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Vincent

26 degrees this am in Punta Gorda,FL

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Vincent

Temps hit 26 early this morning. It is currently 29 degrees. It is not yet winter. Given the extreme cold of the past two years, I think my zone needs to be changed from 9 to a lower number- maybe 8a. So much for Kentiopsis oliviformis and Satakentias. What happened to the global warming theory? Any ideas?

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Johnk9

Temps hit 26 early this morning. It is currently 29 degrees. It is not yet winter. Given the extreme cold of the past two years, I think my zone needs to be changed from 9 to a lower number- maybe 8a. So much for Kentiopsis oliviformis and Satakentias. What happened to the global warming theory? Any ideas?

Vincent,

I live in Port Charlotte and have not seen it this cold 30 years John

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Steve the palmreader

The temp at 10 pm last night on Pine Island was 38 I was very worried but the temp only fell to 37 overnight what a relief::winkie: :

Temps hit 26 early this morning. It is currently 29 degrees. It is not yet winter. Given the extreme cold of the past two years, I think my zone needs to be changed from 9 to a lower number- maybe 8a. So much for Kentiopsis oliviformis and Satakentias. What happened to the global warming theory? Any ideas?

Edited by Steve the palmreader

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cfkingfish

I had the same paranoia when it read 36 at 10 pm too, but it only dropped to 32F. I was in North Port around 9pm near the interstate, and it was already at freezing, I am sure it got a lot colder.

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Johnk9

I had the same paranoia when it read 36 at 10 pm too, but it only dropped to 32F. I was in North Port around 9pm near the interstate, and it was already at freezing, I am sure it got a lot colder.

They said on the news at %am it was 30 deg here it then dropped to 28.

At 10 am it is 44 already.

John

Edited by Johnk9

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gsytch

I was reading how Global Warming creates the cold. It can allow warmer temperatures up in the far north to produce more snow which produces more cold to flow down. In bitter cold it rarely snows as its too dry. They also likened it to a fridge being left open. As the warmer air gets sucked in colder air flows out (in our case down). But, weather is cyclical and we are in a negative cycle. I vote for positive - who is with me?

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BS Man about Palms

I vote that the weather IS ALWAYS changing...the question is if anything or anyone is actually responsible for it. :blink:

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Alan_Tampa

I want positive too. More hot, less crap.

Alan

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Takil-Explorer

The cold could have to do with global warming. Chance in the high and lowpressure situation wich creates this crazy weather. And its not only the US but also Europe and Asia! China gets really cold now to! Also the jetstream maye be weaker then normal.

Alexander

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Ed in Houston

It is bad enough with all the cold due to global warming, soon we will have flooding due to the drought....

Ed in Houston

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AggiePalms

It is way too cold all over the southeast! My palms are not happy! How can we plan our gardens for the long term?

The problem with coupled atmospheric/oceanographic models is they are unfortunately too simplistic. We hear "global warming" and we naturally assume the entire globe gets warmer and warmer continually in all locations. The general circulation models (GCM)are much more complex, however, and show lots of variability in temps; and we certainly do not have GCM's capable of modeling cycles. We of course want to assume a consistent future temperature to predict if our zone-pushing palms will survive; this seems to be incorrect.

So, if global warming is occurring (if...), some areas may not have steady increases in temperature, a problem if we want to plant zone 10 plants here in Georgia. As a model, we know what will happen when we drop some blue dye into a glass of water. The drop sinks, and the water gets blue. But does all the water immediately turn the same color of blue and stay that blue? There are currents and eddies that form and make some areas very blue, others not blue at all, at least for a while. And the eddies would never have formed if we had not dropped the dye into the glass. Just like the extra heat in the atmosphereand today's weather.

We have to hope that if excess heat is stored in the future atmosphere, that it will be stable enough to allow long term planning of our palm gardens. Right now we are seeing instability and not simplistic climate predictions. Only science will tell.

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Dypsisdean

The cold could have to do with global warming.

Well then, I sure hope we get some global cooling soon, so it will warm up. :)

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Takil-Explorer

Still not warm enough on Hawaii???

Crazy!

