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JT in Japan

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JT in Japan

Hi there, by way of introduction, I'm John, and I'm a newby to palmtalk and palms in their entirety. I'm Canadian, in Japan for much of the past 25 years. :I'm having a psychotic dream where I start a palm nursery this year, nurture it for the next 15 years, then turn it into a revenue stream (or at least a passionate, enthralling pastime) for my retirement years (my wife thinks I've been focusing on mushrooms, not palms, to come up with this, but that's neither here nor there). My question-to-answer ratio will surely be skewed as I start getting engaged in palmtalk, but in a few years, watch out, you gurusI In the meantime, I welcome any questions about Japan -- those I can answer!

For those of you who think Japan is nothing but cherry blossoms and tsunamis, I can share some photos of the palms that are walking distance from my little shack by the sea. I don't know the names of them yet, but I'll get there. My purpose in being here, mentioned above, is to learn. I'll look carefully at cold-hardy threads (see my average temps in sig file); bone up on all 14-syllable latinate names; pay close attention to anything a current grower/nursery has to say; and with any luck become a civil member of the fold. I'd also love to learn if there's anyone else in Japan on here.

I look forward to the years to come.

Cheers,
JT

Just behind me now, as I have a glass of red and a Cuban...

post-7712-0-56174900-1368691743_thumb.jp

Along the beach road...

post-7712-0-29462200-1368691603_thumb.jp

beach road...

post-7712-0-63820600-1368691652_thumb.jp

near the parking lot...

post-7712-0-14648100-1368691666_thumb.jp

and a cactus, to show we're not just palms and sunshine...

post-7712-0-34419600-1368691796_thumb.jp

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dalmatiansoap

Hi John

UR living one of my (many) dreams, lol!

Must be very interesting to live there considering all cultural differences.

Share more general landscape pics with us Im sure U can find many interesting stuff there.

Good luck with nursery plans.

:greenthumb:

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Vidalii

welcome john you are in the land of varigated rhapis i envy you ,vist there annual show and you will be a convert

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Kennybenjamin

G'day John, Welcome to Palmtalk!!!

Interesting that you are new to palms and already want to open a palm nursery, sounds to me like if you are not already you are soon to become a palm tragic like all of us here on Palmtalk. It's a good sign for the palm community that people like you are joining us!! There seem to have been a few new people joining Palmtalk recently and we welcome each and every one of them, too many is not enough!!

In regards to your dream to start a palm nursery, I can very much relate to that. I have my father to thank for my palm passion and also my job. I am lucky enough to have been involved with the creation of a palm nursery which still manages to pay my wages 13 years after it began. I suppose that the biggest thing you have to think about is your market, as fun as it is to run a palm nursery you need customers! We started very small and slowly built it up after a couple of years of "testing the market". It has been successful in the fact that we are still in business, but we will never be millionaires. Who needs millions of dollars though if you love what you are doing!!

When you say a palm nursery are you thinking propagation, retail or other??

Glad to see you on board here @ Palmtalk and good luck with your "psychotic dream", doesn't seem too crazy to me!!

If I can help with any further information don't hesitate to ask!!

Ben

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stygiana

こんにちは

And Welcome.

It's great to see palms from Japan. I like when such things happen on PalmTalk. It reminds me of the great photos from Russia last year.

Where are you, exactly? (Japan is not that small) It would help to understand better what is your climate like.

In order to help you with the names:

Pic n°1 is a Trachycarpus.

Pic n°2 is a Washingtonia row (foreground) with Phoenix and Butia in the background.

Pic 3 is Washingtonia.

Pic 4 is Butia

And Pic 5 is a Cereus.

Good luck with your project.

PalmTalk is the right place if you're a palm lover.

Please keep posting, John, it's cooool. :)

Sebastian

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Brahea Axel

I've been to tokyo three times for work and every time I spotted a number of trachys plus the washies down in Yokohama by the water. The locals from the office all denied their existence and said palms didn't grow in Tokyo. I was puzzled how the palms could be so invisible to them.

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bobchamnan

Yes, the sight of trachys under piles of snow is a rare treat.

