C. alba Zone 9a hardy?

[_Keith]

We will soon find out. Early this spring I was gifted 3 little C. alba. Soon, they will face their first winter. I am wishing them a mild one to get off the ground. Here is one, looking pretty good.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

They handle -5C in Argentina, sounds like a 9a palm to me.

Here's what Gaston Torres has to say: http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Copernicia/albaB.html

This is the most cold-resistant of all Copernicia species (-5°C), and grows in forest and ranges throughout north of Argentina. The leaves are palmate, grey to green; fruits are black and ovoid; seeds germinate easy and quickly if fresh.

[_Keith]

They handle -5C in Argentina, sounds like a 9a palm to me.

Here's what Gaston Torres has to say: http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Copernicia/albaB.html

This is the most cold-resistant of all Copernicia species (-5°C), and grows in forest and ranges throughout north of Argentina. The leaves are palmate, grey to green; fruits are black and ovoid; seeds germinate easy and quickly if fresh.

I am more worried about the frost situation here, than absolute low. I have 1 in a frost free environment, and the other 2 will get some frost.

[tank]

I have both C. prunifera and alba doing well at my house in Gainesville. The local botanical garden has a few mature specimens so I'd say it is a 9a palm and possibly then some.

[_Keith]

I

I have both C. prunifera and alba doing well at my house in Gainesville. The local botanical garden has a few mature specimens so I'd say it is a 9a palm and possibly then some.

I wonder if there is another C. alba in the ground in Louisiana. It stands to reason that somewhere there might be, but I am not aware of one.

[tank]

BTW Keith, Alba and prunifera both like quite a bit of water during the summer. You really can't over water these in my experience and they grow DRAMATICALLY faster with adequate water. I believe both species are found in wetland areas and are inundated at least part of the year. I have a prunifera that I planted in a very dry part of my yard and it has barely moved over the past three years. Got it on drip irrigation about 3 months ago and the thing has taken off.

[_Keith]

Well, water has certainly not been an issue this year, and our winters are always wet. Should by chance our seasons return to normal, I'll need to watch them next spring.

[edbrown_III]

_{I have had this one growing for a while in Jax I dont know what lethal temp sowhere between 20Fannd 10F}

_{Best regards}

_Ed

[Xenon]

There's a large one at the Houston Zoo

[cajuntropics]

I have four panted out here in Plaq. The biggest one is 10 ft. They made it through '06 winter

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Keith, i can only dream of growing a c. alba to the size yours will be in just 5 years. They are ssssllllloooooooowwwwwwww for me even if they are hardy. Oddly enough, my prunifera grows like a weed compared to alba.

[_Keith]

I have four panted out here in Plaq. The biggest one is 10 ft. They made it through '06 winter

What are the two palms in your front yard?

[cajuntropics]

Keith, the two biggest copernicia albas I have were planed in '05...as you know, they've seen some cold since then Jeff

[Shirleypalmpaws]

Guys, you're making me want a Copernicia alba! Hey, Tank, I think in one of your posts, you might have said you had a blue form?---(don't mean to hijack thread!!)

[tank]

Guys, you're making me want a Copernicia alba! Hey, Tank, I think in one of your posts, you might have said you had a blue form?---(don't mean to hijack thread!!)

Hi,

I've never seen an C. alba that eventually didn't turn blue/whiteish, so you should be good with what ever you end up with, although they do vary on how much wax they produce. I bought a nice 15 gal stark white C. alba from a nursery near you, Rockledge Nursery I think. If you're looking to get one, I'd try and get one larger than 3 gal. At this size they really start to pick up speed and the plant should be showing really good color. If I lived in your area, my yard would be full of copernicias, especially if you're between the intercoastal and the Atlantic.

[Shirleypalmpaws]

(((Thanks Tank!!))) I'm just flipping all over on the inside with excitement because Rockledge Gardens is right up US1, and I am pretty sure there are two available in large size. I held off because I am such a chicken! lol You enabler you.

I am still in a state of confusion over my zone. We live one mile from the Indian river:

^Red x is us. ^Indian River ^Banana River ^Atlantic

[tank]

I would think you're a solid 9b.

[tank]

_{I have had this one growing for a while in Jax I dont know what lethal temp sowhere between 20Fannd 10F}

_{Best regards}

_Ed

Ed, I'm amazed every time you post a pic of your place. You are growing so many cool (and BIG) palms so far north.

