and warm 10B(south florid) in the palms you can grow, not sure a single "list" makes sense in all zones in south florida.

This is true.  Merely coming up with a list could greatly over-simplify the matter and not take into account the range of zones found within South Florida itself.  Let's put a couple parameters in place to focus the discussion.

Firstly, the definition of South Florida itself varies greatly according to the source in question and I have seen "South Florida" defined from as small of an area as the Miami-Dade greater metro area and the FL Keys to almost the entire southern half of the Florida Peninsula.  Heck, the University of South Florida is located in...Tampa, hardly what I would consider "South Florida" from a geographical standpoint.

So, for purposes of this thread, South Florida is defined as follows: Lee County, Collier County, Monroe County, Miami-Dade County, Broward County, Palm Beach County and Hendry County.

Even within the above-defined area, major differences do indeed exist in which palms "should" and "should not" be planted, based on where in this seven county area one is considering.  For example, there are many, many palms that should NOT be planted if one is located, say, 20 miles east of Fort Myers that would do great in Miami.  Conversely, if one were a major enthusiast of the genus Phoenix and wanted to grow as many species of said genus as possible, one would likely have far better luck at this venture in the eastern outskirts of Fort Myers than if the same were attempted in Miami.

But, for the purposes of this thread, let's (continue to) discuss palms that, for whatever reason, should not be planted in any of South Florida, South Florida being defined as the seven county area listed above.

-Michael

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sonoranfans
6 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

This is true.  Merely coming up with a list could greatly over-simplify the matter and not take into account the range of zones found within South Florida itself.  Let's put a couple parameters in place to focus the discussion.

Firstly, the definition of South Florida itself varies greatly according to the source in question and I have seen "South Florida" defined from as small of an area as the Miami-Dade greater metro area and the FL Keys to almost the entire southern half of the Florida Peninsula.  Heck, the University of South Florida is located in...Tampa, hardly what I would consider "South Florida" from a geographical standpoint.

So, for purposes of this thread, South Florida is defined as follows: Lee County, Collier County, Monroe County, Miami-Dade County, Broward County, Palm Beach County and Hendry County.

Even within the above-defined area, major differences do indeed exist in which palms "should" and "should not" be planted, based on where in this seven county area one is considering.  For example, there are many, many palms that should NOT be planted if one is located, say, 20 miles east of Fort Myers that would do great in Miami.  Conversely, if one were a major enthusiast of the genus Phoenix and wanted to grow as many species of said genus as possible, one would likely have far better luck at this venture in the eastern outskirts of Fort Myers than if the same were attempted in Miami.

But, for the purposes of this thread, let's (continue to) discuss palms that, for whatever reason, should not be planted in any of South Florida, South Florida being defined as the seven county area listed above.

-Michael

Counties are artificial borders, its better to say 10a florida.  Anna maria island is one of the warmest areas in winter and its just south of the mouth of tampa bay.  Inland in many of those contunties the zone drops off faster than it does north to south.  In florida water proximity is worth several hundred miles in latitude.

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NatureGirl
18 hours ago, aztropic said:

Any idea of what causes the decline in the Pseudophoenix species? Ants farming mealybugs inside crownshaft or something else? I have 20 Pseudo's planted around my desert garden and have never seen that kind of black rot damage that occurs in S. Florida on any of mine.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

It’s some kind of fungus or bacterial infection? But it only attacks  Mature Pseudophoenix, which is what’s weird about the disease. I managed to save one of my P. Sargentii, by first pouring hydrogen peroxide, then a few months later, I drenched the crown with a lot of Copper. It’s really looking great now.

781D25D6-C797-4670-8DAA-F3EE3A9EB56A.jpeg

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kinzyjr
12 minutes ago, NatureGirl said:

It’s some kind of fungus or bacterial infection? But it only attacks  Mature Pseudophoenix, which is what’s weird about the disease. I managed to save one of my P. Sargentii, by first pouring hydrogen peroxide, then a few months later, I drenched the crown with a lot of Copper. It’s really looking great now.

Thank you for sharing your remedy for this condition.  This will come in handy for mine and all of the plantings downtown.  Any truth to the saltwater wash remedy to your knowledge? 

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NatureGirl
1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

Thank you for sharing your remedy for this condition.  This will come in handy for mine and all of the plantings downtown.  Any truth to the saltwater wash remedy to your knowledge? Thank

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I was hoping that was true about the salt, but I live 17 houses down in first block from the Atlantic, I get plenty of salt spray on windy days. It’s had no effect, sadly.

