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fr8train

Types of coconuts...

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fr8train

So I was reading about different varieties of coconuts, but I haven't been able to find out too much. I had no idea there was so much verity, from the size of the adult plants to the seeds. Is anyone here growing one of the more unusual verities here? I noticed there are “Tahiti Reds” available on ebay, is anyone growing one?

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Does anyone know what types of coconuts these are, since they're not labled?

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fr8train

Also, does anyone know which dwarf form is the smallest?

nv6wep.jpg

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Zeeth

I'm growing a Tahiti red dwarf. It's the second from the left in your second picture. It's a petite variety with petioles that have a more orange color than the orange Malayan. I would describe it as sunset orange. I would describe it as the most petite coconut variety that I know. I'm also growing Jamaican tall, two types of Hawaiian tall, Panama tall, Criollo tall (very similar to the Jamaican tall) and Fiji dwarf. The Fiji dwarf stays very short, but is a very stocky variety.

Here's that picture with the types labelled: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4994/1691/1600/Fruit%20shapes.jpg

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fr8train

I'm growing a Tahiti red dwarf. It's the second from the left in your second picture. It's a petite variety with petioles that have a more orange color than the orange Malayan. I would describe it as sunset orange. I would describe it as the most petite coconut variety that I know. I'm also growing Jamaican tall, two types of Hawaiian tall, Panama tall, Criollo tall (very similar to the Jamaican tall) and Fiji dwarf. The Fiji dwarf stays very short, but is a very stocky variety.

Here's that picture with the types labelled: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4994/1691/1600/Fruit%20shapes.jpg

Do you have any pictures of your coconuts? Thanks for the link btw

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fr8train

What the heck is this thing?

2ii9a4i.jpg

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Zeeth

I'm growing a Tahiti red dwarf. It's the second from the left in your second picture. It's a petite variety with petioles that have a more orange color than the orange Malayan. I would describe it as sunset orange. I would describe it as the most petite coconut variety that I know. I'm also growing Jamaican tall, two types of Hawaiian tall, Panama tall, Criollo tall (very similar to the Jamaican tall) and Fiji dwarf. The Fiji dwarf stays very short, but is a very stocky variety.

Here's that picture with the types labelled: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4994/1691/1600/Fruit%20shapes.jpg

Do you have any pictures of your coconuts? Thanks for the link btw

Here's the Tahiti red dwarf

IMG_3248.jpg

IMG_3249.jpg

Here's the orange variety of Hawaiian tall

IMG_3251.jpg

Other

IMG_3250.jpg

Here's the green variety Hawaiian tall

IMG_3244.jpg

Jamaican tall

IMG_3245.jpg

Here's a golden tall type I found locally

post-3598-0-66530600-1425334175_thumb.jp

Here's a Panama tall

post-3598-0-74075400-1425334342_thumb.jp

Criollo tall

post-3598-0-82708700-1425334453_thumb.jp

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fr8train

I noticed your Criollo tall is one of the huskless coconuts you've sprouted. How did you find out what variety it was? That's a great collection.

Edited by fr8train

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Zeeth

I noticed your Criollo tall is one of the huskless coconuts you've sprouted. How did you find out what variety it was? That's a great collection.

Yeah it is! I was trying to find out what kind of coconuts were grown in the Dominican Republic where mine came from and I came across this article:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11295-009-0229-6#page-1

Almost all of the plantations grow the Criollo tall, as it was never affected by Lethal yellowing. I'm interested to see how it looks as it gets older.

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Zeeth

If you're interested in different varieties though, check out this website:

http://www.cogentnetwork.org/conserved-germplasm-catalogue

It doesn't cover everything (Caribbean varieties are notably absent, as well as the Hawaiian varieties), but what it does cover is pretty interesting to read.

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Jim in Los Altos

Is it really true that the Jamaican tall is a bit more cold hardy than the rest?

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Zeeth

Is it really true that the Jamaican tall is a bit more cold hardy than the rest?

I think it's more true to say that Malayans are just less hardy. My green petiole Hawaiian tall seems about as hardy as my Jamaican tall does (though the orange petiole ones seem to lose leaves when the temperatures go much below 70 degrees). In 2010 the Jamaican talls seemed to have the same amount of damage as the Malayans, but they grew out of the damage better and they had a much higher survival rate than the Malayans. Maypans had better survival than Malayans, but not as high as the Jamaican talls. My Panama tall was in Venice for 2010 but it went through 29 F without too much trouble. My Hawaiian tall and Jamaican tall didn't experience January of 2010, which was the month of extended cold, but they saw 27 F in December 2010 with little damage, though the temperatures didn't stay cold for very long.

