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palmsOrl

This is a palm I ordered two years from eBay as a "Jamaican Tall". The second I opened the box, however, I realized it was just a golden/yellow Malayan instead (as some on PalmTalk may remember). So this is my $50 golden Malayan seedling. At least it is doing reasonably well!

Cocos%20golden%20malayan%20Puerto%20Rico

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palmsOrl

This Cocos sprouted from seed I bought on eBay from the FL Keys about a year and a half ago. The picture of the parent plant looked like a Tall, so I ordered it. But, I really have no idea as to what variety/varieties it could be at this stage. It has bronze/yellow petioles, and could really be anything. Would anybody like to venture a guess?

Cocos%20FL%20Keys%20possible%20Tall%20on

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palmsOrl

My other Kopsick coconut is such a trooper. Also a Jamaican Tall, it survived being yanked out of the ground (by some well-intentioned former neighbors) and sat for a week bare root in the yard during a pretty chilly week this past winter. I was able to revive it with above and beyond measures and it is working on putting out a few leaves now.

Cocos%20Kopsick%201a.jpg?t=1437257403

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palmsOrl

This last (sprouted) coconut in my current collection came to me all the way from Hawaii. It is a green Pacific/Hawaiian Tall and proved to not be that photogenic, though it is starting to grow fairly rapidly.

Cocos%20Hawaiian%20Pacific%20Tall%20one.

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palmsOrl

I am patiently waiting on this one to sprout. I gave the other one (which had sprouted) to my dad, who also lives in the Orlando area. It is an extraordinarily large nut that came from a very tall coconut palm next to a large building in inland Marco Island. I am certain this must be a Tall variety, perhaps a Jamaican Tall survivor that escaped lethal yellowing? The bole at the base of the trunk was massive.

Cocos%20large%20Marco%20Island%20Oct%202

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palmsOrl

I forgot one...I purchased this Golden Malayan from Green's nursery in Apopka about 5 years ago, where it had done really well in a container until last fall. So far, it likes it even more in the ground, though I am aware it may struggle in the future since the golden varieties are well known to be cold wimps. It had a bit of burn on a few leaves this winter, but nothing too bad.

Cocos%20golden%20malayan%20greens%20nurs

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palmsOrl

Not coconuts, but here is my Cyrtostachys hybrid, which I decided to plant in the ground. We will see how hardy that one really is :indifferent:

The second picture is of Cyrtostachys loriae.

Cyrtostachys%20hybrid%20one.jpg?t=143725Cyrtostachys%20loriae%20one.jpg?t=143725

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Zeeth

Cool! I see your Panama tall also has golden petioles! This is a trait that I'm interested in looking into, as mine (from Dave Romney) has golden petioles, as well as another one I saw that was purchased from him. The ones at Fairchild all have green petioles though, so it's interesting that the one you sprouted from there is golden. I definitely trust the pedigree of mine though, as Dave Romney is supposed to be one of the best sources of pure coconuts of this variety.

Your Hawaiian tall looks like mine did at that age. It produced the longest bifid leaves I've ever seen on a coconut. What was your source for that one? Also, The coconut you got from Marco island is definitely a Jamaican tall! Hopefully it sprouts, as I'm interested in seeing if the size of coconuts that a certain palm produces is related to the cold hardiness at all. Where was the location of the coconut? I'd be interested in checking it out if I'm ever in that area.

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palmsOrl

Keith,

Regarding the Marco Island Jamaican Tall, it is at 1003 N. Barfield Dr. Marco Island on the left side of the large white building that says "Cool Storage" and below that it says "Real Estate". Look it up on Google streetview. It is an even more graceful, beautiful palm than I remember in person. It has three royal palms in front of it closer to the street, but the coconut towers above them. Jamaican Tall?! There had to be 10 nuts near the base of it.

Edited by palmsOrl

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Zeeth

Right here? https://goo.gl/QEIPsu

That's a nice one! I would definitely say it's a Jamaican tall, the nut shape and tree form are spot-on.