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PalmatierMeg
23 hours ago, aztropic said:

Any idea of what causes the decline in the Pseudophoenix species? Ants farming mealybugs inside crownshaft or something else? I have 20 Pseudo's planted around my desert garden and have never seen that kind of black rot damage that occurs in S. Florida on any of mine.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

See topic below I posted about my oldest sargentii back in 2011. Despite all the tips I lost it. Since then I recently lost a large P. vinifera nearby and I fear some of my Pseudophoenix on my garden lot may be infected.

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/27308-pseudophoenix-sargentii/

 

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PalmatierMeg

RE Syagrus romanzoffiana, there is no reason ever to plant this Class II invasive in SFL when you have a list of more suitable palms as long as your arm. Same goes for Washingtonia. And both are subject to fatal fusarium wilt. If I lived in Ocala I would have different outlook and would likely have both. Is fusarium wilt prevalent in Central and North FL?

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NatureGirl
1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

See topic below I posted about my oldest sargentii back in 2011. Despite all the tips I lost it. Since then I recently lost a large P. vinifera nearby and I fear some of my Pseudophoenix on my garden lot may be infected.

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/27308-pseudophoenix-sargentii/

 

Here’s the Pseudophoenix in the article that was oozing. This one also lived after treatment. However, I did lose one, my P, sargentii var navassana, it was already too late when I treated it. Photo of one in back yard, showing hole where it was oozing.

A0F72B83-423E-42D2-A387-274699F583E0.jpeg

9C6C643D-B7C0-4734-B827-35A9F6FE23A4.jpeg

4AA52226-59BD-4F19-B28A-AD57665EFE5E.jpeg

026CCFB0-5DBA-415F-A8F1-AD73A0CB265A.jpeg

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Moose

Now you guys got me wondering? My impression has been that Psuedophoenix was almost bulletproof once established if you kept the sprinklers from hitting them.

20200829_063914(1).jpg

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Moose

Trunk looks OK so far

20200829_063919(1).jpg

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atlantisrising
On 8/27/2020 at 12:32 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Will not plant:

 

Neoveitchia storckii: cannot survive here in the ground - alkaline soil?  nematodes?

 

I'm curious if anyone else has had problems with these? After seeing a spectacular one at Fairchild I put a 5 gal. one in the ground here in Key Largo with little amendment so a lot of coral rock around it. It is absolutely Jurassic, in 4 yrs it is trunking, looks like about 20" at the base and the leaves are 15'. Doing so good that I put a second one in a few months ago. Daily irrigation and florikan 3-4 times a year. No pest issues so far, the red palm mites that love carpoxylon and adonidia avoid neovietcha like poison.

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PalmatierMeg
18 hours ago, atlantisrising said:

I'm curious if anyone else has had problems with these? After seeing a spectacular one at Fairchild I put a 5 gal. one in the ground here in Key Largo with little amendment so a lot of coral rock around it. It is absolutely Jurassic, in 4 yrs it is trunking, looks like about 20" at the base and the leaves are 15'. Doing so good that I put a second one in a few months ago. Daily irrigation and florikan 3-4 times a year. No pest issues so far, the red palm mites that love carpoxylon and adonidia avoid neovietcha like poison.

I have tried and tried and tried to get one to survive and grow with no luck. I made myself a rule: I give a palm 3 attempts to make it. After that, it's out. I don't want to be the fool who does something over and over ad nauseum while expecting a different result each time.

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PJP

Neoveithchia Storkii I have two in 25 gallon pots that I will be planting soon.  I will also be supplementing the soil in hopes of success.  Thanks Atlantisrising for sharing your amendments for success.

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redant
20 hours ago, atlantisrising said:

I'm curious if anyone else has had problems with these? After seeing a spectacular one at Fairchild I put a 5 gal. one in the ground here in Key Largo with little amendment so a lot of coral rock around it. It is absolutely Jurassic, in 4 yrs it is trunking, looks like about 20" at the base and the leaves are 15'. Doing so good that I put a second one in a few months ago. Daily irrigation and florikan 3-4 times a year. No pest issues so far, the red palm mites that love carpoxylon and adonidia avoid neovietcha like poison.

I had only tried this palm once, it was expensive and just lingered for years before croaking. Now carpoxalon, that's another disaster for me, out of 5 I have one that seems super slow but still growing now for about 5 years.

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palmsOrl
On 8/29/2020 at 3:58 PM, atlantisrising said:

I'm curious if anyone else has had problems with these? After seeing a spectacular one at Fairchild I put a 5 gal. one in the ground here in Key Largo with little amendment so a lot of coral rock around it. It is absolutely Jurassic, in 4 yrs it is trunking, looks like about 20" at the base and the leaves are 15'. Doing so good that I put a second one in a few months ago. Daily irrigation and florikan 3-4 times a year. No pest issues so far, the red palm mites that love carpoxylon and adonidia avoid neovietcha like poison.

