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Jan Jo

Red palm weevil strikes again in Spain! Are no palms safe?

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Jan Jo

Et tu, Ravenea? 

Are no palm species safe from this pest?? 

After losing my Pritchardia Hildebrandii last spring to the RPW, I started spraying my palms with insecticide (I can't remember the name just now, but it's the one that supposedly kills RPW's....), every couple of months...

Obviously not enough, since the other day I found a hole in my Majesty palm, and after emergency surgery to cut out the rot (and weevils), I found there's a network of tunnels fairly deep into the trunk...

20171122_164545-774x1032.thumb.jpg.cbdeb

I nuked the holes with more insecticide, H2O2, fungicide (not all at once), but one of the holes goes deep, and it seems pretty mucky in there, can't exactly cut further into it... is there any hope?? Any ideas?

Now the leaves are beginning to twist...

20171122_164532-774x1032.thumb.jpg.d2d94

It was one of my favourites... :(:(

J

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Phoenikakias

How often do you spray and how much on each plant?

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Jan Jo
1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

How often do you spray and how much on each plant?

Well, this summer about every 45/60 days, basically just spraying "a bit" in/around the crownshaft of each palm... how much do you recommend?

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Phoenikakias

It is to little, but if you apply to much you run a big risk for fungal infection. Whole situation sucks, it really sucks a lot!

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Jan Jo
6 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

It is to little, but if you apply to much you run a big risk for fungal infection. Whole situation sucks, it really sucks a lot!

It really does... :badday:

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Monòver

RPW loves Raveneas!!! 

You must not spray the crown, you must soak-shower the crown everytimes. The bugs are inside the crown and you need lots of insecticide to arrive inside the holes. 

May be in a palm like yours, 3-4 litres. 

In Summer fungal infection is not a problem for you, your place is windy and dry.

From March to November the best is spray every months.

Now you must soak with insecticide (clorpirifos or imidacloprid ) the holes and may be, mixed with fungicide( metil tiofanato).

Your palm is small and may be is too late to save it and now is the worst moment. Before Winter, cold and rain are not good friends in this situation.

Good luck!!!

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Sanips

That sucks! I hope it recovers.

I always wondered what this nasty plague is going to eat after destroying all the CIDPs and washies...

Good luck and keep us informed.

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Sandy Loam

What a sad sight, that Ravenea Rivularis palm!  I am so sorry to see your damage.

Does anyone know which species of palms the Red Palm Weevil attacks?  It can't be only Ravenea and Canary Island Date Palm.  Is ANY palm a potential victim?  Are some palm species safe to plant in the south of Spain?

Here in Florida, USA, I don't believe that we have the Red Palm Weevil, but we do have the Palmetto Weevil. Fortunately, it only seems to attack a few types of palms, to the best of my knowledge.   

How does one put the Iidacloprid into the crown without cutting it open?  Is merely soaking the crown sufficient?  Are you supposed to try and pour it down the cracks where the bud and the fronds emerge from?   

      

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Phoenikakias
3 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

What a sad sight, that Ravenea Rivularis palm!  I am so sorry to see your damage.

Does anyone know which species of palms the Red Palm Weevil attacks?  It can't be only Ravenea and Canary Island Date Palm.  Is ANY palm a potential victim?  Are some palm species safe to plant in the south of Spain?

Here in Florida, USA, I don't believe that we have the Red Palm Weevil, but we do have the Palmetto Weevil. Fortunately, it only seems to attack a few types of palms, to the best of my knowledge.   

How does one put the Iidacloprid into the crown without cutting it open?  Is merely soaking the crown sufficient?  Are you supposed to try and pour it down the cracks where the bud and the fronds emerge from?   

      

Yep, but I still insist that apart from the bullet proof, cold hardy, long established palms, such as Phoenix, Washies, Chamaerops, many others do not like a mothly soaking of the crown with chemicals. Take for example Wodyetia to name one very striking case... 

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Stelios

So far here in Cyprus I noticed that most of the CIDP survivors are the once that grew from seeds like in nature in fields out of the towns (probably taken there by birds or animals). Maybe it doesn't make any difference but the majority of them are not trimmed like this beauty near the road, I have seen trimmed CIDP palms smaller than this and they were attacked by RPW. No experience in regards other varieties (only lately they are using new varieties). I've seen a couple of washies dying but I can't be sure since they were too tall.