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palmsOrl

That's the one Keith. When I saw it, I knew I had to have a couple of its progeny. After your post last night, I actually dehusked the nut and a lot of the material around where the growing point would emerge was water-logged with a bit of rot even. So I am glad I did, or I bet it would have ended up rotting. After 9.5 months, I wanted to see what was going on in there! Germination had just begun out of one of the eyes, so I planted it in sandy soil with the growing point just above the soil line and positioned it in mostly shade. I hope it grows.

My Panama Tall was plucked out of the water feature just below the Panama Talls growing next to it. At the time, there were a ton of other coconuts floating thee as well. This nut matched the ones in still hanging in the Panama Tall, based on appearance, so I believe it is a Panama Tall, despite the yellow/bronze petioles.

My Hawaiian Tall was purchased on eBay from a Hawaiian seller who had removed the top half of the husk and polished the inner nut for decorative purposes. It had germinated, the nut looked like a tall and the price was right (not $30-$40 + shipping like many on there), so I bought it. I bet it will be my fastest grower.

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Zeeth

Good luck with the Jamaican tall! I've dehusked coconuts before when they don't sprout with good results, just be careful to cover the coconut as it can split in the sun without the husk.

I know which Panama tall you got yours from, and the seed I saw was definitely the right size and shape, so the orange color is interesting, as mine from Dave Romney has it. Mine seems to be more green the older it gets though, so maybe it's a juvenile trait with this variety. I'll post an update when the Fairchild one sprouts with the petiole color.

Thanks for the info on the Hawaiian tall! I lost contact with my source so if I ever need to get another one I'll check it out.

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Yunder Wækraus

How long does it take a seedling to put on trunk?

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Zeeth

How long does it take a seedling to put on trunk?

Between 2-5 years, assuming that they're planted in the ground with proper fertilization and irrigation. Dwarf types usually fall around the 2-3 year mark, with the tall types around the 4-5 year mark. This is because the tall types have to work on building a big, fat base before they start trunking, so they tend to take longer. Once trunking though, the talls out-pace the dwarves 2-1 (or more) once they're going.

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Yunder Wækraus

Is this from seed? I bought two that germinated some time before i got them. I was hoping they were going to rocket up.

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Zeeth

Is this from seed? I bought two that germinated some time before i got them. I was hoping they were going to rocket up.

Yeah, that's what I've seen from seed. The ones they sell in stores are about the size of my 1 year sprouts so you can probably take a year off those times.

Here are some pictures posted by palmtalk member "Redant" over the years. This is a Jamaican tall, the pictures are taken 4 years after sprouting, 6 years, and 9 years. You can see that it began to develop it's trunk at about the 4 year mark.

post-3598-0-02959900-1437530099_thumb.jp

post-3598-0-46760200-1437530100_thumb.jp

post-3598-0-23536700-1437530101_thumb.jp

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Yunder Wækraus

That's pretty dramatic.

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garrin

I have not been active in this forum for quite a while because of debilitating injuries and consequential

. mental incapacitation. But I finally found my log-in info so I can at long last add my input to a few of these topics.. About two years ago I was in the S. Cal desert area, and remembering the "Palms" article from earlier I made an exhaustive search around the Salton Sea area where there had been a report of coconuts growing-- they were there most definitely, but the intervening very dry years and the local collapsed economy showed two very grown up coconut palms, but they were totally dessicated (dead) from lack of water, behind an abandoned house. What a sad development for that community, which was once a locale of great promise for So. Cal.

Garrin

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Pando

2-5 years to trunk is pretty quick...

I am wondering if there's any way to determine which way the trunk is going to lean early on? I have a coconut that blasted out of the nut dead center. This may be academic as it's unlikely to survive that long anyway, but it's interesting nonetheless.