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grant b.

hajimemashite dozo yoroshiku

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JT in Japan

When you say a palm nursery are you thinking propagation, retail or other??

Ben

All of the above, Ben: propagation, to honor Mother Nature and my own version of Creator; retail, to give back to The Little Guy; and commercial, to search for the white whale.

Stygiana, thanks for the names. Appreciate it.

Axel, the city folk here often don't see the forest OR the trees. Country folk are a different breed altogether.

Bobchamnan, there's no snow down here on the coast, but Fuji-San is just two hours north of me,... Lots there. Maybe fewer palms.

Thanks all.

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DoomsDave

John!

Welcome to our group!

Japan has some great palms, including a few natives, if you include the Ryukyu Islands and some of the other island possessions of Japan.

Yeah, American city folk can't see the forest for the trees, either, country folk are different here as well.

Japan also has a fascinating biome in its own right. Many wonderful plants are native to Japan, including Lilium auratum, L. speciosum, and many more.

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JT in Japan

John!

Welcome to our group!

Japan has some great palms, including a few natives, if you include the Ryukyu Islands and some of the other island possessions of Japan.

Yeah, American city folk can't see the forest for the trees, either, country folk are different here as well.

Japan also has a fascinating biome in its own right. Many wonderful plants are native to Japan, including Lilium auratum, L. speciosum, and many more.

Thanks Dave. Yes, it's a pretty special place, in many ways. I can't wait till all I have to do all day long is wander around and gaze and breathe. Wait a sec, that's what I'm doing all weekend. Kewl!

JT

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cassowaryhill

Satakentia liukiuensis is preeeettttyyyy... and awesome!

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JT in Japan

こんにちは

And Welcome.

It's great to see palms from Japan. I like when such things happen on PalmTalk. It reminds me of the great photos from Russia last year.

Where are you, exactly? (Japan is not that small) It would help to understand better what is your climate like.

In order to help you with the names:

Pic n°1 is a Trachycarpus.

Pic n°2 is a Washingtonia row (foreground) with Phoenix and Butia in the background.

Pic 3 is Washingtonia.

Pic 4 is Butia

And Pic 5 is a Cereus.

Sebastian, can you confirm Pic 3? It looks to me completely different from Pic 2, which is a Washingtonia. Here's a closeup of the trunk, which is not slender and smooth like the row of Washingtonias in Pic 2.

Thanks again.

JT

post-7712-0-00043800-1368761870_thumb.jp

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Hammer

Welcome John! Good have you aboard this merry band of loons.

The difference you see in #2 and #3 has to do purely with how the palms have been groomed. If you were to clean all the jagged "frond bases" off the smaller trunk it would look smooth just like the big ones.

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JT in Japan

Welcome John! Good have you aboard this merry band of loons.

The difference you see in #2 and #3 has to do purely with how the palms have been groomed. If you were to clean all the jagged "frond bases" off the smaller trunk it would look smooth just like the big ones.

Thanks Hammer.

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paulgila

welcome to palm talk,john! i am excited to finally have someone on board who lives in japan,i have been curious about the "palm situation"there for some time.

thanks for your posts,i will be looking forward to whatever you can share with us!

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Ken Johnson

Welcome!

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Xerarch

Even though there are a number of palms that can grow in Japan, the culture there hasn't really acquired much of a taste for them. Hopefully your nursery can start to change that!

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JT in Japan

Even though there are a number of palms that can grow in Japan, the culture there hasn't really acquired much of a taste for them. Hopefully your nursery can start to change that!

Thanks for the reply, Xerarch. Along the coasts, particularly where resort towns and retirement enclaves exist, you see many more palms than you see in the cities. But you're right. The sculpted and iconic pines (immortalized and miniaturized in bonsai) or cloud-pruned trees and shrubs are the much more favoured options in gardens. A challenge then! Onward!

JT

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doranakandawatta

Nice to meet you on Palmtalk, John

We look forward to seeing your photos of such a wonderful country, you'll be hunting palms pics.

Starting from the seeds, I wonder how long in japan climate it can take until you get plants to put in the ground.

How warm is your climate?

Best regards,

Philippe

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JT in Japan

doranakandawatta wrote:

Starting from the seeds, I wonder how long in japan climate it can take until you get plants to put in the ground.