20171125_152854.jpg

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Sandy Loam

Does this mean that no one living in a RPW zone should ever prune their palms, as a preventive measure?

I found this article showing maps of the current worldwide distribution of the Red Palm Weevil.  It also shows future predictions of where the RPW will move: 

http://journals.fcla.edu/flaent/article/viewFile/80382/77623

The future does not look good for palm growers in southern Europe.  Clearly, growers will have to select their palm species from among those which are not susceptible to the RPW.  (Do any exist?)

For those interested in all three palm weevils, I came across this simple powerpoint presentation as well:

http://entnemdept.ifas.ufl.edu/hodges/Collaborative/Documents/Palm_weevils.pdf

 

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Nakheel1412

I read that in Spain, during certain seasons, some do not trim Phoenixes at all, because trimming might attract weevils (btw RPW loves Jubaeas as well) ;

When it comes to species that do not attract the RPW, I was told that Syagrus romanzoffiana palms are now planted in places like Nice (France) to replace dead CIDPs since the RPW tends to ignore them for now, but many French horticulturists believe it's just a matter of time, assuming that when RPW won't have any Phoenix left to eat, they'll attack other species (even other plants, like Yuccas !) ;

What should be done is prohibiting palm transit without phytosanitary certificates ; It works, drastically ;

That's what's being done here in Morocco, and honestly, even though it makes importing "exotic" palms (very) difficult and pricy, at least we don't have to treat our palms all year round ;

Btw, thanks a lot for the powerpoint !

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Jan Jo
On 11/22/2017, 10:27:44, Monòver said:

RPW loves Raveneas!!! 

You must not spray the crown, you must soak-shower the crown everytimes. The bugs are inside the crown and you need lots of insecticide to arrive inside the holes. 

May be in a palm like yours, 3-4 litres. 

In Summer fungal infection is not a problem for you, your place is windy and dry.

From March to November the best is spray every months.

Now you must soak with insecticide (clorpirifos or imidacloprid ) the holes and may be, mixed with fungicide( metil tiofanato).

Your palm is small and may be is too late to save it and now is the worst moment. Before Winter, cold and rain are not good friends in this situation.

Good luck!!!

Thanks Antonio! I think I'll send you a personal message for more specific expert advice ;)

I think it's probably time to accept reality... I don't think I can save her. There's more leaf twisting... and as you say, now is the worst time. I'm not very good at recovering sick palms either, not very patient.. bad palm parenting, I know B) 

Already thinking about a substitute (for next spring)!

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Jan Jo
On 11/25/2017, 5:42:22, Sandy Loam said:

What a sad sight, that Ravenea Rivularis palm!  I am so sorry to see your damage.

Does anyone know which species of palms the Red Palm Weevil attacks?  It can't be only Ravenea and Canary Island Date Palm.  Is ANY palm a potential victim?  Are some palm species safe to plant in the south of Spain?

Here in Florida, USA, I don't believe that we have the Red Palm Weevil, but we do have the Palmetto Weevil. Fortunately, it only seems to attack a few types of palms, to the best of my knowledge.   

How does one put the Iidacloprid into the crown without cutting it open?  Is merely soaking the crown sufficient?  Are you supposed to try and pour it down the cracks where the bud and the fronds emerge from?   

      

Thanks for the commiseration... I specifically avoided CIDPs in my garden after seeing the devastation around here in Spain. But I have many species, I've so far lost the Ravenea and a Pritchardia... I've heard it's open season on several others too, Howea, maybe Sabal sp.? I guess it's a case of the weevils' preference depending on what's available.. There are lots of Washingtonia Robusta here and they don't seem too affected... but I've heard of Washingtonia Filifera being more susceptible...

It's all very sad :(

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Jan Jo
On 11/25/2017, 6:32:04, Sandy Loam said:

Does this mean that no one living in a RPW zone should ever prune their palms, as a preventive measure?

I found this article showing maps of the current worldwide distribution of the Red Palm Weevil.  It also shows future predictions of where the RPW will move: 

http://journals.fcla.edu/flaent/article/viewFile/80382/77623

The future does not look good for palm growers in southern Europe.  Clearly, growers will have to select their palm species from among those which are not susceptible to the RPW.  (Do any exist?)