WkLRT34.jpg

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Coconutman

I have not been active in this forum for quite a while because of debilitating injuries and consequential

. mental incapacitation. But I finally found my log-in info so I can at long last add my input to a few of these topics.. About two years ago I was in the S. Cal desert area, and remembering the "Palms" article from earlier I made an exhaustive search around the Salton Sea area where there had been a report of coconuts growing-- they were there most definitely, but the intervening very dry years and the local collapsed economy showed two very grown up coconut palms, but they were totally dessicated (dead) from lack of water, behind an abandoned house. What a sad development for that community, which was once a locale of great promise for So. Cal.

Garrin

Hello Garrin, have you seen what Daniel has found in La Quinta and in Palm desert in Coachella Valley?!

Here's a link to that thread...Enjoy the read!!!

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/46003-is-this-a-coconut-or-am-i-dreaming/

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Zeeth

I have not been active in this forum for quite a while because of debilitating injuries and consequential

. mental incapacitation. But I finally found my log-in info so I can at long last add my input to a few of these topics.. About two years ago I was in the S. Cal desert area, and remembering the "Palms" article from earlier I made an exhaustive search around the Salton Sea area where there had been a report of coconuts growing-- they were there most definitely, but the intervening very dry years and the local collapsed economy showed two very grown up coconut palms, but they were totally dessicated (dead) from lack of water, behind an abandoned house. What a sad development for that community, which was once a locale of great promise for So. Cal.

Garrin

It's very good to see you posting again! You should definitely check out the thread that Coconutman linked to, it's one of the most interesting coconut threads on Palmtalk in a while! (The Hawaiian tall you sent me is doing really well, and you can see pictures of in post#225 if you're interested)

That's pretty dramatic.

It's one of the most dramatic examples I've ever seen of coconut growth. It's got a lot going for it though, so it's easy to explain. It's in the yard of a palm hobbyist who knows how to water and fertilize properly, it's a Jamaican tall, and it's in a non-full sun location. Full sun is best for coconut production, but when they're in light shade they tend to grow with very long internodes while searching for light. All these things combine to make a good recipe for very fast coconut growth.

2-5 years to trunk is pretty quick...

I am wondering if there's any way to determine which way the trunk is going to lean early on? I have a coconut that blasted out of the nut dead center. This may be academic as it's unlikely to survive that long anyway, but it's interesting nonetheless.

WkLRT34.jpg

Keep in mind that those numbers are under ideal conditions. I have coconuts that are 5 years old with no trunk because I kept them in pots until last January (all the houses prior to the current one were rented). Trunk leaning is affected by light and wind. Coconuts are very sensitive to light levels, and will lean towards anything with higher light. This is why they lean towards the ocean, as the water reflects a lot of sunlight. Additionally, some varieties (like the Jamaican tall) are very top-heavy when they first start trunking, and in a strong storm with a lot of wind and rain (like a tropical storm), they can sometimes be pushed in an unpredictable direction by the wind after the water has saturated and loosened the soil.

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IHB1979

At 2 years my coconuts were just transitioning from strap leaves to pinnate. I find them extremely slow from germination to about the 3 year mark. From 3 years on, mine have been explosive. Photos below show one of mine I documented. Notice the golden petiole that has turned mostly green as the palm has developed. Maybe that can help with the ID.

The coconut seed was collected July 2011, germinated November 2011. Planted out 2012.

2012_zpstomcluzb.png

2013

2013_zpsc6yhqkmi.png

2014

2014_zpsfzedus5i.png

2015

072015_zpsfv8bqrsa.png

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Zeeth

At 2 years my coconuts were just transitioning from strap leaves to pinnate. I find them extremely slow from germination to about the 3 year mark. From 3 years on, mine have been explosive. Photos below show one of mine I documented. Notice the golden petiole that has turned mostly green as the palm has developed. Maybe that can help with the ID.

The coconut seed was collected July 2011, germinated November 2011. Planted out 2012.