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Coconutman

I don't know this but my hawaiian tall seems to adjust to more variations of temperatures better than my dwarfs.

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Tropicgardener

We have many different forms of Coconut that occur on our islands and beaches around here, none are named and I think that they are possibly a mixture of native and introduced forms.

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Ken Johnson

Here is a "spicata" growing on my farm!

post-50-0-71673000-1425398595_thumb.jpg

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fr8train

If you're interested in different varieties though, check out this website:

http://www.cogentnetwork.org/conserved-germplasm-catalogue

It doesn't cover everything (Caribbean varieties are notably absent, as well as the Hawaiian varieties), but what it does cover is pretty interesting to read.

Nice, thanks.

Someone is Iowa has managed to keep one alive for 15 years. It seems keeping it potted for so long has kept it dwarfed. I wonder what variety it is.

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25s6fr4.jpg

Edited by fr8train

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fr8train

Here is a "spicata" growing on my farm!

Looks great. I wish I lived in a climate where I could grow one outdoors.

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Mr. Coconut Palm

For cold hardiness, I think the pure Mexican Tall is probably the most cold hardy in the Western Hemisphere. I estimate that it is hardy down to 26F, and it is found along the Gulf Coast of Mexico. The pure Jamaican Tall is the 2nd most cold hardy in the Western Hemisphere, and is likely hardy down to 27F As many of you know, tall variety coconut palms readily hybridize with nearby dwarf palms, so getting pure tall nuts for sprouting may be difficult. Also, I think viable nuts from mature coconut palms growing at the northernmost limit of their range, should produce somewhat more cold hardy offspring than nuts from mature trees significantly further south. For instance, viable nuts from mature Mexican Talls in Matamoros, Mexico should produce somewhat more cold hardy offspring than viable nuts from the same variety tree growing in Veracruz, Mexico.

Also, I think there is more to cold hardiness than just normal lowest minimum temps each winter. Here in South Texas, our coconut palms can take the occasional freeze down to 29F or 30F easier than they can take a week or two with lows in the upper 30's and highs only in the 40's and low 50's with chilly rain. Prolonged chilly damp weather kills more of our South Texas coconut palms than the occasional freeze, especially if people in the Rio Grande Valley over water their palms in the winter and then we get hit with some extended chilly (but above freezing) weather. Much of the Rio Grande Valley has a lot of clay in the soil, thus retaining more moisture in wet periods, and coconuts palms HATE chilly damp roots, and they HATE chilly damp crowns for extended periods. Therefore for us here at least, the best varieties would be ones that come from areas that have cooler wetter winters than some of the more cold sensitive varieties. Speaking of cold sensitive varieties, the Fiji Dwarf, apparently is one of the most cold sensitive varieties. I know a nursery grower in the Rio Grande Valley outside of Brownsville that had both Green Malayan Dwarfs and some Fiji Dwarfs in the ground when the 2011 freeze hit. She lost all of her in ground Fiji Dwarfs, but her Green Malayans fared better, though injured. The Fiji Dwarf may only be hardy to about 31F, but does seem to be 100% resistant to Lethal Yellowing.

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fr8train

I didn't know there were coconuts growing in the Rio Grande Valley, I've only seen (a picture) the one growing on South Padre Island. I didn't Matamoros had them either.

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Mr. Coconut Palm

Yes, there are some nice mature Mexican Talls 30-50ft. tall in overall height (a few since it's hard to get viable nuts across the border and many of the beach coconuts that wash up from Mexico every year that people sprout are hybrid crosses between the Mexican Tall and one of the Malayan Dwarf varieties) and there are some nice mature Malayan Dwarfs ( mostly Green Malayans, but a few Golden Malayans) in the 20 -25 ft. tall overall height range with coconuts (the ones that are adequately watered that is, since the Lower Rio Grande Valley is a semi arid climate of about 23 - 27 inches of rainfall per year).

As far as rainfall is concerned, I think the Valley probably averaged about 28 to about 32 inches per year or slightly more about 150+ years ago before all the native subtropical jungle along the Rio Grande was destroyed to make way for tens of thousands of acres of agricultural land. Now only about 2% of the original native forest exists. It would have really been neat to see it back then. It is estimated that when the Spanish explorers first arrived at the Rio Grande Delta, that the Palm forest (Sabal Mexicana) jungle went about 80 miles or more inland almost to where Falcon Lake is today. Back then, the big tropical jaguar cat from Mexico and Central America still roamed the jungles along the Rio Grande Valley and was even occasionally reported as far north as about Victoria in the summer. The last jaguar was spotted in the Valley I think about 50 or 60 years ago. We also have the jaguarondi and ocelots (two smaller tropical cats) there, but only in small remaining numbers. We have the Mexican red crowned parrot that is native to the Valley and the green parakeet (more like the size of a conure sine it is larger than the parakeets sold in pet shops) that are native to the Valley. We actually have a breeding population of green parakeets here in Corpus Christi. I have read that we used to have the yellow parakeet in the Valley too, but the plume hunters killed them all off about a 100+years ago. We also have tropical green jays, atltimira orioles, chachalacs, and a big non poisonous tropical snake called the indigo that is a midnight indigo blue color and gets to be about 7-8ft. long. They are good to have around to keep rats down. And then there are the big Valley tarantulas too. Some pretty neat things in the Lower Rio Grande Valley.