I am going to guess it is something about the South Florida soil.  Doesn't the soil in this area tend to be alkaline?

I grew one in the ground for a couple years here near Orlando and it did quite well and seemed to sail through a typical 10a winter with no damage.  I amended the sandy native soil around it with potting soil, so I am assume (like most tropical rainforest palms, many of which prefer acidic soil and a few of which may require it), this species might need soil pH on the acidic side.  Just a guess.

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atlantisrising

Regarding the Neovietcha, the soil in  Key  Largo is mostly coral rock with a couple inches of decayed leaves on top and I did not add amendments so it is in fairly high alkaline conditions. Daily irrigation might be the key for those that have had problems and very good drainage. Don't really know why but it never sputtered or hesitated, a bit slow at first but steady and always happy. Now a seriously fat trunk with massive leaf, I'll post a pic next time I'm down there.

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atlantisrising
On 8/30/2020 at 12:14 PM, redant said:

I had only tried this palm once, it was expensive and just lingered for years before croaking. Now carpoxalon, that's another disaster for me, out of 5 I have one that seems super slow but still growing now for about 5 years.

Carpoxylon is another species that has done very well for me, I have 3 in the ground. One from potted stock and two field grown, and in various soils, two beds were jackhammered out and filled with topsoil and sand and one was put into the native soil here which is coral gravels and solid coral rock. They are all doing good but the one in native soil is the best. One gets a little brown tipped on the leaflets and I believe it is a water or drainage issue, it is in a bed where the coral was so hard that water actually did not drain out very well. Initially I thought it was not enough water and ratcheted it up which seemed to worsen the brown tipping, I'm now dialing it back to see if it is drainage. Where drainage is good they will take all the water you can give them, the more the better. They are sensitive to transplant, especially field grown ones, my neighbor liked mine and got four of them, only one survived but he did not irrigate daily and I believe that contributed to their demise. The red palm mites love them, my battle with those critters is another story but I've finally managed to achieve some control.

Ones I have had no success with, Pinanga has been difficult, I have Casiea and Maculata finally doing good but about 8 other species died rapidly, Geonoma all gone, Burretiokentia killed a lot of those to get 2 each of hapala and viellardii established, grandiflora never made it out of the pots. Really lust for Bentinckia condapanna, had one left that was struggling when the Damn termite tenters poisoned it, that company is not allowed within 100' feet of my property, They killed at least 8 of my babies out sheer carelessness. Nicobarica is a superstar for me but condapanna gives me fits. Licualas I gave up on all except grandis, way too expensive to kill as many as I have.

Here"s a pic of carpoxylon in native rock in Key Largo

IMG_20200205_090633164[1].jpg

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redant
1 hour ago, atlantisrising said:

Carpoxylon is another species that has done very well for me, I have 3 in the ground. One from potted stock and two field grown, and in various soils, two beds were jackhammered out and filled with topsoil and sand and one was put into the native soil here which is coral gravels and solid coral rock. They are all doing good but the one in native soil is the best. One gets a little brown tipped on the leaflets and I believe it is a water or drainage issue, it is in a bed where the coral was so hard that water actually did not drain out very well. Initially I thought it was not enough water and ratcheted it up which seemed to worsen the brown tipping, I'm now dialing it back to see if it is drainage. Where drainage is good they will take all the water you can give them, the more the better. They are sensitive to transplant, especially field grown ones, my neighbor liked mine and got four of them, only one survived but he did not irrigate daily and I believe that contributed to their demise. The red palm mites love them, my battle with those critters is another story but I've finally managed to achieve some control.

Ones I have had no success with, Pinanga has been difficult, I have Casiea and Maculata finally doing good but about 8 other species died rapidly, Geonoma all gone, Burretiokentia killed a lot of those to get 2 each of hapala and viellardii established, grandiflora never made it out of the pots. Really lust for Bentinckia condapanna, had one left that was struggling when the Damn termite tenters poisoned it, that company is not allowed within 100' feet of my property, They killed at least 8 of my babies out sheer carelessness. Nicobarica is a superstar for me but condapanna gives me fits. Licualas I gave up on all except grandis, way too expensive to kill as many as I have.

Here"s a pic of carpoxylon in native rock in Key Largo

IMG_20200205_090633164[1].jpg

Stunning Carpoxylon, the one I have growing is by a hose so I give it frequent extra water,  the soil is pure sand, high and dry so it drains instantly, I probably should increase it watering. 

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atlantisrising

Here's a couple of pics of the Neovietcha storckii, I'm trying to remember the details of it's planting, I'm thinking now that it was a 15 gal size  about 5' tall and was planted 5 yrs ago. It is at least 20' to the tip now.

IMG_20201023_163220966.jpg

IMG_20201023_163231461.jpg

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