Jump to content
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Cold hardy dypsis

Recommended Posts

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

We need a comprehensive list of cold hardy dypsis, and a list of dypsis that just wouldn't work in the cold so we don't wast time trying. I am going to give this a shot with this thread.

Stuff that's already proven itself:

1. dypsis decipiens, 22F, actively grows in the 45-70F range

- Norcal Sunset zones 9, 14-17

- Central Florida?

2. dypsis baronii, 28F, grows fast in 45-70F range

- Norcal Sunset zones 16, sheltered locations in 14, 15, 17

- Central Florida?

3. dypsis ambositrae,27F?, grows fast in 45-70F range

- Norcal Sunset zones 16, sheltered locations in 14, 15, 17

- Central Florida?

4. dypsis onilahensis, 27F? seems to grow in 55F+ range

- Norcal Sunset zones 15, 16, shelter in 14, not feasible in 17 due to lack of heat

- Would seem to be a good one for Central Florida

5. dypsis heteromorpha, 26F?, grows fast in the 65-90F range, not a cool grower

- Norcal Sunset zones 15, 16, sheltered in 15, not feasible in 17 due to lack of heat

- Seems like a great candidate for Central and Northern Florida?

Stuff that's promising:

1. dypsis psamophilla, 28F?, grows fast in 45-70F range

- Norcal Sunset zones 16, sheltered locations in 15, 17

- Central Florida?

2. dypsis utilis, 27F? grows fast in the 50-80F range

- Norcal Sunset zones 16, sheltered locations in 14, 15, not feasible in 17 due to lack of heat

- Another great one for at least Central Florida?

3. dypsis scottiana

- No idea on hardiness, trying this out and seems to grow in cool weather, comes from a dry place so should be able to take some cold.

4. dypsis slick willie

- The tiniest of seedling that I should not have planted out is actually growing still. If I could get my hands on a big one it would surely succeed here.

5. dypsis robusta

- going strong despite cool weather. Sorta slow, seems to need warmer temps to grow well. I suspect it needs more heat units than what our climate can provide.

6. dypsis decaryi x dypsis leptocheilos

- very promising.

These would really be pleasant surprises if they succeeded but they're definitely the least likely to have any long term viability here mostly due to lack of heat units:

1. dypsis saintlucei

- again, no idea on hardiness, definitely requires more heat than all of the above. Mine is stagnant outside of the peak Summer months, but hoping this would change.

2. dypsis prestoniana

- totally experimental up here, super slow so far, no movement at all on this plant.

3. dypsis orange crush

- very little movement on these.

4. dypsis decaryi

- super, super slow, not likely to do well here. And this thing isn't very hardy but I've seen them grow in Riverside, so they've got to have some cold tolerance built in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mandrew968

I hope they all do well for you and thank you, for being so methodical with your posts. Although you sometimes draw a conclusion that I may not agree with, the information is there for anyone to take and digest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

Axel, provided you remember any information given by me about the climate in my garden, could you take a guess to which sunset zone does it fit in ? Unfortunately various plants used for finding the proper zone are missing or are very rare in Greece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Axel, provided you remember any information given by me about the climate in my garden, could you take a guess to which sunset zone does it fit in ? Unfortunately various plants used for finding the proper zone are missing or are very rare in Greece.

Sunset zone 21 Summer, 15 Winter.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

Yep, indeed a schizo climate for palms. Hopefully it does not affect also my mentality :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
empireo22

I tried Dypsis baronii, in the winter it grew, but it died early summer with spear pull.

Would like to try again though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alicehunter2000

This Dypsis decaryi has been here for a number of years. It is on the northside of a beachfront home near Seaside Florida. Northwest Florida Gulf Coast between Panama City and Destin. It has seen some cold winters, including the 2009 and 2010 long duration freezes.

post-97-0-48841100-1387315917_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

I hope they all do well for you and thank you, for being so methodical with your posts. Although you sometimes draw a conclusion that I may not agree with, the information is there for anyone to take and digest.

You should point out where I say stuff that you think is bogus. Most of what I say is stated more as a thesis, i.e. could be true but may not be. It's going to take a few years to really see how these do. I only have reliable Norcal growing data for decipiens, baronii, onilahensis and heteromorpha.

I tried Dypsis baronii, in the winter it grew, but it died early summer with spear pull.

Would like to try again though

From what I hear, there is a lot of variation on baronii, even to the point that some sucker and some divide and don't sucker. There's got to be a lower elevation form that would do better in Florida.

This Dypsis decaryi has been here for a number of years. It is on the northside of a beachfront home near Seaside Florida. Northwest Florida Gulf Coast between Panama City and Destin. It has seen some cold winters, including the 2009 and 2010 long duration freezes.

attachicon.gifpost-97-0-71750100-1351208734.jpg

Decaryi is definitely on the cold hardy list, but it's not one that seems to do well with our cool Summer nights. I've got one of these I grew as a houseplant and eventually put it outside when it outgrew its house spot. It immediately went into a funk and has never recovered, it's still sitting there but not doing anything. I got a seedling given to me from someone else, will see how that does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Dypsis robusta #2 from Floribunda, planted Aug 2013; notice new spear coming up in the center.