Alexander

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Takil-Explorer

If thats true we are done here in N.W. Europe! Then every winter will be like this one!

Time to immigrate I guess...

Alexander

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Vincent

It is 8:30am, the sun is out and there is ice. Twenty nine degrees- still. Hard freeze in effect again. Not sure what the low was but 28 or lower would not be out of the question. We have set new all time lows though here in Punta Gorda. Maybe there is some climate engineering going on? Would it be too way out to think that scientists are tampering with the weather? I will admit to reading too many science fiction books.

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Pez

It is 8:30am, the sun is out and there is ice. Twenty nine degrees- still. Hard freeze in effect again. Not sure what the low was but 28 or lower would not be out of the question. We have set new all time lows though here in Punta Gorda. Maybe there is some climate engineering going on? Would it be too way out to think that scientists are tampering with the weather? I will admit to reading too many science fiction books.

China does it.

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Moose

If thats true we are done here in N.W. Europe! Then every winter will be like this one!

Time to immigrate I guess...

Alexander

With your noted distain for Florida, I certainly hope you choose not to emigrate here ! :wacko:

37 F low for me today.

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epicure3

It is 8:30am, the sun is out and there is ice. Twenty nine degrees- still. Hard freeze in effect again. Not sure what the low was but 28 or lower would not be out of the question. We have set new all time lows though here in Punta Gorda. Maybe there is some climate engineering going on? Would it be too way out to think that scientists are tampering with the weather? I will admit to reading too many science fiction books.

China does it.

I remember, back in the day, when someone would have said "The Russians did it".

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amazondk

If thats true we are done here in N.W. Europe! Then every winter will be like this one!

Time to immigrate I guess...

Alexander

With your noted distain for Florida, I certainly hope you choose not to emigrate here ! :wacko:

37 F low for me today.

I have not yet figured out if Alexander does not like Florida. Or if he just likes giving Floridians a hard time. Anyway the world is full of warm places to move to. Maybe Timor would be a good option if not Florida. Interestingly enough the dutch are one of the larger groups of people that visit my area. In fact there is a dutch owned jungle hotel on the other side of he Negro River.

dk

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greekpalm

I vote that the weather IS ALWAYS changing...the question is if anything or anyone is actually responsible for it. :blink:

i totally agree with you !!! the weather was NEVER stable ... even when we use the word "climate" we are talking about a momentum in history (the last 20 or 25 years)

I'm not saying that polluting is OK but i can't say that we are responsible for the "climate" changes...

do some research on solar cycles and different earth cycles.

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amazondk

Here in Brazil the national news does not even know what to say about the world weather anymore. Their great statement last night while showing the blizzards and freezing conditions in the north and the heat and rain storms in Brazil was " In these times of climate change extreme cold and heat have become more common" . I don´t know but from what I can see the only thing the climate does or ever has done is change. And, it is supposed to be cold in the winter and hot in the summer. I can still remember well going out to play in the snow in Montana when a child in weather 40 F below zero. it was great, but short lived fun.

dk

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sonoranfans

Anthropogenic warming is big business, 50 Billion in the last 10 years has been funded to find the proof of man made warming. The united states government has spent 30 Billion alone in the last 6 years funding anthropogenic warming proponents. Cap and trade taxes on fuel consumption are approaching 100B per year in europe. The brokering fees alone are in the 1Billion range! On the other hand big oil has reportedly spent 100 million in that time to disprove anthropogenic warming(largest estimate by proponents of anthropogenic warming). A Professor of MIT(sloane professor of climatology) has been sued by the state of california for public statements evoking doubt regarding anthropogenic warming. I have never heard of science critics being sued... ever. Its easy to see that many academics are getting huge grants -in a time of difficulty in obtaining public funding- to support anthropogenic warming, but comparatively little money is going to the critics(~500 times less). When your academic career depends on your ability to obtain funding, and your funding depends on results, its obvious that the survivors will bend to the will of the funding apparatus. Draw your own conclusions on the vested interests here, big oil and other lobbying groups are all involved. I am no fan of big oil, and I dont deny that there is evidence of climate change from natural sources, if not from man. But which fox is in the henhouse?

