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Tracy

Which Phoenix species or hybrid?

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Tracy

I was a bit surprised by the girth of the trunks in this group of Phoenix which appeared to be a clumping species.  Unfortunately due to foliage and the lens that I had on at the time, I could only get the trunks as opposed to the entire palms when I was close.  YOu can see in the 2nd & 3rd photos the width of the trunk compared to the Washingtonia robusta adjacent to them.  Once up above I got the first photo of the crowns which is smack dab middle of the photo, with all the robusta's adjacent again.  The palms are in the San Diego Safari Park.  Everything was looking very green including the hills across the San Pasqual Valley after this winter's abundance of rainfall.  My first guess was a Phoenix reclinata hybrid with one of the thicker trunked Phoenix, but I don't claim to be that familiar with all the Phoenix species.  That said, I am also aware of the abundance of Phoenix crosses.  I've seen so many palms that appear to be Phoenix reclinata with varying length fronds, which are not necessarily linked to the light exposure, so I have little doubt that they are willing partners in hybridization.  What think you?

Just a side note, that the signage on plants is sorely lacking at the Safari Park ,or as we old timers knew it the "Wild Animal Park", when compared to its big sister facility, the San Diego Zoo.

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20190316-104A2743.jpg

20190316-104A2742.jpg

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kinzyjr

If I had to take a guess, I would say a reclinata or a hybrid of reclinata with canariensis.  Effectively, my guess = your guess :D

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UK_Palms
22 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

If I had to take a guess, I would say a reclinata or a hybrid of reclinata with canariensis.  Effectively, my guess = your guess :D

I agree. It looks like it is pure Reclinata to me though, given it is clumping/clustering. Canariensis hybrids don't usually clump, or at least I don't think they do.

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Merlyn2220

I'd guess Canary/Reclinata mix of some sort.  Pure Reclinata trunks tend to be around 6-10" in diameter or so, at least on the ones I've seen.  Those trunks look more like 15-20"!  I forgot who posted these (maybe Eric?) but here are a couple of suspected Canary/Reclinata hybrids.

Phoenix canary x reclinata v3.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata v4.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata trunks a.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata v2a.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata a.jpg

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Tracy
1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I'd guess Canary/Reclinata mix of some sort.  Pure Reclinata trunks tend to be around 6-10" in diameter or so, at least on the ones I've seen.  Those trunks look more like 15-20"!  I forgot who posted these (maybe Eric?) but here are a couple of suspected Canary/Reclinata hybrids.

Thank you for sharing those pictures of other probable CIDP x P. reclinata hybrids!  The girth on the ones you have shared does more closely match the clump I posted from the SD Safari Park.

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Jim in Los Altos

That looks a whole lot like my P. reclinata x roebelenii with those skinny trunks. image.thumb.jpeg.85b441eb045bb465d325e16a2c4d7345.jpeg

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Phoenikakias

Maybe picture deceives, but at first glance I do not see any girth. In foreground a stem of what I believe to be genuine reclinata and in background a stem of what I believe to be a reclinata x canariensis cross. Latter is being kept through back trim single-stemmed.

20190322_091719.thumb.jpg.913bc806cb6e193b0e2035befe9f1420.jpg

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Phoenikakias

And the comparison from a reverse perspective.

20190322_092432.thumb.jpg.a2331359b5a51989f87d89c733355837.jpg

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Phoenikakias

And finally a comparison of the thought to be reclinata x canariensis hybrid with a genuine canariensis

20190322_094219.thumb.jpg.f63d557ba10512ec634c50e405347ed1.jpg

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Tracy
5 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Maybe picture deceives, but at first glance I do not see any girth. In foreground a stem of what I believe to be genuine reclinata and in background a stem of what I believe to be a reclinata x canariensis cross. Latter is being kept through back trim single-stemmed.

20190322_091719.thumb.jpg.913bc806cb6e193b0e2035befe9f1420.jpg

The Washingtonia robusta behind and to the left of the signpost is roughly the same distance as the Phoenix trunk to the far right in the photo below.  The P reclinata's I'm familiar with have trunks narrower than the base of a Washingtonia, while the Phoenix in the photo have substantially thicker trunks.  The Safari Park has Phoenix reclinata planted extensively throughout their "Africa" species area which is another reason that this "stood out" as unusual in it's girth. 

20190316-104A2743.jpg

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Palm Tree Jim

I have 2 Phoenix reclinatas in my garden, and both different. The leaf structure is certainly different but the trunks are close.  I was told that the specimens in my garden are hybrids but I'm not sure.

Later, I can post pictures of both.

 

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Palm Tree Jim

Some pictures as promised.

 

993BDCEE-4266-4C47-9CB2-D1B9B0A76264.jpeg

0BADE5D0-C10C-4419-88E2-F96B46292A7E.jpeg

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Palm Tree Jim

And the other.

 

51A8D31B-14CD-4BCF-A7A7-CC76A3E1BF00.jpeg

706B2BBC-A2B2-4C75-9FF2-237AE2166BA0.jpeg

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Tracy

I have a Phoenix reclinata growing in partial shade, so I think it's leaves are a bit stretched compared to if I had grown it in full sun.  I planted it about 23 years ago from a 1 gallon.  The leaf form is visible in the first photo from 10 years ago, while the second photo is just of the trunks looking down on them from above.  Hard to get perspective, but with the trunk on the tallest above the wall, it has nowhere near the girth of my post from the Safari Park.

20090613-IMG_3363 Phoenix reclinata.jpg

20181123-104A1639-2.jpg

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Tracy
On 3/22/2019 at 12:23 AM, Phoenikakias said:

Maybe picture deceives, but at first glance I do not see any girth. In foreground a stem of what I believe to be genuine reclinata and in background a stem of what I believe to be a reclinata x canariensis cross.

My expectations for what Phoenix reclinata looks like are set by the numerous plantings in San Diego's Balboa Park and other environs (first 2 photos of what I believe are P reclinata).  Another of what appears to be the reclinata x canariansis crosses, shows the difference in girth again.  All photos from Balboa Park.

20190330-104A2845.jpg

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Phoenikakias

I can cut off a fresh frond of my reclinata from near the base by using a crosscut secateur, while to the very same purpose on my reclinata hybrid I have to use s saw. 

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Merlyn2220
On 3/22/2019 at 9:33 PM, Tracy said:

I have a Phoenix reclinata growing in partial shade, so I think it's leaves are a bit stretched compared to if I had grown it in full sun.  I planted it about 23 years ago from a 1 gallon.  The leaf form is visible in the first photo from 10 years ago, while the second photo is just of the trunks looking down on them from above.  Hard to get perspective, but with the trunk on the tallest above the wall, it has nowhere near the girth of my post from the Safari Park.

20181123-104A1639-2.jpg

The trunks in Reclinata around here look pretty much identical to the ones in the above photo.  Most appear to be about 8" diameter.  The trunks from your later picture are enormous, there's no way they are a plain Reclinata.  A mix with Canariensis would be my bet too, though the petiole/rachis are relatively straight and not arched like Reclinata x Canariensis.  Maybe the mix is Reclinata x Dactylifera?  AFAIK the Dacty is the only Phoenix with very straight rachis.  Thanks for the great pics!!!

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