Edited October 15, 2013 by tank

[edbrown_III]

Tank Good to hear from you dropby sometime ----- I finally is coming togrips with pruning and weeds ----- lots of Saribus that I am chain sawing that are diggable for someones incipient rainforest

Best regards

Ed

[Sutter Bob]

Lost a very small one here last winter - was pretty well uncovered in the frost.

I think I saw one at a winery in Napa years back.

A little canopy and one might grow here.

Hope to try again some day.

[mnorell]

I

I have both C. prunifera and alba doing well at my house in Gainesville. The local botanical garden has a few mature specimens so I'd say it is a 9a palm and possibly then some.

I wonder if there is another C. alba in the ground in Louisiana. It stands to reason that somewhere there might be, but I am not aware of one.

Keith--

I have one up at the house in Natchez. I planted it in '09 and it made it through the truly awful winter that followed. Three days continuously below freezing, with an ultimate low of 18F and highs for two of those days about 28F. It was a seedling planted out near the street with only the protection of a somewhat small Magnolia fuscata and a couple of surrounding shrubs, though the latter were deciduous or frosted back a bit (e.g., Bauhinia galpinii). It is just fine and continues to grow steadily. It gets absolutely no attention and when I'm up there I check on it and can say that I'm always surprised how well it has done. Of course the bud is still down in the ground but even the leaves are quite tough (and those thorns are nasty!). It most certainly won't make it through the next 1989-style event but I would say chances are you'll have it for years. I would suggest planting it just under the edge of a big live oak or similar if you have such a situation available in your landscape. That would help somewhat to save it in a marginal winter I'm sure. Its foliage is definitely hardier than any of the Livistonas I have planted near it (chinensis, saribus, nitida).

[_Keith]

That is reassuring Michael. I don't expect to see another 1989 in my lifetime as folks are saying that was a 100 year level freeze. At least I hope the hell it was.

[tank]

Tank Good to hear from you dropby sometime ----- I finally is coming togrips with pruning and weeds ----- lots of Saribus that I am chain sawing that are diggable for someones incipient rainforest

Best regards

Ed

Ed, will definitely take you up on some of your manageable L. saribus! I will be coming your way over thanksgiving but I will try and coordinate if you need me to come before or if you would prefer another time. BTW, would these L. saribus be from the same stock as the one planted out at Kanapaha botanical gardens here in Gainesville?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Lost a very small one here last winter - was pretty well uncovered in the frost.

I think I saw one at a winery in Napa years back.

A little canopy and one might grow here.

Hope to try again some day.

I don't think Copernicia are hardy as small seedlings. Thanks for the reminder, I have small ones out there that will need protection if it gets cold.

[_Keith]

I hope it is only very small or mine are goners. They might get protection as long as I can fit a 5 gl bucket over them, after that they are on their own.

[Matt N- Dallas]

I planted a 3 gal c. alba in Austin, Tx this summer. I know of one long term c. alba in Austin that was grown from seed- it survived the cold blast of Feb 2011.

[edbrown_III]

Tank Good to hear from you dropby sometime ----- I finally is coming togrips with pruning and weeds ----- lots of Saribus that I am chain sawing that are diggable for someones incipient rainforest

Best regards

Ed

Ed, will definitely take you up on some of your manageable L. saribus! I will be coming your way over thanksgiving but I will try and coordinate if you need me to come before or if you would prefer another time. BTW, would these L. saribus be from the same stock as the one planted out at Kanapaha botanical gardens here in Gainesville?

Good deal wewill split a few beers --a lot of feral saribus and chinensis that might be dig able---- a few biggers depending upon how we feel --- I am trying thin to have a nice path --all are fast growing in the right place with good nutrition

Best regards

Ed

[Shirleypalmpaws]

I would think you're a solid 9b.

Okay, thanks again, Jason for helping me. I fixed my zone indictor-thingy beneath the avatar of Michael's hand.

Sooooo, we went up US1 to check and see if they had anymore C. alba available, and Michael picked this one:

There's actually two in that nursery pot. I missed talking with Bernie Peterson while we were there. They were having a Fall Festival and it was pretty packed with people.

[tank]

I would think you're a solid 9b.

Okay, thanks again, Jason for helping me. I fixed my zone indictor-thingy beneath the avatar of Michael's hand.

Sooooo, we went up US1 to check and see if they had anymore C. alba available, and Michael picked this one:

There's actually two in that nursery pot. I missed talking with Bernie Peterson while we were there. They were having a Fall Festival and it was pretty packed with people.

Looks awesome. Should really take off next spring.

