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Is This Climate Suitable For Cocos nucifera ?

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greekpalm

As the title says. Is there any change for a cocos to survive there?

Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol#Climate (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3300 hours) If yes this would be a potential new record.

Here's a second link for a different place http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Ierapetra (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3100 hours) If yes this would be the only place in Europe (geographically) where it could survive.

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stygiana

Coconuts in the Mediterranean... A long story. Almost like the never ending efforts made in South California.

I was told a tall Cocos once stood in San Diego (but was moved to a different place and then died) and Cyprus climate is very very similar to San Diego's.

I also saw the photos of the famous young one growing at Newport. Incredible.

So there is a little chance, especially if it is planted on a south facing wall, at low altitude, not right by the sea (winter storms and excessive salt while dormant would make irreversible damage) with plenty of warm good quality water (a rare product in the Mediterranean where tap water is cold in spring and frequently saturated with lime or other bad minerals).

But above all, I would suggest to try different forms / varieties.

Pritchardia pacifica and Theobroma cacao do well here, to give you an indicator. I use to consider them to be more tender than coconut. But still : Although I have a fantastic 'red rangiroa dwarf' that I planted as a seedling in early January (the worst thing to do) which grows well, and while 'Maypan' and most Malayan are fine, up to 400 m altitude; I however have a 'tall panaman' which suffered so much from the cold spell we had last week that it seems like frozen. While we were much, SO much warmer than any cold spell or even just average cool winter temp in San Diego or Cyprus... Keep in mind that my experience is not ideal. All I read about "cold hardiness" in Florida is useless for me. They only focus on frost (which is normal, I do not criticize) and they have long, very long hot, super hot summers. While here, temperatures below 13°C (55F) at dawn are exceptional. But we have long... cool spring, and some heat loving species hate that.

It is sad how difficult it can be to find identified varieties of Cocos nucifera. Because that could help. Acording to the variety, the result can be so different. I am loosing all the upper part of a breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis seeded, unnamed) clearly because of the cold snap, while another breadfruit under similar conditions ('mafala') is fine.

But if a similar success as the specimen grown at Newport could be made in Cyprus (or in Almuñecar/Nerja), that would be coooool. :drool:

Edited by Sebastian Bano

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Tyrone

The first place in Cyprus is almost identical to Perth except it is a tad cooler in winter than Perth especially along the coast. However if it is fairly common to get 12C max's in winter, I think this may do a coconut in. Here we may only get a max that low once a decade or longer. Winter maximums are what counts for Cocos. You could do it with special protection in that place, but they would almost certainly die unaided there, like they do here in Perth unless you are lucky enough to jag the right spot as some have done here. The second place is too cold in winter, and you'd likely need extra heating to keep it alive through every winter.

Best regards

Tyrone

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stygiana

Good point Tyrone (I like your avatar, cheikh Yerbouti!). Is there any Coconut around Perth? If not, where are the first ones in WA? Geralton? Carnavon? Further North?

Edited by Sebastian Bano

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Tyrone

Sebastian I have a Dwarf Malay in the ground for 3 winters and I do give it added protection with clear plastic that doesn't fully cover it in winter. It slowly grows through the winter and has grown a great deal since I planted it. It's in the best spot in my yard against a north facing wall of my house, so is snuggled into a nice cosy corner away from the cold winter winds.

I know of another one about 15km north of me growing unprotected in a similar position that the owner must have fluked. It's not the best looking example but it's got a trunk that kind of runs along the ground like a Nannorhops and has large 4m long leaves. It's been there for years, and I don't think gets any real fertiliser like mine so grows very slowly. I've also heard of other people with coconuts in the northern beach suburbs, but have never seen them myself. So some people do have coconuts here, but they are far from an easy grow, and those who have them but don't look after them would likely lose them if we had a cold winter. Last winter was the worst on record and mine looked quite beaten up come Sep, but it's since outgrown it all. Will have to get a picture up.

Jurien Bay, around 160km north has a coconut I've seen, and Geraldton (400km north) is a place where they will grow, but they're still touchy there. Kalbarri about 100km further on they fruit all the time although they're only small and Carnarvon 900km north of Perth they are a common landscape palm with no real issues.

Best regards

Tyrone

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nomolos

A beccariophoenix would be a good substitute

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Takil-Explorer

Why not planting a Roystonea regalis instead! I am just back from Cuba and saw them by the thousends there! Its a much nicer palm then Cocos nucifera. Well the last one is good for a coco loco though...