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=38D98C0A-802A-23AD-48AC-D9F7FACB61A7

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tropicbreeze

The norm here is for the lowest minimum temperatures to be during winter, the lowest maximums are during summer. The highest maximums are during late winter and spring, highest minimums are during spring and summer.

People have too many pre/mis-conceptions about weather cycles. They get a couple of good years and immediately assume that's normal. When it goes pear shaped they're crying "This is the coldest ever!", but statistics shows that 10, 15, or whatever years before it was worse.

"One swallow does not make spring."

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war_eagle

I do believe sonoranfans hit the nail on the head. Much of what is called science these days is merely shopping for someone with supposed credibility to pitch the predetermined, desired result.

As people that are obsessed with plants we, of all people, should realize that carbon dioxide is not a poisonous gas. Ask someone who works in a commercial greenhouse, they elevate their CO2 levels three or more times the normal atmospheric levels of CO2 to promote growth. Obviously real polutants are a big problem, but CO2 is just used because taxing it would produce the most money.

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spockvr6

Tropicbreeze-

I agree with you on the bemoaning of winter.

But, the fact is that, for my area at least with records dating to 1892, it will be the coldest December ever recorded, and so by a notable margin. It may even end up being the coldest month ever recorded.

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tropicbreeze

This is off another gardening web site:

"1894: The worst freeze ever in Florida occurred, when Orlando dropped to an all-time record low of 18 degrees. That freeze, accompanied by another one the following February, destroyed approximately 98% of the citrus trees in the Florida Peninsula."

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sonoranfans

Just to clarify, the state of florida is currently averaging (not extremes) the lowest temperature for the month of december on record. This was on the (tampa) channel 9 weather program. This is not several extreme lows or some lay persons interpretation it is the meteoroligists calculation tropic breeze.

Edited by sonoranfans

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velutina

Really? another... "it's cold here, where's global warming?" thread?? rolleyes.gif

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koolthing78

Really? another... "it's cold here, where's global warming?" thread?? rolleyes.gif

To be honest [at the risk of affecting my warning status :mrlooney: ], I've always been in the 'open to the possibility of it' camp, and therefore been mildly annoyed when people (such as in response to Yahoo! news stories about the blizzard) make snarky, short-sighted [and after a while sadly repetetive] comments about having to "scrape eight inches of 'global warming' off my car;" but I am really starting to get sick of this, to the point where I'm getting b****y and starting to grouse among my own inner voices, because either they were totally off, or we're REALLY getting the short end of the stick during this "transition" period, and either way it's pi$$ing me the f$%@ off!

Btw, it's 34* here in Seminole at 11 pm; I think we're gonna surpass that forecast 37* low.

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amazondk

This is off another gardening web site:

"1894: The worst freeze ever in Florida occurred, when Orlando dropped to an all-time record low of 18 degrees. That freeze, accompanied by another one the following February, destroyed approximately 98% of the citrus trees in the Florida Peninsula."

The quote you cite above got me thinking about Florida history and role of Flagler bringing the railway to South Florida played in moving the focus of the citrus industry and it´s relation to this freeze event. So I found this quote,

"The popular story is that it took a cold winter freeze of 1894/95 and Mrs. Julia B. Tuttle to persuade him to continue to Miami. In reality it was the 8,000 acres granted from the state for each mile of railroad track he built and the gift of about 600 acres by two local families of what was to be downtown Miami that brought Flagler to Fort Dallas on April 16, 1896. Fort Dallas incorporated as Miami in July that same year. Most believe that he also had a vision of proceeding further south." from this article - Henry Flagler

It is interesting history and the people of the times have their names stamped all over south Florida.

dk

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philinsydney

If thats true we are done here in N.W. Europe! Then every winter will be like this one!

Time to immigrate I guess...

Alexander

With your noted distain for Florida, I certainly hope you choose not to emigrate here ! :wacko:

37 F low for me today.

I think Alexander would be happy in Niceville, Florida :) .

Failing that, we have a town called Charmhaven here in NSW he could emigrate to.