[mjff]

I planted a C. alba here in spring 2012, and it was totally defoliated last winter even though we only got down to 23F. Don't think it cared for the 6" snow we got. My Acrocomia liked that even less. The snow broke most of the petioles leaving all the fronds hanging straight down. Apparently they are pretty brittle on Acrocomia.

[Shirleypalmpaws]

Planted

B4C.alba:

<This from last Aug., for HOA nod.

Here it is Sunday morning:

Opposite angle:

One last different angle:

Michael and I had a lot of fun working on this project…we'll keep tweaking and whatnot.

[Shirleypalmpaws]

Just wanted to add a special thanks to Keith for starting this thread---and also an apology that we hijacked it!!

[_Keith]

No apologies and I have new news. I found one of the original C. alba seedlings ALIVE!. It has been hiding in the weeds. Really, and we hit 24 this year, too. We just may have a valid 9a palm on our hands.

[Alicehunter2000]

Hmm....you know my story....so no need to repeat it....that being said, I might try again if they offer some small ones for cheap price at the box stores around here. When I look back at the pictures of my beauty's it makes me sick to see the dead trunks still laying by the house. Need to clean those bad memories up. Good luck Keith, hope yours will prove my experience wrong.

Shirley, your yard is looking great!

[tank]

Dave,

I think yours just did not have enough time to get established. I have had both C. prunifera and C. alba take temps down to 20F with minor damage and into the upper teens with some damage but they survived. Maybe try with smaller plants 3-15 gal.

[Phoenikakias]

Lost a very small one here last winter - was pretty well uncovered in the frost.

I think I saw one at a winery in Napa years back.

A little canopy and one might grow here.

Hope to try again some day.

I don't think Copernicia are hardy as small seedlings. Thanks for the reminder, I have small ones out there that will need protection if it gets cold.

Lost a very small one here last winter - was pretty well uncovered in the frost.

I think I saw one at a winery in Napa years back.

A little canopy and one might grow here.

Hope to try again some day.

I don't think Copernicia are hardy as small seedlings. Thanks for the reminder, I have small ones out there that will need protection if it gets cold.

Hmm....you know my story....so no need to repeat it....that being said, I might try again if they offer some small ones for cheap price at the box stores around here. When I look back at the pictures of my beauty's it makes me sick to see the dead trunks still laying by the house. Need to clean those bad memories up. Good luck Keith, hope yours will prove my experience wrong.

Shirley, your yard is looking great!

Mine was killed during the cold blast of 2004 with absolute min between -2 and -3.5 C and temps fluctuating for two days between this limit and 0.5 C plus constant snowfall. It had been already in the ground since a couple of years.

BTW I am getting tired to grant reputation points to a member with a clinically dead account in PT!

[buccaneers37]

Mine was in my yard in January 2010 when I got down to 17/18deg. & only got minor to moderate damage (lost roughly 1/3 of its crown). It had only been in the ground for 4 or 5 months. Overall height is around 10 or 11 feet. The next year it got down to 23 and that didn't seem to phase it. It did take a couple of years after the ultimate low of 2010 to recover its "vigor". It would put a frond or two out and they eventually would die. It's fine now. It sounds like yours just didn't have enough time to acclimate itself. That is what happened to my Copernicia baileyana when I planted it in November of 2010. Even though I covered it & hung light bulbs in the enclosure, it hadn't had enough time to acclimate before it hit 23/24 a mere 1 1/2 months later. That's why I just removed what was left of it, hanging on to life, & planted my Bismark at the end of February in its spot. The Bizzie will now have a full growing season to get used to its new spot & should be fine for winter 2015/16 (if it doesn't go into planting shock, that is)

[buffy]

Keith: I have a few strap leave seedlings that have survived the past two winters in a cold pocket. We've dropped below 20F both winters. And certainly where they're located. We'll see how the experiment progresses.

[Josh-O]

No apologies and I have new news. I found one of the original C. alba seedlings ALIVE!. It has been hiding in the weeds. Really, and we hit 24 this year, too. We just may have a valid 9a palm on our hands.

Keith. I have seen C. Alba specimens 9' tall with 3' of trunk grown from seed in California take temps down to 25F for 5 days in a row with out even blinking. This is a 9a palm IMO

Just protect it until it can fend for it self. happy growing bro!

[Kailua_Krish]

I haven't had a ton of luck in my 9a with this palm. I have one left that is in a warm microclimate. Perhaps this palm is like the queen and there are large natural variations in cold tolerance?