The Creation of My New Palm Garden

[bgl]

Bill,

Yes, just watching Kyle drive the D-8 is pretty exciting, and at times outright scary. When it looks like it's going to tip over, it makes you wonder what goes through his mind. And did he know that he was going to get himself into a precarious situation? A couple of times he inadvertently headed down into a deep crack and it's almost like this entire machine simply disappears from view, sometimes leaning precariously to one side. When he's driving into this very thick vegetation it's impossible for him to see the ground so if all of a sudden there's a ten foot drop, that comes as a complete surprise to him. We are up to 7 hr 40 minutes now, so almost halfway done. But he took today off.

Bo-Göran

[redant]

So other then the garden I gather you have house plans as well, can you tell us anything about it in another section of the forum, would be interesting to see what you have in mind.

Doug

[bgl]

Doug,

Actually I do have some thoughts, but it would be premature at this point to get into that. Funny you should ask - I was having lunch at Cafe Pesto in Hilo a few days ago and was approached by the people at the next table and they invited me to join them. Some of them were visiting from the mainland. And one guy lives up near Waipio Valley, which is a spectacular place, and he told me about his house, which is almost all glass. Hardly any "real" wallspace. And he invited me to visit him and see the design. Sounds intriguing. So I intend to drive up there in the near future. It's about a 1 hr 45 min drive from here. I may take some photos.

Bo-Göran

[Justin]

Don't throw stones...

[LJG]

I never understood why it mattered when Dean told me. You can clear by hand, but not with tractor? A bunch of people can do the same damage as a tractor I would bet.

Len,

By hand you cannot uproot the large centuries old trees in the Kaloko forest, break up rock, or change topography and ancient drainage patterns. And it is much less disruptive to the wildlife. In addition, you can not scrape a plot clean in an afternoon, after which it is too late to do anything about it. It would take hundreds of years to regenerate here in Kona, and because of all the invasive species now present, it would never again return to the native ecosystem. Plus, a slight change of topography upslope has been known to flood large previously safe areas occupied by homes downhill.

Dean if you have time and money, people can do the same as machine. Think the pyramids were built with tractors Score! Two points.

Bo is a lucky man. He has now had the opportunity to build three palm gardens for himself. I am at one still.

[leomx]

nah, he´s just archimillionaire.

[Dypsisdean]

Dean if you have time and money, people can do the same as machine. Think the pyramids were built with tractors Score! Two points.

Of course you are right Len. And if you have the time, you could even carve a Grand Canyon with just running water. Three Pointer.

But even with an army of Egyptian slaves, you couldn't turn a few acres of native forest on lava, with natural water courses, into flat pasture land in a weekend - before anyone could react. With a D-9, no problem. So in my area, after the max allowable 40% area is cleared and leveled, grubbing is no longer allowed.

[Moose]

I missed a possible answer Bo, will you use a chipper to make mulch, that may aid in weed control? (At least if thick enough, and some composting effect started)

Does anyone else here find it ironic that Bill (BS Man about Palms) is commenting about Bo's weed control program?

Ron.

[redant]

The onion house is a very unique example of bringing the outdoors in, really interesting home.

[bgl]

Fascinating design but probably a bit beyond my modest budget! I'm thinking "simple but still nice".

[Justin]

Bo, here's my two cents on home design, which I offer after looking at over a dozen houses (inside and out) just weeks ago. For the shape, I would suggest a relatively simple "box" structure, with a wrap-around lanai, similar to this:

I saw numerous houses that looked like this, some with 360 degree lanais, some without.

This box structure can be "souped up" by some decorative woodwork along the edges, maybe something like this (okay, maybe not quite this much):

For the inside, I would suggest more dark wood, except for the floor, in which case I would suggest "wood-looking" porcelain tile:

And for the driveway, I have to say that I really liked the curving driveways, where the house wasn't visible from the street. I'd suggest one that circles around right near the house (so that trucks can get in and out easily), and in the middle of the circle you can put in a formal palm creation, something like this (only better):

Then, when you get bored of this place in 10-15 years, you can sell to me.

[bgl]

Justin,

Thanks a lot for your great ideas! I agree, a simple box structure is appealing in its simplcity. I like houses with wrap around lanais. Very attractive. Except for one very important detail. By design (and out of cost concerns) those wrap around lanais are always fairly narrow. I prefer a larger area, say 16 x 20 ft lanai that provides for more space for tables and chairs. If you were to change that to, say, 8 x 40 ft you end up with the same square footage but the space can't be utilized in the same way. And the driveway, oh yes, definitely a long winding driveway. Very appealing! I dislike straight lines and there won't be too many (if any) straight lines here. And what happens in 10-15 years - who knows!

Bo-Göran

[www.dadluvsu.com]

he invited me to visit him and see the design. Sounds intriguing. So I intend to drive up there in the near future. It's about a 1 hr 45 min drive from here. I may take some photos.

Please do, I have dreams about my build and would love to see.

[WestCoastGal]

Bo, you are going to have one beautiful property when you are all done. I'm enjoying visiting your thread to see it progress.