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Dave-Vero

It looks as though smoke from a big wildfire in the St. Johns River marshes is raising our temperature back to just above freezing.

The hourly measurements at 12:53, 1:53, and 2:53 were 29 or 28. Now, with the haze arrived, it's 33 at 3:53 on a light northwest breeze--from the fire.

The Interstate 95 expressway is closed in southern Brevard and northern Indian River counties due to the smoke.

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gsytch

29.7f right now at 6am. Hit freezing just prior to midnight. COLDER than last night and longer duration below freezing. FROST everywhere. While we are not as cold of a temp as last year, it is a long duration and they missed the ball on that. THAT SAID, I'll move to Tampa where it is a toasty 34f despite Carrolwood (10 mi away) is at 27F. Again, de-icing of planes doesn't take place at 34f and they are stalled once again. Someones really needs to move that therm! St Pete reports 45f, yet Largo is at 30f - just minutes away? Brooksville is at 17 at FAWN and Bronson, two counties N in a colder pocket is 31F? I checked Orlando. The TV station reports 34f while the Airport is at 29f. Orlando is not that much of a heat island as it is spread out. My local FOX 13 did get the temps right on this one as they called for freezing temps tonight, and he even said just after midnight they would begin to pop up. Can I hit 60f today? I have not seen 50f since Xmas. The cold Gulf will now prevent daytimes from warming with the seabreezes. I hope my Broms are fine. Anything sensitive is gone, I am sure! :drool:

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tropicbreeze

Just to clarify, the state of florida is currently averaging (not extremes) the lowest temperature for the month of december on record. This was on the (tampa) channel 9 weather program. This is not several extreme lows or some lay persons interpretation it is the meteoroligists calculation tropic breeze.

And your point is, sonoranfans?

(By the way, it's meteorologists.)

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sonoranfans

Just to clarify, the state of florida is currently averaging (not extremes) the lowest temperature for the month of december on record. This was on the (tampa) channel 9 weather program. This is not several extreme lows or some lay persons interpretation it is the meteoroligists calculation tropic breeze.

And your point is, sonoranfans?

(By the way, it's meteorologists.)

See if you can get the point from your quote:

"People have too many pre/mis-conceptions about weather cycles. They get a couple of good years and immediately assume that's normal. When it goes pear shaped they're crying "This is the coldest ever!", but statistics shows that 10, 15, or whatever years before it was worse."

and mine:

"the state of florida is currently averaging (not extremes) the lowest temperature for the month of december on record"

And yes I spelled meterologists wrong and you improperly wrote "statistics shows", it should be "statistics show", but being this is just a forum who cares.

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Vincent

.World U.S. N.Y. / Region Business Technology Science Health Sports Opinion

EditorialsColumnistsContributorsLettersThe Public EditorGlobal OpinionArts Style Travel Jobs Real Estate Autos Op-Ed Contributor

Here is a NYT piece on global warming and cooling. Interesting read. Thanks Eddie:

Related in Opinion

Dot Earth Blog: Putting a Siberian Snow Connection to the Test (December 28, 2010) THE earth continues to get warmer, yet it’s feeling a lot colder outside. Over the past few weeks, subzero temperatures in Poland claimed 66 lives; snow arrived in Seattle well before the winter solstice, and fell heavily enough in Minneapolis to make the roof of the Metrodome collapse; and last week blizzards closed Europe’s busiest airports in London and Frankfurt for days, stranding holiday travelers. The snow and record cold have invaded the Eastern United States, with more bad weather predicted.

All of this cold was met with perfect comic timing by the release of a World Meteorological Organization report showing that 2010 will probably be among the three warmest years on record, and 2001 through 2010 the warmest decade on record.

How can we reconcile this? The not-so-obvious short answer is that the overall warming of the atmosphere is actually creating cold-weather extremes. Last winter, too, was exceptionally snowy and cold across the Eastern United States and Eurasia, as were seven of the previous nine winters.

For a more detailed explanation, we must turn our attention to the snow in Siberia.