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Mr. Coconut Palm

There are efforts by the federal and state government as well as some private land owners to restore some of the native palm forest jungle along the Rio Grande River. Supposedly, there is a plan to make a fairly long green belt of restored palm forest from about where McAllen is to the Rio Grande Delta.

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Jose Maria

If you're interested in different varieties though, check out this website:

http://www.cogentnetwork.org/conserved-germplasm-catalogue

It doesn't cover everything (Caribbean varieties are notably absent, as well as the Hawaiian varieties), but what it does cover is pretty interesting to read.

Thanks for the information , this website is amazing. It is interesting to read and get a good idea of all varieties.

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fr8train

Yes, there are some nice mature Mexican Talls 30-50ft. tall in overall height (a few since it's hard to get viable nuts across the border and many of the beach coconuts that wash up from Mexico every year that people sprout are hybrid crosses between the Mexican Tall and one of the Malayan Dwarf varieties) and there are some nice mature Malayan Dwarfs ( mostly Green Malayans, but a few Golden Malayans) in the 20 -25 ft. tall overall height range with coconuts (the ones that are adequately watered that is, since the Lower Rio Grande Valley is a semi arid climate of about 23 - 27 inches of rainfall per year).

I was looking around the streets of Matamoros on street view, and surprisingly I found a couple of coconuts, pretty far inland too. You wouldn't happen to have any photos of cocos in the Rio Grande Valley?

And then there are the big Valley tarantulas too. Some pretty neat things in the Lower Rio Grande Valley.

I don't if I'd be too thrilled to run into one :bemused:

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empireo22

Yes, there are some nice mature Mexican Talls 30-50ft. tall in overall height (a few since it's hard to get viable nuts across the border and many of the beach coconuts that wash up from Mexico every year that people sprout are hybrid crosses between the Mexican Tall and one of the Malayan Dwarf varieties) and there are some nice mature Malayan Dwarfs ( mostly Green Malayans, but a few Golden Malayans) in the 20 -25 ft. tall overall height range with coconuts (the ones that are adequately watered that is, since the Lower Rio Grande Valley is a semi arid climate of about 23 - 27 inches of rainfall per year).

I was looking around the streets of Matamoros on street view, and surprisingly I found a couple of coconuts, pretty far inland too. You wouldn't happen to have any photos of cocos in the Rio Grande Valley?

And then there are the big Valley tarantulas too. Some pretty neat things in the Lower Rio Grande Valley.

I don't if I'd be too thrilled to run into one :bemused:

On my first attempt I found a cocos and a backhoe operator reading the paper in Matamoros.

https://goo.gl/maps/A5P4W

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Mr. Coconut Palm

Hi Tad,

I do have some pretty good photos of Rio Grande Valley coconut palms. I have had a hard time uploading them to Palmtalk though. They always say my photos are too big, and I am not tech savvy enough to resize them. So just send me your email address and I'll email the photos to you.

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm

Alex,

That photo you posted of a coconut palm in Matamoros looks like a Mexican Tall, and if I had to guess, it probably has about 8ft. of woody trunk. They can get to be about 45-50ft. tall in overall height there with about 25-30ft. of woody trunk. Since this is the most cold hardy variety in the Western Hemisphere, it is the one variety I would really like to get some of, but getting them across the border is virtually impossible due to U.S. agricultural and customs restrictions. So much for NAFTA, LOL! The only chance I have is sprouting as many viable beach coconuts as I can that wash up on Padre Island every year and hope that a few of them turn out to be pure Mexican Talls (Most of the beach coconuts though sprout as hybrids between Mexican Talls and Malayans or as pure Malayans).

John

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fr8train

Hi Tad,

I do have some pretty good photos of Rio Grande Valley coconut palms. I have had a hard time uploading them to Palmtalk though. They always say my photos are too big, and I am not tech savvy enough to resize them. So just send me your email address and I'll email the photos to you.

John

Yeah, that'd be great, I'd love to see them.

My email is arillinoming@gmail.com

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