For those interested in all three palm weevils, I came across this simple powerpoint presentation as well:

http://entnemdept.ifas.ufl.edu/hodges/Collaborative/Documents/Palm_weevils.pdf

 

That's what my local expert friends keep advising me, never prune other than during the cold weather months (December to February here, it's still gets to 20o C even now, late November)... guess I'll take their advice from now on... 

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Jan Jo
On 11/25/2017, 7:35:06, Nakheel1412 said:

I read that in Spain, during certain seasons, some do not trim Phoenixes at all, because trimming might attract weevils (btw RPW loves Jubaeas as well) ;

When it comes to species that do not attract the RPW, I was told that Syagrus romanzoffiana palms are now planted in places like Nice (France) to replace dead CIDPs since the RPW tends to ignore them for now, but many French horticulturists believe it's just a matter of time, assuming that when RPW won't have any Phoenix left to eat, they'll attack other species (even other plants, like Yuccas !) ;

What should be done is prohibiting palm transit without phytosanitary certificates ; It works, drastically ;

That's what's being done here in Morocco, and honestly, even though it makes importing "exotic" palms (very) difficult and pricy, at least we don't have to treat our palms all year round ;

Btw, thanks a lot for the powerpoint !

Lots of Syagrus Romanzoffiana here, haven't seen any affected... yet...

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Jan Jo
On 11/23/2017, 10:00:31, Sanips said:

That sucks! I hope it recovers.

I always wondered what this nasty plague is going to eat after destroying all the CIDPs and washies...

Good luck and keep us informed.

Thanks! I'll keep you informed but it's looking bleak... 

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cartridge

A lot of information about the RPW can be found on the FAO-Site.

Very interesting is the

paper about the biological control/natural enemies of the RPW.

and the

Red Palm Weevil (Rhynchophorus ferrugineus) Chemical Treatments Applied on Ornamental Palms in Tunisia: Results of Extensive Experiments

See also the pics from a trunk of cocos nucifera. Weevil larvae bore tunnel in the coconut trunk from the top to the ground.

MANAGEMENT PROGRAMMES AND CHALLENGES IN RED PALM WEEVIL (RPW) CONTROL IN THE ASIA PACIFIC REGION

 

 

 

 

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Jan Jo
1 hour ago, cartridge said:

A lot of information about the RPW can be found on the FAO-Site.

Very interesting is the

paper about the biological control/natural enemies of the RPW.

and the

Red Palm Weevil (Rhynchophorus ferrugineus) Chemical Treatments Applied on Ornamental Palms in Tunisia: Results of Extensive Experiments

See also the pics from a trunk of cocos nucifera. Weevil larvae bore tunnel in the coconut trunk from the top to the ground.

MANAGEMENT PROGRAMMES AND CHALLENGES IN RED PALM WEEVIL (RPW) CONTROL IN THE ASIA PACIFIC REGION

 

 

 

 

Thanks! Very interesting (/depressing) read...

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Cikas
On 25. 11. 2017., Sandy Loam said:

Does this mean that no one living in a RPW zone should ever prune their palms, as a preventive measure?

I found this article showing maps of the current worldwide distribution of the Red Palm Weevil.  It also shows future predictions of where the RPW will move: 

http://journals.fcla.edu/flaent/article/viewFile/80382/77623

The future does not look good for palm growers in southern Europe.  Clearly, growers will have to select their palm species from among those which are not susceptible to the RPW.  (Do any exist?)

For those interested in all three palm weevils, I came across this simple powerpoint presentation as well:

http://entnemdept.ifas.ufl.edu/hodges/Collaborative/Documents/Palm_weevils.pdf

 

That map is not correct. RPW is also present on Croatian and Montenegro coast. 

Edited by Cikas
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Jan Jo

Well.... I tried, but...

20171213_130718-774x1032.thumb.jpg.62c2f

A couple of weeks later it looked like this.. the rot just kept spreading. So I finally faced the inevitable, and dug it up... it pretty much fell apart in my arms, the weevils had churned my poor Ravenea into soft cheese (no photos, too upsetting)... RIP...