2012_zpstomcluzb.png

2013

2013_zpsc6yhqkmi.png

2014

2014_zpsfzedus5i.png

2015

072015_zpsfv8bqrsa.png

Very nice progress pics! Is that the one you collected from Islamorada? If that's the case, it's likely a Bronze Jamaican tall.

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IHB1979

Thanks Keith!

Collected most of my coconuts from this property in Islamorada.

IMG_0235_zpse7af4da2.jpg

My friend lives on this street and it dead ends on the Atlantic side of Islamorada. On a mini-vacation, my wife and I would walk there every morning for the sunrise. I noticed the home was closed up and had shutters on the windows so I strolled around to the side and back yard. That's where I found the mother lode of coconuts on the ground.

IMG_0366_zpse0095eb5.jpg

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Yunder Wækraus

At 2 years my coconuts were just transitioning from strap leaves to pinnate. I find them extremely slow from germination to about the 3 year mark. From 3 years on, mine have been explosive. Photos below show one of mine I documented. Notice the golden petiole that has turned mostly green as the palm has developed. Maybe that can help with the ID.

The coconut seed was collected July 2011, germinated November 2011. Planted out 2012.

2012_zpstomcluzb.png

2013

2013_zpsc6yhqkmi.png

2014

2014_zpsfzedus5i.png

2015

072015_zpsfv8bqrsa.png

This gives me hope that I might see something before too long. The two coconuts I planted are about the size of your 2013 coconut. I know absolutely nothing about coconuts. I have no knowledge of the different types, how to fertilize them, what pests might attack them, etc. All I know is that they don't like to be cold and that lethal yellowing is a thing. I'm not even sure what type I bought. The nurseryman said they were from Panama (or perhaps he said they were a Panamanian variety), and he claimed they were resistant to the yellowing thing. Who knows what's true? The ability to enjoy other folks' mature plants is one nice thing about moving into a subtropical community. One of my neighbors has several mature coconut palms, which I can see from my home office window. So even if I won't get to see mine look majestic any time soon, I can pretend my neighbor's palms are in my my yard :-)

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Cocoa Beach Jason

At 2 years my coconuts were just transitioning from strap leaves to pinnate. I find them extremely slow from germination to about the 3 year mark. From 3 years on, mine have been explosive. Photos below show one of mine I documented. Notice the golden petiole that has turned mostly green as the palm has developed. Maybe that can help with the ID.

The coconut seed was collected July 2011, germinated November 2011. Planted out 2012.

2012_zpstomcluzb.png

2013

2013_zpsc6yhqkmi.png

2014

2014_zpsfzedus5i.png

2015

072015_zpsfv8bqrsa.png

This gives me hope that I might see something before too long. The two coconuts I planted are about the size of your 2013 coconut. I know absolutely nothing about coconuts. I have no knowledge of the different types, how to fertilize them, what pests might attack them, etc. All I know is that they don't like to be cold and that lethal yellowing is a thing. I'm not even sure what type I bought. The nurseryman said they were from Panama (or perhaps he said they were a Panamanian variety), and he claimed they were resistant to the yellowing thing. Who knows what's true? The ability to enjoy other folks' mature plants is one nice thing about moving into a subtropical community. One of my neighbors has several mature coconut palms, which I can see from my home office window. So even if I won't get to see mine look majestic any time soon, I can pretend my neighbor's palms are in my my yard :-)

In your coastal barrier island location, make sure your coconut has slow release fert with plenty of potassium and manganese. I supplement with manganese and k a couple times a year because those are the common and persistent deficiencies in these parts. Particularly manganese. By the way, I don't think Panama Talls are truly resistent to lethal yellowing but I'm not sure. Others would know better. As far as pests, whitefly love coconuts around here and you will find them a nuisance. I don't think they kill anything like a coconut but they can diminish the look a little bit.