--> I'm wondering the same thing. :-) I suspect a couple years,...

How warm is your climate?

--> see my signature:

Shimoda, Japan, Long Lat: 36.6, 138.8

Zone 9B (kinda, sorta), Pacific Coast, 1Km inland, 2M above sea level

Coldest lows (Jan): 2-5C (35-41F), Hottest highs (Aug): 32-33C (87-91F)

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JT in Japan

I was out for another walk around the beach house neighborhood and took a few more pics. I'm beginning to recognize palms, and what I'm seeing in the city are nothing but Trachycarpis Fortunei, and in the country (seaside) largely either Washingtonia, Phoenix or Butia, and not much else. But I'll defer to the pros on all my IDs, please. Let's see what we found in Shimoda today....

Washingtonia up high with Phoenix down below

post-7712-0-85690900-1370867981_thumb.jp

Is this a Phoenix on the right, and ?? on the left?

post-7712-0-11375900-1370868129_thumb.jp

I thought this one on the left was a Butia, but it looks very silver, not sure. How about the others? Incidentally, this group was found at what appears to be a little used ex-landscaper's lot. I was there asking about renting the abandoned vinyl houses (I can't recall what you'all call them; semicircular things like vinyl greenhouses) in the area, and a bulldozer was parked menacingly nearby these big, beautiful specimens.

post-7712-0-06590400-1370868439_thumb.jp

And this little batch, I really have no idea. I couldn't see the base to see if it was one large suckering plant, but from my POV looks like multiple, independent trunks. Is this even a palm?

post-7712-0-62914400-1370868643_thumb.jp

Cheers,

JT

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Xerarch

The last photo looks like Rhapis, the lady palm. Given what is in your area I bet you would also be seeing Chamaerops humilis, the mediterranean fam palm.

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doranakandawatta

Yes, this is Rhapis but in a strange and poor condition.

japanese topiary style? or frost damage?

I think you'll see much more beautiful Rhapis somewhere else!

Regards

Philippe

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stygiana

こんにちは

And Welcome.

It's great to see palms from Japan. I like when such things happen on PalmTalk. It reminds me of the great photos from Russia last year.

Where are you, exactly? (Japan is not that small) It would help to understand better what is your climate like.

In order to help you with the names:

Pic n°1 is a Trachycarpus.

Pic n°2 is a Washingtonia row (foreground) with Phoenix and Butia in the background.

Pic 3 is Washingtonia.

Pic 4 is Butia

And Pic 5 is a Cereus.

Sebastian, can you confirm Pic 3? It looks to me completely different from Pic 2, which is a Washingtonia. Here's a closeup of the trunk, which is not slender and smooth like the row of Washingtonias in Pic 2.

Thanks again.

JT

attachicon.gif039.JPG

Welcome John! Good have you aboard this merry band of loons.

The difference you see in #2 and #3 has to do purely with how the palms have been groomed. If you were to clean all the jagged "frond bases" off the smaller trunk it would look smooth just like the big ones.

Sorry for the delay, but I was travelling and had little time...

I confirm that the palms seen on Pic n°2 and n°3 are the same. As Hammer correctly said, the difference comes from the fact that the first ones have cleaned (either naturally or by maintenance).

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stygiana

I s this a Phoenix on the right, and ?? on the left?

attachicon.gif034.JPG

I thought this one on the left was a Butia, but it looks very silver, not sure. How about the others? Incidentally, this group was found at what appears to be a little used ex-landscaper's lot. I was there asking about renting the abandoned vinyl houses (I can't recall what you'all call them; semicircular things like vinyl greenhouses) in the area, and a bulldozer was parked menacingly nearby these big, beautiful specimens.

attachicon.gif031.JPG

Cheers,

JT

The one on the left is a Butia.

On the photo below, the other one, on the left again, is also a Butia.

I would have said both were B. odorata (usually sold as B. capitata, which is another, much rarer species). But you may notice a big difference between the two. The first one has more droopy leaflets, with a less pronounces V-shape angle, while the leaflets of the other seem to be more rigid, and with a strong V-shape). Am I wrong?