It's been a number of years since we were on the Big Island and visited the VNP area. Stayed up in Volcano when we were there. I just love the lush, wet side of the island. We spent some time up around Hilo too and the Hawaii Tropical Botanical Garden was a favorite stop. How much rain do you get where you are at? BTW I'm curious about the VOG. I assume you guys are all upwind of it or is that sometimes a problem. Don't recall if you mentioned it or not but do you have any lava rocks/flow on your lot? I could see trying to incorporate some of that in the landscape plan if so.

Kind of off topic here, but I love the look of the palms in Justin's 3rd photo above. Could someone tell me what they are?

[LJG]

Dean if you have time and money, people can do the same as machine. Think the pyramids were built with tractors Score! Two points.

Of course you are right Len. And if you have the time, you could even carve a Grand Canyon with just running water. Three Pointer.

But even with an army of Egyptian slaves, you couldn't turn a few acres of native forest on lava, with natural water courses, into flat pasture land in a weekend - before anyone could react. With a D-9, no problem. So in my area, after the max allowable 40% area is cleared and leveled, grubbing is no longer allowed.

Yes, there is the biggie. "In a weekend" before the city/states officials show up.

I think if I were buying I would prefer to buy where Bo is. I saw firsthand the trouble you go through to clear your jungle. You have done a great job, but it does take time.

[bgl]

Bill, I'll definitely keep that in mind. Have every intention of driving up there soon to see him.

WestCoastGal, first of all, a belated "Welcome to PalmTalk"! We get about 140 inches of rain in an average year. Typically around 10 inches/month during the summer and about 14/month during the wetter winter months. There's no active flow here and it's estimated that the most recent flow in Leilani Estates probably happened in the mid to late 1700s. Plenty of rocks here and they are of course all "lava rocks" since the entire island is made up of "lava rock". We do experience vog every now and then, especially during the winter months when the trade winds sometimes abandon us and we get southerly winds. I don't have any exact number but my guess would be that out of all the days in a typical year, we probably have vog only about 5% of the time. The rest of the time it heads out in the opposite direction, towards South Point and (unfortunately) the Kona side. And those palms in Justin's photo are Coryphas. Looks like the photo is taken in Nong Nooch Botanical Garden in Thailand (the location for our next Biennial, in September 2012), and if so, they are probably Corypha lecomtei. Justin may be able to confirm.

And Len, if you ever consider buying here, you need to visit again (sorry I missed you on your recent visit) and look around. Exploring and partly clearing land here is a real eye opener and a an absolutely unique experience.

Bo-Göran

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Bo, here's my two cents on home design, which I offer after looking at over a dozen houses (inside and out) just weeks ago. For the shape, I would suggest a relatively simple "box" structure, with a wrap-around lanai, similar to this:

I saw numerous houses that looked like this, some with 360 degree lanais, some without.

This box structure can be "souped up" by some decorative woodwork along the edges, maybe something like this (okay, maybe not quite this much):

For the inside, I would suggest more dark wood, except for the floor, in which case I would suggest "wood-looking" porcelain tile:

And for the driveway, I have to say that I really liked the curving driveways, where the house wasn't visible from the street. I'd suggest one that circles around right near the house (so that trucks can get in and out easily), and in the middle of the circle you can put in a formal palm creation, something like this (only better):

Then, when you get bored of this place in 10-15 years, you can sell to me.

Bo,

I have given a great deal of thought to my "Dreamtime Tropical Home" and if you look at the Bali/Thai style house in Justin's post you will get a good idea of its shape. It would have a long, narrow living area for kitchen, dining, living and family rooms. On the sides would be the bedrooms, one on each long side. At one end of the living area would be a porta cochere (like in the photo) for guests visiting when it is raining. At the other end of the living area would be a large deck or lanai. The roof would be high like the pic but not as ornate. Probably a loft type bedroom upstairs. You need a good roof overhang for shade and the wrap around lanai would be optional. The whole building foot print would be in a cross or lower case "t" configuration so that every room has two or three exterior sides for good ventilation and if you site it at a little angle with the tradewinds in mind, a breeze would flow through every room.

[bgl]

Jerry,

That's a VERY interesting design. Need to think about that for a while! Thanks a lot! As it happens, after taking yesterday off, Kyle was on the site for three hours today and worked on the housepad and was pretty much done after those three hours. I won't be posting too many more bulldozer photos. I have probably posted enough of those to last for a while! (Bill - BS Man, if you want more I can always email them to you! ). Anyway, just three photos today:

1 - This should really be the last photo. After three hours - housepad done!

2 - this photo gives a VERY good idea of terrain and vegetation here. Strawberry guava on the left. Ohi'a (Metrosideros polymorpha) behind the D-8 and an Archontophoenix alexandrae is about to get run over!

3 - Watching Kyle pile up the debris is fascinating. And sometimes scary! The next challenge - how to landscape this pile of debris!

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I was amazed to see how big the strawberry guava gets there on the big island. More than twice the size they grow in Florida. Bo, you are going to have a continuing problem with the leftover Ohia that are now exposed on the edge of the tree line or out in the open. They used to have the protection of the other trees but now they will suffer from blow downs and limb breakage. The dozer had to disturb a good bit of their roots also. Keep it in mind for your landscape design as your tree line might shift a bit as the front ones break or come down.