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Yunder Wækraus

Thanks for the info. Is there a particular brand of fertilizer you use? I noticed that the fronds have some whitish web-like stuff under them, and ants seem interested in this whitish stuff. Is this something I should be concerned about? I'll try to take a picture tomorrow.

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Zeeth

In your coastal barrier island location, make sure your coconut has slow release fert with plenty of potassium and manganese. I supplement with manganese and k a couple times a year because those are the common and persistent deficiencies in these parts. Particularly manganese. By the way, I don't think Panama Talls are truly resistent to lethal yellowing but I'm not sure. Others would know better. As far as pests, whitefly love coconuts around here and you will find them a nuisance. I don't think they kill anything like a coconut but they can diminish the look a little bit.

Good advice on the fertilization. I'm not sure if he would have gotten a pure Panama tall, as they're a very hard to find variety and I doubt that they would be carried by most nurseries. I would suspect that he may have gotten Maypans, but I guess anything's possible. Either way, Panama talls are usually considered about 50% resistant in areas where LY is rampant. This isn't so much the case in Florida anymore though, especially on the northern end of the coconut growing area where it was never really present even during the epidemic of the '70s. I've heard that Dave Romney hasn't lost a single Panama tall in the years that he's grown them, and neither has Fairchild, and both locations were in the epicenter of LY devastation in the '70s. I will also note that there is debate on whether or not all coconuts are equally affected by LY, so if I were him I wouldn't worry about LY resistance as much as cold resistance to freak winters like the '80s or 2010. For those years the tall types fare much better than the Malayans (I've heard mixed reports about the Fiji dwarf).

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Yunder Wækraus

How can I know whether my baby cocos are Panama talls or not? Must I wait till they get a few years under their belts?

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Zeeth

How can I know whether my baby cocos are Panama talls or not? Must I wait till they get a few years under their belts?

It's pretty hard to tell at the seedling stage. It's possible to tell once they have grown a few feet of trunk, but my favorite way to tell is by the coconuts. Panama tall coconuts are really distinct and are almost completely spherical. Malayans are round around the edges, but smaller and more elongated, whereas Jamaican talls are long and triangular (but size varies from 8 inches long to over a foot). Maypans are intermediate between Malayan and Panama tall, where they're more spherical than a Malayan, but more elongated than a Panama tall. Panama talls are also one of the fastest growing of the varieties, and are even a little faster than the Jamaican tall. You will probably have to wait a few years to get a positive ID, but they're fun to watch either way.

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Danilopez89

I'm really liking this coconut thread. Lots of handy coco info in here. Lots to learn!

Well I had I coco question. I have this coconut palm that I planted in the ground 1 1/2 years ago. The coconut husk sits pretty low in the soil. (My fault) and I keep having to remove soil or leaf deposits left from my mesquite tree that build up around the husk pretty often. My question is - at what point can I let the husk become covered by soil? And what's the purpose of keeping only half the coco buried in soil anyways :)post-9726-0-73158700-1437618415_thumb.jppost-9726-0-25543100-1437618441_thumb.jppost-9726-0-75277800-1437618460_thumb.jp

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Zeeth

Here's what Dave Romney says about planting depths:

"The seedling is transplanted with the top of the husk of the seed-nut at ground level and in the center of the hole; some growers use a notched stick to facilitate this. The trunk will develop between the top of the husk and the top of the nut, hence planting depth is important; seedlings planted too high may develop a narrow trunk base."

Romney, David H. Growing Coconuts in South Florida., 1997. 19. Print.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning the leaf deposits away too much if I were you.

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Danilopez89

Here's what Dave Romney says about planting depths:

"The seedling is transplanted with the top of the husk of the seed-nut at ground level and in the center of the hole; some growers use a notched stick to facilitate this. The trunk will develop between the top of the husk and the top of the nut, hence planting depth is important; seedlings planted too high may develop a narrow trunk base."

Romney, David H. Growing Coconuts in South Florida., 1997. 19. Print.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning the leaf deposits away too much if I were you.