20131217_101319_zps113470bc.jpg

20131217_101341_zps4169e93a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Dypsis robusta #1 planted February 2013, from Perito. Notice an even healthier new spear coming up on this one. If both of these make it through to Spring, then they might take off. So far, I find them painfully slow, the current rate appears to be 2 fronds per year based on this specimen. I just hope this is because they are still getting established. It's bone dry out here, these are on consistent drip, it's moist all the way down under the plant. I am withholding fertilizer until February.

20131217_101444_zps06350e70.jpg

20131217_101510_zps95549377.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
joe_OC

Have you checked out the "freeze damage data" tab? We have been adding information about each species in there for a while now. You can pick a palm and see what people have observed over a seven year period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Have you checked out the "freeze damage data" tab? We have been adding information about each species in there for a while now. You can pick a palm and see what people have observed over a seven year period.

Yes I have, seems spotty at best, wasn't able to find a lot of info, just a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
palmsnbananas

Saint Lucei Decipiens and Decaryi are in their own class I believe, in terms of the cold hardiest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmə häl′ik

Whats "cold hardy" mean? All palms have some "cold hardiness" to em...

Could this D. cabadae be cold hardy?

I seen frost on some rooftops yesterday morning, but I think we only got down to 36F... I dont pay attention anymore unless there are frost warnings....

These palms never see frost on em anyways due to oak canopy...

- Ray.

post-3028-0-50587700-1387366067_thumb.jp

post-3028-0-23010600-1387366142_thumb.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmə häl′ik

Shes soooo-o fine...

TriBear of love:

post-3028-0-44692300-1387366702_thumb.jp

post-3028-0-48520500-1387366787_thumb.jp

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmə häl′ik

...and heres a CentralFL ambositrae:

post-3028-0-76001300-1387368937_thumb.jp

post-3028-0-50480700-1387369099_thumb.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funkthulhu

I would still love to try growing any dypsis in my north of LAT40 container ranch. . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Whats "cold hardy" mean? All palms have some "cold hardiness" to em...

Could this D. cabadae be cold hardy?

I seen frost on some rooftops yesterday morning, but I think we only got down to 36F... I dont pay attention anymore unless there are frost warnings....

These palms never see frost on em anyways due to oak canopy...

- Ray.

Cold hardy means a palm can handle extended periods of chill (at least more than 300-400 chill hours per Winter) and frost. If you have areas that never see frost, then a palm that grows successfully there would not be considered cold hardy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
buffy

My Dypsis onilahensis probably saw 24F with a blanket a week ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

My Dypsis onilahensis probably saw 24F with a blanket a week ago.

How did it fare?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmə häl′ik

...so the only one on your list that is "cold tolerant" would be the double d eh?

(D.decipiens)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmə häl′ik

I cant see none of the others in a fully exposed frost laden area makin it through; as described per your definition...

For instance, the middle of a frost filled high school football field in Polk Co, FL i.e. Lakeland.

Frost is a killer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alicehunter2000

Saint Lucei Decipiens and Decaryi are in their own class I believe, in terms of the cold hardiest.

Give us your take on D. saintlucei ......... heard rumors that some have had success with this seemingly more hardy than most Dypsis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sutter Bob

I cant see none of the others in a fully exposed frost laden area makin it through; as described per your definition...

For instance, the middle of a frost filled high school football field in Polk Co, FL i.e. Lakeland.

Frost is a killer!

I agree. More than half of the palms I am growing wouldn't survive here without cover.

Our recent dry cold (which generated relatively little frost) seemed much less harmful (at least as far as immediate damage) than warmer frosts in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mauna Kea Cloudforest

I cant see none of the others in a fully exposed frost laden area makin it through; as described per your definition...

For instance, the middle of a frost filled high school football field in Polk Co, FL i.e. Lakeland.

Frost is a killer!

You're right, and it depends what you define as frost. I've seen frost filled meadows at 35F air temperature. Now I wouldn't be surprised if most of these dypsis didn't tolerate any form of ice crystals on their leaves. So I understand your statement. In Florida you're much more likely to run into frost as the cold arctic air mixes with the warmer, moister Gulf air, so I get why this matters the most there.

But frost is only one aspect of cold tolerance. There are two more dimensions that matter, especially here out West in the colder parts of California:

1) tolerance for below freezing conditions without frost, For example, dypsis baronii tissue can take down to 28F without actually forming ice crystals in the cells if there isn't any frost present on the leaf surface.

2) chill hours, these are the hours between 32F and 45F. Many dypsis can't handle much chill, maybe 50-100 hours. The dypsis I listed all can take several hundreds of hours in this temperature range without root rot and complete decline. This is a problem that you don't have to deal with in Florida.

Without 1) and 2), we wouldn't be able to grow a dypsis under canopy here in Central and Norcal. But in Central Florida, if you have canopy, your choice of dypsis is much broader because you don't have to worry about much chill tolerance. After the cold front is passed, your temps rebound to 50-60F lows.