And maybe Roystone violacea is an option to! I have seen that one too in the Maquina area.

Alexander

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basilios
The first place in Cyprus is almost identical to Perth except it is a tad cooler in winter than Perth especially along the coast. However if it is fairly common to get 12C max's in winter, I think this may do a coconut in. Here we may only get a max that low once a decade or longer.

12C maximum is very uncommon in Limassol...maybe once or twice every year, sometimes every two years. It's possible that I'll move to Limassol to live there pretty soon, so in that case I'll definitely try a coconut if I find one. A long shot, agreed, but I'd love to try it anyway.

P.S. : Another interesting characteristic of Limassol (and of all southern Cyprus) climate is its high humidity. Most of the days the humidity varies between 60 and 75%, so during summer it feels a lot like the tropics (although actual rain is very rare).

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greekpalm

The first place in Cyprus is almost identical to Perth except it is a tad cooler in winter than Perth especially along the coast. However if it is fairly common to get 12C max's in winter, I think this may do a coconut in. Here we may only get a max that low once a decade or longer.

12C maximum is very uncommon in Limassol...maybe once or twice every year, sometimes every two years. It's possible that I'll move to Limassol to live there pretty soon, so in that case I'll definitely try a coconut if I find one. A long shot, agreed, but I'd love to try it anyway.

P.S. : Another interesting characteristic of Limassol (and of all southern Cyprus) climate is its high humidity. Most of the days the humidity varies between 60 and 75%, so during summer it feels a lot like the tropics (although actual rain is very rare).

Basili what do you think about the second link (Ierapetra) ? humidity is noticeably lower there. I love Cyprus for its pleasant winter weather,,,, but hot humid summers... i don't know....

Crete on the other hand is not that humid in the summer, and I like its culture ....

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SouthSeaNate

I have always thought a Cocos could be grown in a sheltered spot in Malta. I have been amazed by some of the truely tropical plants I have seen growing there over the years.

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basilios

Well, Ierapetra's climate is as good as it gets in Greece if you want to grow palms...Completely frostless and warmer in winter than every other part of Greece. Of course it's a small city in the southest tip of Greece and if you thinking of move there, you have to consider many other things... Rhodes has an excellent climate too.

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greekpalm

The only place where I could live in Rodos (climate wise) would be Lindos, all the other places are way to humid in the summer,,, I know thats what palms like ... but I'm no palmmrlooney.gif

(BTW they dont have summer northern winds over there there(meltemia))

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Tassie_Troy1971

Honestly you guys in marginal areas should pull the pin on Coconuts and plant a Parajubaea they would grow really well in a Med climate and look perfect unlike coconuts :Dpost-1252-094834100 1301216087_thumb.jpg

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basilios

Troy you're right, parajubaeas are of course safe bets. It's just that if you live in a marginal area, coconut-wise, well, you might as well try it just for the heck of it....I believe that's why so many guys in California, central Florida and southern Australia keep trying it. Besides, I don't believe it has been seriously tried in Cyprus, so why not be the first to do it? It probably won't work but...

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SouthSeaNate

I did a little research & it seems there is a Cocos nucifera growing outside at the Palermo Botanic Garden on Sicily, so I believe it would be possible to grow one on Malta. Incidently Valletta has the warmest winter climate of any European capital city...

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Tyrone

Honestly you guys in marginal areas should pull the pin on Coconuts and plant a Parajubaea they would grow really well in a Med climate and look perfect unlike coconuts :Dpost-1252-094834100 1301216087_thumb.jpg

I do agree with you Troy. If mine dies I won't try again. Admittedly after germinating a heap of coconuts before my current one and killing them all (not always from cold) I had given up. Then one day I was driving by Bunnings in Geraldton and thought, "Why not take a look and see if they have any". They did and for $60 I walked out with a Golden Dwarf Malay and crammed it into the back seat of the Falcon for the 4hr drive back to Perth. I pulled out every trick I knew and now it's into its 4th year and it has tripled in size. Winters are now scary for me, because I'm now emotionally attached to it. :D

But there is something about the coconut you just have to have in my opinion.

If it dies I'll be trying another marginal, Adonidia merillii in its place. So I don't learn. :)

I'm going to really try and promote the coconut look a likes here though. Parajubaea for one, Beccariophoenix and even Jubaeopsis. They're all way more cold tolerant than the real thing. Would love to get my hands on a V gerardii too.