Annual cycles like El Niño/Southern Oscillation, solar variability and global ocean currents cannot account for recent winter cooling. And though it is well documented that the earth’s frozen areas are in retreat, evidence of thinning Arctic sea ice does not explain why the world’s major cities are having colder winters.

But one phenomenon that may be significant is the way in which seasonal snow cover has continued to increase even as other frozen areas are shrinking. In the past two decades, snow cover has expanded across the high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, especially in Siberia, just north of a series of exceptionally high mountain ranges, including the Himalayas, the Tien Shan and the Altai.

The high topography of Asia influences the atmosphere in profound ways. The jet stream, a river of fast-flowing air five to seven miles above sea level, bends around Asia’s mountains in a wavelike pattern, much as water in a stream flows around a rock or boulder. The energy from these atmospheric waves, like the energy from a sound wave, propagates both horizontally and vertically.

As global temperatures have warmed and as Arctic sea ice has melted over the past two and a half decades, more moisture has become available to fall as snow over the continents. So the snow cover across Siberia in the fall has steadily increased.

The sun’s energy reflects off the bright white snow and escapes back out to space. As a result, the temperature cools. When snow cover is more abundant in Siberia, it creates an unusually large dome of cold air next to the mountains, and this amplifies the standing waves in the atmosphere, just as a bigger rock in a stream increases the size of the waves of water flowing by.

The increased wave energy in the air spreads both horizontally, around the Northern Hemisphere, and vertically, up into the stratosphere and down toward the earth’s surface. In response, the jet stream, instead of flowing predominantly west to east as usual, meanders more north and south. In winter, this change in flow sends warm air north from the subtropical oceans into Alaska and Greenland, but it also pushes cold air south from the Arctic on the east side of the Rockies. Meanwhile, across Eurasia, cold air from Siberia spills south into East Asia and even southwestward into Europe.

That is why the Eastern United States, Northern Europe and East Asia have experienced extraordinarily snowy and cold winters since the turn of this century. Most forecasts have failed to predict these colder winters, however, because the primary drivers in their models are the oceans, which have been warming even as winters have grown chillier. They have ignored the snow in Siberia.

Last week, the British government asked its chief science adviser for an explanation. My advice to him is to look to the east.

It’s all a snow job by nature. The reality is, we’re freezing not in spite of climate change but because of it.

Judah Cohen is the director of seasonal forecasting at an atmospheric and environmental research firm.

A version of this op-ed appeared in print on December 26, 2010, on page WK16 of the New York edition..

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junglegalfla

I think I was/am below freezing. Weather stations are conflicting nearby. Lets say I'm anywhere from 31-35 at the moment. Frost all over though. Everyone dropped the ball on my forecast!!

My projected lows were

NWS - 41

Accuweather - 42

Weather.com - 43

underground - 38

I went to sleep feeling pretty good. I should have known better. :rage: Is it possible they are lumping my zip into st pete airports forecast? I wish they'd ignore that spot all together. It is soooo deceiving to everyone who lives here!!! :(

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Vincent

My buddy Butch is a farmer (flowers and vegetables) a little south from me. His thermometer in the backfield registered 23 degrees yesterday! There was nothing in the forecast for this! His farm is well west of I75 and US41. It is located closed to water- Charlotte Harbor. Butch was up all night doing what he could to prevent damage. Twenty three degrees!

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gsytch

I agree, Bren. I checked temps all over at 630am on different levels. TIA was at 35f yet planes were stalled due to ice. Pinellas Park reported 30f while St Pete was at 45f? Dover FAWN was at 24f, Brooksville at 17f (I still do not know about that one). Hudson recored 26f while I nibbled 29f. Below freezing here since midnight and HEAVY frost. HEAVY. I went above freezing at 8am and am now 37f. It never even made 50f yesterday and they called for "middle 50's"....Even Tarpon's warm therm was below freezing at 1am. Records have been set that were 100 years old. December 2010 has been a HUGE bummer! :angry:

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amazondk

I am just curious, have there been many freshwater fish dying due to the cold? I would imagine that in South Florida some fish like the peacock bass that are in the canals may be affected. They are like tropical palms and can not take anything remotely cold.

I feel for you all experiencing the cold this year.

dk

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