I cant see none of the others in a fully exposed frost laden area makin it through; as described per your definition...

For instance, the middle of a frost filled high school football field in Polk Co, FL i.e. Lakeland.

Frost is a killer!

I agree. More than half of the palms I am growing wouldn't survive here without cover.

Our recent dry cold (which generated relatively little frost) seemed much less harmful (at least as far as immediate damage) than warmer frosts in the past.

I agree, most of the dypsis I listed have some sort of canopy or hillside air drainage in my garden, I wouldn't dare plant them out in a flat open space in this part of the State. But dyspis heteromorpha apparently can handle even some frost, and I would not be surprised if dypsis ambositrae could do the same thing. Same is true for dypsis utilis, it looks like it has tough leaves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cikas

Whats "cold hardy" mean? All palms have some "cold hardiness" to em...

Could this D. cabadae be cold hardy?

I seen frost on some rooftops yesterday morning, but I think we only got down to 36F... I dont pay attention anymore unless there are frost warnings....

These palms never see frost on em anyways due to oak canopy...

- Ray.

Plants that can survive temperatures below freezing are ''cold hardy plants''.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmə häl′ik

Hmm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sonoranfans

Yep dypsis decipiens is the only one that will take a good frost with no cover.... end of discussion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
buffy

My Dypsis onilahensis probably saw 24F with a blanket a week ago.

Buried this thing in leaves for the 15F freeze. Not too promising.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alicehunter2000

Buffy do you have a D. decipiens?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sutter Bob

Of several tries with onilahensis, the only survivor has been one right by the south side of my house.

That one appears to have settled in and has shown growth in the last two weeks.

All baronii also by south side of house likewise growing last two weeks.

Ambositrae under cover pretty hopeful so far. A santalucei in a pretty good spot just sits there.

Two betafaka strike me as intermediate in cold tolerance between decipiens and baronii,

Now up to five decipiens. They definitely are winners in the central valley as proven by Jeff Earl in Modesto.

In past years here no luck with pembana, nauseosa, or leptocheilos.

This winter has been pretty easy on my few carefully sited Dypsis (not so for small unprotected Jubaea and P. torallyi).

I suspect there might be more species that could grow here in the right spots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matthew92

This Dypsis decaryi has been here for a number of years. It is on the northside of a beachfront home near Seaside Florida. Northwest Florida Gulf Coast between Panama City and Destin. It has seen some cold winters, including the 2009 and 2010 long duration freezes.

 

post-97-0-48841100-1387315917_thumb.jpg

 

 

Wow, never in my wildest dreams would I think that triangle palm could grow up here in the frigid Panhandle, even in a micro-climate. Now the big question, did it survive these last two winters? (2014 especially) I don't think it could unless majorly protected.

Edited by Opal92

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sutter Bob

An update on things here.

Lost my biggest decipiens this spring - not sure what happened to it. Was out in the open, Maybe just cold wet roots. Maybe too much herbicide nearby. It was a beauty. Was a relatively mild winter. I wish I would have planted it a little higher. Will probably try a few more around here.

Also lost a small one which had been struggling. Two in protected spots are ticking away. Both betafaka ticking away. Onilahensis ticking away. Two ambositrae ticking away.

Multiple baronii doing quite well with cover. Planted a decaryii this spring - it has grown nicely. It's not really protected but might be a little bit some day by a parajubaea which is looking strong. Santa Lucei barely moving.

These Dypsis are not slam dunks but with a little protection appear to be worth a try in the Sacramento Valley. I'm planning on not babying them much this winter.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

An update on things here.

Lost my biggest decipiens this spring - not sure what happened to it. Was out in the open, Maybe just cold wet roots. Maybe too much herbicide nearby. It was a beauty. Was a relatively mild winter. I wish I would have planted it a little higher. Will probably try a few more around here.

Also lost a small one which had been struggling. Two in protected spots are ticking away. Both betafaka ticking away. Onilahensis ticking away. Two ambositrae ticking away.

Multiple baronii doing quite well with cover. Planted a decaryii this spring - it has grown nicely. It's not really protected but might be a little bit some day by a parajubaea which is looking strong. Santa Lucei barely moving.

These Dypsis are not slam dunks but with a little protection appear to be worth a try in the Sacramento Valley. I'm planning on not babying them much this winter.

 

 

Experimenting with many of the same here in the East Bay. Should make for an interesting winter!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sutter Bob

No matter what we need rain.

Eager to hear how things go in Clayton.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Laaz

I don't see any mention of Dypsis lutescens which should be hardy to around 20F

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cikas

I don't see any mention of Dypsis lutescens which should be hardy to around 20F

In Florida maybe. In Mediterranean climate Dypsis lutescens is USDA 10a palm.

It is very tender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh-O

I had 10 5 gals still in the pot take 30F for a couple hours 3 days in a row and didn't even blink.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandy Loam

USDA zone 10a sounds about right. You would never see a dypsis lutenscens up here in the north of Florida. However, you see giant hedges of them in Orlando, Florida and Tampa, Florida, just two hours south of here in zone 10a.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh-O

sounds like you are in zone 9B ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...