My proposed front courtyard area where the coconut is will have no ordinary palms in it. It will be full of B alfredii, B madagascariensis, B windows, Jubaeopsis, P cocoides and P sunkha as the canopy. To the casual observer it should look like a bit of Hawaii or Indo Malaysia. :)

Best regards

Tyrone

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Donald Sanders

I lived in S. Cal for many years and I tried to grow cocos nucifera many times. In the end I put them in pots and took them in the winter.

If I lived in now in S. Cal, yes I would still be trying cocos nucifera, look at the beauty in Huntington Bch. The next one to make it could be mine, in my garden. Now when I see how beautiful the Parajubaeas, Jubaeopsis, Raveneas and Beccairophoenix grow in S.Cal., I would plant as many as I could to insure that tropical coconut vibe. Here on the Big Island where I can grow just about anything, I still have at least a dozen cocos nucifera. It's still my favorite. Lot's of dwarft varieties that would be perfect for a glass house or a tight protected space in S. Cal might have a chance. I've seen them here as high as 2000', real cool, still with lots of nuts, so I think some have a chance if babied in high maintenance gardens in S. Cal. I'm still moved here in remote areas and I see old wild stands of these naturalized coconut palms in the hundreds and you can tell they have been there for generations. I recently took a heliocopter ride through the Waimanu Valley and other valleys along the coast and was again impressed by the dense wild coconuts and the pritchardias all in the valleys inland.

I have been growing a beccariophoenix windows here in Holualoa. I bought it as a 4 inc. seedling from Jeff Marcus about 6 years ago. It is really beautiful, fast growing and fast. I planted it the same time as a coconut, both next to each other. At a quick glance it's hard to tell the becc. is not a coconut. Good luck with becc.in S.Cal. Plant a lot of them and for sure you got some to florish. If I lived there in Cal I'd be planting them all over the place.

The coconut palm to me is the supreme icon. I am sure that there are gardens in S. Cal, especially the low desert, where they will grow.

Good luck.

Here now in Hawaii from S.Cal. about 23 years. I love all the palms, coconut is still my favorite.

Aloha, Don Sanders

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greekpalm

I did a little research & it seems there is a Cocos nucifera growing outside at the Palermo Botanic Garden on Sicily, so I believe it would be possible to grow one on Malta. Incidently Valletta has the warmest winter climate of any European capital city...

are you sure there is a Cocos outside in Palermo ? do you have any URL / Picture ???

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Takil-Explorer

Why do people want to grow stupid coconut palms when there are much nicer palms. After 6 weeks in Cuba I have seen coconutpalms with Roystonea regia so easy to compair them. The last one is much more majestic, and hardier/more cold resistant. So I would plant Roystonea. I heard they grow them in Valencia in Spain.

Alexander

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Ampli

I did a little research & it seems there is a Cocos nucifera growing outside at the Palermo Botanic Garden on Sicily, so I believe it would be possible to grow one on Malta. Incidently Valletta has the warmest winter climate of any European capital city...

are you sure there is a Cocos outside in Palermo ? do you have any URL / Picture ???

It will be beautiful, but it isn't true!!!

No one Coconut palm grow in Palermo Botanical Garden and no one Coconut palm can grow in Italy (Lampedusa included).

However there are very beautiful species as Bismarkia Nobilis, Ravenea Rivularis, Syagrus Botryophora, Ptychosperma Caryotoides... and a very large collection of cycad.

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sarasota alex

stupid coconut palms

I am not sure "stupid" is the nicesest way to put it. I know that this comes up over and over again . The line is almost always a variation of "Why would anyone want to grow coconuts, when you can grow <fill the blank from the list below>, which is a much better looking palm?" Palms on the list are usually species of Dypsis, Beccariophoenix, Parajubaea, Jubaeopsis, Roystonea, etc. One may not like coconuts as much as other palms, or may not like them at all. But for a palmlover to say that he/she doesn't understand why anyone would like a coconut is just being in denial. I personally like coconuts very much.

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SouthSeaNate

are you sure there is a Cocos outside in Palermo ? do you have any URL / Picture ???

It will be beautiful, but it isn't true!!!

No one Coconut palm grow in Palermo Botanical Garden and no one Coconut palm can grow in Italy (Lampedusa included).