Edited by Jan Jo
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Phoenikakias
On 11/22/2017, 11:27:44, Monòver said:

RPW loves Raveneas!!! 

You must not spray the crown, you must soak-shower the crown everytimes. The bugs are inside the crown and you need lots of insecticide to arrive inside the holes. 

May be in a palm like yours, 3-4 litres. 

In Summer fungal infection is not a problem for you, your place is windy and dry.

From March to November the best is spray every months.

Now you must soak with insecticide (clorpirifos or imidacloprid ) the holes and may be, mixed with fungicide( metil tiofanato).

Your palm is small and may be is too late to save it and now is the worst moment. Before Winter, cold and rain are not good friends in this situation.

Good luck!!!

Hola Antonio, is thiamethoxam (brand name Actara) still available in Spain? Here is it is not available anymore and this is pitiful, because it has proven here very effective especially for already infested palms. WAY more effective than imidacloprid, against which, I suspect, bugs have developed  resistance.

Edited by Phoenikakias

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Monòver

Yes, we are lucky and is still available in Spain.

 Here, tiametoxam is only authoriced for use in endotherapy, but every people use it  for soak the crown.

In this moment in Spain we can use imidacloprid and clorpirifos to spray or soak. And imidacloprid, tiametoxam and abamectine for endotherapy.

I think in the next months or years, the imidacloprid, tiametoxam and clorpirifos will be not available for the new european laws.

The future and may be the solution, will be with a new Syngenta insecticide, the Emamectine. This was experimented by Syngenta here in Elche and can keep alive the palms 9 months with only one endotherapy treatment.

The problem is the european laws. This insecticide has not european autorizathion and is prohibithed use it in palm trees.

Crazy laws, we have a clean solution for the red weevil, but we can't use it.

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Phoenikakias

Actually I have found  Actara today but not a moth ago. It probably receives a special seasonal licence for the summer months.

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Phoenikakias
1 hour ago, Monòver said:

Yes, we are lucky and is still available in Spain.

 Here, tiametoxam is only authoriced for use in endotherapy, but every people use it  for soak the crown.

In this moment in Spain we can use imidacloprid and clorpirifos to spray or soak. And imidacloprid, tiametoxam and abamectine for endotherapy.

I think in the next months or years, the imidacloprid, tiametoxam and clorpirifos will be not available for the new european laws.

The future and may be the solution, will be with a new Syngenta insecticide, the Emamectine. This was experimented by Syngenta here in Elche and can keep alive the palms 9 months with only one endotherapy treatment.

The problem is the european laws. This insecticide has not european autorizathion and is prohibithed use it in palm trees.

Crazy laws, we have a clean solution for the red weevil, but we can't use it.

Endotherapy is not a solution for juvenile palms without a fully developed trunk. I had probed this method on such young palms of mine (actually I had used the thin "Moget" tubes and ended up with awful scars on future trunks, which must be sealed up occasionally with polyurethan). Yet also those young palms are susceptible especially to a paysandisia infestation. Also many CIDP's without a visible trunk got killed by rpw; it simply does not attack the palm from above but rather exactly at the basal plate, meaning there are no visible signs of infestation like holes on leaf bases or chewed new fronds, only a sudden collapse of the whole plant resembling quite a decline due to phytophthora. I did report before that exactly this happened on a young CIDP in my mother-in-law's garden. Even I, could not be sure at first of the real reason for its sudden decline, as the poor palm started showing signs only of severe dehydration. Only after I had removed almost the entire plant, I came across buried cocoons and dead adults RIGHT BELOW the basal plate inside the soil...

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Nakheel1412

Honestly, I do believe such products can have detrimental effects on both the environment and the people, therefore forbiding unregulated usage makes sense, yet the big problem is how prohibitively expensive palm treatment is going to become ;

In France, selling such insecticides to non-professionals will be completely prohibited in a few months, which means only "qualified professionals" (only the legal status matters, many are incompetent) will have the right to buy and use them ; Since I highly doubt professional gardeners won't try to use this monopoly to make a lot of profit, one will have to spent huge amounts of money to have his palm treated...