Thanks Keith! I wanted to cover it with lava rock, I was just worried about organic deposits building up around the husk. I'll just try and keep the soil off the base of the "trunk". I've been leaving glass bottles around there because stray cats kept going in there to chill and I didn't want the fat cat to drop her litter on my coco.

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palmsOrl

Here is a photo of the other giant coconut I obtained from a really old, tall Jamaican Tall on Marco Island (the one pictured in post #250 of this thread). We'll call it the "Marco Island Giant". I kept one and gave one to my dad, and he was nice enough to give it back (since his sprouted already), so I planted it in the ground in a spot with plenty of room for it to grow and spread out. I think it will color up nicely in full sun, after being kept in deep shade since it germinated.

I de-husked the other nut (the one I originally posted a photo of) to find out what was up, and it had sprouted from one of the eyes, but the husk was really waterlogged and I think it would have rotted before it grew out of the husk otherwise. The now de-Cocos%20Marco%20Island%20Giant%20Jamaicahusked nut is in soil in a pot in full shade until it grows some foliage.

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Zeeth

Here is a photo of the other giant coconut I obtained from a really old, tall Jamaican Tall on Marco Island (the one pictured in post #250 of this thread). We'll call it the "Marco Island Giant". I kept one and gave one to my dad, and he was nice enough to give it back (since his sprouted already), so I planted it in the ground in a spot with plenty of room for it to grow and spread out. I think it will color up nicely in full sun, after being kept in deep shade since it germinated.

I de-husked the other nut (the one I originally posted a photo of) to find out what was up, and it had sprouted from one of the eyes, but the husk was really waterlogged and I think it would have rotted before it grew out of the husk otherwise. The now de-husked nut is in soil in a pot in full shade until it grows some foliage.

Neat! Did you get a picture of the dehusked one? I am interested to see how large that one is. One thing I like doing with coconuts is comparing the different varieties for percentage of husk and size of inner coconut. I've found that the Jamaican talls tend to have a relatively small inner coconut compared to the size of the coconut itself.

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redant

BTW Zeeth it finally has coconuts on it, first time it has had nearly mature coconuts. I think I owe you one if they ever drop. The damn thing is way to tall now to ever harvest them from the tree.

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Zeeth

BTW Zeeth it finally has coconuts on it, first time it has had nearly mature coconuts. I think I owe you one if they ever drop. The damn thing is way to tall now to ever harvest them from the tree.

Awesome! I would definitely like to grow a coconut from it, as it seems like an exceptional palm. Got any updated pictures of it?

For the thread, here's an updated picture of the Kopsick Jamaican talls.

post-3598-0-23550000-1438650174_thumb.jp

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palmsOrl

What a coincidence. We decided to go visit the Kopsick coconuts last night. Arrived at about 9:00 pm. I was surprised that the maturing nuts didn't look ripe yet. I went at the end of August 2013 and it was dropping mature coconuts, so I guess the window of opportunity tends to be late August through October(?). As a side note, the canopy of the Kopsick coconuts looked better (more full, healthier) in 2013. I think the chilly weather last winter had some effect, but they look better than they did in February of this year. Needless to say, I didn't leave with a viable coconut, as intended. All I found was this (pictured below), which is not viable, as I can hear the inner husk rattling inside, instead of coconut water. It is also a tad small compared to a ripe, viable nut. Oh well, I found some other seeds while there, Roystonea, Wodyetia, Bismarckia, Veitchia and Ptychosperma elegans.

Keith, the second photo is of the inner husk of the de-husked Marco Island giant coconut. You can see the sprouting eye on the left side of the nut. No direct sunlight until this one has some foliage.

Cocos%20Kopsick%20non-viable%20one.jpg

Cocos%20dehusked%20Marco%20Island%20Gian

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Cluster

I want one of those Kopsick Jamaican talls, they are still looking great.

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