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JasonD

When I was in Tokyo, Okayama, Nikko, Kagoshima, and Yakushima, I was struck by how common palms ("yashi") were in the landscape. In Tokyo, Trachycarpus fortunei ("shuro") and T. wagnerianus ("tojuro") were virtually weeds, and looked much healthier than they do in California. There were even mature Trachycarpus in Nikko, a temple city tucked in a valley in the mountains north of Tokyo. Cycas revoluta (not a palm) and Trachycarpus spp. appeared to be crucial elements in every classical garden where they would survive. The grounds of Tokyo's Meiji Jinggu shrine are carpeted in Trachycarpus fortunei seedlings, clearly allowed to remain until they develop trunks. Along the shore of the Seto Inland Sea near Okayama, Phoenix canariensis, Livistona chinensis, and Washingtonia robusta were popular. At Kagoshima, in a more subtropical zone on the south end of Kyushu, Phoenix roebelenii were common. On Yakushima, three hours by ferry south of Kagoshima, Livistona chinensis self-sowed in the forest, while Archontophoenix alexandrae were cultivated in good numbers, and other tropical genera like Hyophorbe appeared.

My friend Jared Braiterman maintains a blog dedicated to urban gardening in Japan called Tokyo Green Space. He frequently takes note of palms in the city and beyond. He wrote a nice series of posts about a trip he and his husband took to Chichijima in the Ogasawara (Bonin) Islands, where Clinostigma savoryanum and Livistona boninensis are indigenous and grow in the same habitat.

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JT in Japan

The last photo looks like Rhapis, the lady palm. Given what is in your area I bet you would also be seeing Chamaerops humilis, the mediterranean fam palm.

Yes, this is Rhapis but in a strange and poor condition.

japanese topiary style? or frost damage?

I think you'll see much more beautiful Rhapis somewhere else!

Regards

Philippe

Thanks Phillippe and Xerarch, that's helpful info on the Rhapis. From what I read on PASCOA, a lot of the derivatives of Rhapis have Japanese names. I wonder if these are local hybrids...? I'll keep looking for them.

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JT in Japan

When I was in Tokyo, Okayama, Nikko, Kagoshima, and Yakushima, I was struck by how common palms ("yashi") were in the landscape. In Tokyo, Trachycarpus fortunei ("shuro") and T. wagnerianus ("tojuro") were virtually weeds, and looked much healthier than they do in California.

Thanks for the wealth of info, David. I agree with the comment about Trachys growing like weeds here, but have yet to see a single specimen (at least in my neighborhood and haunts) of the Trachys looking good. I'm drafting a post (and gathering photos) calling them the Pye Dogs of Japan -- unkempt, uncared-for, un-fed, un-watered, etc, etc. Pics at Eleven!

I'm keeping a copy of therest of your comment, and will start looking in earnest for ore palms. Thanks!

JT

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Brian Bruning

I was in Japan in the mid 80s. Lots of Trachycarpus fortunei and Raphis but little else. I was south of Tokyo where mandarins are grown commercially. There were some canariensis and washingtonias but they didn't look great to me. They both do better in California. I never got to the deep south of Japan. Try palms from Argentina, southern Brazil and Australia, they'd be better adapted.

Mushrooms are a money maker there. We export a lot to them and folks scour the hills north of SF to the Canadian border to get the choise types that sell for big bucks. A palm nursery on the side would be good though. I recently bought a book called "Palms for South Texas" by Richard Travis which you should get. They too get frosts some very hard but have heat and you'll have adequate rainfall which they often lack. Here in northern CA I have cool summers to the 70s and low 80s by day and 60 at night, very few hot days and hard frost is once in a generation at my home. The last time was '89/90. Then the commercial citrus growers had a crop failure and even the plants along the freeway suffered.

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Brian Bruning

Accoeloraphe wrightii "Everglades Palm" should grow tremendously for you. Hardy to the low twenties it would love southern Japan.

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JT in Japan

Accoeloraphe wrightii "Everglades Palm" should grow tremendously for you. Hardy to the low twenties it would love southern Japan.

Thanks Brian, I like this one. Looks very ornamental.

JT

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