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Monòver
1 hour ago, Nakheel1412 said:

Honestly, I do believe such products can have detrimental effects on both the environment and the people, therefore forbiding unregulated usage makes sense, yet the big problem is how prohibitively expensive palm treatment is going to become ;

In France, selling such insecticides to non-professionals will be completely prohibited in a few months, which means only "qualified professionals" (only the legal status matters, many are incompetent) will have the right to buy and use them ; Since I highly doubt professional gardeners won't try to use this monopoly to make a lot of profit, one will have to spent huge amounts of money to have his palm treated...

In Spain we have the same law since two years ago. Only professionals can buy these insecticides and use it.

In my opinion is a good mesure. Insecticides are poison and are dangerous. I think not everybody must use these quemicals.

I am a professional and i can tell you, i am not winning money with this. These quemicals are cheap and people pay me a low price for them. The only thing expensive is my handwork. Lol

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Monòver
2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Endotherapy is not a solution for juvenile palms without a fully developed trunk. I had probed this method on such young palms of mine (actually I had used the thin "Moget" tubes and ended up with awful scars on future trunks, which must be sealed up occasionally with polyurethan). Yet also those young palms are susceptible especially to a paysandisia infestation. Also many CIDP's without a visible trunk got killed by rpw; it simply does not attack the palm from above but rather exactly at the basal plate, meaning there are no visible signs of infestation like holes on leaf bases or chewed new fronds, only a sudden collapse of the whole plant resembling quite a decline due to phytophthora. I did report before that exactly this happened on a young CIDP in my mother-in-law's garden. Even I, could not be sure at first of the real reason for its sudden decline, as the poor palm started showing signs only of severe dehydration. Only after I had removed almost the entire plant, I came across buried cocoons and dead adults RIGHT BELOW the basal plate inside the soil...

Yes, endotherapy is not the best for young palms. With the common insecticides, in my opinion, for small or big palms the best is soak the crown. After a very long time fighting against the red weevil, with hundreds( or thousands) palms treathed in my work i know if you have red weevils, you must soak. Endotheraphy is a good option when the red weevil is not in the crown, is in the trunk.

But i have seen how emamectine works in infected palms and is amazing. After the endotherapy with this insecticide, the palm was recoverd and with no issues in a long time.

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Nakheel1412
22 minutes ago, Monòver said:

In Spain we have the same law since two years ago. Only professionals can buy these insecticides and use it.

In my opinion is a good mesure. Insecticides are poison and are dangerous. I think not everybody must use these quemicals.

I am a professional and i can tell you, i am not winning money with this. These quemicals are cheap and people pay me a low price for them. The only thing expensive is my handwork. Lol

I had no idea you were a professional (and I have no doubt about you being qualified and pricing fairly your handwork, my comment wasn't aimed at you at all :blush:), it's just that we've gotten so used to see people being abused with overpricing (in all fields, not restricted to gardening) that we unfortunately expect to see such things happen all the time ;
Sorry if my comment offended you or anyone from this field :blush:

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Monòver
8 hours ago, Nakheel1412 said:

I had no idea you were a professional (and I have no doubt about you being qualified and pricing fairly your handwork, my comment wasn't aimed at you at all :blush:), it's just that we've gotten so used to see people being abused with overpricing (in all fields, not restricted to gardening) that we unfortunately expect to see such things happen all the time ;
Sorry if my comment offended you or anyone from this field :blush:

:floor: don't worry, i am not offended. This is a open forum and members are free to explain what is in its minds.

I don't know the French laws, but in Spain, obtain the official permision to buy insecticides is very easy. An aficionado with palms who wants to do his own treatments, can do the course to have the permission. In 16 hours is done and paying a small tax.

I think this is a good thing because the aficionado can learn how to use this quemicals.

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Nakheel1412
3 hours ago, Monòver said:

:floor: don't worry, i am not offended. This is a open forum and members are free to explain what is in its minds.

Open forum or not, I should be careful not to say rude things... :blush:
Thank you for kindness ! :blush:

3 hours ago, Monòver said:

I don't know the French laws, but in Spain, obtain the official permision to buy insecticides is very easy. An aficionado with palms who wants to do his own treatments, can do the course to have the permission. In 16 hours is done and paying a small tax.

I think this is a good thing because the aficionado can learn how to use this quemicals.

Excellent !!!! :):):)
With this, people are being given a very nice alternative ; I don't know how it works in France, but this is an excellent option for sure !

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