However there are very beautiful species as Bismarkia Nobilis, Ravenea Rivularis, Syagrus Botryophora, Ptychosperma Caryotoides... and a very large collection of cycad.

On looking on the net I found out the info from here:

Cocos nucifera

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Tyrone

That bit about them growing at 35S in New Zealand isn't true. The plant being talked about was in the Kermadecs I think, which although part of NZ is at 28S.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Ampli

Unluckily not all the web news are true.

I gone to the Palermo Botanical garden two years ago and there aren't any Cocos Nucifera, furthermore many Sicilian palm lover reported the impossibility of Cocos cultivation in their island in many italian palm forum.

The only Cocos that grow in Palermo Botanical Garden is Cocos Plumosa, but it is Syagrus Romanzoffiana!!!

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greekpalm

Unluckily not all the web news are true.

I gone to the Palermo Botanical garden two years ago and there aren't any Cocos Nucifera, furthermore many Sicilian palm lover reported the impossibility of Cocos cultivation in their island in many italian palm forum.

The only Cocos that grow in Palermo Botanical Garden is Cocos Plumosa, but it is Syagrus Romanzoffiana!!!

Thanks for the confirmation Ampli !

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Takil-Explorer

Well I like them as well, but they are so common in tropical countries. Maybe I have seen to many of them. But they are very usefull, the most usefull tree of the tropics for food and other products. And they give that delicious coconut cream.

But for planting in a subtropical or tropical garden I woulds use more exclusive palms. But none the less:

VIVA COCOS NUCIFERA!

Alexander

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mushrooms

Why do people want to grow stupid coconut palms when there are much nicer palms. After 6 weeks in Cuba I have seen coconutpalms with Roystonea regia so easy to compair them. The last one is much more majestic, and hardier/more cold resistant. So I would plant Roystonea. I heard they grow them in Valencia in Spain.

Alexander

For me, it's not so much the look. I have this crazy fantasy about harvesting my own coconuts (er, that doesn't sound right). I mean I want to be able to drink coconut water out of a young green coconut that I grew in my yard. Such a thought brings a warm fuzzy feeling inside. I guess it's part of that inherent attraction for the tropics many of us have and I just want to be able to bring it home. :D

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Z4Devil

As you see sometimes it works in Germany. B)

My C. nucifera after 4 or 5 cocos-mites attacks ... successfully killed them and the Cocos is still alive. I hope it will survive and shows a feather leaf soon. :)

DSC00046.jpg

DSC00047.jpg

DSC00048.jpg

DSC00049.jpg

Verena :)

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Takil-Explorer

Why do people want to grow stupid coconut palms when there are much nicer palms. After 6 weeks in Cuba I have seen coconutpalms with Roystonea regia so easy to compair them. The last one is much more majestic, and hardier/more cold resistant. So I would plant Roystonea. I heard they grow them in Valencia in Spain.

Alexander

For me, it's not so much the look. I have this crazy fantasy about harvesting my own coconuts (er, that doesn't sound right). I mean I want to be able to drink coconut water out of a young green coconut that I grew in my yard. Such a thought brings a warm fuzzy feeling inside. I guess it's part of that inherent attraction for the tropics many of us have and I just want to be able to bring it home. :D

Well I do that in tropical countries. I cabn grow Trachycarpus fortunei at home. And you get nice palms along the Mediterranean. But coconuts you enyoi them in the tropics.

Maybe for those folks in colder areas, have a winterbreak in Thailand, Costa Rica or Cuba. Plenty coco there and you can go coco loco in Cuba. They even have a populair song there, coco-loco. So for the real fun...

Alexander

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nick

As the title says. Is there any change for a cocos to survive there?

Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol#Climate (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3300 hours) If yes this would be a potential new record.

Here's a second link for a different place http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Ierapetra (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3100 hours) If yes this would be the only place in Europe (geographically) where it could survive.

There must be something wrong with the climate data from Cyprus. Comparing the data from Lemesos(Limassol) to Paphos, it seems to be that Lemesos is milder and has more precipitation. It cannot be. I know other Data. Paphos region must be the winter mildest region of Cyprus and north of it to Peyia there are a lot of bananafields for commercial cultivation. This must have a reason. Beside the Canary Islands and Madeira I do not know other european regions.

Furthermore and for instance in Paphos region you can see a lot of Frangipani and some Carica papaya, Limefruit and mango as well. If you study the geological map of cyprus you can see how protect the Paphos-region is, also good for rain for mostly westerly winds.