Are you going to landscape the debris pile or remove it?

The house as I would design it would lend itself to construction in stages. You could build the living area first, then later a bedroom and then the other.

[bgl]

No, I don't expect much of a problem with the ohi'a trees. I have lots of experience with this scenario over the past 15 years. Ohi'a trees can certainly take full exposure without any problems. The only real problem, as you mention, is losing trees because of root disturbance and that is definitely a very real concern. We tried to stay 10-15 ft away from the ohi'as but in some cases that just wasn't possible. In the center photo above, it's a bit misleading because most of those ohi'a trees are actually already either dead or in the process of dying. By tomorrow at noon they will be gone!

Removing the debris pile is NOT an option! It will gradually decompose (unlikely as that may seem at this point), and I WILL landscape it. And chainsaw off the larger logs that are sticking out. Five years from now it will look VERY different.

[RainForestt Robert]

Bo, I've been reading this thread often with a great deal of fascination. I'm sorry that you have to leave LPG behind but I am sure that you are excited by the opportunities to improve your garden with lessons learned. As I read I could not help but recall the copy of Rudyard Kipling's "If", which my Dad typed on his old typewriter and mailed to me while at University. It is the only letter he ever sent me and it remains one of my most precious possessions.

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;

If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with triumph and disaster

And treat those two imposters just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breath a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

Of course from the looks of things your aren't building again with worn out tools! You are inspiration. I hope to make it to the Big Island someday to check out the digs in person.

Robert

[bgl]

Robert,

Thank you so very much! That is incredibly powerful and inspiring! And I certainly hope you'll be able to visit the Big Island soon!

Again, thank you and Aloha!

Bo-Göran

[Lowey]

Good luck with your new project Bo, lots of work ahead of you I am sure, but as long as you are enjoying it, more power to you

Dare I ask, what is happening to the existing Lundkvist Palm Garden?

[amazondk]

Bo,

Speaking of house projectsI have one for my country place that is still more in my mind than anything else. I do have a lot of lumber now. I took apart a wood cargo loading dock I had and now have about 2 truck loads hardwood lumber. Most of it is in 2 in, x 8 in. x aprox 14 feet long planks. And, I have a lot bunch of 4 x 8 pieces of about the same length. By resawing the pieces I will have lot of material to work with. So, I am going to make the house as Jerry suggests in modules as that is about the best I will be able to afford. Anyway I have decided to make the house 2 stories, the view is too good not to. And, use a lot of tempered glass. The use of tempered plate glass has become real popular here as it gives a relatively good protection against break ins and looks great. Not that you can´t break it, it is just difficult. And, since houses here are made for air flow and openess and the use of screens on windows is mostly non existant, becuase we really do not have much of an insect problem on the Negro River, I plan on using a lot of big windows and sliding glass doors to open the house up. Instead of having a wrap around varanda I plan on putting a decent sized one off the front of the house on the second story looking over the river and the mauritia grove. I do love to daydream about tropical houses anyway. And, you do have different elements at work there than we do here as well. Since people are bringing up house designs here are a few from down south in Brazil using a lot of wood. I love hardwood.

That is an overall great project you have going. Attached are a few houses with wood and open covered areas from down south in Brazil.

[bgl]

Bruce, thank you, and yes, I am enjoying it. "Work" is an alien concept to me! And nothing is "happening" to the existing Lundkvist Palm Garden. It stays intact and Karolyn ("KPL") resides there.

Don, thanks for your input. I love hardwood as well, and I'm sure that with your knowledge and experience in the field you will know exactly how to design and build your house!

Bo-Göran

[tinman10101]

Bo

I've been watching as your new garden manifest from the sidelines. It must be so exciting to start anew and with your extended experience in growing palms, you can pretty much visualize where to plant the palms and how your garden will look exactly in five years!!! It is great to know that there will be two amazing LPG's on Hilo now. Please continue to keep us updated.

Cheers!

Tin

[bgl]

Tin,

Thanks a lot! And I may not know EXACTLY how it's going to look in five years but at some point within the next year I will have a general idea. Right now I'm still in the "exploration mode". Kyle has taken a day off here and there so what I thought would be a three day operation with the D-8 is turning into a two week project. Which is fine. What I am finding out is that there is a whole lot more elevation change than I had thought. And that really adds lots of interest. I'm not going to post too many photos of the D-8 because you've probably seen enough, but here are two photos that really show what the vegetation is like and why it's so difficult to visualize the contours of the land. Kyle put in three hours today and a few more hours later this week and he'll be done. And then I can start planting palms! But that will be covered in a new thread.

Incidentally, and I will announce this later in the Share-a-Site sub-forum, the present website for the original Lundkvist Palm Garden, will remain. In order to differentiate between the two gardens it will be known as LPG Malama. Malama is the street name. And the new garden will be LPG Pomaikai. Again, Pomaikai is the name of the street where it's located. I will update the progress on the LPG Pomaikai garden in a blog that Annika has created, and it's already up and running (but not much there yet, and of course, no palm photos).

Bo-Göran