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nick

sorry for the mistake, instead of "geological map" must be "topographic"!

Edited by nick

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greekpalm

sorry for the mistake, instead of "geological map" must be "topographic"!

Καλως ορισες Νικο !

bananas can be grown in cyprus in many places (temperature wise) but i do think that most important factors would be underground water, wind and land prices....

for more information about the climate in Cyprus you can go to http://www.moa.gov.cy/moa/ms/ms.nsf/DMLclimatological_gr/DMLclimatological_gr?OpenDocument

here are the climate graphs of lemesos (limassol) and paphos

http://www.moa.gov.cy/moa/ms/ms.nsf/All/9A2B0973E8F4E9CCC22577CE003CD8C6/$file/GRAPH_394_GR.GIF?OpenElement

http://www.moa.gov.cy/moa/ms/ms.nsf/All/94A2FA5A2BCC6B98C22577CE003C9C99/$file/GRAPH_082_GR.GIF?OpenElement

those data are taken from the national meteorological service so their measurements are made with the standardized method.

and again welcome to the forum.

Lets hope more Greek speaking members will join.

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nick

Kalimera greekpalm,

sorry, my greek is very poor, but thank you for your kind welcome.

There are many diffenrent data in circulation. Yours were official ones. But take care, the airport of Paphos is far outside south of the town, the meteorological station of Limassol seems to be in a park inside or very close to the town. The countryside between Paphos-North and Limassol looks different, greener in Paphos-Peyia that the reason cannot only be under the ground or about the land prices :winkie: . My observation is that more tropical plants can be found in Paphos area.

Very good and detailed climate information with historical data (day by day) can be found here: http://www.tutiempo.net/en/Climate/Paphos_Airport/01-01-2010/176000.htm

Interesting are the hours of sunshine/year comparing

Paphos (3.414) to Larnaca (3.356)

and the precipitation which is less in Larnaca

I was thinking about planting a cocos nucifera in our garden but the decision was now taken for "beccariophoenix alfredii", I might try it later with a coco.

Edited by nick

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greekpalm

around paphos everything is greener due to the fact there is more rain and humidity over there...

i would love to see how cocos do in cyprus

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basilios

I've been to Paphos just once (hot and humid, it was summer!), but I've spent a lot of time in Limassol and I can testify that I've seen carica papaya, ravenala, roystonea regia, hyophorbe lagenicaulis, schefflera actinophylla (full of flowers - it usually flowers only in warm climates) and other tropicals growing in the streets and gardens and seemingly doing very well. If I were living in Limassol or Paphos I would definitely try a cocos in a protected spot, I think it has good chances to survive, at least for a few years...and who knows, maybe more.

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nick

If I were living in Limassol or Paphos I would definitely try a cocos in a protected spot, I think it has good chances to survive, at least for a few years...and who knows, maybe more.

My opinion too, within the EU, cyprus gives cocos n. the best chance to survive and If there is a possibility to convince my wife about that, I will try it. :winkie:

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Takil-Explorer

If you want to grow Cocos nucifera in the EU you can move to the Canary Islands or the southcoast of Madeira. But in lots of places in the Med you can grow Howeas. Well you need to hang some coconuts in them but then you get And when I see those pictures of that Lord Howe Island with all those Howeas it looks very similair to coconuttrees! They give that same feeling.

Alexander

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Takil-Explorer

Lord Howe Island with all those Howeas, it realy looks like a subtropical version of a tropical island/coastal landscape with coconut palms! Some look even identical to a coconut palm! So to all those folks whom can perfectly grow Howeas but no Coconut palms...

I wish we could grow Howeas outside here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alexander

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nick

For somebody who is looking after similar palms like "cocos nucifera" there are some more possibilities, like “jubeopsis caffra” or “Beccariophoenix xxx”. But those, who want to try it on an own plott (and have space for it), there is no other way than the original.

Rather difficult to get an adequate variety (e.g. Maypan), especially in Cyprus, or trying it with a nut from the supermarket nearly without any risks or costs. But then you cannot make a general statement if it works or not.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. :rolleyes::winkie:

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greekpalm

nick i would say go for it !

try as many varieties as possible with as many samples as possible in pots. After some while select the fittest of them all ( a good looking cocos that just got a new world record is even better than one that just survived!)

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